A Tiny Homestead

Cole Canyon Farm - The Impact of Having A Coach

Today I'm talking with Morgan at Cole Canyon Farm. Learn about how having a coach can change your perspective.
 
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00:00You're listening to a tiny homestead. The podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters.  I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Morgan at Cole Canyon farm in Montana  for like the fifth time, I think. Good morning, Morgan. How are you? Good morning. Good morning. Yeah.  What a journey this has been um from Groovy Grazers to Cole Canyon farm to more surprises. feel like
00:26We have so many pivots you've had to cover, so I can understand why we've been  on quite a bit.  Well, you're also really listenable and you're really fun and I like you so much, so you make it a joy to talk with you. ah Morgan has been,  I don't know how to say it, she found herself a coach. Yeah. And I wanted to talk with Morgan about how that is changing things for her because  I feel like coaches give us perspective.
00:53That we need that our friends give us so tell me about how that's going Yeah, so we talked a little bit about the last episode. I was like alright. I just did this crazy thing I signed up for a coach, I've never signed up for a coach. I've actually never spent I Would say probably more than two three hundred dollars on continued education for myself, and this is thousands of dollars But it's really important that you invest in yourself just as much as much as you invest in your property right so
01:23um I do some silver and gold stuff with a friend  and her name is Diane Graber. She has a homesteading thing that she just launched. So I'm going to have you talk to her about Mary because her and her husband have been doing this for well over a decade. Like,  yeah. So  she's coming out into her homesteading area as I was coming into my set, you know, my,  golden silver era. Like I was just learning about it. Right.  And she.
01:52came into my life about a year ago and she was helping coach me and that was really great, but I just had a lot going on. We covered a lot of what was going on in 2025, know, just lots of pivots changes. And she asked me about, I don't know, two weeks before the class, she was like, hey, jump onto this class, just say yes. It'll change your, change your whole world. I've worked with this woman before in previous adventures that we've done.
02:21And she's a great person I just reconnected with her after 15 years. So was like, all right, cool. Like I'm, I love meeting people. That's how Mary and I met. If people don't know, she just messaged me on Facebook. Like I love talking to people. So it was one of those things where I was like, fine, I'll jump on. I don't have a problem. It's free, right? Like for me, income  is lower in the winter time. It's kind of a squeeze here in Montana.  And
02:49So being free was great. It was something I could commit to.  I got on  and a coach is a vibe. Let me tell you, like you  will not vibe with every coach. You will not like what some coaches say. You will think that it doesn't fit your niche, whatever, be it right. Like coaches are, they attract their vibrational group is what I'm gonna say. Like, sorry. uh
03:18the wind's bad here, you're going to attract the people that need to be around you. So somehow I landed up, landed in this class and I was listening to it and it was about being a millionaire. And I was like, well, don't, I'm not just try, I don't strive to be a millionaire. And it's not that I think that it's unhumble to be a millionaire. It's just like, for me, 250 K a year would be life-changing enough, let alone 500 K in a year, you know, so.
03:46For me, was like, all right, I may not vibe with as much the millionaire side of this, but  I can get through the whole breakthrough concept of it. So I think there's a lot of like shame around having coaches or being open about having coaches. But there's a reason why in corporate America there's bosses and those bosses have supervisors and supervisors have supervisors. It's a checks and balance because like you were saying, Mary, it's a perspective.
04:16So I got on, Melanie talked, it was two days. I really liked what she said. I had some really big breakthroughs about throwing spaghetti on the wall. I've said that here on this show before. If you've heard me talk on here before, I've talked about how we love throwing spaghetti at walls. We don't  anymore. And all  throwing spaghetti at the wall does is it either gets butter on the wall or it gets spaghetti sauce on the wall and it makes a mess. Correct. Yeah. So like...
04:43In the past, was like, I'm just, and I was real honest about it. Like I didn't try and tell anyone we had every, you know, my ducks were not in a pond and we all knew that they were like in everyone's property. Um,  and so  Melanie was like, girlfriend, like you got a lot of potential. You got to lead with your feminine side.  I  grew up  in a home with a first generation American as a mother from Iraq.  And my dad is a Marine.
05:13So  there was no sugarcoating involved in my household. And so I speak sometimes from the masculine side of life. And sometimes people don't vibrate with that. And she's not saying that you have to be, know, whatever weird version we think women and men should be. It's just to say, you know, she was just saying like, you got a lot to say, use a softer voice, you know, like use my good storytelling voice and I'll capture a lot of people. And like you said earlier,  I have fun talking on these podcasts as much as I do.
05:42um hearing what people think about my storytelling. My son loves when I tell stories. So, you know, it just naturally makes sense that this would be a calling for me. And, you know, she was like, just kind of pull yourself back in. And had I not done this coaching, to be honest with you, I wouldn't have written my mini gardening guide already. I wouldn't have completed also my full gardening course that I'll be selling this year.
06:12I wouldn't be getting set up for a website so then I could actually get help because I was paying for Wix and I was paying for the $50 a month program.  And that was great, but I had to do all the work. spent,  Mary, I spent like four or five hours a night, some nights, for weeks on end trying to get Wix to operate the way I wanted it to.  And it's still not operating correctly for Groovy Grazers.
06:39Yeah, I'm working on the one for the other podcast right now, the Grit and Grace and the Heartland  Agriculture podcast.  And I'm trying to get the social media buttons to work on the theme that I chose and it's not working. I'm probably going to have to look at a different theme. I do it through WordPress.  once you get your website built the way you want it to be, it's plug and play. It's easy. You just update it. But getting them built is a pain in the butt.
07:08Yeah, which by the way, I'm just gonna blurb in if any of the listeners on this show have not listened to the new one. You gotta go. You should be like running to your search button right now getting that in. Hopefully Mary will link the link below for it. like, yes, you should. Absolutely. Because  I yeah, my son even listened to it with me. Like he was like, Mom, this is great. And like he loves the fact that 2026 is the year of women's agriculture, like
07:37you know, especially being first generation farmers. that, that was something that you also had completed. So you can understand we're kind of in the same process of like getting something up and going and people don't realize how many hours you put behind this. So all it took, and you're going to be just floored. It took Melanie a 30 minute session with me. That was it.  That's all it takes. Like,
08:05you don't have to pay for hours and hours and hours of coaching. I'm taking a course that is self-paced and there's like, you know, twice a month Zooms  where we can all meet together. You can watch a replay and I jump on the Zooms because I think it's really important to be present and plugged into what I'm doing, especially if I'm spending a few thousand dollars on it, that it's got to be priority at that point. Or then I feel like I wasted, you know, my own money and
08:33that came included with it. to,  I am going to get more like one-on-one sessions with her because it was very minimal information that I gave Melanie, cause this is just like an introductory one-on-one, but she told me that  my whole goal has been  since doing  Groovy Grazers was to teach because I find that that's my passion.
09:02and what I love to do the most.  being able to teach, but just not in my area, but all over and then creating a community, I've have probably been on the soapbox more times than I can count about community being so important and what we do. And so being able to create that was really kind of seamless for me after she explained that I needed to get a Facebook group going, which I did, Built From Dirt Facebook group.
09:29We have over 400 members and as Melanie said on the master class a few days ago, like we have active members and it's because I'm not just blasting people with just like, I'm not just trying to sell them something. Like I want to build a community and that is my honest mission in doing built from dirt farm school is having a place that we can all bounce.
09:54bounce off of each other, but then also help elevate each other's businesses because most people that are in the ag industry, like as we all know, you can't have every single type of livestock and excel in any of them. You've got to really kind of hone in on one. So most ag businesses were all kind of like just a few small streamlines that kind of play together income. So, I mean, I've, I,
10:21personally also changed a huge mindset of like and I'm not biblical or uh Religious in  any sort of normal sense. I'll just say it that way, right? like I just kind of believe what I believe and My mother just came from Texas who  is from like the Bible Belt, right? And she is a I will love you so much as my neighbor type like I just absolutely adore my mom and her views and
10:50She told me, and I can't remember what scripture it is, but there's a scripture about like what you say you create. And that theme kept coming up. First, it started with my mom saying it. Then Melanie brought up exactly the same thing. And that was during that masterclass. And then one of my good friends, Harley, she said the same thing too, right? Because I'm sure you saw Mary, but  for the listeners, Bambi is having to be put to sleep. And I'm sorry if I get emotional. No, it's okay.
11:21Our Philly is lame beyond being, man, I'm sorry. I was hoping I wasn't gonna cry. No, it's okay, honest, it's okay, because I do it all the time, Morgan. I don't think I'm gonna cry, and then I'm like, oh no, here we go again. Yeah, Bambi has some issues, and you can't fix her, and I'm sorry. Yeah, and it's okay, and that was our $100 gamble, right? But to
11:48To tie it into what I'm talking about, about what you create, we're sitting there and we had just posted the really heavy news. And this was after I had signed up for  my coaching with Melanie Greeninoff  and a thousand dollars later, the vet was essentially like Tyria Heid also.  And we're like, there's nothing we can do.
12:11the hawk injury she sustained, like there's nothing we can do with that, even if we did surgery on the left leg, which it was up to $3,000. And we were considering it like Bambi, Bambi is a one of a kind horse.  And so  we get inside, I sit down and I'm like, everyone's going to start texting me because everyone knew that this was this big appointment. I just sometimes I'll just post on Facebook because it's easier to update the masses, right? Sure.
12:39I get a message from ah Hannah. She's another farmer out here and she's someone you'll have to talk to too.  They raise cattle dogs, but she had given us Pearl and she said, hey, I got a filly here for you.  She's papered and she had a tendon surgery, but she's going to track sound. Montana equine did it. I said, oh yeah, she's super cute. I didn't understand Mary that she meant free. Oh, okay.
13:07Yeah, so right like kind of like you you're like, oh that's cool. Like someone's offering you a horse right away. What a not good time, you know, and and I I don't know hannah very well actually i've I met her through getting the dog but um, she had uh Someone in her family passed away and so she's been dealing with that since i'm like bought since I went and got pearl our little uh, cauli dog, right? So hannah's like yeah, she you know explaining me
13:37Yeah. Yeah. oh
14:07So right, like I'm telling you this emotional story because these are all the things that led up to like where I am today and man has it been a rocky 30 days. But when Harley said that I had to remember that like  I always said that even if Bambi couldn't be pasture or  riding sound if she could be broodmare sound. And then when broodmare sound was really not looking great I was like if you can just be pasture pet sound right.
14:34And then she wasn't past her pet sound, but I said, I told my husband, said, it's okay. I know it's really hard. We'll save up some money. Cause it's really expensive to get horses like that are paper. Oh Oh yeah, it is. Yeah. So I was like, it's okay. We, we took this hundred dollar gamble. We failed out on it. Well, I wouldn't say we failed out because literally the vet Dr. Campbell was like, you have some of the nicest babies I've gotten to handle with. Like
15:00thanked me for how pleasurable my weanlings were to deal with, which is so cool because this is our first time having babies, right? So I  have taken so much pride and I do take a lot of pride in the way my animals are up kept, their behavior, their mannerisms. And so it felt really good for her to say that, but  she told me she was like, definitely let this one pass, but I mean, know that you...
15:26that you've done a great job, this is nothing you did wrong, right? So I told my husband, I was like, the next one will be papered. She'll  be papered  because Betty is papered, my other mayor is papered. I mean, papers don't mean everything, but if we're trying to run a good program, like what is probably in the works right now with our friend Harley, then we need good mayors. So I sent Harley the paperwork on this mayor and she's like, yeah, absolutely.
15:56Yeah, yes, that's really cool. And she's like, wow, like that is a nice mare. And it was all because Hannah said, um
16:06you guys will do right by this mayor essentially. Like,  we're not going to overwork a horse, we're going to do right by them. But like in  another sense, like the vet being impressed, right? So, but I started speaking that into existence right away. Like as soon as we got the news before Hannah had messaged me, like we're going to have a papered horse. We're going to, we're going to recover from this. It's going to be okay. Maybe it wasn't great that we had three.
16:35Three under three, right? But I had it horse style. I was like, it'll all be okay. And then we get the message from Hannah. So speaking  positively and speaking  the outcome you want is so, so important. And I think that's something that I've probably really failed at in the last few years of my life.  And it's  something that I had to come to terms with was sitting there and being like, man.
17:05I have spoke like the most absolute negativity through this lawsuit over the land. I've spoken the worst about not being able to afford a house, which by the way,  we're getting pre-qualified because we are actually moving.  know, but that changed too. Yeah, it's a big change. don't want to, I'll be honest, Mary, with you, I can stay on this 20 acres and I can live around all these people that absolutely do not want me to farm.
17:33And they're going to listen to this episode because that's on track with what they do to see what we're doing next. Or I can just say, I'm going to go farm somewhere else where there's water. Yep. Yep. I'm going to in just for a minute. There's a saying about when one door open or closes another or a window opens or something like that. I think that the Bambi situation is that.
18:00And I listened to the free masterclass that Melanie, your coach had put on this week.  I missed the first hour because I had other things that had going on. But I listened to the second part yesterday and  she's big on the things that we worry about. We invite into our lives. Yes. And the one thing that I really got out of the 45 minutes I listened yesterday was that because I was like,  you know, I used to know that.
18:29I used to be like, I'm not going to think negatively. No, I'm not going to worry about not having enough money. I'm going to manifest money. I'm going to think it's going to be okay. The money will come or whatever it was that I needed. And in the last couple of years, things have been rough and I have not been thinking positively. And when I got done listening to her, her second half of her webinar that she did,
18:58I was like, oh, that was the thing I was supposed to take away from it. And I woke up at three o'clock this morning thinking, okay,  I have to get that website thing figured out and I'm going to make it work.  And  Morgan's going to talk to me today. That's exciting. And I didn't wake up worrying. I woke up excited. Yeah. It's different when you do that. Like even with Bambi and like, I don't think that there's such thing as like test, but I think that that was.
19:26whatever you believe in's way of showing me that like, no, actually your mindset did change because like, instead of being down and feeling like I completely let down this Philly, which I didn't, I went above and beyond anything that I could do for her. ah I was like, it's okay, life's okay. Even if, you know, we  end up not getting this free Philly, like that, that still wouldn't make me go back into a negative mindset because that's...
19:56It is what it is. It was a gamble, right? And I think that in this day and age, we're  all... Like news used to cycle, Andy and I were talking about this,  news used to cycle like a week, right? Like they would be replaying the same stuff. I remember when I was little and I like swear that I called this an existence sometimes. I'd be like, why isn't there anything new on the news? Why hasn't anything new happened? It's not like that anymore.
20:26That it cycles out between 12 hours, a whole new string of stories every day.  Yeah. And it's getting really exhausting. I have had to actually turn the news off lately unless I see something really important come through on my phone, AP app.  I'm like, no, I can't, I can't listen to this anymore because it's all  negative. Yeah. See? So like that's exactly what I was getting to. So we're just  all.
20:57Trying to escape the negativeness in life so we think something shiny and new or great needs to happen every single day because everyone makes things look like an Instagram story and like that is the last of the dreams that I could ever show like is a false Morgan like I
21:17If you ask people about me, they'll tell you like, I just am who I am. Like, you never have to guess. I'm just going to say the things that might upset you, but I'm the same person in every room. And that's something that I'm really big about. So I try to share even on my Facebook, the good and the bad, because if everything you see is just positive all the time, and it's fake positivity, like you can tell. You're like, there's no way that there's something new.
21:44and great happening every single day in somebody's life. But if you can take from the fact that I can create a good mood every day, and that'll lead to the next big positive thing in my life, then that's, I mean, that's really ideally it. Like, yes, you should wake up and feel like a million bucks. Yes, you should wake up and think you're gonna get a lot done that day. Because if you don't, if you only get two things done, that's a lot.
22:12Right? Like that's still two more things that you've completed in a day instead of being like, man, I wrote a list for 15 things, but I only did two. So now I'm going to get down on myself. So as a woman in agriculture, taking a coaching with a woman that who does have a background  in  farming, her family comes from farming. we like vibed on the first webinar because I was talking about sheep farming and, and Melanie, what I like about her is it's
22:41It's not just network marketing. It's not MLM stuff. She's actually teaching you how to  be the best that you can with offerings. like she, that's what that 30 minute was about was to figure out what offerings I could offer to help bring an income to offset while the sheep herd is growing. Cause eventually the sheep herd will kind of take care of itself. But it was how do we get from point A to point B  on limited income?
23:11And I can write my own courses. I've done that kind of stuff before. I've written my own Zooms, my own webinars, you know, on my own research and then the love for teaching that we have. um Now, Groovy Grazers, is it like dead? No. I mean,  I'm going to find an employee this year. So,  I mean, as much as I hate to tell all of my reoccurring  clients, it may not be me this year coming in, but it's going to be somebody that I've trained.
23:41you know, then I can still keep that portion alive. But being away from the farm is hard. And it even though it was bringing in money, it was  as hard as having a nine to five job. Yeah, it's not harder. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, because I'm tired after that, because I have health conditions, you know,  and I want to spend all my time farming. But one thing I've really like, slacked on is gardening. Andy uh
24:09My husband is an expert in organic living soil. So if anyone has questions about this regenerative farming word that's going on, you know, how to no till and all that stuff, we, that is something we specialize in and that is really our passion. So  Andy just has a lot of knowledge. He's just a hermit. So he's always been called a hermit. He's just kind of more in the background.
24:34When it comes to teaching but Melanie was like you need to get your husband out there like you and you guys doing it as a wife and husband duo is like That's so cool. Normally. It's like just the husband wants to do one portion of it The wife wants to do another or like they don't want to do it together And I'm like, well, I personally couldn't imagine farming with anyone other than my husband So  it makes sense that we going on go in on the farm school together, but also knowing that
25:04You can offer like there's something like Mary, I'm sure there's something you could probably talk about doing podcasts, right? Yeah. And help other people that are doing podcasts and just give them a formula essentially of what you've done. That's something you could offer. You know, um, the next farmer down the road, well, maybe they offer chicken eggs and that's the only thing they offer. Right. Melanie would be able to tell you how to do that  or how to at least assess it to make sure it's, it's profitable or not. And so.
25:35That's something  that I think coming from a third party is a little easier.  dreams sometimes, I don't know if you dream big, I dream for the moon sometimes. I used to until I got really negative with the lawsuit stuff and I felt like that was never ending because we're like year four into that and it's still going, you know, like still  actively not even hit the first courtroom.
26:00You're talking another three more years. That's seven years by the end of this. That's why we've decided to move because I'm not doing that at all. And I want water. We were already looking at a property that's 40 acres, by the way, with a well  and flood,  38 acres of flooded pasture, all within my budget.  So  good things happen, right? I spoke that into existence. I want, I'm going to find a house that's going to fit all these and we're going to get pre-approved for it. And so.
26:27That's one of the biggest things for me is creating though a positive mindset that you can have like in a space you can't. woke up this morning at 3 a.m. You knew that we were going to talk and I was going to light a fire underneath you. Well, you usually do somehow, yes. Yeah, which is that's I mean,  we were destined by the universe to light a fire under each other. So I love it. That's why love coming and talking to you. uh
26:54So you knew you were gonna do that. You knew that either you're gonna have to get these buttons to work or just change your theme.  Not once did you say, man, if I have to change my theme, I'm really gonna be disappointed. You just said, well, that may be what I have to do. Oh yeah, I honestly don't care what the theme is as long as the background that I'm working with does the thing I need it to do. Yeah, but you didn't even go down  that mindset. Do you know how many people would have like,
27:21snowballed all the way into the worst computer program ever and they can't do this. Oh, yeah, that was me about 15 years ago when I first started screwing around with websites. I was like, oh, this is such a learning curve. Holy cow. But all learning curves are hard. And that actually leads me right back around to what I was going to say, because we're running out of time here. We're at 27 minutes already. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It flies. You don't have to...
27:51Morgan loves Melanie as a coach and that is fabulous. I'm really glad that you found somebody that you vibe with. But there are coaches for everything.  Every coach is different. Some of them are very soft and very sweet and they still get the point across.  Some are very harsh and very direct and they get the point across. So you have to figure out what works for your style  with their style. uh
28:18Some coaches are really expensive. Some coaches are not really expensive and you've got to figure out how to handle that too. Yep.  Yeah. So, um, I love that you went and listened to the new podcast and I want to talk about that just for a minute.  Um,  the new episode comes out on Monday and it's actually about how the immigration situation in the United States right now is impacting agriculture and women in agriculture. Yup.
28:48I just, we were going to talk about it  shortly after that lady got shot here in Minneapolis by the ICE agent.  Yeah. And I couldn't talk about it without crying. And  Leo was like, let's wait a week. And  I really needed to talk with my dad about it because he's like my anchor when I'm spinning. Yeah. And talked to my dad about it. And  he said,  I don't want to make things harder, he said, but it's going to get worse before it gets better. Yep.
29:18And once he said that, I took a big deep breath and I was like, okay.  And then I started looking into how important people from other countries are to agriculture because they come here to work and they work hard and they're good people. And they're sending a lot of the income home to their families to support their families. They're no different than you and I.
29:41Exactly.  so Leah and I talked about that and so that one will be out on Monday and then the next Monday,  I think  the episode is about 4-H because  Leah has been involved in 4-H since before she was born, she says, because her parents were involved in it.  I love that. No, that's going to be a good episode. So I will definitely be tuning in and I'll share that also on Cole Canyon Farm because that'll be a good episode. That would be fabulous. Thank you.
30:09The new podcast is called  Rit and Grace in the Heartland, Women in Agriculture. uh tomorrow we're interviewing the head editor, chief editor, whatever,  of the Old Farmers Almanac, Carol, I can't think of her last name.  Carol, I interviewed her on A Tiny Homestead, but we're going to have her come and talk to us on the other podcast too, because she is,  she is absolutely a woman in agriculture and she is
30:39deciding factor in what gets published in the Old Farmer's Almanac. Wow, that's really cool. It's gonna be so fun. I'm so excited.  So Morgan, I am so proud of you for investing in yourself and having to make all of these decisions from a place of positivity instead of negativity. That's amazing.  People can find you at Cole Canyon Farm on Facebook and are you, you said you're working on building a website or getting your website? Yeah.
31:08The website will be up and going we're coal Canyon MT  as in Montana.  Yep. As in Montana on Instagram. Okay. Awesome.  Thank you so much for sharing your experience with getting a coach because I'm not sure that  I think that people think that coaches are woo woo. Like, like only weird people get themselves a coach and that is not true. Yeah, no, I'm glad we got to talk about this because there is a big
31:37dark shadow around coaching. And honestly, it's just a third perspective and it can excel your business. So yeah. And in case it didn't come through and I'm afraid it didn't. Morgan is a coach. Yes. Yeah, I do coach. So if you need help with gardening or I don't know anything else that Morgan's doing and would like to teach about, you can contact her at her Facebook page and eventually the website and
32:06She will be more than happy to help you  get started on your next project. Yeah, absolutely. We're super excited. Thanks for having us on, Mary.  You are so welcome.
 

Frostbite Family Farm LLC

Today I'm talking with Addie at Frostbite Family Farm LLC.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Addie at Frostbite Family Farm, LLC in Lonsdale, Minnesota. Good morning, Addie, how are you? Good morning, I'm good, how are you?  I'm good. We're having some really gray weather this morning. We are. It's coming after a lot of sunshine though, so I can't complain.
00:25Yeah, we're supposed to get snow tonight and I'm kind of hoping we do because the cornfield is looking very bare right now and it looks kind of ugly. So fresh coat of snow would be nice. Yes, we have some livestock and it actually gets harder when things warm up and get a little wet. So the dry snow is always a good thing. Yeah, I was just talking to a dairy farmer. I don't if it was this week or last week, but they were saying that it had been
00:54like really muddy. And I of course assumed that the cows were out in the field and I said, I hear that wet weather is not good for cows feet.  And he said, oh no, he said, they're in the barn or they're on a dry lot and it's actually dry. He said, they're fine. He said, but yes, it can wreak havoc with their feet. And I was like, okay, cool.  Yeah, that is the difference between large dairies and small ones. So we operate a micro dairy.
01:21And all of our cows are out in the field. So they have a good space to roam around in, but mud definitely affects them. Yeah. And, okay, I don't want to get too far into dairy stuff because I've interviewed two people about dairies in the last two weeks. But when you say microdairy, how many cows? So right now we have 16 cows. That includes our calves. So we are milking 10 currently twice a day. Okay. And I'm assuming you're not milking 10 cows by hand a day.
01:50No, we use a surge bucket system. It works really well. My husband and I team up and do it together and it gets done pretty efficiently that way. It kind of keeps it cleaner than hand milking. Yeah. I think the days of hand milking have kind of flown. They've kind of gone away. Unless you just have one cow and you really like milking cows. Right. And even then I'm like, okay, you get a bunch of stuff that kind of flings into it and it's just, they make smaller systems now.
02:20It's really easy. Okay.  So  I want to know how your farm got its name, because I love the name. Sure. Yeah, that is  always a topic of interest. It's so funny.  We picked that name after we didn't start out farming.  My husband and I got married and lived in an apartment. And I've always had this love of plants and food and good cooking. And  as we had kids, it developed into  including health and
02:50um eating at home and making things ourselves.  And we sort of realized over time, like, I think we need to look for some land. I think we want to do some of this ourselves. And we began our land search, but at the same time realizing that neither of us had come from agricultural backgrounds. We decided to try to find people locally that were doing what we wanted to do or close  and  get to know them.
03:17and hear their processes.  And um apples were a big point of interest for me. I love apple trees and  just the amount of food they can supply is amazing.  So  we found an orchardist in Northern Minnesota who was organic for a really long time.  He has this amazing little orchard on acres and acres of planted trees, really well maintained. A lot of them are like the semi-dwarf stock  and we would go visit every year with our little kids.
03:46It was one of the only organic orchards that we had heard of locally.  It was about a two hour trip for us, so it was always a big event taking the kids.  And  as we had gone over a couple of years, we got to know the owner, and he is incredible  and would give us so much of his time walking around the orchard telling us all about his trees and the ones he was breeding and the different varieties he chose and why. I just...
04:11I felt like I could just consume that information all day and he was so gracious with his time and he would walk around and show us, this is the triumph apple. It's a new one I'm trialing. You know, taste it. This is what I like about it. This is what I don't like about it. ah And on one of our trips up there, I mean, he was showing us the inside of his buildings and where he would make cider and all of these things and ah he was like, hold on, you got to come with me to the back of the orchard. He's like, my favorite apples are planted back there.
04:41And as we took the trek back, he was telling us about the frostbite apple. And it was developed in Minnesota.  It's like a great, great grandparent of  Honeycrisp and some of the  original apples  that were planted here in Minnesota. It's this tiny little burgundy apple, and it kind of cracks on the top a lot. It's not really grown commercially because of that. It's not good for shipping. um But it's a dessert apple.
05:11and he was like, you have to try this. Come over to the tree, like, here's how you pick a really good one. And he just like watched us and you know that's the sign of like a really good, a really good food. He's just like waiting for us to enjoy it. And I remember biting into this apple and thinking I had never tasted anything like this. And you your mind starts thinking back to other ones you've eaten, like the gala apples and things like that, where they're like a little mealy, not a ton of flavor.
05:39maybe a little dry, and this apple, I mean, it tasted like brown sugar,  just molasses, it had these really complex flavors. uh And I remember just thinking, it crossing my mind that if somebody didn't care enough to plant these varieties that maybe don't ship so well, or maybe oh aren't great for grocery store, they're not perfect, uh I would never have gotten to experience this.
06:05And it is one of my favorite apples. we, every year we go up there, we get a little box of them and our kids, you know, we all fight over them and we share them with people and  just watch people's faces light up and they go, I've never tried an apple like this. I didn't know they could taste like this. em And so as we were thinking about our farm and what we wanted, what our mission was, what we wanted to do, em the frost by apple kind of came up in our mind. It's like, we want to be the people who cultivate varieties that maybe
06:35aren't the most popular but still deserve a place in the food landscape.  People should try these in their lifetime. We should not go our whole lives thinking apples are these boring standard  and not let little blemishes stop that.  we do a lot of different fruits and vegetables.
06:56This last year was our first year at farmers markets  and selling produce direct to consumer and a lot of our vegetables even. love to pick heirloom varieties, weird shapes, weird colors. When we started, all of our ideas rolling and what we wanted to do, this was kind of the theme. And I had a lot of people actually look at me and say, this is not gonna work. People are not going to want a black tomato. They're gonna look at it and say, ew, that's gross.
07:24We don't want to try that. Give us something, you know, the normal bushel boy tomato. Just stick with the normal varieties and then you'll be successful. And I just, like, you could not force me to grow a normal red tomato. And I've always been like that. I think the colors are so fun. We're losing varieties and people need to care about that. So yeah, just kind of come to that. I love that story. That is so beautiful.
07:53And I'll tell you a secret, my husband and I have been talking since oh, a few years after we got married about wanting to do the homesteading thing and we're doing it now. We've been married for over 20 years and we bought this place in 2020. the first thing that got planted here was apple trees because we had talked and talked and talked about our dream.
08:20for years and apple trees were like always at the top of the list. We wanted our own apple trees. So I get it, Addie, believe me. Yes. Yeah, they're so beautiful. They produce so much food.  It's an investment. It takes a lot of time. But we, the property we moved to  has two apple trees. They're a semi dwarf, so they're not super tiny, but they're not super large either.  And I am consistently baffled every year. Like we, my family,  have
08:48I married and I have four kids and we could not get through all of those apples if we tried. There are so many, they're abundant. You know, we end up finishing our pigs on apples and giving them to the cows and chickens and all of that and selling them and giving them to friends. And it's just amazing how much food  one tree can produce. It is insane. And I have another story about apple trees.  The lady that we got our dog from.
09:17She lives in Montgomery, Minnesota. Her name is Jean Bratz. I don't know if you're familiar. She has the  Minnesota farmer Facebook page.  Okay.  They raise small scale. They raise steers. They have many Australian shepherds that they breed and they sell the puppies and take incredibly good care of the puppies from when they're born until they go to their new homes because they have seven children.  Sure. So almost every puppy is assigned a kid basically.
09:47Oh, but  they have apple trees in their backyard,  like many apple trees. And we were over there in the spring one year and all the trees were blooming and all you could smell when you opened the car door and got out in their driveway was apple blossoms.  And she has the the Wolf River apple trees, the great big apples. Oh, sure.  And  I
10:13keep meaning to get hold of her. need to do it this year and ask her if there's any way that we could get  a cutting  of a branch so we can graft it onto one of our trees because I would love to have Wolf River apples as well. That's the thing. There are so many varieties and that is also just kind of what makes me sad about our whole food industry is we have reduced
10:37reduced plants to a handful of varieties that  ship well, store well, all of that. And you just don't know unless you look.  We planted 40 apple trees this last spring in our  backfield. And looking through the varieties, it was so important to me. Sure, we'll do a couple of the honeycrisp and things like that.  these incredible trees that have existed forever, that have stories to them, and that have been lovingly cultivated over
11:04centuries, we planted this black Oxford apple and it is almost entirely black on the outside. Inside looks like a standard apple. The flavor profile is very similar to a honey crisp.  But again, like we would not know that these varieties exist unless someone cared enough to continue to cultivate them. So I think that's so important. Get the cuttings, graft it, plant it. You know, there's a lot of work before you ever see the fruit.
11:33You know, what do they say?  The best time to plant an apple tree is 20 years ago and the second best time is today. I've always heard it the best time to plant a tree is a hundred years ago. Oh, sure.  I guess  the more modern varieties if we're grafting under rootstock don't typically last as long. some of those other ones, they're incredible and they do last, you know, a hundred years.  Yep.
11:59I don't know why we were so fixated on apple trees, except that my husband and I really love applecrest in the fall. And we were like, if we had an apple tree, we'd be making applecrest by now  instead of having you buy apples at the local orchard.  But we planted  honey gold. We planted a regent. We planted a harrelson. then my husband went to Fleet Farm for something and he came home with
12:29some other apple trees.  And I was like, where  are we putting those? And he said on the other side of the property. And I said, okay.  And  I was talking,  I was writing a piece for Homestead Living Magazine that got bumped because of their holiday gift section. I'm so sad. uh when I sent her the draft, when I sent the editor the draft, she said, you guys have a small orchard. And I had to look it up.
12:57If you have more than six apple trees, you have a small orchard. And I was so excited that we are technically the owners of a small orchard because we have like 20 trees. Yes, I love that. That's awesome. Yup. I didn't know we had a small orchard, but we do.  So that was, that was pretty awesome.  Um,  I would love it if you could give me a rundown of the, the farm things that you have going on. So you have apple trees, you have some.
13:26you have dairy cows. What other projects do you have going on? Sure. So something that was important to us was uh just the cyclical nature of farm life and how, you know, when we monocrop one thing, kind of, you you end up having to outsource things where if you have a bunch of little endeavors, they can all sort of feed off of each other. So we started with  one dairy cow  and her calf  and have quickly expanded from there.
13:54um We came here really wanting to do market vegetables. So right now we have about 10,000 square feet of growing space out in our field  and we  applied for an Equip High Tunnel grant and ended up  being awarded the grant and we built a 100 foot by 30 foot high tunnel. So we are currently getting set up to start planting in there for the spring already.  We do  some poultry.
14:23We were surrounded by a lot of woods so we don't free-range our poultry, but we do them in tractors behind the cows in our field through the summer and then they're in a stationary coop in the winter. And then this last year we added  meat chickens  and  feeder pigs. So we ended up doing four feeder pigs. We have a lot of woods again with a lot of oak trees em and acorns and  we ended up building a big paddock in the woods and
14:51putting the pigs in there and it was awesome. we're, we do some cut flowers too. What kind of cut flowers? I love flowers. Yeah, we do. I'm trying to think how many beds we have right now. I think it's 30 to 40 beds that we do have cut flowers and we sort of do some of everything. We've got some perennials in there. I planted yarrow and what are my other perennials I have in there? Some echinacea.
15:19Things that self-seed too, we grow lot of chamomile and calendula. And then we've got the kind of typical  zinnias.  And this year we're doing lyseanthus and ranunculus,  dahlias, bachelor buttons, cosmos. I just placed my seed order, so it's all kind of fresh on my mind right now. m Those pro-cut sunflowers, those are a really good one. And then a lot of just like greenery, filler, we do some basil.
15:49What else? Eucalyptus. Things like that. Yeah, this was our first year, this last year selling market bouquets and it was super fun. Awesome. We grow peonies because they're my favorite.  And this year we'll probably have enough to actually sell quite a few if people want to buy them. That's awesome. Yeah, because it takes three years for peonies from when you get the roots and put them in the ground until they start to produce flowers.  Really. Yeah.
16:17So it's the first year is creep the second year. No first year is sleep. Second year is creep.  Third year is leap and my peonies leaped this past spring. I had so many blooms. I was in heaven.  Oh, that's amazing.  We grow sunflowers.  think we'd.  I can't remember the name of it. It's a little yellow flower. It looks like a daisy and I thought it was rununculus, but it's not. I'm almost positive it's not.
16:45And we have yarrow growing here wild. there's baby pink yarrow. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. We, we ended up starting, you know, if you go to like a green house and you buy like an established yarrow plant, they're like $15 a plant. And I was like, I really want these. So we started them from seed and in the first year we ended up getting blooms and they were like full size. was blown away by how quickly they grow. Yeah. And they're such a pretty plant.
17:16and medicinal and all of that too. Yeah, the leaves are really pretty. They don't even look like a leaf. They look like a pine needle. Like a fern, yeah. Yeah, they're really lovely.  I am such a sucker for plants. I, if I had my way, our whole property would just be all peonies every year. That would be amazing.
17:37But I don't have my way because I am married to a wonderful man who wants to grow vegetables and apples and pears and plums and peaches. We don't have pears yet. So he wants all the things and I'm just like, why can't we just pick  one and make it great? And he's like, because it's boring. And I'm like, okay, yes. I'm in all the things.  I'm in all the things person. think, you know, peonies even where they're they're done after a certain point. Oh, yeah. Short, short bloom season.
18:06I just want stuff all year. One  of my kids was like, oh, what is your favorite flower? What's your favorite smell? And I was like, it's not a flower. It's a tomato plant. I love how tomato plant leaves smell. uh It's just the joy you find in all the different things. And plants are definitely good for that. Oh, they are.  I  can't have lilacs in the house anymore because I sneeze. Oh, no. Didn't used to.
18:33But in the last year or two, if anybody has brought me a lilac stem, I'm good for about five minutes and I walk by it and it makes my nose tickle and I sneeze. It's not really an allergy, but it's just a little tiny irritant. But I love how lilac smells and we got some  lilac fragrance oil and made  lilac candles.  And the lilac candles don't bother me at all.  I still get to have it.
18:58I still get to have lilac in the house and I don't actually sneeze every time I walk by it, which is great.  Yeah,  lilac has always been one of my favorites.  But this last year I grew stock. Have you ever grown that? No. Okay. It looks sort of like a snapdragon. It's a barassica. So it really likes those cool temps and it has the most unique scent I have  ever had with a flower.
19:27like a little spicy, super floral,  the smell. had one stem of stock in our house and the whole house was just full of the fragrance of it. And it was so beautiful. We're going to do a lot more this year. just, we do  a lot of our seeds through Johnny's seeds and they have the varieties they have are so beautiful. The colors, that's another one. If you want to grow something that smells really good.  cool. I'll have to look it up and add it to the list.
19:56The list just gets longer every January. Yes, January especially. These winter months are rough for us plant lovers. Yeah, although I'm really glad that I asked you to be on the show now because I think if I had asked you to be on the show in May, you would have been like, Mary, I'm not going to have time until January. Yes, that is definitely the downside of this life is you get busy. It keeps you busy.
20:22Oh, yes, it does. And especially the younger you are because you have way more energy in your 20s and early 30s than I do at 56. Yes, there are a lot of things that we, you you get in January, you get really motivated and you're like, I can do this, I can do this, I'm going to start all of these projects. And then July, you looks back and is like, girl, what were you thinking? You do not have the time for this, but we do it anyway. It's great.
20:48I figure I have one more weekend before my husband says I'm going to bring in the seed trays and get things started. Yes, that is my day today. Actually, that's what I will be doing after this. We're going to start some seeds.  Yeah, I'm hoping he holds out until at least the first weekend in February because if we start them now,  I will not have my kitchen table for 12 weeks. That that is a problem. We ended up.
21:13with all of the growing space in the high tunnel. That's sort of how we started, but we transitioned into our garage is heated. um We insulated, got it heated and do grow shelves out there. And that has made it so, you know, the like LED glow where you're like, don't, we don't need this surrounding dinner and everything all the time. So that has enabled us to start those early crops sooner and not be bothered by that as much.  I made the mistake of buying the pink  grow lights from Amazon.
21:42I thought I was getting the white ones. No, we got the pink alien looking ones.  Yeah. And that was like three years ago. And we have windows right all around the table in our kitchen  and they face toward the road.  And I said, you know, anybody driving by is going to think we're growing marijuana in our kitchen. And my husband laughed and he said, we have moved to the country.  They know we're growing vegetables. And I was like, okay.  Yes, that is a thing we've had people ask.
22:13Yeah, but that pink glow is so creepy, especially at three o'clock in the morning  when you wake up and need to use the bathroom and you come downstairs and the whole kitchen is bathed in pink light.  Yes.  It's like, oh, there's aliens in my house. OK, cool. Yes, we started our growing  project before we moved out to the country. We lived on a little lot. ah And I was like, you know, if we want to grow, we should practice here. So we started growing some of our own things. And in our city house, I did the same thing and got
22:43the blue purple lights and so many of our friends as they would come and go from our house would joke about that. Oh, what are you growing? know, like just tomatoes. That's it. Basil. have to leave to bite into it. It's basil. It's great. Yep, exactly. And honestly, marijuana is not as big a deal as it used to be. So I'm not always worried about it, but it just made me laugh when I saw that they were pink lights, not white. I was like, oh, I
23:11I clicked the wrong thing on Amazon, but they're cool. It'll work.  So I try to keep this to half an hour. We're only 23 minutes in, but I wanted to talk about barn cats with you because  on your Facebook page, you have a photo of a beautiful long haired,  I assume it's a barn cat.  And we have a kitten who's about 16 to 20 weeks old. We don't know who got her from a friend.
23:37who looks exactly like your cat. Our cat's name is Smokey. What is your cat's name? Her name is Floof, but I am not responsible for naming the kittens. Are you kidding me? That was our mama cat's name. Really? Oh funny, my three year old named her. yes, they get to pick the names for the cats.  Oh, we don't have Floof anymore. She disappeared.  Oh, that's the worst. Yeah, we've had that happen. Was your Floof a black, white and orange?
24:06Calico by any chance, because that's what ours was.  She is a tortie. So she's dark, kind of gray and has some orange in her and got the long hair. That foofy hair, I think, lended to the name. That's exactly why we named ours Floof, because my husband was like, what do we name her? said Floof. She looks like she's going to explode. That's so funny. We had two of them, actually.  We had friends pick up the other one and it was Poof and Floof. uh Our Floof.
24:35had three litters before she disappeared and we have one cat left from her. He's a little over a year old. He is an orange long haired cat. Oh nice. And his name is Fluffybutt because he has his mama's extremely long hair.  is name of Fluffybutt.  Cat names are the best. have some just outrageous names.  One of our cats name is Garbage. um
25:01Constantly gets into our dumpster. So his name is garbage, but then our neighbor cat who's a long orange haired is Stanley So, you know you're out and you're like, hey Stanley you're walking a garbage. We've got you know, it's a whole thing Well the the one that looks like the cat that you have on your Facebook page Her name is smoky because when she moves  she is basically a dilute calico So she's got some buff and some really silvery gray  and
25:29I don't think there's a speck of white on that cat,  but she looks like smoke when she's moving  and she's gorgeous. And then her sister is shorty because she looks just like Smokey,  except that she's got short hair. Sure. And then the third one that we got is another orange kitten that looks exactly like  the one that's over a year old that we had to begin with.  And his name is Junior because we can't tell them apart when they're away from us.
25:58So yeah, I love having barn cats. Like when I was a little kid, we always had a pet cat and we had one at a time. And I said to my mom one time, said, why can't we have more than one at a time? And she said, because they're basically indoor cats.  We live in a thousand square foot house. I want one cat.  I said, well, I want all the cats. And she said, I know you do. You have loved kittens since you were a baby.  And now,
26:26Literally, I could have all the cats I wanted to and they're outside and they're not a problem. Yes, that has been our experience.  I grew up my great grandparents going to their little farm and they had kittens, you know, when we would go over there and it was like the highlight of our day, my siblings and I.  And we have some allergies to like pet hair and stuff.  you know, when you have like a lot of little kids, you're like, I don't need anything else in the house to clean up after.  We've just decided no indoor animals  and for mom's sanity.
26:55So when we moved here and there was a cat, my kids were just enamored with this cat. She's a barn cat, little standoffish at first, but had kittens and it, you just watch their faces light up and how much fun they have. And it's just been one of the highlights that we didn't know was coming with the farm that, you know, they just thoroughly enjoy every year.  Yeah. A um lot of people don't like cats and that's fine. They don't have to.
27:24I love cats because cats, they decide that they are your friend,  it's an honor because cats really have no use for people. All they want you to do is feed them.  Yes, we have uh my husband is a cat lover. I'm a bigger dog fan, but I think especially as we farm, I appreciate what the cats do so much. You know, they'll come in with rabbits and different mice and things they catch. And I see they're so functional, but we will with our little micro dairy when we milk.
27:54We have, you know, when we milk each animal, we'll strip out the first couple of squeezes of milk out of each quarter. And then we have this cup we strip into and there we tap it on the ground and all of our cats know they will come from near and far when they hear that tap on the concrete. And we pour it out into a little dish for them. And it's like the highlight of their day. They love it. It's so fun.  It's treat time at the farm. Yeah. And the other thing is, that we literally only had two cats.
28:24up until a month ago, month and a half ago. Both males, one fixed, not fixed. One fixed and one not fixed. There we go.  And my husband was like, this is a problem. And I said, why? And he said, because they're not going to be able to keep up with the rodents in the string in the summer. He said, right now, everything's kind of quiet.  He said, but that humongous pole barn is going to be overrun with mice if we don't get some more cats.  And I said, well, considering we have two males, that's going to be a problem. he laughed.
28:53Um, our friends over at O'Connor Family Acres here in Lesor,  um, Tracy and Paul have some barn cats and they happen to have some kittens and they brought us the three that I was talking about.  cannot freaking wait for fluffy butt and smokey  to get together and have babies as strength because they're going to be the longest haired, most beautiful kittens ever known to man.  Yes, they, we have.
29:19We have the Siamese cat that we originally got with the house and then a long-haired orange cat that's our neighbor's cat and they we went from having  oh my goodness two females to having over the summer 20 um cats with all of their litters  and all of the kittens are so fun and so beautiful and it is  pure comic I mean fun to watch them all just like explode out of the barn door following their mamas around it's amazing but at the end of
29:48the summer, we were like, okay, we got to find some new homes for these guys and found a couple of local families that wanted some barn kittens and you just, you you're like, we're good with one or two. But when you have animals and you have grain and feed and chickens and all, you know, I've seen people with like massive rodent problems and we just don't have any of that. And I attribute that 100 % to the cats and you know, it's it's great fun for the kids, but it's also functional.
30:18Oh, we wouldn't have as many cats if we didn't have a big old  pole barn that needed to be patrolled for mice because that would not be a good plan. ah The saddest thing I've seen so far regarding kittens and dogs, we have a dog and I talk about her a lot. I haven't talked about her a lot lately though.  Her name is Maggie. She's five. She's a mini Australian shepherd. She would have made the best mama.
30:46ever, but we didn't want puppies. So she was spayed when she was six months old.  She loves it when  the kittens come out of the barn and get introduced to her. And  she freaking knows when there's babies in the barn. oh Because my husband and my son would go out and play with the kittens to get them socialized so they were friendly. So she would smell the kittens on my husband and my son  when they would come in the house.  Saddest thing I've ever seen.
31:15We didn't have any kittens this past summer because flu flaked off and that was it. We didn't have any female cats. And uh Maggie kept looking over toward the barn all summer long, like, where are my friends? Where are my babies? And so the other day, the three new kittens were in Maggie's doghouse. And I say that loosely because Maggie barely uses the doghouse. So the cat take it over  and Maggie can reach it.
31:42and the kittens have discovered that there's hay bales in there and that it's a nice warm place to hang out. So Maggie noticed movement in the doghouse and went over and stuck her nose in and smelled the air and you saw the tail start to wag. She got a nubbin. She's not a tail, she has a nubbin. And I was like, oh no, this is going to go really good or really bad. And she was barking at the cats because she didn't know they were there to begin with.
32:11They're not little babies. They're not six week old babies coming out of the barn. They're almost full-sized cats now. And I was like, oh, this is going to go bad. And after she got done barking at them and they managed to get past her and get back to the barn, she came trotting over the door like, I have new babies. Oh, cute. So saddest thing ever this summer, because there were no babies for her. And I think that she really missed them. And then
32:39happiest moment of her life was discovering that there were new cats in her  doghouse once she figured out they were good kittens, they were fine.  Sweet. Yeah, we have an Anatolian shepherd. He's gigantic.  And he and the cats have a love-hate relationship, but he is a guard dog.  But he and the cows, when the cows have babies and stuff, it's so sweet. I love those like...
33:06interactions they have with each other and the friendships they make and one of our cows is his best friend and it's just it's so funny to watch and we love it.  It's so funny because growing up I thought that cats and dogs hated each other. m Because you're told that as a little kid. and dogs don't get along and I'm like yeah okay I know better now because  Maggie would raise a litter of kittens even though she's a dog every year if we love. Oh sweet.
33:36And she would let them just like curl up against her. One of the last kittens from the last litter  tried to nurse from Maggie. And  Maggie very gently put her nose right under that kitten and lifted up and moved it out of the way. She was like, no, I'm not actually your mama.  Yeah. was very sweet.  Very, very sweet.
33:58There are so many moments like that when you live on a farm or a homestead and you have animals because they do the craziest, funniest things.  On the flip side, when a cat gets hit by a car and dies, that's hard too. Yeah, loss in any way. have,  you've heard  the phrase where you have livestock, you have dead stock.  You're like, it's just part of raising animals, right?  You get to enjoy them during their lives and then...
34:28Then when they pass, it's always just so sad.  Yep. First barn cat we lost the road. I cried all day.  All day. Beautiful, beautiful silver tabby.  And the second one we lost, I slammed cabinets and yelled and said a few choice words and didn't cry because you got to get used to it. Yeah. have, unfortunately with dairy cows, specifically with the jerseys, the calves can be fragile and it's
34:57It's an adjustment when you are not used to that kind of experience with loss  when you lose calves and it's just, yeah, you go through all the range of emotions.  Yeah, and you lose the potential of that animal. That's the hardest part because you have all these  hopes and dreams once you find out that your cow is pregnant. Yeah, it's a long process.
35:22Yeah, and then that baby doesn't survive and you're like, but I had such great plans and now they're not going to happen. Yeah, and we bottle feed our calves too. So our kids are really involved and it's been rough every time it's happened. you know, you're like, it's all about teaching kids too. I feel like right now a lot of people don't have that hands-on experience dealing with loss anymore.  We're not close enough to nature. We're not close enough to things that are fragile.
35:48And so we just try to really walk with our kids through that and be like, okay, you you take care of animals in life and you take care of them in death and uh having compassion and understanding the cycle of life has been really valuable. Another thing that I just, you you  look forward to a farm and all the things that you will learn and glean from it, but it's those little things where you weren't necessarily thinking that was going to be a huge part of it, but it is.
36:16Yeah, there's a couple of things that I hold on to when it comes to loss.  One of the things that I tell myself all the time is that the price for loving something is knowing you're going to have to say goodbye at some point. Yeah.  And there's another one. And of course, now I can't think of it. Oh,  how lucky are we to be able to have that depth of feeling of love? Yeah. Those are the two things that make it easier for me. Yeah.
36:45I have seen some posts recently about how cruel the dairy industry is and, you know, I'm not saying that that is never the case, but you know how calves are just a commodity and I'm like, oh, you know,  you've clearly never cried over a calf. Like, m you don't know until you find good places to get your dairy, find good places that really value their animals because there are those people out there where it really does mean a lot to them and it is their literal blood, sweat and tears that go into.
37:12raising these animals and creating amazing genetics and the next generation of milk mamas and Yeah Yep, I am so proud of all you ladies who are under 40 who are taking all of this on Because it's a lot and it's a lot when you're raising kids along with the animals Yeah, it is. It's everyone warns you you know, oh this is
37:40going to be so much work, you're not going have a choice. You're going to have to put it as completely different when you're experiencing it in those moments where you're like, okay, you know, my kids still get sick, and I still have to milk. You know, where you're like, there are still things that have to happen. There aren't days off, you know, it's negative 60 wind chill, all of that, you're like, it still has to happen. And walking through it is really the only way to fully grasp what that means.  Yep, absolutely. And you know that 2026 is the International Year of the Woman Farmer, right?
38:09I had not heard that. Wow. It is. And you are doing it. So again, really proud of you, Addie. Thank you. All right. I try to keep this to half an hour. We're a little bit over. Where can people find you? We are actually going to be putting up a website in the next couple of weeks. So I don't have that info yet, but you can find us on Facebook or Instagram, Frostbite, Family Farms, LLC. And we would love to connect with you over Messenger or I think my phone number is on there. Yeah.
38:39still love the name of your farm.  I  love wintertime and I  love frost.  I don't love frost bite, but I still love the name. I know it's still fun.  All right. As always, people can find me at AtinyHolmsteadPodcast.com. If you'd like to support the podcast,  you can find that at AtinyHolmstead.com slash support.  And if you like this podcast, you should listen to  the new one that I just started with.
39:07Leah from Clear Creek Ranch Mom on Facebook.  It's called Grit and Grace in the Heartland Women in Agriculture.  Addie, thank you so much for taking the time and I appreciate it and keep doing the good work. Thank you.  All right, have a great day. You too.  Bye.
 

Day by Day Dairy

Today I'm talking with Sara and Nick at Day by Day Dairy.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Sarah and Nick at Day by Day Dairy  in Wisconsin.  Good morning, guys. How are you? Good and good morning. Good morning.
00:21How is the weather in Wisconsin? Snowy. um looks like it's all trying to melt today, but it's going to be like 40 today. Yeah. Not a warm spell before it gets cold again, but  never stays cold too long.  I'm your, I'm your neighbor in Minnesota and it's supposed to hit 40 today and 45 tomorrow.  Oh, okay. Yeah. It's, I prefer to stay frozen all winter instead of the thawing and I'm like freezing and muddy mess.
00:51I'm sure it's not good for the cows feet.  They go out on a concrete this time of year. We have them on a concrete cow yard and the ones there in the tie stall barn, they go in and out. They'll go in and out for a little while, but then we put them back in the tie stall. So yeah, they don't see too much mud this time of year. Try to keep them clean and dry as best as we can with  the weather, you know.  Good, good.
01:15My husband watches videos of farmers and dairy farmers and cattle, know, steer  meat, meat farmers on YouTube all the time. And he's watching, he's always watching these shows where the  cows' hooves are all messed up from being out on wet pasture. And I'm like, it's so gross. Why do you have to watch these? I, isn't Nate the hoof guy? I watch his videos. He does, he does pasture or  um, hoof trimming. Yeah. He does hoof trimming.
01:44It heat up pasture  and uh a freestyle barn cows. So it's kind of a mix, but I don't know why it's satisfying. like watching it.  When we let ours out on the pasture, we rotationally graze all of our, all of our heifers. So they're always on fresh grass from probably beginning of May to almost first a week in December, sometimes a second week in November, depending on the weather. And the cows go out in a dry lot that has some.
02:14green on it, but um just because they have a totally different ration, the milk cows do.  We haven't figured out a way yet  to perfect that intakes that they eat out and out if we do rotational grazing. yeah,  no, definitely, we do get them outside quite a bit when the weather is appropriate.  Good.  All right. So since I knew I was going be talking to you,  there is a song that I learned in school, I think.
02:42And it's something about day by day, day by day. Oh dear Lord, three things I pray. And I don't know if you guys have ever heard it, but I had to learn it for a musical chorus thing back in probably sixth grade. So it was a long time ago. And so thank you for sending me into the way back machine by your name. And how did you, how did you get your name? Well, we were trying to think of names for a while.
03:09And I'm like, Oh, what should we do? We had a lot of different like ideas, none of them just felt right. And one morning Nick woke up and he's like, I think, I don't know he said something about taking things day by day or something. Yeah. We're just trying to take it day by day to get to the next day. So then we're like, Hey, day by day dairy.  It just kind of happened. Yeah. It just kind of happened like that.  Awesome.  Um, and also Wisconsin.
03:38As far as I know, last time I looked it up, which was a few years back,  Wisconsin is the or  pretty much the state for milk production in the United States. Is that right? think California passes us in fluid milk production, but I think we're still number one in cheese. ah I believe California, because they have... Yeah, go ahead.  Is that how you guys got the cheesehead moniker?
04:07Yes, yes. Yeah, there's like a cheese store. There's so many cheese stores all over.  Yeah. Both proximity.  Yeah.  Oh, yeah. When my husband and I make road trips to go see my folks in Maine, we go through Wisconsin because we drive and there's a uh Dane DeForge exit and there's a cheese shop there.  And the first time we drove to Maine, he was like, we have to stop there. He grew up not far from there.
04:35Well, he didn't grow up far from there. His family is from there. He grew up in Minnesota, but he used to visit family in Wisconsin.  And he's like, we have to stop there. And I said, why? And he said, because they have the most wonderful Granny Smith wine, Granny Smith Apple wine. He said, and they have chocolate cheese.  And he was raving about this chocolate cheese. And I was like, okay, so is it like fudge? He said, I can't explain it. You just have to try it. And I'm not a fan.
05:05It is the weirdest like fudgy cheese thing ever and  I it smells like fudge but you bite into it and it's really smooth and and soft like cheese and He gave me a piece. I ate it and I looked at him and I said I'm glad that you like it because it is all yours  Yeah, I don't think I've ever tried chocolate cheese
05:30Yeah, it's really weird. I mean, if you love fudge and you love hot chocolate, you're going to love this. But I just, couldn't get past the texture of it. we ship our mouth to a cheese plant too. Yeah, a little one. A small one. Yep. Screes. So our mouth goes to cheese. Is that all it goes to? It doesn't go to butter or anything? Well, I mean, some of the cream gets separated out when they're doing
06:00when they're doing their process to make cheese, but that goes to, that would go to a different creamery. I mean, that's what most cheese plants, and then you, you know, you got your whey products too that come out of some cheese plants when they take out the whey. So I mean, there's a lot of things milk turns into when it gets turned into cheese. Okay. So usually, you know, your whey gets separated out from your milk and your, and your,
06:29and you usually get some cream and that's on a cheese plant what they end up doing with that because they buy the product off of me. But um there's a lot of different things that milk gets turned into, you know, like your protein powder on your,  your, oh, I can't think protein shakes and stuff like that was where a lot of that way ends up. Okay.  And uh do all your creams, your cream factories take that and turn it into, you know, like your whipped cream and stuff like that. And, but
06:57Yeah, no, mainly all of our milk here goes for goes for cheese. There's only really off the top of my head. I think one real local fluid milk plant. And when I say local, it's Appleton would be the Lamers that does liquid milk, drinking milk in the in the area. And when I say in the area, that's an hour and a half away. So there ain't too many plants that do drinking milk around here. OK, cool.
07:25So how did you guys get into this dairy farming? That's a lot. We start way from the beginning. Well, ever since I was a little kid, I grew up on a dairy farm. My dad would have been the...
07:44fifth generation dairy farmer and I'm sixth.  But he milk cows for a while, him and my mom did, and they ended up changing career paths.  Probably when I was about 14, the cows ended up going and we converted it to like  a beef operation and we calved out our calves,  cow calf operation is what they call it. All your animals freshen in and you raise them through the summer months and.
08:13Me and my brother would work with them, cows and the calves in the summer months when they're out on pasture. And then every fall we'd sell the calves and put the cows, you know, back in the barn, take care of them all winter, get them bred and do it all over again. And we did that for a little while and I kind of got some steers and stuff through that, but I really just always felt like I was, if I was gonna farm, I was gonna do it as much as I could, as young as I could. And the only way I could feel like I could really do all.
08:41farm  and get the calf, well was, you know, a milk cow you have 365 days a year and you get milk out of it and a calf where beef cow you only got the calf. And I was a lot more hands on with the dairy industry and I always kind of liked the dairy industry and I always milked for other farmers after my dad got rid of the cows. So, uh, yeah, I just, when I turned about, I think it was 20 years old, I started milking a few cows  and I kind of.
09:10and renting out a barn. And I got one site that I rent out is where the milk cows is at. And then my home farm is where we do the rotational grazing with the dairy heifers and the dry cows and all of our young stock is at the home farm. And all of our, go ahead. So it's in your blood is what you're telling me. It's pretty much. mean, my grandpa spent a lot of time with me ever since I was real little working on the fields, fixing stuff. I mean, he's really the reason I'm doing what I'm doing. So yeah.
09:41Do you still absolutely wholeheartedly love it?  Most days, but you know, you have your good and your bad days, I guess, just with anything. Let's put it this way, I've tried probably, I don't know, how many different careers or how many different jobs, and I just always say, I'm just gonna farm.  So I mean, it's just, I don't know, just something I've always probably do for as long as I can.
10:07Okay. Is the dairy you guys' only job or do either one of you have a jobby job as I call it? So  I also grew up on a dairy farm.  Nick and I met in high school.  So we've been together since then. But once I graduated, then I um ended up working  off the farm  and doing that for a while. And then once we had our kids, we had two kids back to back. They're 11 months apart. So then
10:37We were like, well, they're only young for, they're only at that young stage for, you know, a short period of time.  And so we made the decision that I'll just, you know, raise the kids  at home on the farm. Um, so that's kind of how that came about. Otherwise, um, we did have that income too. Um, and I also have, I also own a reindeer business with my dad, which I started back in high school. So we've been doing that.
11:07on the side.  So busy with that as well, especially during the holiday season. yeah,  I'm sure that you were very busy here a month or so  ago. Baby reindeer are my favorite, favorite baby animal. They are so cute. They are, and they're so tiny when they're born. They're like 12 to 15 pounds. Are they as soft as they look? Yes.
11:35They are very soft.  I'm so jealous, Sarah. I've never been able to pet a baby reindeer before.  have  been able to pet white-tailed deer because we used to go to a place when I was a kid, um Maine Wildlife Sanctuary or something like that. And there were always fawns in the spring that had come in with their moms.  And you could feed the moms and of course the babies would come up with them and you could pet the babies, which was really fun.
12:03If you know anything about white-tailed deer, they are very soft, but it's more like a sleek soft and the baby reindeer look like they're just smushy. Like you just push your fingers into their fur. Yeah. And they're fluffy, very fluffy. Yeah. Yep. Boy, I am so envious that you get to deal with calves and baby reindeer. How lucky are you?  Lots of animals. Yes, absolutely. So I just talked to a young woman.
12:30Uh, Friday, I think it was Friday for an episode for the podcast that came out today.  And she is also a dairy, but it's just her and she only has 15 cows and milk right now. And she only has access to 30 cows right now. So do you guys have a lot more cows than that? Or are you a small dairy as well? We're small. We keep 50 milking. There's usually about,  and then between dry cows and heifers and
13:00If we have a couple of steers or anything else, there's, there's another probably 50 to 60 heads. There's around 110. Well, and then you got your calves. So you're always about 110 head roaming around here someplace between the two sites. And, uh, and, know, I guess, uh, and then we do cash crop land at the other site where we do our rotational grazing and stuff. So there is, you know, we do have other, uh,
13:28I guess just get at it. It's pretty diversified.  I guess there's cash dropping. We sell hay. We do a lot of different other stuff too, I guess.  I'll still farming, but yeah.  I keep hearing that from a lot of people that if you're going to be in agriculture,  you probably are going to need to be diversified because  if something goes wrong in  one section, you have the other section to rely on of your business.  Yes. Yes.
13:59Yup.  Agriculture is one of the most interesting fields to be in, I swear, because there are so many avenues to go down and you don't have to just focus on one. Actually, it's smarter to focus on more than one.  Yeah. And then because you talked about that  one girl, she had a lot smaller herd. But when we say because some people will probably think our  herd is big, but actually like in our area.
14:26It's small. It's very small. There's there's thousands and thousands of cows of dairies around here. I think there's what more cows and people in our county. Yeah. And this side of the Mississippi. It used to be the statistic. The statistic. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. But yeah, no, yeah, it's there and it's you know, they all kind of go hand in hand. The crops kind of go with the cattle because if you're not going to grow a really good crop, you're going to get any.
14:55good milk out of your cows, know, and cattle like eating good quality, healthy plants. it always kind of, everything kind of seems to go together. So yeah, it does seem like multiple different avenues, but it's all kind of neat at the end of the day when you come in the barn and they're full of milk that's all from work you did out in the fields and that you did obviously with the cattle every day. It all kind of bundles up into one thing that goes into one silver.
15:20stainless steel tank that gets picked up every other day. It's just kind neat that way.  Yeah, it all works together in a circle and  that's what agriculture is. mean, we don't have cattle, we don't have goats, we don't have sheep, we don't have any livestock here except chickens. And I'm not sure that chickens count as livestock. I think they're little dinosaurs and  herding dinosaurs is not the easiest thing on the planet.
15:50We do have a 50 foot by 150 foot um farm to market or farm to table garden. And we have the chickens and  the garden scraps feed the chickens. The chickens make eggs, the eggs feed us, the eggs feed our neighbors. And then we continue to have the energy to grow the garden.
16:15So it is just a circle here too. All of everything in agriculture is just one big circle. uh Yep. That's amazing.  It's almost like nature had a plan, huh?  Yeah. It's almost as well, guess seeing you brought up the chickens, uh, this last summer, we tried some chickens out in pasture and it is amazing to see what them chickens will do. We, we moved them around in their, uh, chicken tractor, it's called. Yep.
16:45And it's amazing to see the amount of clovers and other plant vegetation that comes back  out in them pastures, you know, because it was just grass before, like your fescue and your timothy. It's amazing to see the amount of clovers that's out there and the diversity from there from, you know, that chicken manure being applied to that area. It's really neat. yeah. It's almost like magic. I just, love everything about it. And that's why I love this podcast because
17:14You guys know this stuff like the back of your hand, but when you're explaining it to me, I feel like the little spark comes back in your voices about how it all works together. Yep. Yeah. You get to interview all, cause in agriculture there's, a wide range. I mean, more than just dairy farming and beef and you get to talk to a ton of different people. I get to talk to people who buy acreage and turn it into, um, agritourism places. Oh.
17:44Okay.  Which is really fun because people are so inventive. I mean, I talked to a couple months ago, they have a lot of them forested acreage and they put up a cabin so that people can come and spend a night or a couple nights or a week in a cabin in the woods. There's no outhouse, there's no shower, there's no nothing. It's very rustic. But the people who go there love it because they get to just decompress.
18:13They're told what the rules are. Don't leave food out because there are bears around and they will come get your food. And if you're in the way, they will get you.  And I just love that they took something that was not  necessarily growable or harvestable. And they're growing it in a completely different way.  it's a good like people who want to experience that but don't own it or don't have, you know,  access to it. That's a nice thing that they offer to people.
18:42even if it's just a short period of time.  exactly. I mean,  you don't have to buy an acreage and get cows and ducks and chickens. You can like think outside the box and use it for something completely different. If you want to. Yes. Yeah. It's like we are putting in more fruit trees this year because fruit trees do really well on the land that we own.  And we got
19:12apples last year, like more than enough for us to eat and to sell some at the farmers market for the first time since we moved in five years ago. And we always wanted apple trees. Like my husband and I have been together for over 20 years and we used to just sit and dream about what our homestead would look like if we ever got one.  And the first thing out of both of our mouths was apple trees for sure.
19:36Can't tell you how delicious that first apple tasted because we've been waiting a damn long time for them.  I believe it.  So, um do you guys have a specific time that you calve? Is it in the spring because it's warmer or do you end up  with calves in the winter?  Well,  with the dairy and us  being in the milk business, we calve year round.  I mean, there's no... m
20:04Back in the day when it was a cow-calf pair, we always tried to have the calves in the ground, know,  middle to later spring. But with the dairy cows, I mean, we're calving year round, you know, trying to keep five to six animals coming in the barn  between the heifers and stuff a month. Sometimes that works out. Sometimes you only have two or three. It all depends on your breeding and how it goes. But yeah, we try to keep a uh decent  flow of  animals calving monthly.
20:34You have babies all year round? Yep. Oh my God. I'm so jealous. I mean, I know it costs you a lot of money and a lot of time and a lot of energy. And I know it's a job, but how sweet is it to have those calves every month? Yeah. There's a lot of them. There's a lot. Well, they add up. They add up. They add up. You don't think there's going to be a lot? Oh, yep. There's quite a few.
21:03And then, sometimes I like little jerseys, but yeah, yeah,  I to know. Yeah, two of them are coming, but the jerseys were kind of something I thought I'd be fading out of. And they kind of came back with a vengeance. I had more in the barn at the other place than I really thought I had coming up. And I thought I was down to about two and I'm pretty sure I'm going to have seven again. So  as most of the herd Holsteins, yeah, most of the herd is Holsteins.
21:29I say this all the time when people bring up Jersey cows, they are my favorite cow. I love their faces.  know. I agree.  it's like a... oh Holsteins are beautiful animals, but Jerseys just have this thing about them. It makes them look like a stuffed animal and I love them. I think the calves,  look like some kids, like I think it was my nephew, they call them a deer the first time they saw...
21:57Jersey calf they're like deer. I'm like, nope. It's not a deer.  It's a calf  Yep, and the other thing that's that's really funny is I for a long time called any bovine a cow and My dad after years of this growing up. He was like just so you know, not all bovines are cows and  I said they're not and he said no he said a male  Not able to reproduce bovine is a steer
22:28He said, a male bovine who is still able to produce is called a bull. He said, and there's a whole bunch of distinctions for the female cows, but they're cows if they're female. And I said, why didn't you tell me before? And he said, because cows are cows. He said, we're not raising them. And I was like, okay, why are you telling me now?  And he said, because you are so curious about everything. He said, I thought I should tell you before you ask.
22:56So  the distinction for  the female bovines, a heifer is a cow that hasn't had babies yet?  am I mistaken?  what's the name for a cow that  has had babies? Is there a different name? No, no, no, no, you're a cow. No, it's a cow. oh then if you really want to get anything under a year, it's called a calf. And then when they're
23:25a year they're called yearlings the heifers are now and then when they're bred a couple months just short bred and then when they're within a month or two don't quote me on that definition they're called springing heifers.  Oh okay. Yep so yeah so yeah I guess there's a uh plethora of terms if we really want to get down to it otherwise it's just calf heifer cow. And then there's steers. Steers and bulls.
23:52Well, the whole point of the podcast is educate the general public on all the stuff they don't know. So I figured I would take the chance to ask experts. Yeah. That's a big misconception. And some people think, a lot of people don't know the difference between beef and dairy either, that there's a difference between the breeds. Yeah. And there is. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, there is. There's a lot of people who don't know that either. Well, a lot of your beef cattle, like what I
24:21when my dad was converted to for a while there, um they're bred with just the idea that they're going to be meat animals and they're going to produce meat and they're going to, and then the,  then the cows are going to grow calves and they're going to nurse on over five months. And then those are going to be either their replacements eventually, or steers where your milk cow is obviously produced to have a calf, produce milk and get bred back and do the cycle over again.
24:52Yup. Okay. So I know you guys are a dairy, but I also know there's no guarantee that all of your cows are going to have female calves. So do you guys sell the male calves off? yeah. Okay. So yeah, that's a loaded question with our breeding. A lot of the dairy industry has gone to, they look at their cow and they're only breeding. I'm just going to throw a random percentage out there. Like the top 10 to 15 % are getting bred with.
25:21Sex semen  so you're getting like sex hosting calves usually on the ground.  They're female  and then you're breeding them bottom half to or the bottom third or whatever um You're breeding them to beef So they're getting crossbred with like a beef animal like we talked about before and that beef animal is then put out to market, you know,  Like an Angus or Simitol there's uh
25:49Usually them are the two main ones, but there's quite a few beef breeds. But yeah, that's usually when that's kind of been the new trend that has been happening. Probably, I mean, 10 years ago, a bunch of old farmers thought it was never going to happen. And now, I mean, it is something that happens quite a bit. And it is really kind of taking the industry over, I'd say, a lot, a lot. You're seeing a lot more cross-bred calves go to market, which is
26:18probably for the best, because now you have a high quality meat animal instead of a Holstein bull calf that, yeah, it's going to still put on meat, but it's not going to be as high quality as a cross animal. um yeah, that's kind of what happens. oh cool.  And then I have another podcast that I've started with a lady that is a rancher  in Nebraska.  And  she was telling me that this past year, 2025,
26:47was a banner year for beef cattle producers. Is the dairy market not keeping pace with that at all? Well, the calf market, you know, guys are having the dairy producers are able to capitalize on this calf market really, really well, because replacements for these beef industry is so tight. that's something that
27:15really, I think is really a good thing for the dairy industry. um But as far as the milk goes,  I say average and I say now it's starting to get a little below average. um Supplies there's enough milk out there by the sounds of it again.  But I mean, that's just with everything in this industry, it goes up and down. We've had some real good years in the past, but it's it's breaks are getting pumped and it's it's it's going to be a couple tight.
27:43tight years coming up ahead for milk, I would say. Please don't stop doing it because I love milk. I just drank a whole glass of whole milk with cookie, with ginger snaps that my husband decided to make this morning for breakfast. Do not stop, please. Yeah. Yeah. We'll be here too. I mean, when I started, I went through COVID when that happened. I remember getting $10 a hundredweight and way back when I first started it was $13 a hundredweight.
28:13And just to put that in perspective, a couple of years ago, I'd say last year, I think we hit 24 in July. It always goes up a little bit in summer. But like right now, if you look on the board for CMEA, it's gonna be down in January here to 1475. And our costs have not gone down any. And you're talking about being in margins or...
28:41The price of milk being within a dollar of a $13 a  hundredweight that 10 years or eight years ago was tough floating for a lot of producers. So, I mean, just put that in perspective for you. mean, that's kind of the way the industry goes every now and again. Granted,  you know, through time, we tend to get more milk and, you know, more diversifying, like with the beef cattle and everything else. But  that just seems to kind of be the trend with that milk price.
29:10Yeah, and the average consumer has no idea what it takes to raise dairy cows. They have no clue, the heart and the soul, number one, how much it costs to feed those critters,  not to mention any care that they need, like veterinary care. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.  And  yeah, it's  like I said,  I think that, you know, I'm glad I started when I did.
29:39Cause everyone when I started thought I was nuts. You remember you had a hard time finding?  Wasn't the plants, certain plants? Yeah, was a hard time. It was hard to get into plants. know it's a lot of plants weren't taking, but I mean,  it's, how do I word it? I'm glad I started when I did, cause you just eventually got to hop on the bandwagon and you know, it's gonna, it's a roller coaster just going up and down no matter what,  no matter where you jump in on it. So when I started,
30:08I was able to buy cows fairly reasonable. I'd buy cows from farmers that, you know, their barns are full and it was probably the bottom end of the herd, but I still took it home.  I, you know, and  with that beef market starting, I was able to breed some of them to beef and maybe kind of gave me time to breed my better ones to sex semen, which that helped a lot to grow the herd.  Um, cause yeah, I mean, when I think about what I started with, I want to have now for cows.
30:35and how I was able to do it in such a short time. And I think about how like my grandfather and my dad farmed and they always said it takes a lifetime to get a herd of cows. ah I feel like I'm my cows now. I know I don't have the best of the best by any means the word, but  I feel like compared to when my dad and my grandpa's, you know, were done, I feel like I'm very competitive with what they had, you know, I feel and granted, you know, there's a lot of time lapse there, but
31:05It took eight years instead of a lifetime. Just the genetics in these animals and the genomics is just,  it's outstanding what  has taken place in eight years that I've been doing it hard where I've been in the bar, melting cows. is just, it just floors me  how we were able to produce these animals now and for health traits and everything. It's amazing. Yes. It's amazing how when nature and science come together for good, actual good things happen.
31:35Yep.  So for funsies, have a parting question.  Do you have a favorite milk cow out of your herd? The one that melts the most.  I like all lineback cows. I know Nick is, that's a,  we don't have a lot of them, but I think they're so cute. No, I got an old cow that she was going with me.  She was a calf when I started.
32:04So she was born in that first batch, out of that first group of heifers I had when I started. So she's, she's what? I've been milking for probably eight, eight years. She's nine. She's no, well, she's eight years old. So she's on her sixth lactation. I don't know. I always really liked that cow. She never, never gives me no trouble. She's always there. Because she was there from the beginning. Yeah. Was she a calf when you got her or was she a cow? She cowed, her mom calved on the farm.
32:33Okay. So she was a calf that I raised. One of the first ones. Uh know, when I started milking, milking cows. so eight years ago she was born, you know, so yeah. Don't hear. Yeah. 24 months later she had her first calf. So yeah, you got a couple of calves in the barn, but yeah, she's hopefully we get her bread and she can have one more at least. And I lied. That wasn't my last question. Cause I meant to ask you this earlier. Sorry about that.
33:01I don't know what the laws are in Wisconsin for raw milk. So what are the laws in Wisconsin for raw, not pasteurized milk?
33:12My understanding, it's illegal. it? Yeah. You can't. Yeah. You can't. In Wisconsin, at least. I know I've heard some states, they're way more lenient. I think Minnesota just passed a lot. Is that correct? I feel like it wasn't Minnesota. Somebody just joined the raw milk. There was some legislature, legislature, the legislation that just went through. And there's a handful of states that have passed it. But.
33:41think it might come to Wisconsin. Um, I've been doing a little research on it and I think, you know, there's a lot more to that than people really  seem to look into. Like your water gets tested and, um, a lot of other things that need to be done. But I think it's, could be a real good opportunity for some smaller producers down the road. yeah. Um, yeah, I hope something happens with it. really do. Yeah. Cause we did look into it, but yeah, the state of Wisconsin is harder.
34:10for that, the raw milk.  Does Wisconsin have the thing where you can sell raw milk  only for pet consumption?  That I do not know. I'm not sure on because we were looking at for farmers to sell. To sell to people. Yeah, I don't know. yeah, I kind of get scared when we start talking food and drug administration regulations, I guess.
34:35You know, I just try to ask anyone who's in the industry because it is different in almost every state. Yeah. There is a handful of states. I know that just passed it because I remember reading some article, but,  um, feel like there's a lot more of a demand for it too. Now for people who want that as well, but it's just not as easy to get it because of those regulations. Yeah. The law here in Minnesota is that the farmers can sell raw milk out of their tanks.
35:04as long as the person buying it  comes to the farm where the cow lives and where the cow was milked and where the tank is. And I'm not positive, but I  think I could be wrong.  I feel like the law is that the  consumer has to bring their own container,  but I could be wrong. Like I said, I did not  look in it that deep. mean,  it is something that I think  will eventually
35:34just like everything will kind of pass, especially with all this stuff going on in West Chase of Nile with regenerative agriculture and everything else. think we're, it's an incredible time to really be doing this. There's gonna be a lot of changes in the next 10 years, I think, on these smaller farms, probably towards this. So I think it's gonna be interesting to see.
35:56Yeah, I'm all for it because I absolutely love love raw milk, but I can't afford it right now in Minnesota. It costs too much and I want to be able to pay it, but I just can't. Yeah. How much is it in there over there? The last I looked, it was over $10. I want to say for a half gallon, but it could have been a gallon. don't remember. No, I, yeah, I, there was a podcast I listened to about it. Shera pointed me towards it.
36:26Yeah. And there was a guy, a gentleman owned in California who started it and explained it. yeah, it is, it, could really do a lot of good for the industry if something like that would come ahead. And it just, to the testing that will be involved in it. Once they figure that out, and I think a couple more states do it and they have it for a while. I think that it's going to be an easier thing to get past probably in states like Wisconsin. But yeah.
36:56Yeah, the best thing about raw milk is that you can make cheese from it. If you try to make cheese with pasteurized whole milk from the store,  it doesn't usually turn out the way you want it to.  No,  no.  And the thing is with, uh you know, with raw milk, it separates. So I know a lot of people like to use that cream for many different things  that you can just do at home with.
37:22Yeah,  the cream from the unpasteurized milk is fabulous in coffee. It makes it into this decadent dessert drink, not just coffee. Yep, I believe it.  So yeah, I will be a happy girl when I can go to the regular grocery store and buy unpasteurized milk and know that it's fine. That'll be a great day. Maybe I will live long enough to see it. We'll see what happens.  All right, guys, this has been
37:51Fabulous. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me. Where can people find you? We're on TikTok, Facebook and YouTube, day by day dairy.  Fantastic. As always, you can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com.  If you want to support the podcast, you can go to atinyhomestead.com slash support  and just started a new
38:16podcast with the lady I was talking about and that podcast is Grit and Grace in the Heartland Women in Agriculture. uh You guys, I know you're busy. Thank you  so much for your time. I really appreciate it. No, of course. Thanks for inviting us. All right. Thank you. You have a great day. You too.
 

Wilson Dairy Farm MD

Today I'm talking with Haley at Wilson Dairy Farm MD. You can also follow on Facebook.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Haley at Wilson Dairy Farm in Maryland, I think it is.  Good afternoon, Hayley, how are you? Good afternoon, I'm great. And yes, you're right, we are in Maryland here, Baltimore County. All right,  and you guys  are a dairy farm and
00:27I've actually been really looking forward to this because I don't talk to people who do dairy. I talk to people who do  cattle for  eating the meat more often. So, uh number one, how's the weather in Maryland today?  Today is absolutely gorgeous. We hit 50 degrees and it's been sunny and just a light breeze and it feels like a nice spring day in January.  Yeah, oh in Minnesota it is pushing 40 degrees. Everything is melting. There's no wind.
00:56It's sunny, it's gorgeous. It feels like April, not January. Yes, I'll take it though. Yeah, me too, because I figure two weeks from now it'll be minus 20 with a wind chill of minus 40. Exactly, we don't quite get that cold, but anything under 30 degrees is cold for me. Yeah, it definitely gets cold here in Minnesota for sure.
01:21We had a night last winter that was pushing minus 50 windchill and I thought you know, maybe the northern tier states aren't as much fun as I as I think they are so I bet All right. So tell me about yourself and about your dairy farm because I am so excited to hear your story Sure. So my name is Haley Wilson. I grew up on a commercial dairy farm My dad milked around 220 Holsteins at our biggest
01:50So we were a small commercial dairy farm because there are a thousand head dairy farms out west. There's much bigger farms than that. for us, that was a lot. We milked 200 cows a day. It was about three hours in the morning and three hours in the evening. We had some family trouble over the property about six years ago. My dad's siblings had all left the farm when they were young.
02:15like a lot of small family farm disputes go, they came back and they wanted their inheritance. we were in a lawsuit during the COVID timeframe between 2018 and 2021. And um because of COVID, we actually never got to see a jury trial. We had a judge who just decided everything. And because my grandfather's notes that said what he wanted to happen with the land were not notarized, he said none of them could be
02:43admitted as evidence. So we actually ended up losing everything. had around 350 acres. it was all, yeah, it was all gone to my aunt and uncle who live in Virginia. They're not even local. So that was something we went through a couple of years ago that was really heartbreaking. And there were a lot of emotions surrounding the lawsuit, know, anger, frustration, just disappointment all around. My dad really took it hard.
03:09And  my sister and I kind of felt the weight of the family and we kind of had to figure out how to keep things moving. As far as the dairy cows go, I was able to keep a couple of my nice show animals.  I just kind of took them to different dairy farms around the state of Maryland, actually. People were very generous and would house them for me. Just last year, I found this farm  about 10 minutes away from my home farm where I grew up.
03:33and the people who own it were renting it out to a family who were moving and I reached out and everything worked out perfectly. I was able to move in last fall. I brought all of my young animals, so like my little calves and my breeding age heifers, no one who's in milk yet. I brought all them home here about a year ago.  And for the last year, I've been working on fixing up the farm  and getting a parlor built.
03:58When you're going to milk more than just two or three cows, you've really got to have the facility for it. And since I planned on shipping milk grade A to a cooperative, like my dad did, I had to have the facility to match their standards. So I just accomplished that here in November, and I'm shipping milk for 25 cows for the last 60 days. So that's catch up to where I'm at. Is it just you? It's just me.
04:24Yeah, it's just me. My parents live in a house that they rent down the road. My sister has a little farm she does ag tourism business  with, but I'm the only one that lives here. So whenever I say we, I mean me and the dogs, me  and the animals. We is a me and my animals concept. I um don't have anybody that lives with me or helps me. It's just me. Wow. Haley,  I am so impressed and so proud of you. Thank you.
04:53That is a lot to take on as one person.  It is definitely a lot. Once I got a routine, know, things have, it's like anything, you know, once you get a system down, it becomes a little bit easier, but there, you know, there's definitely tasks out there that I have to wait until I can call my dad or somebody to swing by and help me. It's just not possible to do some jobs by yourself. So I do my best,  but I do have an intern that sometimes will come down from Penn State when she's on her breaks and she'll help me occasionally.  So.
05:21People are very generous. Our community being in Baltimore, it is a big city below us, but ultimately the area that I'm in in the county, the community members are great. If I need help  fixing the manure spreader or fixing the tractor, there's people I can call that'll run over and just do me a favor and they'll help me out, which has been life-changing. Yeah, community is so important, especially when it's just one person trying to do what you're doing. Yes,  absolutely, yes.
05:51I mean, community is important anyway, but boy, you are really fortunate that you have people around you who are more than willing to help. That is fantastic. So how many cows do you have? So I'm currently milking 25. Now with the whole community concept, they're not all my milk cows. I only owned about 13 milk cows. So the other cows are actually from three other neighboring farms who said, hey, this young girl is trying to get started.
06:19go ahead, you can take a couple of our cows because I have to have enough milk to reach the agitator in my tank. They were willing to give me their money producing asset because they believed in helping a young person get started in the dairy industry. So I actually only own 12, I think it's 13 now, I just had one calf, 13 of my 25. I own them, they're registered in my name, but the other half of my milk cows are actually belonging to neighborhood farms who are trying to help me.
06:47get my feet under me and get started here. Because the rule is when the milk goes in the tank, you have to have enough milk in it to reach the little agitation stick that's in the tank. And if I didn't ship enough milk, it wouldn't stir and it would create bacteria. So there's lots of regulations around that. So  I own about 13 of my milk cows and then I actually have another 13 of the younger stock, which would be the calves and heifers that are not milking yet. So I own about 30.
07:17Wow. Oh my God, Haley.  I'm so blown away by everything you've just said. There's a  lot to it and it can be very overwhelming. It should throw at you all at once. So if I have to repeat anything, if you have further questions, feel free to stop me.  No, I just, can't believe how everything is coming together for you to do this. Yes. Nope. I don't believe it some days either, but I have to say I have faith.
07:44And not just religious faith, but faith in myself, faith in the goodness of the world, faith in just things working out. And I hate to say it, but if I wanted to get this far or to even go further, I have to have that kind of just belief that things will work out because there are days, there are really cold days when equipment won't start or the days where maybe a cow is sick or if I lose a calf, they're really tough. And the only way to get through them for me is to have faith that things will  work out the way they're supposed to.
08:14Yes,  and things do work out the way they're supposed to. The problem is sometimes the supposed to part isn't the way you wanted it to work out. Very true, very true.  I understand that completely. I've had a lot of those moments in my life, but I'm 56 years old.  I have lived a great life so far and it all does kind of come out in the wash. There's some really terrible things that happen.
08:42And there's some really fabulous things that happen that offset the terrible things. yeah. Just keep moving. Just keep going. It's all perspective. It really is. Yes, exactly. Wow.  I am just sitting here dumbfounded. I cannot believe all the stars that had to align for you to get where you are.
09:03Me as well. definitely, this fall as things were coming together, I, you things fell together and people offered, whether it's a manure spreader to borrow or coming to chop the corn. So I'd have feed in my trench for this winter to milk the cows, all those little things. I say little, they're big things, but like you said, everything just fell together so great. I will forever be in debt to lots of people around here. Well, I'm sure that if they needed something, you would be right there for them too.
09:32Yes, absolutely. Yep, because that's how this works.  You don't receive the kind of blessings that you're receiving on this without giving some back.  Correct. And if you own animals, if there's people who have  homesteads and they have any type of sick livestock where they need medication and it's nine o'clock at night, you're calling your neighbor who maybe also has animals and has something in stock. So that's just how it works when you have animals and have to take care of everybody.
10:00So if it's just you, do you manage to get any sleep at any point in time? I do. So I try to go to bed by 9.30 and I get up around five. So I do get  some hours of sleep. uh I do work a day job also away from the farm. And as sad as that sounds, I can't afford to pay my bills if I don't do it. So I wake up at five and I'm usually working outside until about eight or 8.30, depending if anybody needs to be bedded up or if I have to restock any hay or feed.
10:29and then I'll eat breakfast and I'll go to a day job from about nine to one. And then from one to three, I either run some errands or I come home and just try to relax. And then I'll feed the cows and do some afternoon projects and start my feedings again. And I'm usually finished by about six, 30 or seven at night. And then I have about two hours to do  whatever inside I might want to do. Sometimes it's just hanging out, but.
10:55Sitting still is not something I do well. So it's almost good that I'm this busy. Okay, tell me again how old you are, Hayley. I'm 29. Okay, so you're still in the, the, I'll sleep when I'm dead, 20s phase. Yes, yes.  Yeah, I was raising kids in that timeframe  and uh I was busy from,  oh my God, two o'clock in the morning until 11 o'clock at night because, because kids, you know. Yeah.
11:25Kids don't necessarily sleep from  eight o'clock at night until six o'clock in the morning.  And I had four kids.  And my youngest didn't sleep through the night until he hit kindergarten. So  that was a rough five and a half years.  bet.  I can't imagine.  So when  you're talking about all the stuff that you're doing, I am absolutely blown away.
11:52But I also know what I was doing when I was your age and people were like, I don't know how you do it.
11:59Yes, yes. It has its perks. I do  feel tired more so than others other days, but that's usually in response to like mental exhaustion.  Like you said, the physical exhaustion, I can get through it, can  push through it. But usually if I'm very stressed, if something  takes a toll on me mentally, those are the days that it can get to me and get caught up on it. Yeah, for sure.
12:29brain is good when your mental health is good, you can go without sleep for a while.  But you get that mental health thing dragging you down and you're not sleeping, it's not gonna go well.  Exactly, and I think that's very important to mention. In the dairy industry in general,  they talk about dairy farmers having a suicide rate higher than any other occupation, even above veterans. And that's one of those things that it speaks to you, just about how much of a toll that these people go through. uh
12:58you know, and there's nobody there speaking for them and the number of dairy farms is shrinking and there's so many people who just don't relate to what they go through.  And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to do this as well is having a social media presence and sharing the  problems and  the challenges with the dairy industry. I love what I do, but  even in the last 60 days, I have learned so much of how much these industry
13:25cooperatives that I am tied to, you I'm under their thumb because they are the ones hauling my milk. They're the ones finding a market for my milk. So I'm at their mercy when they want to change prices, when they want to change my hauling price, ah the  flexibility of their hauler or lack of thereof.  I've had to take buildings down. I've had to move my driveway. I have no choice. And most industries are not like that. You have some say or at least you get a day or two off here or there.
13:54As a dairy farmer, you don't have a say and you don't get a day off. So it does become exhausting.  absolutely.  Okay. So I have a question for you that might be touchy.  Is raw milk illegal in Maryland? It is. Raw milk is illegal for human consumption in the state of Maryland. It can only be sold from a farm if it's labeled as pet consumption only. That's correct. So if somebody buys it under that  label,
14:22and they choose to use it for themselves to drink. Is that  okay? Yes. Yep.  I know lots of farms who have said, know what, forget the co-op that I'm signed with. They're not doing anything to help me. Instead of getting 40 cents per gallon of milk from the grocery store, I'm going to sell directly to the customer, whether that's listed as raw milk or actually getting a grade A permit to process their own milk, either way.
14:47They'll sell directly to the customer and get three, four, five dollars per gallon in their pocket. So people can do what they wish with whatever they buy as long as the label meets the standards of the state and the federal government, the farmers in the clear. Good. I haven't had raw milk in Minnesota in  years, and part of that is because  I can't afford it anymore.  I looked the other day.
15:14I was just curious to see what some of the local farms were selling raw milk  at.  Over $10  for a half gallon. Oh my gosh. I was like, yeah, that's too rich for my blood. That champagne taste on a beer budget. I can't do it.  That's very true. And I think maybe some farms have gotten a little aggressive with it.  I have not gone down that route yet, but...
15:39I know around here people will pay double digits for a good raw gallon of milk. And maybe that's because where we live, cost of living in Maryland is extremely high, but their incomes is reflective of that for the most part, so they can swing it. But most parts in the country are not gonna pay 10, 12, $14 for a gallon or even a half gallon. That's crazy to me to hear as a farmer who produces milk. Yeah, I...
16:08I want to be able to pay it because I think that anyone who takes care of cows  earns every penny. But I just can't. I just can't do it.  Of course, of course. So, and I love raw milk. It is one of my favorite, favorite things for coffee in the morning because it is so good. Yes, I love raw milk. I have been drinking raw milk my whole life and I'm  happy to  share it with people who ask. It's just one of those things that I just do it quietly.
16:37If people ask, we're like, yeah, bring a container over, I'll get you what you need. But it's not one of those things I'm allowed to sell for a profit. Right, yes. And I'm going to tell the story again. I've told it like five times in two years on the podcast. We drove home  to Maine. I grew up in Maine.  And  milk is actually allowed to be sold  in grocery stores in Maine. That's raw milk. And I didn't know that. That was not the case when I lived there.
17:06And we went to the little general store down the road from my parents and they had glass bottles of raw milk.  And  I took a bottle up to the counter and the girl behind the counter, said,  how long has it been legal to sell raw milk? And she was like, I don't know where you from. I said, well, my parents live up the road. I grew up in Steep Falls, Maine.
17:30I said, but I live in Minnesota now and it's, don't find raw milk in a store. You have to get it from the farmer at the farm. And usually you have to bring your own container. And she was like, oh man, I knew you weren't from Maine, but I didn't know you grew up here. I said, yes, I did. She said, I don't know how long it's been legal to sell it in Maine, but it's been a while. She said, cause we've been doing it for a while. She said, we're not allowed.
17:58She said, it is frowned upon to advertise that you're doing it.  And I said, frowned upon. And she said, yeah, the state of Maine doesn't really like us to promote it.  And I said, okay, so every state has different laws about this. She said, they absolutely do.
18:21Yep, yes, that's correct.  So yeah, it's crazy.  I... People drink raw milk for  a very long time before we've got into the pasteurizing and  putting parameters on what we as humans get to choose to drink.  it bothers me to no end, but I always have to ask if somebody's in the industry. Sure, absolutely.
18:48And two, with pasteurization, know, back 100, 150 years ago, 200 years ago, when people were getting sick from raw milk, they did not have the regulations that we have now with the stainless material of the pipeline,  the cleaning regimen, whatever it is that the state requires. Each state's a little bit different. But I know the crucial testing that I had to go through, and I get test results every single week from my co-op. And I will tell you that our milk, whether it's, I say our milk, the girls' milk, my milk here,
19:17is cleaner than anything else you're ever going to get. I believe it. And the other thing that a lot of people don't know is that if you  sell your milk to whoever the hauler comes and your milk is tested, the whole truck gets thrown out if something's wrong with the milk, right? Correct. Yeah. If you test positive for antibiotics, if a cow is sick and I have to treat her just like we would treat our children or ourselves, you go to the doctor and you get antibiotics because you have to kill.
19:47that bacteria, whatever's growing, you've got to get ahead of it or it could kill you. It's the same with the animals. They have to be treated.  And then that milk has to be dumped appropriately for the right amount of time. And I have snap tests here. If anybody works in a vet office or even a doctor's office, they might've heard of a snap test. You can test milk, you can test blood with them. And my test specifically tests for antibiotics. And if I mess it up and I ship it,  I have to pay for the whole truckload. Yeah.
20:13does that whole truckload get dumped? It's useless? that's I thought. that's correct. They can't do anything with it and they don't want us to contaminate any other milk at the processing plant. Yeah, that's what I thought because that's how it is here too. Yep. And it's really important that that's the way it is because, you know, we've got to have safe food. It's just really unfortunate that things like that happen. And I'm guessing it hasn't happened to you yet.
20:42Not yet. Knock on wood. I am very adamant. I try to use leg bands to mark the cows if they need to be treated. I put it in my phone as constant reminders as to when was the last treatment date. I will test once in the morning and if it's questionable, I'll test again in the evening. It's just one of those things I'd rather be safe than sorry.  I can't afford to make the mistake. So fingers crossed I never have to do that, but I know new accidents happen  and it's just a good thing there's so many checks along the way to catch it.
21:11Yes, exactly. And I'm going to say this too. I was talking with Joel Salatin back a year ago for the podcast. You know who he is, right?  The name sounds familiar, but place him for me. Okay. He has Polyphase Farm in, I think it's Virginia or West Virginia. And he's big in the homesteading uh realm.  And he raises cattle and pigs and chickens and
21:40He's just really famous in  this circle.  And  he was saying that when he went to college, he went to college for becoming a journalist.  And uh when he told somebody he was going back to the family farm, they said to him, you're way too smart to just go be a farmer.  And the reason I share this is because  from what you just told me, you are incredibly smart.  You have to be.
22:10to be doing what you're doing. Farmers are smart. They have to be. I agree with that. And I feel like farmers are smart in a funny sense. And when it comes to troubleshooting and trying to solve problems, a lot of people think, well, I'll just call the plumber to fix it. I'll just call the electrician. As a farmer, can afford $180 emergency call for the plumber. So guess who's just going to figure it out? You know, we're smart along the sense of being, I don't know, personal,
22:41as troubleshooters. You know, we're always trying to find solutions. So we're forced to think outside the box when it comes to solving things. Well, the other reason I said that you're smart is because you have a lot of things you have to keep track of. And you have to be organized and you have to understand why you're doing the things that you're doing. That's correct. Yes, that's true. So I bet you're smart as a whip.
23:05Ma'am?  try to be pretty quick. You know, you to stay on my toes. And I think a lot of dairy farmers are like that. So that's a good uh analogy. Dairy farmers are pretty quick. And if they're not, you'll see which farms maybe struggle.  You've got to be able to stay on top of it. And you've got six million things going on at once, just like a mom, just like a parent. You've got so many things moving at once.  You've got to stay on top of it or things get dropped. Yeah,  absolutely. So are your cows Holsteins? Because you mentioned Holsteins in the beginning.
23:34I do have a couple Holsteins, that's what we milked growing up. So I kept a couple from my original family line. My dad did buy me a Brown Swiss when I was eight years old. So I have actually transitioned primarily to my Brown Swiss. So my herd of my 13 or 30, if you want to look comprehensively, is probably 80 % Brown Swiss. And then the last couple will be my Holsteins. Okay, I've never heard of a Brown Swiss. Tell me what's special about that breed.
24:02So the Brown Swiss are from Switzerland. They are one of the  main seven dairy breeds in the world.  They have the high butterfat content similar to a Jersey or a Guernsey. So they're a color breed is what they're called.  They have big white fluffy ears and a nice dark gray coat. I just I love my Swiss. They're like big puppy dogs and they are a bigger breed. So they're going to grow to be some of the biggest in my herd.
24:27but they're so docile and so slow moving.  I just love the personality of my swiss. They're super sweet and loving and like a lot of animals,  any breed can be that, but every single one of my swiss has been great to deal with.  I can hear the love in your voice and I am like that about the Jersey cows. I love them so much. Yep.  They are my favorite cow to look at. They are my favorite cow.
24:56to actually go up to and pet if I'm allowed to. Yep.  They're gorgeous. So I get it.  Everyone has their own favorite animal. Yes, that speaks to you. It speaks to you in a way that just touches your heart. And my Swiss,  I love them to death. They're great.  Uh-huh, absolutely. um So how many gallons of milk does a um brown Swiss? Is that what you said? That's correct, yep.
25:24How many gallons of milk on average does a brown Swiss give a day? So it depends on what stage of lactation she's in. Most of my brown Swiss are going to peak around 70 or 80 pounds a day. And when I say pounds, that's what we get paid in. So we're looking at pounds as a dairy farmer. Now, a gallon of milk weighs 8.6 pounds. So if she's milking 80 pounds in a day, that's about nine gallons. So she's not
25:51white as high of a producer as some of my Holsteins who could milk 100, 120 pounds a day. But ultimately the Swiss will have your higher butter fat and protein content. And those creamy, those creamy factors are actually a higher pay scale for the co-op because the co-op is going to pull that butter fat and protein out to make your cheese and your butter and your ice cream. So they,  what they lack in quantity, they make up in quality. uh Absolutely.  You've got this down, ma'am.
26:21I'm so impressed with you. Well,  I've done a lot of studying and I told myself if I'm going to do it, I've got to at least be somewhat prepared. em I understand I'm still learning every single day and I'm still calling my neighbor and saying, hey, this cow doesn't look right. This is when she calved. Her eyes are little sunken in though and she's not really milking right. You know, what would you recommend I give her?
26:45and we'll go through the list of medications and treatment options. So there's still things I'm learning every single day.  ultimately my goal is to have happy and healthy cows. Obviously I want them to milk as much as they can because that affects my milk check,  but I do not push them beyond what their body is capable of. I'm a competitive person. I want to do well,  but ultimately I love my animals and I want them to do the best that their health can allow. Yep. That's exactly the reason to do it.
27:15You don't get into raising dairy cows for  grins and giggles. That's correct. That's very correct. Okay. I don't really want to end this on a bad note, but  I know that dairy farmers in America  do not make a lot of money in their chosen profession. That's correct.  So you guys do it because you love it. And that is fabulous. But I really, really hope that
27:45The love of it makes up for the lack of income because I worry about you guys. We need milk and I worry that a lot of dairy farmers are just gonna go away because they just can't afford to stay in it. That's correct. And a lot of legislation, a lot of the rules and like I said, the co-ops, the bigger dog people don't care about the small farmer. They're always looking at the dollar and unfortunately the small farms are not being taken care of. So your options are get bigger.
28:13or sell direct to the consumer or be done. I have to weigh my options as well moving forward and see what I can sustain. I love what I do. I will always milk cows. I just have to figure out what would be the best for both them and myself right now. Yeah. And it's a very fine line. And I really hope that you get to continue to do what you love with the cows. And if you don't, don't
28:41look at it as a failure, please, because you are doing the best you possibly can. Thank you. Thank you. Like I said, I didn't want to end this on a bummer, but people need to know it's really hard being in agriculture and it's doubly hard being a woman in agriculture. Yes, that is 100 % true. I know this year they've delegated 2026 as the year of the woman in ag.
29:09So I'm curious to see what programs and what they're able to provide for women in ag this upcoming season. Yeah,  I'm just thrilled that there's finally a  year  of the woman farmer. Yes, yes. It's only taken till 2026 to make it happen. I know,  I know people. We're a very reactive country. We are not proactive. And that is one of the things that's driving these small dairy farms into the dirt as well.
29:39But unfortunately we cannot change the mentality of the masses, but those who see it, know, those are the people who can step up and make a difference for some of these small farms. Yep, absolutely. And I'm always saying on my podcast,  know your local farmer,  know your local  producer, you know, gardener. Because if the shit hits the fan and our grocery system goes down,
30:08it's gonna be really important.  And it's important either way, but it's gonna be really important then. Correct. Everybody should have some type of garden and even like a goat or a sheep.  That is a huge thing that I would love to see 90 % of the country, which I know populated cities isn't ideal, but I would love to see a higher percentage of the country have some type of animal more than just a dog or a cat  to raise their kids to take care of.
30:35It just teaches so much responsibility and caring for life and understanding death and everything that comes with it. Like you said, even just having that relationship with your local farmer or producer is golden for people now. It really is. It's so incredibly important. And  important has become trite. That word has become so overused.  And I don't have another one. So it's the one I'm going to use.  All right, Haley, I tried to get these to half an hour. Where can people find you?
31:05Sure, so you can find me on Facebook or Instagram. I post on both.  Facebook is Wilton Dairy Farm MD.  Right now  I'm growing steadily, so hopefully I'll see some people's new faces here soon.  Nice, okay, awesome.  As always, people can find me at AtinyHolmsteadPodcast.com. If you'd like to support the podcast, you can go to AtinyHolmstead.com slash support.  And there's a new podcast.
31:32that I am doing with a co-host. Her name is Leah  and she's from Clear Creek Ranch Mom on Facebook.  And um there's two episodes out already, third one on Monday and the website's being built right now  and the first three pages are up. oh The website  is Grit and Grace in the Heartland and the podcast is Grit and Grace in the Heartland Women in Agriculture.
31:59Haley, this was great. Thank you for filling me in on dairy and cows and how hard it is and how much you love it. I so appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on today. Thank you. Bye.
 

Mystic Roots Homestead - Herbal Simples & Apothecary

Today I'm talking with Corey at Mystic Roots Homestead - Herbal Simples & Apothecary.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters.  I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Corey at Mystic Roots Homestead, Herbal, Simples, and Apothecary  in Kentucky. Good morning, Corey. How are you? Good morning, Mary. I'm good. Good. How's the weather there? It is sunny  and almost in the  50s in South Central Kentucky today. It's really kind of crazy for it being January.
00:29Yes, I'm in Minnesota. It is going to be 40 and it is sunny and we have about three or four inches of snow on the ground right now. my goodness. I would love for some snow. had a very, very dry Christmas this year. So does it snow in Kentucky? You guys are pretty south, right? It does. I think in 2015 we had, or no, 2014, we had about eight feet here and I'm closer to the Bowling Green area. I was working at
00:58I was a dispatcher then actually, and we had so much snow that we had to close the interstate down. It was rough that year,  but it does. It's not been bad or equated to a lot in the last few years, but we've kind of been waiting for it. The woolly worms have been telling us it's coming, but it's not showed up.  And the woolly worms lied to me this year. I saw seven different woolly worms and all of them had different stripes.
01:27different width stripes. And I was like, okay, I need some consistency here, guys. And see, we've been all of the  persimmons have been given a spoons shovels, but we've not seen  it'll probably be here in mid February is when we'll see it. Okay, so for the listener who doesn't understand what we are talking about,  woolly worm caterpillars are are black and like a reddish brown.  And the ends of the caterpillar are black and the middle is brown, I think. And
01:56The middle band of the caterpillar tells you how long and how hard the winter is going to be.  And all of them I've seen have been different. And the persimmon fruit, if you cut them open,  it looks like a spoon or it looks like a fork, right?  Or a knife. A knife, okay.  if it's  spoon, fork, or knife. Okay, so if it's a spoon, it indicates lots of snow. uh If it's a fork, it indicates what?
02:24It will, I think it's very mild and then the knife it's going to be frigid. It will like, the knife will be cold enough it'll cut through you. Yeah. So it's a very frigid winter. Fork is very mild, but a shovel, you're supposed to be shoveling through that stuff. And that's what we've had, but we've not had it yet. Yup. I understand the last two winters we've had, not counting this one, we had a foot of snow each winter. That was it.  And the reason that I wanted to clarify what we were talking about is because not everyone is up on their,
02:53their weather lore. And if you want to learn about it, the old farmer's almanac talks about this stuff all the time. It'll even tell you when to cut your hair. Yes, it will. It will tell you when to breed your cows. It will tell you everything. We do a lot of stuff based off of the almanac and the cycles. We like it and it works that way. They've been doing it that way for hundreds of years. Why would we change it? Yeah, if it works, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Don't fix it. Exactly.
03:22All right. So tell me about your homestead and what you do. We started full on homesteading  last year. I've been staying at home for about three years now with the girls  and  I got a few quail and then I got some ducks and I got some chickens  and I started a hatchery.  We wanted to gear more towards sustainability  and
03:51I had a lot of hormone issues and we had some fertility issues and I started falling in the rabbit hole of herbalism.  And that brought me closer to my spirituality because it allowed me to learn about the land and the things that are provided here that are local that I can forage,  but that also heal my body. And that led us into homesteading and it blew up.  You fell down the rabbit hole.
04:19Literally with everything Just right in like Alice  Mm-hmm. Yep. Absolutely. That's how it happens. You get sucked in and you and you learn things and you're like what else is there? Yes, and now my family I Usually they come to me for little things. We don't get sick in my house a lot  So they're always like what are you doing? What are you using and I'll be like, well, here's some tea and
04:46I say community herbalist because I just offer consultations to people now at this point and if they want product,  I just let them have it. And that gets them an entryway into this  and it's an amazing place. It really is. um I am trying so hard to remember  to this spring, get um bird netting over my elderberry plants. Yes. Because they're trees.
05:15Which means we're gonna have to figure out a way to throw it over the top of the trees and they're at least six feet tall.  I would just grab a ladder  and tie some rocks to the other end of your net so it's heavier when you toss it. Yep. And that will help.  I have a friend that I used to teach with and she has a farm that's about two  minutes from my house  and they have a light.
05:42Grove of elderberry that's wild and I made four gallons of syrup this summer. Wow. Okay. So  I'm going to ask you because I keep looking it up and I keep thinking I need to make a bookmark and I always forget and have to look it up again.  What do you do with the berries to make it into syrup? Do you put them through a juicer? How do do it?
06:02You boil them on the stove. There are some people that will make an oxymilk first with apple cider vinegar, which allows it to be more shelf stable.  But what I do is  I put all of the berries into a big pot and I boil that down on a slow cooker for like seven hours.  Some people boil it because you have to  use that heat to break down  the bad chemicals in the elderberry because they have cyanides in them.
06:32from the seeds. But when you do that, that breaks that down, that heat breaks that down and it makes it tolerable for you to use. Okay. So I don't even know what the inside of an elderberry looks like. Is it a little tiny seed or is it, is it like-  So you know how like blackberries, each blackberry little pod has a seed in it that's about the same size of the berry? Yes. It's about the same. Okay. And then  after it boils down, I run it through a fine mesh strainer, put
07:01equal part honey to it and refrigerate it. Okay. Can you  okay. So  we have a pressure canner and we have a water bath canner. Can you can it too? You can if you use I believe the shelf stable version. I don't make the shelf stable version so it needs to be refrigerated. So it's only good for about three to four weeks  on um outside of the refrigerator but then it lasts for about six months in refrigerator.
07:30Okay, so it might be easier just to put it in the refrigerator. Yes, and there are tons of recipes. uh There is the Appalachian Forager. She's from Eastern Kentucky. She's got a big following on Facebook as well. She has a wonderful shelf stable recipe for it.  I've just not tried it yet. Okay, I'll have to look her up too because she might be somebody I want to talk to on the podcast. she was the possum festival queen as well, I believe. She's cool. She is amazing. She's big into fungus and mushrooms.
08:00So she's, she's who  got me started. found her and I was like, if she can do this, I can do this. She's not far from me. And I, she's,  I, oh, she's amazing. I'm going to have to look her up. Okay. So  I didn't mean to go off on a tangent about elderberries, but every time somebody brings up um foraging, it's the first thing comes into my head and we have been here for five years.  I have not gotten a single elderberry yet because the birds get to them before we do. They are so quick.
08:30Yep. And they're so quick. And that's why if it's the minute you have to watch them about every single day, the minute that they start ripening, you got to grab them. Yeah. The minute that they're good, grab them. The birds will get them. Cause if you go back the next day, they'll be gone.  Uh huh. Oh yeah. The birds love them. Yes. And it's so funny because I didn't even know we had these two elderberry trees until the second summer we were here. And I was like, I swear that's elderberry.
08:56And my husband said, okay, we'll look up how to identify it. And I did. And I said, does it have thorns?  And he said,  no. And I said, that's elderberry.  I have a little bush that's growing in like my tree line. It's only ever had like three flowers on it. So it's not really worth breaking anything off of to use for myself. just leave it for the birds to carry around and hopefully they'll spread some more. Yeah. But, um, when I saw it, I saw the flowers and I was like, Oh, what is that?
09:26And then I learned that it is also  very easily mistaken for em nightshade  and also wild carrot.  like, not nightshade, hemlock. Yes. So hemlock and elderberry and wild carrot all favor a lot. So you have to be very particular, but they're  all larger plants than each other. Like wild carrot looks more like  a wild flower.
09:56And hemlock grows up to like 10 feet. Yeah. And hemlock has some, has some medicinal properties, but if you're not careful, it'll kill you. Yes,  it will. And it's spreading so much in our area that I've offered to come and pull it  and remove it for people so their kids don't get into it  and things like that. Cause it's dangerous even to touch if you're not careful. Cause it has that powder on it. Yeah.
10:27So,  yup. Do you guys have wild plum that grows in Kentucky?  We don't. have, um, pawpaw trees  and,  um, I've never found one, but those are common here. Well, we have wild plum all over Minnesota and it's one of the first trees that blooms in the spring.  I would love plum jam. Uh-huh. Oh my goodness. We have a, we have, uh
10:54It's really hard to explain. We have a wild plum tree, but it was actually five that grew right tight together.  it looks like a massive wild plum tree, but it's actually five different trunks. So you have a little grove. Yeah, it's really weird. It looks like one tree and then you walk up and you're like, oh, there's five trunks here. All together, like touching each other.  It's really bizarre. And my husband picked some and brought them in just for fun this fall. And I
11:22They have little spots on them because they're buggy. not going to spray a wild plum tree. And I basically like cut it in half, washed it, cut it in half, took the pit out and ate the plum. And it was so good. They're so good. So sweet. And I said to him, said, if you and the boys want to have a plum picking party this fall, I said, I will help you make wild plum jam. And he said,
11:48This year, 2026, that's what we're going to do. We're going to try to get enough Oh, that's so exciting. Yep. Oh, I wish you were closer to me. Well, maybe if we make it, I can let you know and I can ship you a jar. Yes, I would pay for it. You don't have to, and it's not allowed. We cannot. In Minnesota, we are not allowed to ship anything that is bought. Bought. Okay, got you. But I can send it to you as a gift and no one Absolutely. I would love that.
12:18Well, I will see what happens.  I'll have a little box together and send you some remedies as well. Because there's some I can say I can send things as long as it's not glass.  Yeah, and we can send a glass jar. It's fine. We just can't I just can't sell anything that I make  that I cannot ship it.  What are like,  I'm unfamiliar because of course, it states very but what are like your all's cottage laws there?  Okay.
12:45This is one of my favorite and not favorite subject to talk about ever.  In Minnesota, there is a cottage food  registration.  It's not a license. It's called a registration.  And you sign up, you register for this registration and you can sell things out of your home kitchen, but they have to be shelf stable products. Right. So  no cheesecake.  Um,  no oh
13:14No buttercream frosting. Right. No, no dairy that hasn't been cooked into something. Right. We, I think it's similar here. Nothing that has to be refrigerated or warmed up. Yes. Yep. And, uh, the other thing is that in, I think it said 2027 in the email that I got, we're going to be able to ship our products within Minnesota. Well, that
13:43opens up some new doors.  helps. Yes. But that's good. But it'd be really nice if we could ship anywhere. That would be great. Yeah, that would be. think I'm not real, I don't deal with food stuff. And when I talked to  my local health department about the herbal stuff that I was doing,  with Kentucky, you have to be careful because of the realm of cosmetics.  So if it can absorb into the skin,
14:13You have to be very careful with what you call things. That's why soaps are okay. Like goat milk soap and things, but you can't make lotion  and sell it because it falls in the realm of cosmetic. So you have to be really careful.  That's why I geared more towards, I'll give consultations. I don't really like to sell my products, but I'll teach you  how you could do this for yourself at home.  Do you make lotions, Corey?  No, I make some balms and salves, but I've never
14:42dabbled in lotion.  Yeah, I tried making a lotion for my kid. He had some really dry skin on his face and he  wanted a homemade remedy. And I used um cocoa butter and coconut oil and something else. Can't remember what it was now.  And I was trying to make a lotion and that was what the recipe that I pulled off the internet said it was, said it was a lotion.
15:06And  when I put it all together and stirred it, it was like a lotion. And the next day it had set up like a salve. And I'm like, missing an ingredient. I don't even know how to make it lotion. And I don't know the science behind That's why I like salves. I like something that I can like  dip my finger in. And  I  use beeswax.  And however much beeswax you use will determine the  stiffness of your salve, which just works better for me. m
15:34If I'm using anything for the face, I'm going with tallow. Yep. Yep. I didn't have any tallow at the time, so I ended up using the cocoa butter. Cocoa butter's great. Shea butter's great. I love  aloe butter.  Aloe butter's a good one too. Yeah. The thing that we discovered though when I made this for him is that cocoa butter smells like chocolate. Didn't realize that it would. And especially if it's raw cocoa butter.
16:04Yep. And so he went to use it and he said, my face smells like a of hot cocoa, hot cocoa. And I well, I said, it's too bad you don't have a girlfriend right now because she would be kissing your face all over because most women love hot cocoa. They do. We do like hot cocoa.  It smells, it's, just such a rich smell because of the cacao, but it's so  fresh.
16:33I like hazelnut for that reason too, because it smells rich. It's a really good fragrance. Oh, absolutely. I love hazelnut coffee. Yes. And you can smell it when it brews through the entire house. It's... Yeah, husband made coffee scented soap last weekend. I it was two weekends ago. And the whole house smelled like coffee all weekend. I was just like, can make coffee scented.
17:02Soap anytime you want. Does he make goat soap? Nope. He makes just the cold process. I gotcha.  Cause we have friends that have goats, but they actually sell their goat milk to people so that they can drink it. So they don't always have any extra. And well, it's a very lengthy process to do goat. My mom used to, we raised Nigerians at my mom's for a long time and we would milk them and make soaps with them. And the curing process is very
17:31lengthy comparative to like cold processing. But  we loved it. My mom, she loved making soap, but she  got busy. She started teaching and  the goats were not suffering, but she wasn't spending the time that she wanted to with them. So it was better for her to discontinue her herd. Yeah, it happens. It takes time and it takes energy to raise animals.
17:57It does the stewardship and it is a dedication that a lot of people don't have  and it's hard work and discipline. And even if you're sick or cold  or it's ugly outside, they still have to have care. Yes. I always say that when you take on animals, you're taking on another kid. Yes.  And we, have hundreds of chickens, goats, or not goats. have sheep, quail.
18:28I  have rabbits now, we have pigs. They all have care. They all have to be cared for, but they're all like my children. Yep. it's,  again, I'm going to say it again. It's so hard when you have animals because  you  love those animals. And my dog yesterday, no, two nights ago was acting off.
18:54She was acting like she was starting to not feel good and I was like, please don't make me worry about you right now. Everything is going okay.  Do not be the problem child. She's the only  dog. And I got up  the next morning and she was back to her normal self. But I looked at her I said, thank you for not making me worry about you today. Right. Yeah. Like I can't handle that today. I had a bunny that was acting funny the other day. We had moved some cages around because I had a bunch of grow outs and I was looking at them. was like, tricks dude.
19:24I don't know what's wrong with you, but like we can't be having this. And the next day he was fine. Yup. It's so, it's so  heart wrenching when you think something's wrong. And then if it turns out to be actually wrong, it's even worse. Yes. And I think  it bothers me in the world that we're in because people don't understand.
19:50the difference between that some of my animals are pets and some of them are not pets, but they still receive the same amount of care and love.  And I would not let anybody suffer and
20:07That care that we give to them doesn't differ just because we choose a different timeline for specific animals for the needs that they provide on our farms. Yeah, absolutely. We just lost a chicken yesterday and my husband came in from feeding the chickens and he was like, we're down a chicken. And  I said, you kind of thought maybe we might be down one sometime soon. And he said, yeah, he said, I, I wish there was a vet to take chickens to.
20:37And I said, if they didn't expect you to pay the cost of 50 chickens to take care of the chicken, that would help too. Yeah. And that's the thing is with you, you have to, as a homesteader or a farmer or animal steward, you have to make those decisions. Like, am I going to pay a thousand dollars to take one chicken to the vet?  Or  am I going to do everything that I have in my resources and power? There are things that I keep here on hand.
21:06I've spent a lot of time learning how to doctor the chickens through the seasons. So that way we stay ahead as a preventative maintenance. Anytime there's a shift in the air, they get oregano oil. Yep. And that cuts respiratory issues about like 75 % on my farm at least. We're going to have to try that. We put apple cider vinegar in their water.
21:34I like the oregano oil because  oregano actually acts as an antimicrobial.  And so it's  wonderful for your gut health, but it will also take care of any kind of bacteria that could be happening that doesn't need to. I'm going to have to add that to the list. Thank you, Corey. You're so welcome. love it. We,  um, I use Tygaard  if there needs to be treatment, of course, which is available on Amazon.
22:04but  I also get oregano oil in a dilute form and it's on Amazon too. Okay.  I will have to look that up and acquire some and add that. think,  I think we'll probably still do the apple cider vinegar because  it to help  too. Yeah. Our chickens have been laying humongous eggs lately because we have a light in the coop.  Yes. And that's
22:33People are like, it's cold. They're not like, it's not the cold that does that. It's the light. sun went away. Yep. They need 12 to 14 hours of sunlight a day to produce eggs. Yep.  And people don't understand that. And you can,  which a lot of people do do artificial. I have so many  birds that I don't have to, we still get enough that I have a plethora of eggs.  Um, but with my quail, I have to substitute light sometimes where I won't get anybody laying. Okay.
23:03Um, I have a question about your quail. Do you have a lot, do you have a lot of quail? Yes. Do you sell the eggs to restaurants? I have not ever had anybody inquire. We considered it, especially being so close to Nashville. Um, but I am not producing that many. Um, we just hatched a close to a hundred in September and I've been going through and regrouping everybody. So I've got four.
23:32No, five different coveys with at least 20 hens right now, but I've not been  supplementing light for the last month. Okay. So what do you do with all the eggs when they're producing full tilt? My dad pickles them. Okay. They either get pickles, he eats them, he likes them as well, or I feed them back out to the flocks or the dogs. Okay. And they're little tiny eggs, right? Yes. I can just toss them out to them and they just eat them.
24:03Okay. That makes sense.  Um, if you ever do have a chance to sell them to restaurants, you should look into it because restaurants really like quail eggs. Yes. And I thought we have some interesting restaurants here in Bowling Green, of course,  because it's like the third largest city in Kentucky, but there's just not a huge market for it right here.  For me, at least that I found, and I may not have done enough.
24:32digging, but maybe I need to, have some friends.  need to dig around more. Yeah. I mean, I'm not telling you, you have to do it. I'm just saying, there is a huge market for that. Yeah. And even like the duck eggs too. Yeah.  I was very surprised. We were selling our friends, duck eggs in our farm stand this summer. Could not keep them stocked in the farm. People love them. Yeah.
25:03And people, there are tons of people around here that like the quail eggs too because of the nutritional value that they offer compared to a chicken egg. Yep. hear that a lot. They've got, they're so nutritious.  I don't, I'm not an eggy person, which is so weird because I have so many birds that lay eggs, but  I usually  gift eggs. think in the last six months, my male lady has gotten a hundred dozen eggs.
25:33She's the best, so she gets all of the eggs.  Nice. I'm sure she appreciates it. She's wonderful. But we also raise button quail. Not just, I have catornix and buttons, which are like oriental to look at quail, and they're tiny. And when they hatch, they're about the size of a bumblebee. Oh my God. They are so little, but they're so fun.  And they whistle, and it's like,
26:03And it's so cute. I didn't even know there were button quail. I learned something new every day on this podcast. They're not really worth anything to a homestead, but somebody that would want maybe a little ornamental bird, but didn't want like a parakeet. They're great. They covey the same way. They are a little bit flighty, but they're so cute.
26:31Yeah, there's a lot of they're so cute on a homestead. swear. They will. there's because it's everything's so cute. How do you not like farm animals? Yeah, it's ridiculous. I am a sucker for a baby goat. My  husband's mom or my husband's mother-in-law  and his sister all or my mother-in-law and his sister all raise goats. We have hair sheep. Yeah,  I prefer the sheep to the goat. They
27:00behave a little bit better.  do. And it's funny because my husband and I have talked off and on for 20 years about how great it would be to get a couple of baby goats and raise them. We have been on a 3.1 acre homestead for five years. Do you think we've gotten any baby goats? No. Do you know why? Because they're a pain in the butt. Right. That's what I told Jared. We've only got about five acres right here, but we've got neighbors. And I was like,
27:28Honey, the pigs get out enough. don't need the goats getting out too.  which we have wonderful neighbors. They love all of the things that we have because the chickens and the roosters especially, they crow all day every day because there's so many of them. They just talk to each other and they're like, we love it. It's so funny. We get so tickled at it. And I'm like, I'm so glad you don't hate me. Yeah. Our neighbor, our closest neighbor is a quarter mile away and I wish we lived that for far.
27:58They are industrializing our area. We're hoping to move soon,  um, on further away from  Bowling Green. We're 30 minutes away from Bowling Green and it's still growing fast and fast.  So we can't get away from it fast enough. Well, I wish you all the luck in the world with that because the best thing we ever did was move out of the town that we lived in.
28:27So we were right in town. We were townies. And now we live in the middle of cornfields and soybean fields and we love it. And our neighbors have a rooster who crows every morning. I hear him at 4 a.m. and he's got the softest crow. Like if he's crowing hard, something's wrong. Right. And they have at least one donkey and I can hear it bray now and then.  We would love one. And they have they have at least one.
28:56bovine, I don't know if it's a steer or a cow. And every once in a while I will hear it doing the lowing sound that they do. The really low, soft moo. I grew up on a dairy, I love cows. Uh huh. And I just, when I get up in the morning, I sit on the porch with my coffee and I just listen to all the animals waking up at our neighbor's farm. And I'm like, hey, better them than us. Cause I get to hear it, but I don't have to take care of the critters.
29:22Well, like we're in one of the smallest counties in Kentucky  and I'm nestled right in Mammoth Caves back door. Like I'm five minutes from the whole entire park. We're from Edmondson County, which holds the majority of the park itself.  So you wouldn't think that it would be as populated,  it's Bowling Green is growing. So now Edmondson County is growing.
29:49And so on the side of the river that we're on, on the South side, it's just becoming more populated. I want to go to the other side where it's not, and there's not so many people. And so we wouldn't be going far, but far enough that it's not populated as bad. Yeah. Yep. I understand, Corey. I really do. Which is just, I think it's just happening everywhere now.
30:18It's at pop, people are moving.  There've been an influx  of people from California here, which is great. I love that. Come live, come live here. It's not a slow life. It's not simple either, but it's not as fast as the city. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely.  All right. I try to keep these to half an hour, Corey, and we are there. was an absolute joy talking with you. Where can people find you?
30:45They can find me on Facebook,  Mystic Roots Homestead,  Simples and Apothecary, Herbal Simples and Apothecary.  I have a TikTok page as well. TTS, Mystic Roots. I do TikTok shop, wellness stuff that  I align with and then of course the bunnies.  But that's the two places they can find me. You're not on Instagram yet?  I have a personal Instagram, but I don't use it.
31:14I don't know. I got so focused on TikTok and the farm page on Facebook. I was worried to take on too much at one time. That's probably smart. The best advice I've gotten since I started the podcast two years ago  is to pick a couple platforms and stick with them, the ones that work for you. Yes. And that's what they said. That's what I heard as well. And that's what I did. And so far it's working really well.  I would like to advance more in meta because I feel like
31:44There's more growth as a content creator, but as far as like, if you're doing anything with affiliate, it's TikTok right now. Yeah, I don't even, I have a TikTok account only because my daughter posts things and a friend of mine posts things and they're like, you should have a TikTok account so you can see what we're doing. It's fun over there sometimes that people can be mean because there's of course billions of people can be mean anywhere. I don't understand that. It's free to be kind to just go on about your day.
32:14I'm going to say this. I haven't said this on the podcast ever before. takes  less muscles to smile than it does to frown. And I feel like it takes less muscles to be nice than it does to be mean.  I agree. I agree wholeheartedly.
32:31I don't know why people have to be mean. It's one of my biggest pet peeves ever and I try not to talk about it it just makes me mad.  As always, people can find me at a tinyhomesteadpodcast.com. If you want to support the podcast, you can go to a tinyhomestead.com slash support.  And I've started a second podcast with  Leah from Clear Creek Ranch Mom on Facebook.  The podcast is called
32:59Grit and Grace in the Heartland, Women in Agriculture. There are two episodes posted. Love that. Yeah. And we have a website that is, building it. It's like three pages in right now. And that's gritandgracenheartland.com. I will run over there and give you a follow. Everybody else should too. Mary, this was such a wonderful experience for me. It was really fun and I learned new things. I love you guys because you teach me things every time.
33:29Well, I would love to chat with you another time. Anytime you let me know if you want to. Yeah, I would love to hear more and half an hour is not nearly enough time for everything I want to ask. So we'll do it again in about six months. Okay. Sounds good, Mary. We'll talk to you later. Thank you, Corey. Thank you.  Okay.
 

O'Connor Family Acres - Surprise Piglets and a Soap Business Begins

Today I'm talking with Tracy at O'Connor Family Acres. 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters.  I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Tracy at O'Connor Family Acres in Le Sueur, Minnesota. It's a hyper local episode. Welcome Tracy, how are you? Hi Mary, thanks for having me. I am doing well today. It seems like it's going to be a little warmer today here, so very excited. And we're supposed to get freezing rain later today too.
00:28I mean, why wouldn't we? It's Minnesota. So  yeah, it's very gray, but that's why we're warmer. so yeah,  Tracy's been on the show before. It was a little over a year ago. And we talked about that you had just gotten pigs,  mangalitas, mangalitas. Yep.  And um that was the newest thing then. And Tracy has been selling her duck eggs in the summertime, all this past summer.
00:58at our farm stand, at our place. So it's been kind of fun. Yeah, it's been a great collaboration. I really appreciated the opportunity and it's been nice because we,  springtime and summer, we are  overflowing with duck eggs and then they take the winter off  and  know, hunker down, I guess.  Yeah, about the time they stopped really laying, we had a couple of people stop in and ask if we had duck eggs and I was like, nope, they're on vacation until April.
01:27It's very true.  they yeah we and you can put heat and light in the coop But we kind of let them follow their natural cycle. That's just you know, the way we've we decided to do it. So Yeah,  when they lay they lay very proficiently and when they don't they don't so You know, so what else is new on the farm in 2025 because I didn't talk to you on the podcast since December of 2024
01:57Yeah, so we've really just been expanding the goats.  We've had some baby goats this past spring and so they've been doing really well. um Getting kind of a wrangle on what the ideal number of ducks are.  So we've been working on that. And then we had  baby piglets  unexpectedly this fall. I mean, kind of unexpectedly. We knew the boar was in there with her, but...
02:25We didn't realize she was pregnant. that was a fun uh adventure.  And thankfully, our mama pig, Fiona, her name's Fiona,  has been doing  really well with the piglets. So  we have six  gorgeous little baby piglets running around. How old are they now?  Oh,  they would be about two and a half months. OK. Yeah.
02:53They were right before Halloween. just, yeah, just over about almost two and a half months. And they are so adorable. Like so adorable. I saw the pictures on Facebook that you posted, but I couldn't tell from the pictures how big they were when they were born. Were they the size of your hand or were they bigger than that? Yeah, they were probably the size of two of my hands, I would say. But they were, I mean, they were teeny teeny.
03:23um And then of course it was October in Minnesota, so we got to pick them up and bring them in the barn and mama did great with that. She was  not overly thrilled but was not aggressive, which was great. And then  we were able to, after a bit of time, coax her into the barn. um And we had the heat lamp set up in there and  they have a big enough paddock where they can
03:49go to the other side or come back and be under the heat lamp if they want. And they are just, they're doing super great in there. So yeah, looking forward to figuring out what we're going to do with. So what'll be eight pigs now, two adults. We have the male boar and then the female. And then we have the six piglets and of the six, I think only one is male. So all the rest are female as well too.
04:19Oh wow. Mm-hmm. Yeah.  Okay. Well, you might be in the market to sell a couple sows in the spring.  Exactly.  Exactly. I don't think they're called sows until they have babies. don't know  what version Yeah, I'd have look. It's... guilt? Are they guilt maybe? Yeah. Yeah,  I think that's right. I don't know. I'd have to Google it and I don't...
04:46want to make the clicky clacky noises on the keyboard right now. So yeah, no, I feel you. Yes, exactly. And then I've been doing soap. Soap has been my new adventure this year. yeah, tell me the story on how that happened because I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, I kind of fell into it, which was awesome. So my neighbor has the soapies is the name of the business.
05:12um And the soap bees has been around for 20 years, over 20 years. So my neighbor, Anne, who is amazing, um was looking to retire and not do soap anymore. um And  she asked if I would be interested in taking over the business. And so we made some soap together and I was like, oh my gosh, I love this. Absolutely, I would do it. So I have a full time jobby job, um you know, so it's really more of a
05:41you know, a part-time  pay for my hobby kind of job.  You know, maybe make a little extra money, but not, you know, I'm not trying to do it full-time, full-time, but um so I do probably one,  one show a month or so  and um just, you know, direct sales then  and um
06:04She mentored me for about seven months. made soap together.  I have her recipes, so it's all the same recipes that she's been  using for the last 20 years. um And the soap is amazing. Absolutely love it. And then  I ventured into,  also do, we do a shaving soap puck.  And then  I also ventured into dish soap this year. So I've been making that bar of
06:33of dish soap. So that's new just in the last couple of months. um So yeah, I was really fortunate to have an amazing mentor  and um you know, she told me the do's and don'ts so I didn't have to learn those on my own through  trial and error, although I've made plenty of trial and error my own self once I was flying solo. So, but it's been good. It's been really good. Good. Have you had a batch Cs on you yet?
07:03Absolutely. Yes.  Yeah.  It's  not fun at all.  And I just had my first batch  I  made.  So the soap or the shaving soap recipe is less because I put them in the round molds instead of the big square loaf molds. Yeah. And so it's less butters and oils  and  I put in the fragrance for a one tray of the square ones.
07:33instead of the lesser. And so now I have this chalky,  crumbly soap and I'm like, oh great.  So that batch is  going to get tossed probably. But yeah. hate it when that happens. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I've had a few where, um, so the other thing too is the sense that she was using the company that she went through. I took over the business in January and
08:01end of January, they went out of business. I was like 90 % of the  sense that she had been using were from that company. And I was like,  okay. So now I've  been kind of trial and erroring, erroring, trial and erroring soaps,  our fragrances. And so that's been a whole process as well too. But I feel like I have a good core group now of
08:27sense and then I just kind of mix stuff in when I feel like something new. So that's been good. So what are your usual sense that you make? Yeah, the big sellers are, mean, oatmeal, milk and honey hands down is the like best seller and I put ground up oatmeal in there as well too. So it has a little bit of exfoliating action and also it's very soothing for the skin. So I have people who
08:56have sensitive skin that order, I mean, like 15 bars at a time.  They just love it. And then um Angel Smiles is another big seller for us.  Sweet Rain has been an amazing one.  But I have a lot of the tried and trues. I have a cotton,  I have a eucalyptus, uh lemongrass is my personal all-time favorite.  I love the lemon smell. That's a good one.
09:26Um, and then I tried a new one this fall called crackling birch. And that one has been a great seller. So that one smells really good too. Nice. Um, Kyle and I have had one batch of soap seized on us and it didn't all the way, but we just, we just went ahead and poured it because it was still pourable, but it was starting to get thick, thick. Yeah. One hadn't poured it and let it cure.
09:54And it turned out that it was usable, but it was ugly as sin. And so we didn't share it with anybody. We just used it till it was gone, because it was fine. It was just, it just looked wrong. When we sliced it, had like little air bubbles in it. Yeah. Which you're I actually had a batch of eucalyptus that did that.  And the best advice I ever got was  just...
10:19Basically just sell it. Don't worry about it because at the end of the day people understand that it's handmade and that You know, it's you're not a machine pumping it out. There's imperfections. It's gonna look a little different sometimes um and I was  Honestly, I mean there's times when I've been like, I'm gonna mix these colors and it doesn't work, know, or I'm gonna do I'm gonna make this. Oh, I did um
10:45I did one for Valentine's Day last year  that was going to be, was the, the fragrance was sensual. So I'm like, oh, that's perfect. I'll do red. It'll be great. Right.  Um, it turned brown.  So I was like, wow, that's  not very sensual.  Um,  so I ended up calling it Woodland Bouquet and it was one of my best sellers. What did it smell like?
11:14It smelled like woodland flowers basically when I first smelled it and that's the other thing too, which I'm sure you guys know from doing it.  Sometimes what you smell in the bottle when you get it is different  once it mixes with the oils and the lye and you know all the stuff. And so when I opened it, it smelled like, I mean, old lady perfume to me, honestly, like in a not good way.  And I was like, oh no.
11:43But once it cured through the soap, oh, it smelled so good. It was just like, yep, like walking in and picking a bouquet of woodland flowers. That's what it smelled like. So that's why I called it woodland bouquet. And I figured,  you know, brown woodland. That's okay.  Yep. And honestly, not everybody is hung up on the names.  They want whatever they want. And if it smells good and it does the job, they're going to buy it anyway. uh It's so true.
12:12Kyle made a batch of leather soap the other day, last weekend. eh That  leather scent that we get from Bramble Berry is  so strong when  you open the bottle em and it gives me a headache. So he told me he's going to make leather soap and I said, let me get some Tylenol on board before you start because it's going to make my head pound. And he was like, okay, I'm going to start in an hour. was like, okay, let me go grab two Tylenol right now.
12:41Yeah. Did not end up with a headache, which was great. But the reason I'm even sharing about the leather soap is that I would never want a soap bar that smelled like this stuff when you opened the bottle. It's very, very strong and it's very chemically smelling. Yeah. But the bars of soap when they're done, they smell just like walking into a Wilson's leather shop. It's so good. Yeah. It's so nice. Yeah. It is so true that there are some where you open the bottle and you're like,
13:11And there are some that are just not my cup of tea, but they sell well. So when I'm making them, I'm like, oh, I'm going to smell like this  all day.  But they sell really great. And someone had asked me that actually at the last show I was at. And they were like, are there any scents that you don't like? And I go, oh, absolutely. But I will not tell you which ones they are.  I'll never admit it.
13:40Yeah, and I actually told you wrong. made the leather ones two weekends ago.  He made coffee soaps last weekend and that's always a happy day in my house because everything smells like coffee  all day long when he makes that. And then as it's curing, the whole upstairs smells like coffee.  Oh, and that's got to be your absolute favorite because you are a coffee fanatic. I love it. I do. I love the coffee soaps when they're curing because
14:05It just permeates the whole house and it smells like there's brewing coffee even  though there isn't because I'm down to a,  we make a pot in the morning  and I only have about two cups a day now. Whereas I used to drink a pot and a half a day in my younger days. Yeah, I hear you. I feel like as,  as we get older, things affect us differently, especially caffeine and alcohol and you know, all the things, all the fun stuff, rude.
14:33Well, I used to say all the time I would sleep when I'm dead and now sleep is my favorite thing ever. So that has changed too. It's so true. I feel like that's a whole nother podcast though. Yeah, the one about peri, menopause and menopause. exactly. The minute you hit 40, 45, everything changes. It's so true. It's so true. Okay.
15:00So I just made back to sorry, back to soap. I just made a fresh batch of my first batch of coffee soap. So I'm going to have to bring it over and compare it with your, like do a smell comparison with yours. I'm not sure if I like it or not, but I got to wait for it to cure. So well, we can, we can trade. you like ours, we can give you a bar of ours. And if I like yours, we can take a bar of yours. Yeah, that'll be fun. That'll be so fun.  I love it. I love that you're doing so and
15:30Kyle said to me the other day, said, you know, he said, I think I just want to make the business a hobby. Because we don't live in an area where it's going to really make money. And I said, that's true. And he said, so we should probably fold the LLC. And I was like, before you do that, said, I've got a podcast and I've got a second podcast starting here.
15:54let's keep the LLC for a little bit because the podcasts might actually grow this year more than they have. And he was like, okay.  So, so we're basically gonna still sell at the farmer's market and still sell at the farm stand. But, his big dreams for being, you know,  rich off of our little business are  done.  Yeah, I don't, I feel like anybody that I talked to that does it, you know, on a smaller scale is.
16:24You have to have two jobs or you have to have a breadwinner and someone doing it, you know, separately because there's just with the cost of everything, there's just no way to, you know, unless you're like really hustling and really, I mean, you have to, you have to really dive in. And to your point, I mean, there's so much in the market that you have to kind of, you know, really
16:53I don't know, really hit a sweet spot  or, you know, travel a Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard. Yeah. There's got to be something unique because if you're just making the same thing everybody else is making, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Yep. Well, and I think like I've definitely been at shows where you can tell vendors when you can tell the vendors who are doing it for their sole income versus people who are not. mean, they're sometimes it feels there's like this
17:23energy where it's really like intense. went with a friend. I met a friend  who started doing charcuterie boards with the em acrylic inlay. ah And I was like, oh, bless your heart because I can't imagine working with acrylic, but  she does beautiful work. so we were chatting, you know, shows and things like that because she knew I had done some shows and you
17:52How do I figure out which shows I want to do and yada yada. And we were walking around this little vendor fair and we went to a soap booth and this lady had a laundry stick stain, which I love a good laundry stick stain. So I was like, oh, can you tell me what's in your laundry, you know, in your soap here, in your laundry soap, stain soap stick, I don't know, whatever. And she was like, no, I cannot tell you. And I'm like,
18:23okay.  It was just so she's like, and then she went into the, 12 reasons why she won't tell me what's in there. But we were walking away and I told my friend, I was like, mean, good luck trying to find the right ratio of those ingredients to get the exact same thing. said, I literally have my ingredients on my label. I was like, you know, but good luck trying to figure out how to mix those seven butters and oils together to get the exact recipe I have, you know.
18:52Um, so I just feel like sometimes people are really intense with it. Yeah. I have stopped asking people questions like that because, and if I do, I'm like, okay, I don't want the secret sauce thing. Just give me a basic idea of how you make the thing because people do get really testy and I'm like, I don't want to steal your idea. I just want to know what I'm going to be putting in my body or on my body.
19:20Yes, exactly. Like knowing what's in there, like knowing it has coconut oil or shea butter or whatever is one thing. But if you're like, oh, I need to know, do you have seven ounces of this or do you have like, that's a fully different question. But just knowing what's in there. I what if you're, I had a, had a lady who came up and I have coconut oil and she's extremely allergic to, one of the ingredients, maybe it wasn't coconut, it was something.
19:51And I was like, oh, yep, don't touch it. It's in there. oh It's important to know what you're  putting in there. then there's, people have  certain, um they want certain things in products or don't want certain things in products and that's your personal choice. if it doesn't align with what you want to utilize, then  you shouldn't have to.
20:20Yeah, it's kind of crazy, but  I've really been enjoying it. The shows are fun. It's nice, especially since I work from home. It's nice to be able to get out and  see people and interact with people. um And for the most part, everybody's been extremely supportive, extremely friendly. um You know, some shows are great successes and some not so much. uh that's, you just kind of take the good with the bad. And you know, I always look at it as an opportunity to get out and try new things.
20:49Yes, and you are a social butterfly, unlike me, who is basically a caterpillar still in the chrysalis. You're so sweet. I always say I'm an introvert that presents as an extrovert. I am great small group and great one-on-one. If you get me in a massive crowd of people, I'm like, ugh. I still force myself to do it, but I am...
21:17I'm much better one-on-one in small group, which is perfect for affairs and stuff because it's small, you  you're talking to individual people. You're not having to, you know, speak in front of large groups or that's not definitely. I can do it. I don't love it. You know, I'm sitting in my sunroom right now looking at the birds outside, which is perfect. um I love your sunroom. Your sunroom is so cool. Thank you.
21:45It is, it was a big selling point for their buying point for the house. guess it would be buying point. um Yeah, we were, I really love this room and it's my absolute favorite. Thank you, Mary.  Does it stay warm in the wintertime? It stays. Yeah, it does.  There's in floor heat, which is nice. um So it works out really well. um So the thank you to the people who developed this.
22:12end of the house before we bought it.  It's beautiful though, so it's great. And I just refilled the bird feeders this morning, so, I knew we were going to be chatting and I'm like, oh, you can sit out here and relax a little bit while we, while we, while I get to talk to my friend Mary. Yeah, I'm going to fill in the listener here. I, my husband and I have been over to Tracy and her husband Paul's house once. I have been there once and the sunroom she's talking about.
22:40It basically is uh windows on  one whole wall. And I can't remember if the other short wall is windows or not. Is it just one more? Yeah, it's got one like big sliding glass door basically. m Yep. uh behind their house is a ravine.  the glass wall looks out into the trees  that are at the top of the hill before the ravine.  And uh it's the most peaceful thing to sit there and
23:07have a cup of coffee and chat and just be looking outside at the birds and the bird feeder. It is my absolute favorite. Thank you so much. Yeah. And I, um, you know, I have house plants in there too, so you kind of get the oxygen and the greenery going. So yeah. Yeah. We need to have you guys over again soon. we do. And today is not it because I'm not going anywhere in freezing rain. That is fair. But, uh,
23:37Yeah, my favorite room in our house is my kitchen because  I've always had either an apartment with a kitchen, which is not fun.  And the house that Kyle and I had before had a galley style kitchen and it was very small and it wasn't a room that you could sit in and have a cup of coffee. And I love our little breakfast nook thing at the end of the kitchen because we didn't have that before. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and for the listeners, we've been to your house a couple of times and
24:05There's an amazing island in the middle of the kitchen where we get to sit and have coffee and chat a bit while the boys are out talking garden stuff. And uh we've had dinner over to where we've sat in  the nook and had dinner, which was great. It's great conversation and it's warm and  welcoming and I love it.  Thank you.
24:29And our little nook has windows that look outside into the trees too. So I think Tracy's going to have a running theme about wanting to look out into the trees and see the birds.  Exactly. Exactly.  All right. So  I wanted to share this too. Tracy gave us three beautiful kittens about what a month and a half ago, maybe less. That's about right. Yep.  Because we needed some more barn cats because we were down to two.
24:56and two is not enough for humongous pole barn and a 3.1 acre  lot. uh the kittens have decided that they are brave. They have finally come out of the pole barn  and they were up on the steps this morning and they are gorgeous. And anyone who has a ranch or a farm knows that barn cats have their place and they need to be here to do their job. But I also fall in love with them just a little bit.
25:21We were holding off on naming them because we were afraid that they would run away when we let them out of their carrier. They did not. They have stayed. And the long haired grayish,  blackish  one  is Smokey  and she's female. The one that looks just like her but is short haired  is named Shorty because she has short hair. And then there's a long haired orange one that we don't know the gender of yet.  And his name is Junior because he looks just like our other orange barn cat.
25:51And thank you, Tracy, for sharing the kittens with us because they are so special. thank you for taking the kittens because we,  anyone who knows who has a farmer ranch knows they multiply very quickly. So,  um, yeah, no, it's been great. We, I'm glad that they're doing so well and I'm glad they're venturing up to see you, which is good. So they're, they're great. The cats are the, you know, just.
26:20They're  to your point, they have a purpose, right? They're rodent control for sure. And they a really good job. A great job. Yeah. But they are also, you know, they're fun. They're fun to interact with and pet the kittens and, you know, watch the cats do funny things and  they're fun.  So I came out the other day, I went out to feed the goats and the pigs and I turn around and it's, you know, just like late.
26:48dusk so it's almost night but there's just enough light you know yeah um and i turn around and there's cats in the tree like up in the tree over  where the roof is and i'm like what are you doing like there's four cats up there what is happening right now  um and they just you know they were just chilling they went up there after something i'm sure but oh crazy um
27:17The kittens that you gave us, can't remember if was last weekend or the weekend before, whatever the last weekend was when it was actually sunny for an afternoon. We've only had a few of those lately. um All three of the kittens and the older orange cat were out in where the doors are to the pole barn, like where the track is.  They were just roughhousing and rolling each other and then they would be nice and groom each other and they go back to rolling each other.
27:44And I sat there and watched them for 15 minutes because it was just so entertaining to see them playing. Exactly. It's so fun. I know I'll always get caught up, but sometimes when the baby goats are running around, I'll watch them play with each other, have a good time. I sat out there, I threw some hay out for the pigs because they like to kind of burrow and make a nest. so I threw a couple of hay.
28:11pieces of hay over  and the pig was literally picking it up and throwing it and putting it everywhere, strewing it everywhere. And it was just really fun to watch him just love life. um And so that's always, you know, it's such joy. It brings such joy for sure, which is a lot of uh fun. Simple joy.  We humans think that we're the only ones that play.
28:38but almost every animal will play when they're young.  Oh yeah. So apparently it's something we actually all need is to play.  Yes. Yeah. Well, it brings joy for sure. And then seeing other animals, peoples, humans,  know,  laughter  is definitely the best medicine. Someone said that.  I don't know who said it, but I'm glad they said it. Yes.  Agreed.
29:06All right, Tracy, I tried to keep these to half an hour and we're almost there.  Where can people find you?  Yeah, so I have,  we have our farm pages, O'Connor Family Acres um on Facebook and I also have the Soap Bees, which is on Facebook as well. um So those are my two, my farm, you my homestead page and then my soap page.  So both of those are on Facebook and I...
29:36You know,  do so I do ship my soap. um I actually have a customer in Massachusetts I ship to and a customer in Florida that I ship to. So, ah you know, just I post  a list of my sense every now and again, and people just message me through Facebook to order. So very nice. So these on Instagram. ah It is not, but I was actually just looking the other day about setting up an Instagram account. Do you have an Instagram?
30:03I do. don't like Instagram because I still don't understand how the algorithm works. Yeah. Okay. I'm going have to, I'll do a little more research on that. Yes. And I have been asked by customers to set up a website for orders. So that's on my 2026 bucket list, but you know, there's an expense with that. So I also try to keep it as, you know, I try to keep my prices as low as possible. And some of that is, you know,
30:32considering those things, but um so eventually I'll probably get a website together, but right now I'm all on Facebook.  Well, it's free and it works for now.  That is true. That is true. Thank you so much. It was really great to chat with you today. It really was. And I will talk to you after I stop recording about the website thing because I have a couple of things for you. Okay.  Oh, perfect. Love that. Thank you. All right. As always, you can find me at a tinyhomesteadpodcast.com.
31:01And if you'd like to support the podcast, you can go to a tinyhomestead.com slash support.  And I have a new podcast,  the first long episode. I did a teaser on Friday, but the first long episodes is going to be dropped tomorrow morning.  And the new podcast is called Grit and Grace in the Heartland Women in Agriculture. Which was amazing.  The teaser.
31:24Anyway,  I did listen to it. You guys did a really nice job. It's I think it'll be  it'll mirror this nicely, but with a different focus, which will be awesome. um And you do an amazing job. So I'm excited to hear more about the women in agriculture.  Well, 2026 is the International Women in Agriculture,  sorry, International Year of the Women Farmer. So.
31:51Yeah, very cool. Yeah, I learned that on your podcast. So  women are starting to really step forward and we, Leah and I really wanted to die.  Cannot talk. Talk about it in more depth. There we go. Perfect. Another cup of coffee coming. That's what I hear.  Oh, for sure.  All right, Tracy, thanks for taking the time to chat with me. Yeah, thank you for taking the time. Have a great day.
32:21You, too.  Bye.
 

Cole Canyon Farm

Today I'm talking with Morgan at Cole Canyon Farm. You can follow on Facebook as well.
Built From Dirt : Farm School
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters.  I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Morgan at Cole Canyon Farm in Montana.  Morgan's been on the podcast a few times under a different name. So hello, Morgan, how are you? Hello, I'm doing good. Yes, most of your viewers know me as Groovy Grazers, which we're still doing, but...
00:26We had talked about last time trying to come up with a farm name. And so we finally figured it out and it's coal Canyon farm. So we're super excited to finally have that done after two years.  That's a long time to settle on a permanent name.  Yeah. Yeah. It was hard to name the land. We live in a very unique area. We live in canyons, ah but there is  a Canyon battlefield. We were trying to take on like not your atypical Montana name, you know?
00:55It definitely fits. We're excited. We got to come up with our brand next. That's going to be a nightmare. guess trying to get your brand registered here can be really hard and there's not very many like single stick brands left. So that's man. I hope that doesn't take two years, but that's next on her on the chopping block. So  I don't know that we have that situation here. When we started our place, we just picked a name, registered it with the state and that was it.
01:21So the name's okay. I can pick my name without registering that with the state, but I mean, we don't have cattle right now. We have horses um and the sheep don't have to be branded. So it's not like a super big rush, but if I'm going to have horses, especially being in Montana,  going missing is not uncommon or they get out.  Brand, brand, brand. get it. Okay. Brand. It's okay. Yeah. I'm talking like iron brand and like,
01:51either freeze dry or hot iron brand um because that's like one of the next big things that you do in Montana. You pick a name and then you figure out your brand  and people sell some brands for thousands of dollars if they're a single easy one, but it's only 250 bucks to register with that, I think with the state here. So that's not bad. That's one of the less expensive things  to have to do. Okay. Okay. oh
02:19because I'm looking at a computer and because I know Facebook, was thinking brand as in brand like, Oh yeah. I mean, your brand is so important though when you're a farm, right? Like that's why I built it through Groovy Grazers, even though we didn't have a name because I was like, well, this is how we're going to operate anyways. Like having some type of grazing or deal going on, whether it be sheep or whatever, I just knew we were going to eventually be a farm face. And so I didn't want to wait on that. So yeah, like if you're a farm and you don't,
02:49have a Facebook page, you don't have an Instagram.  mean, TikTok is one of those where I'm back and forth on if you really need it, but Facebook and Instagram for sure, or a website. If you don't wanna do social media, it's really hard, you gotta do more advertising and word of mouth, but having a brand is so important, like your colors, the way your logo is, can you put it on items? Like these are all things that people don't even think about, and that's actually why we did Cold Canyon Farm, and we built our, oh
03:18Facebook group, it's called Built From Dirt Farm School. Because a lot of people, they don't know how to do this. Yeah, I was going to ask you about the farm page too. I didn't do my weather update. what's, I usually open it with how's the weather. So how's the weather in Montana today? Oh man. So I mean, it dropped from like 34 down to one degree last night and we have like a powder.
03:43that came so like not feet of snow which can happen here but it's just the swings are ridiculous this year it's not good for the animals how's your weather? we are in a blizzard we are officially under a blizzard warning and you can't see to the road from my house and that's about 200 feet whoa look at this dedication though this is what it takes to like do any type of business right to be honest Mary like the fact that you're here still trying to do this is awesome you don't want to get you down
04:11Oh no, no, no, no. It always makes me laugh when I see blizzard warning because we've had blizzard warnings before and it hasn't really been a blizzard. This is a blizzard. Like this is a for real Minnesota blizzard. And I'm like, this is great. Our house is warm. We're having roast chicken and winter squash and broccoli for dinner. The dog is fine. chickens are all nice and cozy in their coop. We're fine. We're going to ride out to No problem.
04:40Yeah, when you have that. we went without power like two weeks ago for 36 hours. Oh, I traded which this is awesome about farming to we bartered six goats for a frickin wood stove, dude, like nice. Wait, because we don't have any heat in the house. We just have radiant floor heat, which is propane fed through our instant water heater. But if the power goes out, guess what? It does not work at all.
05:10So,  you we went 36 hours without heat. Now, granted, was in the  50s, but like right now, it's, I mean, it's probably less than 10 degrees outside.  And  the floors are keeping the house warm and the oil heater is, but if we went without power again, our house would be cold.  So we traded for wood stove. Because then once you're in that position of being self-sufficient, like you guys are with your generator and stuff, then you're like, okay, it's okay.
05:38uh Everything can burn down outside, but I'm okay right now. It's warm. It's good. We're okay. Yup. I will tell you something funny though. I said to my husband yesterday, I said, if you, need anything from the store, you should probably go now because it is going to be impossible to drive by nine 30 tomorrow morning. And he said,  Oh no, we're fine.  And then he got up this morning, grabbed his coffee and he was like,  I'm going to need to go to the store. And I was like, for what? And he said, sugar, we're almost out. And I said, we have enough sugar.
06:07to last for at least a day and a half. I said, it's gonna be snowing by the time you're ready to get out. I said, do not, do not go anywhere. It's gonna be bad.  He's like, okay, we'll see. And then it was snowing by 9.30, I think. And  he looked outside and he said,  yeah, I think we have enough sugar to last us. I was like, yeah, I think so too. In that moment when you're like, I told you so.  I didn't say it. I tried really hard.
06:34to say that out loud because it's really insulting and he gets really offended so I don't say it but I think it really really loud.  Okay so that's the weather update it's blizzarding here it is not blizzarding where you are that's good yeah  and you have all kinds of things going on since I talked to you only like a month or two ago. Yeah pivots right?  Big pivots so tell me. So no more throwing spaghetti at the wall.
07:00that like, you know, we kind of talked about that last time we were like, we're just gonna kind of throw it and see what works there. And  really just spent like the last month since we talked, making some hard cuts, the goat market is down, sheep market is stable, the cattle market is insane, right? Like it's high, but it's dropping again. And so just trying to figure out like where
07:24Where do we fit? We're staying at the property. So that helps a lot to write. We know what's going on.  Um, I think the last time we spoke, we had one horse, maybe two horses.  had the fillies. Yeah, we just had, yeah. So we had the new Philly, which is a paint,  um, Betty. And then we had Bambi, my husband's $100 BLS  Philly. And then I traded my six year old gelding, um, with a gentleman who really needed a mount.
07:51This was before the horse herpes outbreak, EVH, which was turning neurological and killing a bunch of horses within 12 hours.  I traded because one of his horses had passed away, uh my six-year-old gelding for a Kiger Mustang. I have uh three young fillies. One is going to be two this upcoming year.  And then I have the two that are turning one on January 1st.
08:16Quite the young gang here, which is fine. That's why we were kind of talking about branding in the beginning because I want to make sure if I'm gonna put all this time and money into them I have a marked em as mine  and We came up with farm school. There's a lot of downtime in Montana  and We've thrown a lot of spaghetti at the wall. So one of the things about Cole Canyon farm is that you should know we're working  Actively on our farm as a family. We're diversified
08:44farm, so not all of our streams of income come from what we produce. And it's not a hobby farm.  when we last talked, Groovy Grazers is 100 % a hobby farm. It was not making hay. It made half the hay this year that it needed to. I was working my body to death. think  the hustle culture in farming and homesteading needs to stop. You need to work when you're rested and inspired, and you need to
09:14rest when you're tired, which is hard to say, but in the last month, I've taken three days off  and I have literally transformed our whole farm into what I've been dreaming and kind of alluding to in our last conversations over the few podcasts we've done is that this is what we wanted. We wanted to be able to educate the public ah and build systems from scratch. on  on very low income, I think we see too many Instagram farms where these people
09:44have made six figures doing something else, now they get to Hobby Farm. That's a Hobby Farm.  A real working farmer is very different. You know, we've talked about finances, we've talked about how do you decide what's working and what's not. And I think that Andy and I have thrown enough spaghetti at the wall that we can help others. uh My big girl job before  I became a fully disabled veteran was working at Intuit. I sold accounting software. So all I did for
10:1210 hours a day was pick apart other small businesses. And I really loved auditing the farms,  not auditing their numbers, but auditing their systems, figuring out what's working for them, what's not working for them, where might there be uh fat that they can trim off their bills, like all of these things are where my passion came from and why I was so good at selling QuickBooks accounting software.
10:37I mean, I was top 10 % in the first six months. It was almost unheard of what I was doing. And it was because I had such a passion for helping people figure it out. So was like, well, how can I take that passion and still help other people? And that's why we made Bill from Dirt Farm School. You know, it's practical education for new homesteaders, single income families, because I think that's an untouched area in our industry. Nobody wants to talk about one income.
11:04Women starting over that are trying to homestead by themselves on low income and really honestly just folks tired of working themselves broke like that's that's farm school Nice  nice Did you say that you you hired a coach did you tell me that yeah, so I actually hired a coach Which I think is a big thing. So that's what helped get me focused So like I'm not gonna sit here and say that I did
11:34all of this reorganizing on myself, what I did is I hired Melanie Greenenough.  She's been on multiple areas, you know, lots of different podcasts all over the world actually. And I got hooked up in one of her free trial classes and I sat down and it was all about how to brand, how to make sure that you're using your time wisely, all these things that I knew how to do, but I needed a system put in place.
12:04So  I thought about it and I was like, well, I can do this with farms. I may be not good at helping other people set up like a networking  or setting up. I mean, she is in the networking space, but that's not all she's doing. She's actually teaching me how to run my business and where to figure out when to hire like employees, when to. um
12:29Like when to have somebody that's more specialized because you could be doing other things. So a lot of this is us going back to the education because she's like, you guys have so much life experience. We have  Andy, my husband, who  is  absolutely an expert in living organic soil on the biomes of dirt and stuff. And she's like, why are you guys not spreading this information farther than just Billings, Montana?
12:57And was like, yeah, I guess I never thought about that. Like, do people really want to take online classes? Are they really doing that? And I guess because I'm so  adverse to being  online because I worked from home for many years, actually, way before COVID, I did  a little bit of online work that I was like, well, people want to get out and see people. But that's true.
13:22But there's not a lot of people educating others because it's like this gate kept secret. Like, yes, there's some knowledge that in farm school will charge for, but not everything has to be charged. It's all about making a community.  And so that's what Melanie brought us to is like Groovy Grazers is great. But when we do the ROIs and we do the projections, it's just not going to work when I can't sell a Nigerian dwarf that's clean tested  and could be papered for $50.
13:53Yeah. Yeah. There's no way, but I needed somebody  that was above me to say like, Hey, not above me, but somebody that worked in multiple business spaces to be able to say, this is just, here's some direction. like the coaching is definitely a huge part of why I've gotten focused because I needed that check of like, Hey, this is
14:19The way you're doing right now isn't sustainable for 15 years with my body. It's not. Like  I am disabled even though I don't look like it all the time. I have problems and I'm starting to slow down. My whole dream was to do goat milk, right? To milk the goats. Now we're doing sheep because sheep market is more level and it's multiple streams of income.
14:45So that's all I needed somebody was like Melanie to sit down and also inspire. So I think a lot of people forget how inspiring it is when you have a group of like-minded folks who all want the same thing. Like it's powerful, it's vibrational. If everything has a vibration to it, if you are low, you know, low hanging fruit that's vibrating low.
15:11your life is just gonna bring in chaos. But if you're around other people that are successful and trying to be successful, even if they're not in the same industry as you and if they are even better, but it brings in this like, okay, I can do this.  You don't feel so alone. And that was why I decided to do coaching this year is because we live rural Montana. If you can hear the ticking in the background, that's the one I apologize. It's making our vent go, but. uh
15:40We're in rural Montana. I don't get out of the house often. I'm a homeschooling mom, but there's ways that I can connect with other homeschooling moms. So that's why there's been so much change. And I think sometimes people need to understand that getting a coach doesn't mean that somebody is telling you how to run your job or how to become a brand. It's just direction. And that's what the farm school is built on. It's just trying to give people direction. Yes. And having a coach.
16:10It gives you direction, but it also lets you see what you're doing from someone else's point of view. Yeah. She can use strong points. didn't even think of Mary. Yeah. You can't see it the way somebody from the outside can see it. Yeah. She was like, Morgan, get online, start educating, make a Facebook group so you don't feel so alone out in the middle of nowhere, Montana.
16:36and connect with other homeschool moms that are in the same boat as you. Find other veterans, find other people that feel like they can't do this. That's why it's called built from dirt. We are built from dirt. There's not high revenue streams coming in on this farm. We are trying to do this as little debt as possible. I have less than $7,000 in debt other than my truck.
17:00which yes, that is 45. Everyone needs to understand trucks are not cheap anymore. That's an F-150. And then we have, of course, our house note, but those are have-tos to survive. You've got to have at least one working vehicle and a home. Yep, absolutely. To even homestead. Yeah, yep. I am so excited for you that you're going to go in this direction because you have the best energy. Like every time I've talked with you,
17:28You sound so full of positivity and good ideas and you're so willing to help. Of course you're going to teach. Yeah. And like that was her whole thing. She was like, Morgan, you are a little fire. Go light other people's fire. Essentially what she told me and like doing the consulting, the one-on-one and farm audits. Like we're going to help people with land, but no clear plan. Right? Like we've done it. We've,  I've done multiple.
17:55of places, I had a small micro farm with my ex-husband  and we were planning that. That was in Louisiana. I farmed a little bit in Texas. I grew up in Texas, ah you know, in the horse industry. I lived in Arizona trying to farm there  and then I've come to Montana. So I've been in a lot of different areas. ah You know, this is going to help people that are bleeding money on feed and animals because it's really hard to understand when you're just starting out.
18:23what goes into an animal. Like it's more than just the feed, the minerals, the medication. It goes into time. It goes into hoof trimming. It goes in to water if you have to haul it or owning a well and maintaining it. Like there's so many things that people don't realize and really just new farmers that are too overwhelmed with too many ideas. Cause like you said, when you have a coach, they stand back, they see all the good and
18:51And let's be honest, the bad that you may not see.  And they're able to gently tell you, in a very  polite way, this is what I'm seeing, and then directionally point you. And I think that comes from the way humans used to live, know, hundreds of years ago, there was always like, you know, the elders that would kind of help out the youngins and help point them in the right direction. And so most coaches are going to be older than you. Some might be younger, but you got to look at their life experience.
19:21You know, we're going to be able to help people with their livestock based on the acreage, the time, their physical ability, their cash flow, right? Like one of the things I'm really good at doing is looking at history, computing it into like some graphs and really taking a look at it and then also being able to understand grazing. OK, if you have this many head of cattle, this is where you live.
19:47take a picture of it, go cut me a one by one square and bundle that up. How much hay do you have in there? How much grassland do you have in there? I'm gonna be able to give you an idea.  I'm not saying that I'm gonna change somebody's life just by consulting them. I'm saying that I'm gonna give them the right tools and help them see the things they don't see. There's a lot of things, turning animals into meat, breeding stock, fiber.
20:15You can turn it into your own classes. I'm going to host a whole, like, probably a six month course on how to do a petting zoo. I did really well with Groovy Grazers. I do daycares for $2.50 an hour. There's nothing secret about it. You can go on my website. $2.50 an hour is what I was charging in the beginning  and I didn't do it with any employees. If you had employees that leaves room for it, right? So ethically,
20:42Treating yourself and your employees is a thing. Like you  are an employee of the farm.  Teaching people how to do tours of their property. I've had so many people out here. Now I haven't been charging for this because our property is a little crazy right now. We're overhauling completely, but I like having people come out here because it's helping hone in my skills. So then when we do tours, we're gonna have a whole plan. There's a farm, TNC Farms out here. I'm gonna have to try and see if...
21:12I can get you to interview Bridger because he is just, that young man is so brilliant,  absolutely brilliant on uh how to rotationally graze, but they do a wool festival  and they do  a pumpkin patch at the end of the year and they do tours and they have big homeschool groups come in and like there's so many things people don't realize that you can do without having to even sell an animal. There is income and you have to have multiple streams.
21:42when you're a farmer because it's not good enough if you just have a day job and then it brings in a few hundred bucks a month. I mean that's a hobby.  Yep. Absolutely. You  definitely get me his contact information because he would be really fun to talk with.  Okay. Well, it sounds like you have a lot going on. There's a couple of things I want to tell you about that  is here.  Number one, I am an award winning podcaster officially.  I saw that.
22:11Congratulations. I'm so excited because I've been on the show, what, two years now? Yeah. And like, I remember you're like, one day I'm going to get recognized for doing this and look at you. Like two years is awesome, Mary. Congrats.  Well, thank you. And I want to I want to tell you what it is because not everybody who's listening knows about this yet.  It's the Corporate Visions Media Innovator Awards 2025.
22:36And I got sustainable living podcasts of the year 2025 USA because they're based out of England. That's so cool. That's even cooler that you have like an English following like being worldwide. Like that is really cool. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. It's so crazy to me. I they emailed me and they were like, do you want to be part of the pool for this this prize? And I was like, what do need to do? And they were like, fill out this form.
23:05So I did and I told them about my podcast and I won this award and I was like,  I'm not even sure what this means, but I think it's really cool. No, it is cool. So what are your next steps with this award? you  going to do a different, like what  all is coming from getting this award that you're going to do? I have no idea. I just think it's super awesome, nifty that I want it. And then the second thing that I wanted to tell you.
23:32is I'm starting a second podcast for sure. Yeah.  It's called Grit and Grace in the Heartland Women in Agriculture. Oh, I love that.  And I will definitely talk to my co-host about having you come visit with us because I think that would be really fun.  Yeah. My co-host is a lady named Leah and she is Clear Creek Ranch Mom on Facebook. Okay. And she has the biggest heart. She is a fifth-generation
24:00fifth generation cattle rancher with her family. love that.  And she also had worked with the USDA, I think, for grants. Oh, that's awesome. People have no idea about grants.  Uh huh. And she's just fabulous. And we've talked like three or four times on the podcast episodes over last two years. And  I said, we never get to go deep enough. I said, do you want to be a cohost with me on a second podcast? And she said, give me a week to think about it. And I said, okay.  And I
24:30hit her up exactly a week to the day and said, did you think about it? She's like, I really want to do it. So that's going to be coming out the first full week of January.  Oh, I'm so excited for you. Like, I can't wait to just even listen to that podcast. it's just so cool to see women stepping into this place of like, yeah, we're here. We've been here the whole time helping people, know, helping our husband farm.
24:59And now we're going to talk about it because back in the day men were hunters and women sat around and got to socialize, right? And took care of the babies and made the food. Yeah, we did everything social, right? In a group and men had to go off and they were silent, right? Hunting in the woods  and to see women stepping into this like we're going to gather again, we're going to get women back together and we're going to make clear
25:28clear path for the next generation. know, Leah, right, is her name. She's a fifth generation farmer. Yep. She's like, guess what? I see so many I bet you she would even confirm it. She sees so many first generation farmers. And that's probably a lot of her drive is like, I want to help these new people. like, we're gonna have like words between humans is such a real thing, especially when you have, you know, artificial intelligence,  when you have people that just
25:58we'll kind of write whatever.  You know, it's hard to know  what's real and what's not anymore. So being able to discuss with other people, even by phone or by virtual video is so powerful. And then to have a podcast that's on the same vibrational as everyone else,  you're only gonna raise your listeners to be better farmers.
26:23but you're also gonna have all these people, women specifically, right? That are gonna come to you guys that are gonna say, hey, I wanna share my experience.  Exactly, yes. Yes, and what's even better is 2026 is the International Year of the Woman Farmer. Did you know that? Yes, that's why Melanie was like, you gotta step into this.  Like step into it.
26:46did not know about that until after Leah and I decided to do this together. And I saw it, I was like, yes, great timing.  Oh man, see your internal instincts are just so, they're spot on, right? Like you are empathic with your listeners. You can hear our woes and you can hear the women that are like, there's not a lot of support. When I go talk and I have nothing against male farmers in this sense, but sometimes when I go talk to them and I have a throat tattoo for the listeners that don't follow me on Facebook.
27:16Um, and it's flowers, it's dainty, Geo- like shapes, nothing crazy, right? No like skulls or anything on my throat. They look at me like I'm crazy. um I have to like almost win their trust over by like giving them like, oh, you know, this little insight tip about being a farmer. And then they're like, oh, she's cool. She can vibe. And it's like, I could vibe with you the whole time. I just had to win you over.  And
27:44When I speak to a woman farmer, they're like,  no, they just listen to you. They understand you. There's no question of who you are because they've experienced it themselves. And like, I get it. There's a lot of women that come into farming and they are, they think they're tough enough to do this.  And you know, farming is not, it's not for the weak. It is not for the weak.  It's really hard.  My friend Nicole, she's somebody else that I want you to interview. She's a farrier and works with the Amish.
28:13Um, in a horse breeding program, she had to deal with one of the old guys we had taken on. He's he choked the vets out there right now, putting him to sleep.  Um, and she was out there all night long with him in the middle of the blizzard. had, you know, they live an hour away from us. So where they are, there's like six foot plus feet of snow. I'm not even kidding you in Red Lodge right now.  Um, and she lives out there. And so she was out  all night with that horse. Just sitting there.
28:41because no vet could get to him until 12 o'clock today. That's the reality of farming though. And so I'm excited for this because I think that so many negativities happen in farming that it can get people really down. So if we can get a group of women on a podcast talking about the positives,  encouraging each other, not being Instagram fake where we act like everything's peachy on our farm, right? We talk about the reality of farming.
29:08then we're going to see some major breakthroughs in our industry and we need them. I'm actually a wholesale dealer for AgriBest. That was something else that happened. um They  do Redmond, Sweetlix products. Those are products  for horses, cattle, sheep.  It's all mineral based. um And being in that industry, I'm very far and few between. And so I think it's awesome because I am going to go listen to your podcast.
29:36with Leah, I can't wait. Like, sign me up. You couldn't sign me up any quicker to just listen to it because... it was already out, you'd be like, hold on, I'll come back in half an hour, Mary. Let me go listen to the first episode. No, seriously, because  I think women...  I don't think... I'm not going to say they're smarter than men because I don't speak like that, but I think women are able to  meticulate their words better.
30:05I don't even know or articulate. Sorry. I can't think it's been a long long night But like women are just able to use their words better to tell a story So women women are the communicators and I will tell you how I know this for sure  Did you know that  men  out? Outdo women in podcasting, but most of the men fall off  they suffer from podfade and the podcast disappear but
30:33Wow. tend to hang in longer because they are the communicators. That's cool. See, I wouldn't have known that. like, that's interesting because that is true. Like me and my girlfriends, when something goes wrong, we call each other. Yeah. But when something goes wrong with men, they just text. They don't even text each other. Like they're just like, it's OK. They'll they won't question why I'm even here. And you're like, what do you mean? Like  if that was another woman, we would absolutely question why we hadn't heard from them.
31:02Mm-hmm. Yeah, the only time a man will ask for help is if it's a dire emergency. Yeah, yeah, men are so stubborn  in that sense. so I think that next year being a women's agriculture,  I'm sure a lot of your demographic is women, right? Because like women attract women  in podcasting.  Actually, it's not.  Really? You are going to die on this statistic. I looked the other day  on my Facebook page, mine.
31:32and Tiny Homestead podcast one. 56 to 60 % men listeners. was like, are you kidding me? That's interesting. I guess I need to look on Cole Canyon farm and Groovy Grazers and see what my statistics are. I haven't in a while, but yeah, that's really interesting. I think because it's easier to listen. Maybe if you're a man to like women talking, cause we paint the full picture. Maybe I don't know what it is.
32:01So interesting. Maybe some of your listeners, if you're a man and you're listening, can you chime in on the homestead page on like, do you listen to more women or men podcasts? That would even be a cool poll for you to do. Yeah, it absolutely would. OK, Morgan, you know, I try to keep these to half an hour. Yeah. So the first episode of the new podcast will be out Monday of the first full week of January. So two Mondays from now.
32:31And it's only going to be a one week,  one a week release. So one episode a week  for a while. But yeah, very, very excited.  Where can people find you? Cole Canyon Farm on Facebook. Is that right? Yes, you can. And you can find us still Groovy Grazers MT  on Facebook. You can find Cole Canyon Farm on Instagram. And we still own  www.groovygrazors.com.  And
33:01We are doing a seed giveaway right now  on my built from dirt farm page  and some one-on-one consulting. So if you guys are looking for your group, then definitely add yourself in. We're going to be doing lots of freebie classes and courses, just getting the hive mind going. Okay. I will put the link to the new  group show notes for you so people can find the giveaway and get involved.  Thank you. As  always, people can find me at a tinyhomesteadpodcast.com.
33:29And if you want to support the podcast financially, cause I could use some help, um go to atanihomestead.com slash support.  Morgan, thank you for taking the time to catch me up on what's going on with you. Cause I saw stuff on Facebook and I was like, what is she doing now? I'm not sure about this.  Yeah. Thanks for having me. Thank you guys for listening.  I'm sure we'll chat in the spring sometime soon about all the new stuff we've been doing. We have to.
33:58That's all there is to it. We've got to make it happen. All right. Thank you, Morgan. Thank you.  Bye.
 

Moonlight Elk

Today I'm talking with Christie author of Moonlight Elk. You can follow on Facebook as well.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Christie Green, the author  of  Moonlight Elk,  One Woman's Hunt for Food and Freedom.  Christie is in New Mexico this morning. How are you, Christie? Good morning. I'm wonderful. Thank you for having me.
00:25You are so welcome and thank you for visiting.  love it when I get to people who are  into nature and also write books about it. um What's the weather like in New Mexico this morning? Well, it's unfortunately very warm and sunny and dry. We've had unseasonably uh mild weather. It's been in the high fifties and we haven't had uh much snow for a number of weeks. So it's really precarious here. It's not good when we don't have snowpack.
00:54But we're hoping for some form of moisture, at least in the new year. We'll see. I will keep my fingers crossed for you. And I wish I could send you all the rain we got this morning. Oh, man. I do, too. I have a friend up in North Dakota, and they get snow and those cold temperatures. And I wish they could just push it down here. Yeah, it was so weird. I was looking at my Facebook memories, because I look at them every morning, because I sit down with my coffee and scroll through Facebook to find people to talk to.
01:23looked at my memories and a year or so ago it was raining on this date as well. I'm like, okay, so is December 18th a rain day? Hmm. Yeah, interesting. It seems like it would be too cold up there for rain, but moisture is moisture. Yeah, I'm, I have an appointment tomorrow at 9 45 in the morning, half an hour from here and it's all wet out there. The temps are supposed to drop.
01:50hard this afternoon and it's supposed to snow a little bit on top of whatever freezes.  And it's not supposed to warm back up until tomorrow afternoon. like, I may not make that appointment. We'll see how the roads are.  Go slow.  Yeah. Making appointments in the Northern tier States in December or January, February is a real  iffy game a lot of the time.
02:15But it's fine. I love winter. Winter is my favorite. Well, fall is my favorite season, but I love winter because it's when we all kind of cocoon and  get cozy and eat really good food. So that's right. That's right.  All right. So Christy, tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do.  Well,  I  am  55 years old  and  I am originally from Alaska and now I live in San Diego, New Mexico. I've been here for
02:44let's see, 28 years or so. And pretty much my whole career as I'm a landscape architect and I'm also an author and a designer and my work revolves around food and cultivating connection to each other and to place through the catalyst of food. And so in my work as a landscape architect, I focused on
03:10building soil, harvesting water, and growing heirloom varieties of food for  people, like in the homes, but also in larger kind of contexts like housing developments and public spaces. And then I also work with native plants  and um doing like passive water harvesting landform grading techniques like berms on swales and bio-swales and things like that. And then uh I am a hunter. uh
03:39As some people say, an adult onset hunter, started hunting when I was 40. And the original intent was to harvest my own meat, right? So I was growing all this food for myself and for other people. And I thought, well, what about, you know, meat? Why couldn't I hunt as well, you know, to fully round out this sort of self-sufficient way of gathering food.
04:08I thought I was going to get food, so to speak, and what I ended up finding was this revelatory new relationship to place  and to myself, really,  through the animals and through the hunt.  So I started writing about  those experiences with the animals here in New Mexico and other places too, but mostly here  in the West with elk and deer and turkey. And these  stories ended up
04:37becoming this compilation of braided essays and then a whole braid of a book,  which is Moonlight Up, which was published  last September. Very nice. um You said self-revelatory regarding hunting. give me a couple examples of that.  Well,  what I didn't realize, so I'm a mother and at the time my daughter was five  and  I was always, you know,
05:05responsible and on. Like had to be home, you know, make food, go pick up my daughter from school, you know, attend a business, you know, very scheduled,  loaded life in terms of obligations, you know, and all of those I loved, but em I didn't realize  how  off balance I was in terms of my own unscheduled time and the freedom that that uh
05:33affords like the feeling of being unencumbered.  And when I went hunting, it was the time I could be wholly  my own self without attending to anybody. And it was actually for lack of a better way of saying it, the time hunting was when I could become my own  animal, I could be as animal me as the animals were themselves. Because, you know, when hunting, you have to kind of become
06:02that animal and understand how they move, what their habits are, where they're spending time, where they're crossing, all of that. So it was like I got to shed  all of these layers  of the human world and become wholly immersed in the animal world. And when I got a taste of that, I just wanted more and more of it because then I got to actually listen to myself, my own desires, my own inclinations in a way,  you know, like follow my nose.
06:32And that's just become an essential part of my life that has translated into my regular sort of scheduled at home work life in  knowing how to listen to my body,  listen to my own instincts and follow my own way.
06:50That is amazing. That's beautiful.  And the one thing that I will say about being a parent, especially being a mom,  is for me, I've  raised four kids, birthed three, have a bonus child from my husband, which is great.  And uh my favorite moments of being a mom, and people are like, I don't know why I would be so bored, but I wasn't bored,  was from the moment I got home with that baby for the first three months when
07:20when you just cocoon in and you  focus on getting to know this little person that you brought into the world and you attend to them.  And you attend to yourself too, because if you can't be there for you, you can't be there for a baby. But  it's very baby focused and people come to visit  the baby. mean, they'd say they're coming to visit you, but they're coming to see the baby.  It's this very nurturing, very calming, very
07:49animalistic  experience because  animals are very attentive to their babies. I mean, you don't think that they are because  wild babies are born ready to go, most of them.  But if you watch a mama deer,  she is  very attentive with her fawn.  So the one thing that I will say though is once that baby becomes a toddler,  it is time for mom
08:17to take some time for her and hopefully sooner than that, but definitely once they start to walk  because you cannot lose yourself in your children.  It's not healthy.  No, it's true. We have to be our own individual selves. And it is interesting like that, those first moments  and days and weeks and months after the birth that
08:46I feel the same like what you're saying that the clock goes out the door.  It doesn't matter. Any sort of routine doesn't matter because everything revolves around the body and the bodily needs  of that baby. So it is like this  sort of whiplash,  yank into a different world, a different uh realm of that very animalistic child, because the child isn't operating from the mind of
09:16you know, a rationale of,  what time is it and what am I supposed to be doing? It's all driven by the visceral, by the needs. yeah. Yeah. And the other thing that I want to throw in here really quick, because you hit all the buttons for me with this, um is when you're a new mom, like when you have that first baby,  you have got to ask for help.  I didn't know that.
09:41I didn't ask for help. was really lucky. I lived in an apartment building and I knew my neighbors.  And my first child was a girl,  the only girl out of the four kids. I was 20 and she was teething and she was having a very hard time with teething and she would cry and scream and cry and scream.  And one of my neighbors knocked on the door and I opened the door and I hadn't slept in three days, you know, up with baby all night.  And she said, can I hold her?
10:11And I said, she bothering you? I'm really sorry. She was like, no. She said, you need sleep.  She said, she said, has she been fed? I said, yeah. She said, when was she last changed? I said, half an hour ago. She said, okay, I got it from here.  Go lay down, get some sleep.  Your daughter and I are going to get to know each other.  And I was so grateful because it had never occurred to me to ask for help. So anybody out there who's a brand new mom who is drowning, ask for help. People want to help.
10:41No, it's true. need that community, not respite.  Yes, absolutely. So, sorry, I didn't mean to get all weird about babies, but I don't know, you hit a button this morning for me and I was like, oh, there are things people don't know about having babies that are very important. oh Okay, so I am not a hunter, but my parents both hunt  and I got taught by osmosis how to hunt.
11:10One of my favorite memories  of the hunting season  is my dad would get up early in the morning and he would get all his stuff. He'd get all his stuff set out at night, but he would pack everything up the next morning really early.  And he would always clean his guns before hunting season started.  One of my favorite scents on earth is gun oil.  Oh, that's funny. Positive association, huh?  Oh yeah. Yep. Absolutely. And my mom hunted too.
11:39And I've told the story a couple times in the last six months. It's really weird. But she actually got a doe when she was very pregnant with my sister. And she's so proud of that. that she went when she was pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were so able when we're pregnant. I I worked almost up to the day my daughter was born. I was out in the garden and hoisting and shoveling and all kinds of things. It's like for most of her human
12:09lineage, we were out working and hunting and doing all those things. weren't, you know, sitting on the couch waiting for the baby to be born. We had to survive, right? Yep, exactly.  So, so having said all that, I learned about hunting because my parents did all the things and talked about it ad nauseam for a month before hunting season started.  I cannot break down a gun. I will be honest, it's not my thing.  And  I don't hunt.
12:38I  love the process of looking for animals in the woods. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. That's the hunt. Hunting is more hunting than killing, that's for sure.  Yeah, that part I love and I'm really good at it. Like I can spot a deer before seasoned hunters spot a deer because I understand the shape of their body and how they move.
13:03And I just, love being in the woods, but the idea of taking a creature's life when I don't need to eat that food, I just can't do it. I cannot do it. It kills me. Just the idea of it. And I am all for people hunting. think it is an amazing, I don't want to say sport, I don't know, endeavor to hunt and kill and use an animal. It's not for me.
13:32No, that's,  there's a lot of feelings like that. think every, every feeling and response  around hunting is valid. don't, um, I don't need other people to hunt. I don't need other people to agree with how I hunt or to want to.  I feel like we all have our own ways. And I think the most important thing that any of us can do is to pay attention to and honor what we, um,
14:02desire and what we respect in our own ways. think m part of what's interesting to me in this book and Moonlight Elk and some of the traveling around doing book readings and events is uh the questions I've gotten from people. And some people  are hunters, of course, and want to talk about hunting stories and  the details of those hunts and the animals. Some people aren't hunters and feel strongly against it. ah Ask me things like that. Well, how could you do that? How could you take a life when
14:31We have plenty of domestic meat we could be eating. And some people want to say, wow, you really inspired me. I want to learn how to hunt. Will you take me? So there's, you know, every range of experience and response. And I feel what is  so critical right now is to be open to the conversation and to be open to the questions and the dialogue. feel like uh adhering to a particular polarized perspective or only one view or one side.
15:01is uh destructive, we have so much more in common than we don't. And I'm just really interested in learning how to make connections with people in all the ways that we do  share in common, like what values do we hold in common? And that there are more, I just so believe that there are so many more um connections than disconnects, you know? And it's just been  interesting that through hunting, is a,  people have very strong opinions about it.
15:31practice, you the animals, also like, you know, brought up guns. There's a whole lot of  feeling around guns. And I agree. I feel like we should be talking about those  points of view  and  options and perspectives. And that's one of the biggest gifts of having written this book  is the,  just right now we're having this conversation, being able to be in dialogue with people and, and, and allowing myself to be open  to hearing new perspectives.
15:59And I feel that for me, what's most important  is that there's respect. I mean, I don't expect anybody or need anybody to agree, ah but I do want respect going both ways  and  not even understanding. don't think that's one thing it seems like when people, you know, get in conversations like, I'm going to keep talking until you understand.  I don't actually feel that. I don't need that. think it's...
16:26I don't need to be understood. don't need to be agreed with, but I would like to be respected and vice versa. You know, it's just critical for who we are. We're all on this earth together. We have to get along. We just have to. Yeah. Right now, especially. My goodness. It's been a heavy, heavy six months. I talked to Joel Saliton, the renegade rebel farmer, whoever he is. The other day. Yeah. Yeah. He's such a nice man.
16:56And I was going to ask him about the cost of beef prices and the whole snap benefits fiasco that is going on. And just before I hopped on to talk to her, was like, I don't want to talk about those things.  It's too much. It's too heavy. Everybody is feeling this and we need to talk about something positive. And I asked him before we started talking, I said, can I just ask you where you've been this year,  what you've learned, what surprised you? Can we just talk about
17:25positive things just for a little bit. And he was like, absolutely.  And it was so good. I was so thrilled to just have something positive to chat about, you know? Yeah. No, he's, he's so inspiring. He's been in the, he's been like this pioneer in the, the food industry for decades.  And I remember years ago, I used to work for the Bioneers and he was one of the speakers at the conference  and
17:53just how revelatory his practices are with, you know, rotational grazing and cover crops and just honoring the animal.  as even raising them as a domestic food source, knowing full well, of course they're going to be killed and  eaten, but to  try to offer the best life possible and also the most healthy practice for the land. So yeah, he's always been one of my heroes.
18:18Well, you will be thrilled to know that he is working on a new book this week and next week.  Oh, good. What's it about? I asked him the working title and he said, I said, it have a working title? And he said, oh, yes, food emancipation. And I was in my head, I was just like, oh, thank God. Oh, good. Yes. So I'm very excited. It won't be out for,  oh my goodness. think he said a year,  but.
18:43He had just started writing the first two chapters two nights ago. And I'm just like, yes, please write another book.  Oh, good.  So I um was just going to ask you if it's okay. mean, in your practice as a homesteader and your offerings  of, you know, eggs and breads  and  goods from the garden, like, have you noticed  anything changing or shifts in your customers? oh
19:13points of view or what they're asking for, what they're  hungry for, both literally and metaphorically,  what is the attraction  to what you offer and has that changed over time?  don't think it's changed over time. Now bear in mind, we've only been doing this for five years because we didn't have a homestead until five years ago.  But  what really has stuck out to me over the last year is
19:41We have not been able to keep eggs in our farm stand for sale  for more than 24 hours. We have 19 chickens  and  the eggs are gone every day because people know we have them and they come in and pay their five bucks and go home with a dozen eggs.  And before all of this bird flu  stuff started and um before inflation really hit hard in the last year and a half,
20:08People would stop by and buy eggs, but it wasn't like we have to stop by and buy eggs. Yeah. Yeah. I see.  And  here at our farm and here in Minnesota, the last two years have been really hard growing seasons. It was really rainy  in the spring for a month, both summers.  And it's been really hard for people to grow anything  like they had been. mean,
20:36Four summers ago, we had so many tomatoes, we were giving them away.  These last two summers,  two summers ago, we had hardly any tomatoes. It was just so wet and then it was so dry that the tomato plants didn't stand a chance. And this summer, this past summer,  summer 2025 was better and we did sell tomatoes and people were like, oh, thank God you have tomatoes.
21:02Because the thing that people want to do around here is can tomato sauce for the winter. Yeah. Yes. And so other than those two things, I mean, I think that people really realize back during COVID that it's a really good thing to know your neighbors and know your producers in the local area because you can't always count on the grocery store having the thing you need. Yeah. I feel like that changed everything.
21:32Yes, yeah, I do too. It's also, I feel like when I, for example, if I host  a  dinner or something and offer the meat that I've hunted,  there's such a different experience  knowing  the person  and the place  where that food source came from and even hearing the story about it.
21:58people like even people who've lived here, let's say in New Mexico their whole lives and know about elk or maybe where elk live don't understand that much about the animal and may have never even tasted the animal. So it's like offering a taste of the meat, but then also, you know, like if I have the elk hide or the antler or ivory, you know, tooth or something, it's interesting how  drawn people are to learn more and
22:27The meaning behind the food makes the difference in how they are connecting, I think, to that source of food, but then also the experience of what I call, this isn't original, I know, but like the experience of communing, know, it's real communion with each other.  And I feel like our culture is  starving for that, literally, because we've become so individualized, we rely on
22:53uh sources of whether it's food or anything else, we push a button on Amazon, get it delivered to our door. We relate to our devices more to each than each other. And I believe that coming back together through something as simple as  the egg or the meat or the apple is just critical right now. And it's a way of feeling at home,  I think in ourselves and with each other through food.
23:20Absolutely. We have become so disconnected from where everything comes from.  Everything comes from the earth.  We've become so disconnected from the earth. We think that everything comes from the store  or a delivery truck  and it doesn't. Everything starts with the earth.  Absolutely. The ultimate provider.
23:53It's um, it's so weird to me.  I grew up in Maine and as a little kid, I spent a lot of time outside in the trees, in the woods. And I used to go out to the edge of the swamp because there was a swamp behind our house  and every spring there were tadpoles. uh
24:19I was always so excited to get a jar and have little tadpoles  that lived in the jar.  And it's probably not very nice, the tadpoles, but my dad wasn't going to tell me no. And  watching those tadpoles develop from these little  fishy looking things, two full-fledged frogs with  legs and a tail, actually. The tail  is still there, it's just very short. um And that was my exciting thing in the spring.
24:48And then the rest of the summer was playing in the woods and gathering pine cones and acorns and making things out of them. And there were no tablets. There were no cell phones. was no,  there was, there was no internet. now kids don't do that anymore.  No, I know they're on their devices. I was just talking to a friend the other day saying, Oh, it breaks my heart that so many people on the earth have no reference of life without a device.
25:19You know, they  were raised with them  and I think it's  really too bad. know, like how do you undo that kind of programming and go back to something that's tactile and visceral and sensory, exploratory, all of that, like direct relationship to the earth. know, something's definitely lost, I think.  Yes, absolutely. And the closest thing I can think of at this point for kids
25:47is having a pet, an actual pet like a kitten or a puppy  and raising that pet from baby to adult pet.  Because dogs and cats are not, they're technology,  they're biology. Yeah, for sure. And then, you know, of course some kids do  live on a farm or do have gardens or do have close proximity to the outdoors.
26:15There's more familiarity and comfort with that. then some, you know, so the majority of the world's population live in urban centers. And, um you know, and there is some access maybe to something that is soil or green or water, but a lot less. So  I don't know. It's, it's  how do we, how do we foster connection and remember,  you know, really, I feel like it's a remembering where we came from and what's  essential in our own selves and our own.
26:45beings, like where are we rooted and how can we be rooted to the earth now given  all of these changes in the world? Well, you're doing a good job by writing the book and I'm trying to do a good job by sharing on the podcast.  And really, I think that  you have to be the change you want to see in the world and that sounds very trite and that is not my line. I don't know who said  it, but you're being the change that you want to see in the world.
27:14Well, it's just,  I don't know, living in  what I believe in. It's my own sanity, actually.  In some ways, it's,  when I feel my best, then I can be my best outwardly too. So just learning as I make my way for sure and trying to share what I'm learning.  Plus, I have more questions. I don't really have answers. I have more questions. So em I'm open to  exploring those with people because I think we're all hopefully trying to discover and to be better.
27:44Yeah, absolutely. And if you aren't, you should be. And  I don't want to direct people's traffic, but really just be the best you you can be.  So oh is this your first published book, Kristy?  It is my first. I have another that I just finished the manuscript. It's called Salmon Dreaming, Coming Home to Alaska. And that will also be published by University of New Mexico Press. And that'll come out in summer 2027.
28:12And then there's a third that's published by UNN Press that's coming out two years after that. So  I'm deep in the writing and loving it  and looking forward to sharing the second book, which takes place in my home state of Alaska.  That's exciting. ah I'm going to tell the listeners that the hardest part of writing a book isn't the writing the book. It's the promoting, marketing, and selling the book. It's definitely its own.  It's, you know,  it's a
28:43Something that I'll speak for myself, well, other friends of mine who are authors,  we're not good at that part of it.  And I didn't know how much, ah how much that is a part of the whole process that, you know, getting it out there and sharing it. And, and I just am very thankful for opportunities like this  to share the book and to reach audiences, you know, beyond my immediate network here. And  thank you for, for having me and for being.
29:13uh, let's see, interested in and honoring that Moonlight Elk is in the world.  Oh, I do. I absolutely do honor it because I'm in the middle of trying to write a book myself  and  it is a hard thing to do.  It is, I don't know how to explain it.  When it's going well,  nothing else is happening.
29:38You're in the zone.  The house could explode around you and you'd be like, Oh, what was that? Yes, exactly. But when it's not going well and you're trying to find the right sentence to convey the thing that's important for you to convey,  that's when it's tough. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's that flow state. And sometimes it's easier to tap into that than others. um But I don't know. I don't know if this is your experience. I feel like
30:08If I can just stay open, basically what wants to come through, it's almost like using me as  as a, um, as a conduit or catalyst, vehicle to get the story on the page. And I feel like when I'm open enough and not resisting or not trying to force it, then it, then it can flow more easily.  Yes. And I always have to remind myself of that when it's, if it gets frustrating, I get up and go do something else for a while.  Because then I stopped trying to force it.
30:38Um, so have you been doing any book touring? Are you just doing the things like writing blog posts and doing podcasts and things like that? No, I've been so fortunate to do some touring and I really like reading with other authors. So I got to do  reading here and in Virginia with a dear friend of mine, Erica Hauser, and her book is called The Age of Deer  and it was shortlisted for the Penn Award. oh
31:07And  so she and I have done a couple of readings together. She was in Virginia and I was also in Vermont. I got to do a couple of readings in Vermont  and I did a reading with my friend who is an author, Gretchen Legler, and she's written a couple of books. Her most recent book is called Woods Queer and she's in Maine. And so we got to do a reading in Rockland this past spring  and I've done different readings here in New Mexico.
31:35Yeah, so I've gotten to travel around, I love. And then also being part of these kinds of conversations  online has been really fun. And to meet all kinds of people, it's just opened up amazing different connections with people I didn't even know were out there and people doing such amazing work like you.  Thank you.  All right, Kristy, where can people find you and where can they buy the book?  Anybody can find me at KristyGreen.net.
32:02And then the book is available. It's distributed by Simon & Schuster.  You can find it at the University of New Mexico Press online.  You can order it anywhere. You would order a hard copy.  There's hardback and paperback books. And then anywhere you find your audio books, it's available on an audiobook form anywhere you would go  to find your own audiobook and then on Kindle as well. So you can pretty much find it anywhere. Fantastic.
32:31As always, people can find me at a tinyhomesteadpodcast.com. And if you want to support the podcast, you can go to a tinyhomestead.com slash support. Christy, I loved this. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me. Thank you so much, Mary. And I hope you enjoy the rest of the cozy season of dormancy. Yes. And Merry Christmas and happy new year, Christy. Merry Christmas. Thank you, Mary. You're welcome.
 

Polyface Farm - Joel Salatin on Food Emancipation

Today I'm talking with Joel Salatin at Polyface Farm. You can follow on Facebook as well.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Joel Salaton at Polyface Farms in Virginia in the United States. Good morning, Joel. How are you? Good morning. I'm very good. Thank you very much. What's the weather like there today? ah Well, last night it was down about
00:2915 degrees today. I think it's supposed to be a high of maybe 34, 35. And then drop down into 20s tonight. Tomorrow's going to be warm. It's going to be about a high of like 50 tomorrow. So. We're going to be warmer than you are in Minnesota today. It's supposed to hit 45 degrees today. Oh, wow. That's cool. That doesn't happen very often that we're warmer than Virginia.
00:58Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, uh, it, it's, we, we've been in a really, really cold, I mean, the river's frozen over. It's, uh, we've been in a really cold, uh, cold dip here lately. Yeah. I think the whole United States has been at some point in the last week and a half. It's been, it's been unbearably cold here. And I'm really looking forward to getting back into what we would consider to be temperate degrees here. Um.
01:27So I saw that Polyphase Farms is closed for the next week or so. Do you guys close for the holidays? Yeah, we do. We close for about two weeks. And that you got to realize much of many of our staff, we have a very, very young staff here. And so often they like to go to family over the holidays and things and New Year. we just, it's just the easiest thing is to just close for two weeks and
01:58Um, just keep a, you know, keep a kind of a core here to  do chores and feed cows and gather eggs and  kind of hold the ship together, uh, for, for a couple of weeks and let everybody,  uh, just enjoy. And then, and then those people that, put their hands up and say, I'll stay through Christmas. Then obviously they get there. They get there two weeks. One guy already took us two weeks back at Thanksgiving.  And, and then, you know, they, they, they,
02:28stagger out, you know, through January. you know, usually by the, by mid February, we're back at full staff and up and running, but these two weeks were pretty,  were pretty core. That's fabulous. And it gives you and your wife and your son a chance to maybe spend some time together as a family. Yeah,  some, although  I'm a bit of a scrooge, you know, we've done this all our lives and,  um, the, uh
02:58The holidays, you know, the work stays. So we end up picking up the slack because we live here. don't have to go  see family. know, we're here.  so we pick up a lot of extra work during the holidays. I'm actually,  what I've started doing in the last few years  is the holidays oh with the crew kind of down to core level.
03:26and not doing, not biting off any great big projects.  That's when I do my writing. So  yesterday I started on my next book and I'm almost  done with the third chapter. I got two chapters done yesterday. got, em I was trying to get my third one done this morning before this, but I didn't quite get it done. I have to finish after our call here, but  I'm hoping  to get this knocked out here in the next couple of weeks.
03:56And we'll be up and running. you have a working title yet? Oh yeah. The title is  food emancipation.  Oh,  awesome. Cause we need that real bad right now.  We do. We, we need it desperately.  And, you know, this,  I consider this, told Teresa this morning, this is probably going to be my, my single biggest contribution, I think to the culture.  And  of course she said, well,
04:26It's taking your whole life to get to this, you know, to get to this point.  but,  uh, this, this, the food freedom, the food freedom, I think is  the biggest issue we've got now agriculturally, oh uh, and, and in the food system.  And, um, so, um,
04:50I'm really digging into it. I'm excited about it. In fact, I couldn't even sleep last night. got two chapters done  and, um, um, I'm really excited about it and glad to be jumping in. The  big thing with a book, hard part, the hard part is starting.  And, uh, so yesterday when I got that first chapter done, I  was, I say, you know, I was on a roll  and, uh, and now I'm, I'm just really excited about.
05:20about knocking it out. Yeah, somebody told me a trick once that if you're stuck at the beginning, start in the middle. Like literally just get the words on paper and then you can move it around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's true. That's true. So, know, I have an outline, have an outline. And so I've got, you know, kind of the chapter, the chapter ideas, chapter titles,  and, know, they'll, they'll change and they'll morph and things. mean, a book kind of takes on its own.
05:49Uh, kind of takes on its own, uh,  uh, persona, you know, as you get into it and  new things come to mind and all that. But for me, I find that, that just sitting down and cranking on it and trying to get it knocked out on a couple of weeks, you know, a rough draft at least,  um, is the way to be the most efficient because it's often hard to leave it for a month and come back to it.
06:16You know, to know, what did I say this that I said, you got to go back and review. I can't remember where I put this in or that in. So, you know, if you just start and just, um, go through, you, it's a lot, it's a lot more efficient. Yeah. And if you stop and come back to it a month later, you've lost some of the momentum and the energy that you had for it. So that's right. So I, there's no, there's no energy like first energy.
06:44You know, if you've ever written something and then lost it on a computer, you know, hit a button and it all goes away. And you can never, you can never resurrect  the second  writing with the same energy as you did the first one.  No,  it's like new relationship energy. You know, when you meet somebody new and you're just learning about them and you're all excited.
07:09That's what happens with books and articles. It's amazing. I love it. I used to be a freelance writer and every time I would get into it, I'd start writing, come up for air two hours later and be like, oh, I was in the zone. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. That's exactly right. Zone.  Love that zone. And I actually would love to get back into writing, but I don't have time right now because I'm too busy  talking to amazing people like you every week. um So I was going to ask you about the whole
07:39cost of beef situation and the snap benefits fiasco and things are just so heavy right now. I would actually just rather ask you about what where you've been this year, what you've learned, what your favorite parts of the year were. So where have you been? Where have you traveled this year? Oh my goodness. I've been, I've been all over the place. Uh, yeah, I mean, I'm gone. I'm gone. don't know a third of it, a third of the time or more.
08:09Um,  I've,  I've,  I've do a lot of homestead homestead fairs.  Uh, so, you know, if you want to go around the country, you know, it's, it's, um,  it's a homestead festival in Columbia, Tennessee. That's about, you know, 6,000 people.  And then, uh, then you got,  um, Coeur d'Alene in Idaho. That's Melissa Norris's group. That'll be three or 4,000.
08:37And you got Ozarks, Ozarks  Homestead Conference with the  folks there. That's, you know, that's another whatever, three or 4,000. um Cheryl is the lady that does all that. Then you, you know, you have the Ohio Food Independence Summit. That's another three or 4,000. You got Homesteaders of America up in Front Royal, Virginia. That's  7,000.
09:07Uh, these, these homestead fairs are  huge. Then what's happening this year, for the first time, I really noticed it this year is I'm starting to do, um, 10 or 12 homeschooling conferences. It's like the homeschoolers have, have matured to, to move into the edu-, move into the food space beyond the education space. What I think there is that.
09:35You know, when you, when you try something alternative and you find it soul satisfying, you, you know, you come up from that experience and you say, wow, that was pretty cool. Uh, what else have I been missing? And so these homeschoolers, when they find, uh, homeschooling to be satisfying, uh, they start looking at food, at investment, at recreation, at
10:02uh, energy, you know, uh, all sorts of things.  And, uh, so I think it's a very, very natural permutation that the homeschoolers are coming to homesteading and, um they're just such a, such a fun bunch and, and I enjoy them a lot. So suddenly that, that has really blown open here in 2025  and,  and it's, it's pretty, it's pretty,  uh, it's pretty different. It's added a tremendous,  a whole new dimension.
10:31I have a question based off of that. um So are you going to homeschooling conferences or are you going to actually homeschools and talking to the kids too? Oh, no, no, no, no, these are conferences. Okay. I don't do this for free. No, no. uh I go to these conferences and these are state, you know, almost every state has some sort of state homeschool convention.  The biggest one in the nation is Florida.
11:00The Florida, and they all have different names, Florida Parent Educators, uh FPEA, Florida Parent Educators Association. ah You know, Virginia is a big one, but they're all over. And then there are, are uh overriding groups too. Like, ah they find it here, the great, great homeschool conventions. uh
11:28those they do about six a year around the country. so, you know, they're big, know, there are thousands and thousands of people and yeah, they're a lot of fun. Awesome. So what have you, what have you learned in 2025? Because you've learned a lot in your beautiful long life, but what surprised you this year?
11:58So this year, my epiphany was about halfway through the year.  And uh I've really become this voice of food freedom.  And  of course,  I've had the privilege uh of, for the first time in my life, being  seen by people in the political sphere, administration.
12:26Uh, as an asset, not a liability.  And so I've been able to  spend some time with, you know, RFK junior with people,  uh, you know,  close to him as well.  And, um,  and this whole, you know, food emancipation, this, this food freedom thing is, is such a, is such a big deal.  And, um, the thing that's  struck me about it.
12:54The epiphany I want to share  is all my life I've been. Whatever preaching, get in your kitchen. You know, if we want a different food system, get in your kitchen, get in your kitchen, buy whole foods. You know, don't buy processed, get in your kitchen and cook from scratch. It's never been easier. And you know, we've got Insta pot hot running, hot and cold water refrigeration,  uh, time bake  Insta pots, the bread makers, ice cream makers, you know,
13:24Um, get in your kitchen this summer. I realized after looking at what Americans spend on convenience food, 75 % of the retail dollar is convenience food. Um, and hearing RFK junior talk about ultra processed and, and all this, and this, the whole, the whole maha, I mean, the year started with Teresa and I being invited to go as guests to the, to the maha inaugural ball in DC.
13:54We'd never been to an inaugural ball. And so I had to go, you know, get a tuxedo and we had to, we had to go up there and froze our buns off. But, uh, we, you we went to that thing. And so what I've come to the conclusion is that I'm going to quit preaching, get in your kitchen. Now I still believe that I still think I'm not, you know, I haven't gone to the dark side, but what I'm suggesting is that that horse has left the stable.
14:23Americans,  until some catastrophe happens, Americans are not going to get in their kitchen. They're just not.  And so that leaves the convenience food option  as the single biggest category of food purchasing in the country. Now there's no reason why a convenience food, say, you know, a heat and eat
14:52frozen chicken pot pie needs to be junk. It can be good chicken, good carrots, good peas. It doesn't need monosodium  MSG in it. It doesn't need red dye 29. It doesn't need glycerin, antifreeze in it. know,  these 10,000 food additives that are in all these uh convenience foods that Europe only has 400 of them.
15:21They don't have to be there.  And so, so  I'm...
15:29And then you've got, you've got the farmers. There's  obviously you're watching these things too.  And, um, all the press on 2025 agriculture is negative. I'm the soybean farmers are going to lose a hundred dollars.  Uh, the tariff blowback is having this effect, that effect. Um, and of course, you know, when beef prices jumped, when they closed the border with Mexico and shut down a million, a million cattle coming into the country.
15:59That spiked the prices and then Trump blamed the farmers, cattle farmers for being greedy and selfish. Well, they didn't have anything to do with it. That only took him a week to backtrack from that. I think somebody got to him on that because they told him, look, Trump, you these farmers are the ones that got you in the White House. Don't you be bad mouthing the farmers. And so I am done.
16:29uh, trying to guilt people into getting in their kitchen. And instead I'm pivoting and saying, how can we get farmers  access to the convenience food market? That is, that is where the money is. That's where the food is. And there's no reason why it has to be junk food. It can be good food. And so hence food emancipation.
16:58Let's take the shackles  off our farmers and let farmers  access the food supply  and take the shackles off of the buyers who don't have choice. So both parties win if we take the shackles off. The only party that doesn't win  is the industrial commercial  food system that will be uh
17:28You know, that will have new competition in the marketplace. I love that you're pivoting and I do the same thing on my podcast. So I'm constantly telling people that if they want to save money, they should learn to cook from scratch and that it's better for them. And you're right. People don't want to take the time to cook. And it's so tragic. I love cooking.  spend, I spend an inordinate amount of time cooking and I enjoy it, but if you hate it, it's no fun. So.
17:58Or  if you're so far removed from it, you're intimidated by it. I'm meeting more and more people now who,  young,  you know,  twenties and thirties, who  are literally intimidated by the kitchen. I mean, they're scared of food. They've heard about, you know, whatever, uh disease and safety  and all this sanitation and all this stuff. And they're paranoid that they're going to...
18:25Um, make themselves sick or get some sort of disease because they didn't wipe the counter off well enough. mean, it  actually,  when ignorance, when ignorance finally hatches to its final uh destination, it turns from ignorance into paranoia.  And that's what we've got right now in the average,  uh, American home is literally food paranoia.
18:52They don't want to touch it. They want to open up a bag, stick it in the microwave  and, um, and eat it because they're literally paranoid of, of viscerally engaging in the food itself. And so unless and until that changes the desperate need, desperate need of both consumers  and farmers  is to enable us to easily transact food commerce.
19:22in that space without a million dollar facility and 10 bureaucrats breathing down our neck. oh That leads me to another question. I don't know what Virginia's laws are like regarding food production if you're not a business or a factory, but here in Minnesota, we're not allowed to sell anything from a home kitchen that requires cooling or heating. So
19:51We can sell cookies that have already been baked because you don't have to put cookies in a refrigerator or an oven for them to stay good. Shelf stable things are fine. But if I wanted to make a cheesecake, I cannot make it in my home kitchen and sell it. So what's Virginia's laws like? Yeah, identical, identical.  And most, most states are identical. There are now four states.
20:20that have  pretty effective cottage food laws. ah The best one is probably Maine. Second best is Wyoming. And in those states,  can uh produce any food in your home kitchen that you want to without inspection.  Now, the  ingredients in the food
20:49have to be legal. unfortunately, this means that if you make a  shepherd's pie, let's say with beef in it, the beef has to be from an inspected  source. Okay,  Once you have the beef,  you can open that package and make a shepherd's pie and sell it without inspection in Maine and Wyoming.
21:19So those  are huge wins  in this movement.  And  in fact, in this book I'm working on,  I'm going to oh put in the four states with these good  cottage food laws so that people can see the kind of language. So right now, the strategist that I'm working with, what
21:48the strategy seems to be, we, if we could get, you know, 30 or 40 states to adopt these, these food freedom laws, then, then what we could get, hopefully, would be a federal blanket. I mean, I'm, I'm after a, an amendment to the constitution of the bill of rights that basically
22:19Two consenting adults exercising freedom of choice to give their microbiome uh agency should be able to engage in a food transaction without asking the government's permission. Now,  I'm not saying that I should be able to sell it at Walmart  or export it to Sri Lanka and Vietnam. ah What I am saying is that  neighbor-to-neighbor food transactions
22:49among voluntary consenting adults exercising freedom of choice. And I know those are powerful phrases, but I use them on purpose.  It should not require a bureaucrat's permission to engage in a neighbor to neighbor food transaction, period.  When do you think this book is going to be available to buy? Because I can't wait to promote it.
23:15Yeah. So, uh, so I'm hoping to get it roughed out by the end, by, by the end of December. So I've got two weeks here and I'm cranking on it. mean, I'm, I'm every, I've got some other things I've got, you know, some podcasts I've got  a wood to cut and some other things to do tomorrow. We've got it. We've got a chip. So that Daniel wants me to go up and cut trees for him.  Uh, so, you know, I've got some things to do, but, basically,  uh, every spare minute I'm doing this, uh, I hope for this to be out.
23:44sometime late next summer, uh August, maybe something like that.  And, um, because I'm trying to, I'm trying to coincide it with some other fairly large,  um,  documentaries that are coming out on food freedom. There's a, there's a lot going on in Maha  and, and, and I can tell you, I was just up in DC on Monday night at, at, uh, at the Maha,  um,
24:14Gala.  And uh I mean, it was amazing. RFK Jr. was there and Lee Zeldin, uh Secretary of EPA  guy was there. uh Of course, you you had your regular uh group, know, CDC and  the new NIH administrator and all that.  that,  that
24:42basic movement, that basic movement um is a real catalyst, I think, for this issue because ah one of the big phrases that's  been used now is agency capture. And I think people are beginning to realize that the watchdogs,  people wanted the government to protect them.
25:10from those corporate interests that were hiding behind razor wire and guard towers in big industrial food complexes, whether they're,  know, canneries, uh know,  slaughter processing facilities or whatever. uh We didn't want a government bully big enough to look across the fence and protect our interests. And what they didn't realize was that  the government regulators  and the corporate interests were going to go to bed together.  That's what they didn't realize.
25:40And that reality  is really coming to light now  with, you know, Maha, with Moms Across Americas and Honeycutt. ah What these folks  are exposing  is pretty dramatic.  Well, I'm thrilled that this is going on.  This is a  movement now because it has been incredibly frustrating to me. I make a killer cheesecake,
26:09And I have my cottage food license or registration for Minnesota. can't sell cheesecake in Minnesota because it's cooked in my kitchen. I know that's minor. It's small. It's tiny scale. But if your book actually turns people to understanding that there's nothing wrong with what's cooked in a home kitchen, as long as that kitchen is like, you know, relatively clean and there's not dog and cat hair everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Well.
26:40So here's,  so the difference is the expectations. So, you know, when a food chain, when a food chain is opaque,
26:54Uh, there are,  there, there's a trust issue,  but when a food chain is short and relational, the trust goes way up. See the butcher, baker and candlestick maker, or in your case, I'll say the cheesecake maker. Yeah. You used to be embedded in the village as artisans as craft and, and, and their kids played with other kids in the neighborhood. They went to the same churches.
27:23They lived above their shops.  They didn't have employees only hanging on the door. People could come in, wander around the kitchen, know, look in the garbage can.  I mean, there was a transparency and an accountability that created the  vetting  procedure. But as food industrialized and  started hiding behind
27:53you know, industrial  walls, the public became paranoid of the food. think I already said that. and,  and, and, here's the thing.  Let's take  another way to say this is the Uberization of food. You know, if 50 years ago, somebody had come to you and said, uh, you know what?
28:21Mary, um, you know what? In, um, next week, you're going to go to, uh, Calcutta, jump in a car with a guy that has no chauffeur's license. The car isn't registered with a chauffeur agency and he's going to pick you up and you're going to say, take me to, you know, the museum, uh, at D street. And you're going to trust him to take you there.
28:49You'd have said, what are you crazy? Calcutta? No,  I'm getting a cab. I'm getting a licensed, you know,  chauffeur service. I'm not jumping in the car with some, you Well, that's exactly what happened. It's called Uber. And what made it possible was that the internet with real time, uh real time,
29:17vetting, know, one star, two star, three star complaints, whatever,  has, has  re-embedded the butcher  and the cheesecake maker.  I love that. uh In, in the global village with real time vetting.  And this is brand new. This is brand new.
29:44And I mean, the same thing can be said of Airbnb. know, who would have thought that in 10 years, we would double the number of hospitality rooms worldwide without driving a nail, making another room. Just the power, the power  of a transparent transaction enabled by a renewed democratized voice called the internet.
30:14And so here we are with your cheesecakes.  And if your cheesecakes aren't good, somebody's going to say, you know, Mary's cheesecakes are horrible. I would never recommend them. And you know what? You'll be out of business.  That'll go viral. But if somebody says, wow, these cheesecakes are unbelievable. Everybody should go buy those. You could actually have a side hustle. You could actually start a little business and,  and, make some money. and.
30:43And the point is that the internet is its own protective vetting device because it has resurrected the transparent village voice of yesteryear. Crazy how that works, isn't it? Yes, it is. I love it. I love it. All right, Joel. And that's why people don't need to be scared. I mean, I can hear people.
31:13Oh no, what if, if Mary's, you know, what if they're not good? What if they're not? Well, you know,  are you, are you, do you really think that you can trust a bureaucrat more than, than an artisan, a craft person, a cheesecake maker that you know, that you've asked around, Hey, what do you think about her? You know, what do you think about her situation? You've been to her kitchen?
31:42uh You know, is she clean? she good?  And this  conversation we can now have so easily and cheaply, we don't have to  use snail mail, we don't have to put a stamp on it,  is revolutionary in uh creating  self-policing within commerce.
32:12Absolutely. All right, Joel, I try to keep these to half an hour and we are there. So thank you for taking time out of your time off as it were. Chat with me again. I appreciate it. People can find you at Polyface Farm on Facebook and the website is polyfacefarm.com. Yes? Yes. Okay. All right. And as always, people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com. Loved talking to you again, sir.
32:42Thank you, it's a real privilege and an honor, Mary. And Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.  Same to you and yours. Have a great day.  You too, take care.
 

Hellfire Homestead

Today I'm talking with Shannon and Allen at Hellfire Homestead. 
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Shannon and Alan at Hellfire Homestead in New Hampshire. Good evening, you guys. How are you? Very good, actually, despite freezing. Is it super cold in New Hampshire right now? Yeah, we could kind of a little,
00:25cold snap going on so that makes for frozen water bottles and water buckets which is always a nightmare but yeah Minnesota's pretty cold too but not as cold as it's gonna be Saturday the high for Saturday where I live is gonna be minus one oh my gosh  and it's probably coming your way three or four days later so you I've given you a heads up oh
00:50Yeah, I know it's really hard with livestock because they've got to have fresh water whether you want to go out and break the ice and put water in or not. Yep. And we have quite a few different animals here. Okay. Well, tell me the first question I have is why is it called Hellfire Homestead? So, mean, oddly enough, it was sort of to weed out people that would be turned off by that name.
01:18I think, and feel free to interrupt me, dear. But I feel that like in recent years, you know, with the influx of TikTok and other various social media, not only is there a lot of information that's absolutely wrong about homesteading, survivalism, bushcraft, et cetera, but a lot of people into it are not multi-generational. And there's a lot of returning to sort of like bad
01:48Um, bad themes, I guess I should say as far as what we perceive to be gender roles in home setting and things like that on top of,  uh, just a lot of bad information in general, which I mean, as somebody who grew up in New Hampshire and  my family's been out here since the 1700s, um, ah I learned generationally how to can, um, how to keep meat clean.  Um, hunting was big in parts of my family. Um,
02:18And I just sort of like grew up in the woods, like a wild feral child. ah So,  you know, and then you, you know, you log on to like TikTok and you see like 25 year old kids like canning with, ah you know, jars they got, you know, spaghetti jars they got from the grocery store and saying this is viable. And it's like, no, that will kill you if not ruin your entire harvest. There's a reason our grandparents use ball jars. ah
02:46So that was part of it. And another part of it is that people are incredibly interested in what it is we do.
02:54just on the day to day, like they're interested in the farm, they're interested in the fact that we fill our own freezer with our own meat. They're interested in the fact that we do process the hides of the animals that we eat and kill. We have sheep. ah So, some of us being online was to satisfy the curiosity of our friends, but also to kind of counter some of these like...
03:20these ridiculous ideas that people who are not even generational farmers are starting to promote as good.  Uh huh. Good. I'm glad that you're, you're like standing up for that because you're right. There's a lot of crap  on the internet about what's safe, what isn't, what you can do, what you can't do. And I was grown up the same. I was brought up, sorry, not grown up,  brought up the same way you were Shannon. I spent so much time in the, uh, the woods and the swamp behind my house growing up in Maine.
03:50And  I'm 56, there were no computers, were no tablets, there were no cell phones.  Mom said, you ate a good breakfast, go play, don't come back till dark. And that's what we did. Yeah, was Gen X. So my parents were basically like, get outside, you're on your own until it starts getting dark. Yeah, me too.  And  I couldn't necessarily do that with my kids when I finally managed to find a husband who wasn't terrible and managed to stay with him.
04:19and lived in town because there weren't really any woods for them to go play in. So we would take them on the weekends and go hike trails in the area.
04:30Yeah, my son that way too. we, you know, when I was,  it took a while to get a farm in my first marriage. Um, and we lived in the city. We actually lived in Concord, New Hampshire.  Um, so like keeping that rural, that like, you know, that aspect of like self sustainability was a little bit harder.  Um, but you know, we did things like, you know, from a very young age, he was taught gun safety from a very young age. He was taught at least some of the basics of.
04:58killing and cleaning your own food.  And then as we got our own farm  with my ex-husband,  we started raising rabbits and doing things like that. So, I mean, that's definitely uh something that he's held onto. And hopefully I can pass on to my grandchildren one day on top of, know,  those future grandkids into 4-H as quickly as possible.  Yeah, I love where your heart is at. I really do. ah
05:26The other thing that's funny is I'm sitting here listening to you talk about how you grew up. And I didn't know that I was brought up under a homesteading umbrella because my dad heated his house for the wood. My mom and dad both hunted. They both fished. ate bass every summer or every spring.  My dad will not, he does not keep any bass these days. He's 83 years old. If he goes fishing and catches the bass, it's catch and release.
05:55And the last time I had baked bass, he makes it with stuffing. is amazing. Was when my kid was like six or seven, my youngest, he caught the bass with grandpa. And I said to him, I said, if you catch a bass, talk grampy and bring it home. Cause I want baked bass for dinner. And  my dad got home. We're having baked bass for dinner. And I said, Oh, did you catch one? He said, no, of course I didn't. Your kid caught it.  And I said, Oh, did you bring it home?
06:25He's like, yeah, cause he wouldn't let me put it back in the water cause mom wanted big baths for dinner.  So, um,  but seriously, I had no idea that my parents were doing anything unusual.  And as soon as I married my third husband, who happened to have a house in a small yard,  we started gardening because you can't eat grass. Yep. Very true.  And he was already a deer hunter. So we had that box checked.
06:54And we started putting food away and preserving. And I started crocheting and making hats and scarves for the kids. And it was all stuff I grew up with. And now in quotation marks, it's a movement. Yep. For good or ill, I think that the preservation of these homesteading skills and bushcraft and things like that is not only just, you're preserving your heritage as a human being.
07:22regardless of race, you we all came from the land. But you're also, you know, it's mental health. Because when you realistically look at it throughout human history, industrialization was what only the past, what since 1700, 1600, something like that. So you got to think how did we live for millions of years previously, well, we lived off the land and we lived side by side by animals. So there's a big mental health aspect to that, I think.
07:51Yeah. And when I, when I said now it's a movement, it might've sounded snarky and I didn't mean for it to sound snarky. I just find it really interesting that the old ways are now the new ways. Yeah. And I'm not against that idea. I mean, I have go.  And the problem that I have with it, I think is that,  um, these movements, because they are popular on social media and they do generate money is that some of the easiest things that you can do when you're, when you're creating these,
08:21this media is to slide backwards. And I've seen a lot of very detrimental, um, this toward women going back into the quote unquote, trad wife lifestyle. And I have watched a lot of these videos and they're, you know, on the surface, it's like, you know, this, this woman in a dress that looks like it's made out of a 1995, you know, kitchen curtain, you know, dancing around her kitchen, coop and cleaning it out in white sandals. And I'm like, this doesn't happen.
08:50Like good luck keeping your manicure when you've mucked a sheep stall for like four hours.  So yeah, those are the ones that make me mildly crazy. I'm like, I can't even imagine trying to do that. I mean,  I haven't actually mucked out our chicken coop ever because my husband does it. God love him.  But if I was going to go out there and uh scoop poop.
09:15I would be in the crappiest, holiest pants I have that I wouldn't be worried about throwing away.  my least favorite shirt, because you're going to get covered in straw or pine shavings  and poop. It's going to happen.  And spider webs and  dead bugs and beans. Of course, the dog is going to interrupt. Oh, that's okay. Maggie barked her head off this morning or yesterday morning when I did an interview with somebody and I was like, I'm sorry. And they were like, that's fine.
09:46But  I think that um at least what we're going to try to do, we are putting together  some media. We're hoping to get some  videos up by the end of the year. We're just sort of collecting it and doing it in the winter while we have a little bit more time.  It's also to talk about that there's a lot of mistakes that happen in homesteading. It's not all like, oh, I get to go out and play with my cute little sheep and my dogs are frolicking happy and...
10:13You know, like you do lose an entire litter of rabbits to a mother that, you know, knocks them out of the nest. Uh huh. You know, your sheep does split a hoof and then you have to figure out how to help, help that animal. yeah, break a horn on the wind. Oh my God. A broken horn on the sheet bleeds so terribly. So two of our sheep have four horns. Um, so, know, or, you know, a dog gets sprayed by a skunk or in the case of our.
10:42idiot dogs,  porcupines and what? Four times last year.  you know, it's not all about, um you know, canning goods in your kitchen  and,  you know, your beautiful little pet chickens, you know, flitting around. um It's  gross. It's a lot of poop and it's a lot of um dirt.  And  it's not this like clean sunny thing all the time.
11:10You're making it sound so incredibly attractive. Um,  um, but there is a lot of good to this and you know that, I know that.  And I think being real about it is really important. So like, when you look around, like, like what is, what is the pumpkin spice of the farmyard other than chickens, it's goats. I will tell you when Alan or probably chime in here,  goats are the most horrible animals you can ever have. And we say that from experience.
11:39Like, you can't have fruit trees. can't have, I used to have goats that would break out of their pen in order to eat the dirt, like, and start destroying my rabbit hutches to eat the dirty peat on hay from my rabbits. Despite the fact that the goats had like a good acre of fresh, they always had hay. They always had fresh everything. I mean, they were just flat out destructive. Um, so I would always recommend sheep.
12:05But you have a culture where homesteaders, the instant thought, and I fell into this too, which is why I'm mentioning this. The instant thought is, I'm gonna get goats. Don't get goats. Don't get goats.  It's so funny that you bring up goats because our friends have goats and they love their goats.  my friend loves her goats beyond probably loving her dogs. Wow.
12:32I'm okay with that because everybody has a different experience with every single animal. swear I've been doing this podcast for over two years  and I have heard goats are not naughty. I've heard goats are great. I've heard  goats are terrible. So I think your mileage varies on what kind of goat you get and what kind of person you are. But I do know that you have to make sure that you have a really good place for them to be corralled because they will escape if there's any chance.
13:00And our sheep basically, they just roam the yard. don't even fence them. We have a very small, I wouldn't even call it a neighborhood. We have a couple neighbors around us that are on a private dirt road and they just wander around and then about three o'clock in the morning, they start complaining because they want their pellets and to go to bed. So they're pretty easy. And we also have rabbits. We have two turkeys that I guess are pets now.
13:30I think their purpose is to scream when the UPS guy shows up. uh I didn't realize that we ended up with Blackhead on the property, which is going to limit us from really ever having turkeys here. Yep. bought don't know what that is. So it's a, it's not at all. It's a, what is it? A protozoan. That lives in worms. Yeah. And so what it is is that chickens will bring it in, but it,  it'll actually
14:01It's in the dirt now. So anytime, wherever the chickens have been,  and it doesn't even affect the chickens, but it does cause liver failure in turkeys.  the turkeys, any turkeys that eat like the worms and stuff, they come out of the ground because we've had chickens here for 20 years. Yeah. They, uh, yeah, it carries it with it. could have come in at any time during the last 20 years. It's hard to say.  So yeah, pretty much limited us to not having turkeys.
14:30Yeah, so we lost 80%. Yeah, we lost 80 % of our turkeys and I bought like heritage breed.  Again, thinking that I was losing turkeys because they were the white meat bird and they just weren't healthy. And then it turns out they they had this blackhead disease. And again, I think this is why it's very important to tell people about your failures. ah Because now we're not going to have any more turkeys other than these two that are ah living with us now. ah
15:00Because when you talk about your failures, things like blackhead disease or things about, you know, things, the realities of home study um are important to know because you also get into the situation where people think that they're going to come in and they're going to have this cute little farm and they go and they buy like uh a miniature cow and they go buy, you know, goats and rabbits and  a guardian dog. And then the next thing you know,
15:27they're completely overwhelmed and have no idea what they're doing when that cow becomes a bull or that guardian dog wants to work and they have no idea how to control that. um I think it's very important to put out a realistic idea of what homesteading is because ultimately, even if you're eating your animals, you are the steward and the guardian of those animals. So their quality of life is on you up until that time that you um use them for food.  Certainly is. uh
15:57Every time my husband floats an idea about what he would like to do next, I say,  we need to take six months and do the research and think about it before we make any decisions. And he looks at me like I'm cracked.  And I'm like,  no, seriously, we're not diving into anything until we know what we're doing. Because I'm one of those people who  when the animals die, it breaks my heart. We got, we got rabbits.  Um,  oh my God, three years ago now.
16:26Rabbits are not our thing. Just for the record, we don't do rabbits anymore.  And the rabbits were not getting pregnant. And we still to this day don't know why. And we had a confirmed buck and two confirmed does.  We got one litter of rabbits out  of one of  the does in a whole year.  So either they were bad at their job or we didn't know what the hell we were doing. And I want to say it was probably both. But I did all the research.
16:55I looked up everything. talked to the people that sold us the rabbits and it still didn't work. So, there's two schools of thought here. You can do all the research on earth and still fail or you can not do any research at all and for sure fail. And you can feel kind of strophically. Because I think people wonder. So both of us still work full time. I'm in school full time. And of course we have the friends that are like, how do you do it all? And it's like, well, you don't have a choice. So if you want to do home studying,
17:25it's very rare unless you are inheriting ah the infrastructure and an established farm to actually make a living wage out of homesteading. And that's something that I've tried to explain to people as well. Like we don't, we, if anything, kind of break even by the fact that we can fill our, um you know, fill our freezers full of meat. Like we don't really have to go meat shopping at all. um And our dogs, we,
17:54You know, I think that we avoid a lot of vet bills because our dogs eat a good raw diet. Um, for the most part that comes off of the animals that we process ourselves. Um, but I mean, are you going to make a complete living off it? I wouldn't quit your job. Yeah. Like don't, don't quit your day job until you're ready. You know, and that means you're going to be working yourself to the bone. Um, but that's again, that's the reality of the situation.
18:24Yeah, yeah, and you're making a really good distinction here because a small homestead is not a big farm. It's never gonna be And one to two people um There's only so much you can do in a day, you know It does make it a lot easier with two people like we can get a bunch of chickens done in a day We can get a bunch of rabbits done in a day But it is it's hard work and it's constant work and
18:53It's definitely, you know, a labor of love, but these are the realities of the situation. So again, like I talk about that on reality of things like tip-talk and stuff like that, where it shows these people, like one person doesn't have to work and one person doesn't have to do this. then I'm guaranteeing you that a lot of those people have landscapers. have, you know, people coming in and setting up the scene for them and things like that. So.
19:20When it comes to people who actually want to start doing this themselves, don't believe anything you hear in that realm. If it looks too good to be true, it is. I always tell people if they're interested, they need to go to a place where the people are actually walking the walk and talking the talk. Absolutely. And that's what we've tried to do, you know, to an extent with our friends. um Next year, we're going to start raising meat birds ah to  help.
19:49feed our friends and have them all come over and do a butchering party. I'm really excited for that. That will be very interesting on the psychology side. Yeah, well, it's kind of it's kind of interesting because once I think that people at least once in their life, if they're going to eat meat,  really should understand where it comes from. And at least on the homestead, you know that your you know, your meat, you know where it comes from, you know, it's not abused. You know, its final moments were not
20:19you know, on a factory line, was,  you know, just picked up and  in the case of chickens, you just kind of cut their throat and it's instant.  Um, but I think that that's really important to understand because part of what we get at the supermarket where everything is sterile and pre-packaged is a distance from honoring the animals that we eat.  Um, and when you stop honoring your food and you stop honoring the animal, well, you don't miss it until it's gone.
20:50And, you know, that's, that's part of a consumerist culture. That's part of a culture that just expects, well, when I need food on the grocery store in the grocery store, it's going to be there.  Um,  and part of homesteading and part of small time farming is to ensure that, or to understand that, no, it might not always be there.  And  you have to kind of provide for yourself, but it also connects you to that bridge between, um, you know, the wild.
21:18and your domestic life because you are living with animals, you're caring for animals, you're  killing animals in order that their body feeds yours. So to have respect for that circle, I think is very important and very humbling as a human.  Oh,  absolutely. The first time I watched a chicken get butchered that was my chicken, I was like,  oh, this is hard. And I didn't cry. I was more shocked than sad.
21:47And my husband said, are you okay? And I was like,  yeah, I said, but other people need to know this is how it's done. And he said, I think we're going to have that covered someday. And now I'm doing a podcast about all of this. So,  but yeah, it's really, really hard. The first time  you take the life of an animal to sustain your own life through eating it.
22:13Yep. we try, I think another thing that we try to do is use every possible part.  um, you know, in the, in, in rabbits,  um, nearly everything is usable other than sort of the awful, which is like the digestive system and all the feces and things like that. Like you can basically use everything. The chickens will eat it. The dogs will eat it. You can eat it.  Um, and then the fur is obviously usable as our, like, we just barely completed a entire batch of rabbits.
22:42cheek, our key chain, sorry.  Um, so we try to use absolutely everything we can. If we can't use it, we pass it on to somebody else. So we even save bones and skulls because these things are the ears even, um, because these are really big on the oddities market. Yep. So it's important for us that, you know, every part is used, everything is used and that the animal dies a very quick,  um, quick painless death.
23:10And it is hard. is hard with rabbits, especially when you, you know, you're the one raising them. So I kind of, I feel better by the fact that I have,  um, I do have a favorite rabbit who will live her life out here. name's October. She's very sweet and she's a very good mom. So I've decided that, you know, she will be one of the rabbits that stays.  Um, but I also think of it too, as you know, not only do we as humans eat
23:38horrifically processed food, but so do our pets.  And um that was another thing that I think that I had issues with on TikTok too, was that, you know, there's this big thing of like showing people feeding their dogs, like these vegetables and things like that. And I've been a,  I've worked in, I've worked with dogs most of my life. ah I was a groomer, a dog trainer, a behaviorist. um I've ran kennels, rescues. We have five dogs right now that are all rescues.
24:07They're obligate carnivores. So the idea that it's good or easy for them to digest vegetable matter is something that was promoted by pet food companies in order to sell you corn and soy and rice and things like that that dogs really should not be eating, same with cats. ah So another aspect of that was I wanted to start also talking about
24:34you know, Ron ancestral diets for dogs. And part of how we supplement that is through our rabbits and chickens.  Um, so it's,  uh, it's, it's, it's a whole thing, I guess, like when you do this, it becomes your life and it becomes,  um,  sort of a center,  not necessarily of your world because you're working on it, but like a center that centers you. Yes. Yep. You're grounded in it.
25:04Yes.  I love that. I think that's fabulous because a lot of people are like, yeah, we have chickens, we have goats, have cows, and they talk to me about it  and they're thrilled to have them and they take care of them and they do what they're going to do with them.  And that's  wonderful. Absolutely.  But you are grounded in this. Like you,  you were died and centered in this.  Absolutely.
25:33There's a line from a movie. can't think of it right now, but  I said it badly.  Go ahead. God, I'm trying to think of what I want to do. And so we're, we're always like adding projects too, which is crazy. He goes a little crazy cause I'm a little ADHD and I'm always doing things, but,  um, you know, we do maple syrup too. So that's pretty fun. Like we get, um, you know, we'd pop trees on our property.  Um,
25:58And every year we come up with big batches of syrup done the old way, quote unquote. We do use the aluminum buckets and we, you know, we cook it outside on a stove that we rebuild every year. That's for Gordon and Hames, sure.  And everything goes up and down at the same time and everything's made of rock out here. Yeah, that's true too. If  anybody out there is unfamiliar with the quote unquote granite state, well, it's aptly named.  Gardening is very hard here. It is, ah there's,
26:28There's a lot of rock in the ground, let's say, and our property is extremely rocky. It's hard to drive people. It is.  Fencing is an issue all the time. ah And we also heat the house using wood mostly sourced from our own property. Like we go out there and we cut it and drag it out with the Jeep and, uh you know, spend the warmer months kind of processing it and drying it and things like that. But again, it's work.
26:55Are you always a year ahead on your firewood? I would say no. We laxed last year, I think we did. But we made up for it because one of the things too to remember is people are always getting rid of things. Yeah, so we sort the tremendous amount because the emerald ash borer came through this area. It's filled all the ash trees and it's standing dead now.
27:25So they, we were helping out an older couple cleaning up trees that were coming down on their property. And that's where we got a lot of the stuff this year, which was nice because it's already dry. Yeah. The Emerald Ash borers found our tree line this past year or two and  the trees were hanging in. And my husband noticed this spring that there were a lot of holes in the ash trees, you know, the trunks. And he came in and he said, we have a problem. And I said, what's that? And he said, the, uh
27:54The woodpeckers are basically putting holes in our ash trees. And I said, well, yeah, that's what woodpeckers do. And he said, no, we have emerald ash doors. They're going after the bugs. I was like, great. I said, how many trees are almost dead? He said, at least half. And almost our entire tree line is all ash trees. I was like, what are we going to replace them with? He says, apple trees, peach trees, plum trees. I was like, go for it. Please do that.
28:22It's a good time. Is it south facing? Good time for like a food forest. You can see it.  It's actually  south. It is south. It's it runs north to south. And so we have plum trees and apple trees and pear and peach trees over there already. And they're doing great. So he's just going to keep adding some in every year. That's what I want to do. I want to do more like the permaculture aspect of things as opposed to  the annuals where you have to like
28:52them every year. So you're getting more out of a out of the permaculture state like plants as opposed to like your corn, which you have to put a ton of effort into planting every year, you know, where you could just go out there and pick fruit or berries or. Okay.  You know how Shannon is very uh adamant about homesteading is hard and TikTok sucks because people put happy.
29:21the lucky stuff on there. Yeah. I hate corn. Corn is not good for you. really is. It's a grain. It's not even vegetable. It's a starch. It really is not. Not gonna lie. The food quality is so poor in that. Yep. So I am going to die on that hill. Corn is not really good for you. And I mean, if you want to have an ear of sweet corn picked from the field down the road from you because it tastes good in August,
29:51Go for it, slather it in butter, enjoy it. But  corn every meal is really bad for you. Yeah. It is a dietary, you know, like  the amount that we eat it or the amount that we force it onto our pets is absurd. It's a sugar spike here. Yeah. And I think again, that's something that we have to be aware of when we are doing this homesteading thing. Like, why are we doing it? Because the food that we're being fed in the grocery store, 99 % of the time is just manufactured garbage.
30:20It's crap is what it is. My husband grew these beautiful cabbages, like an  old variety of cabbage this summer.  And uh I had told him to not bother growing cabbages because usually they're not very good and they take up a lot of room  and they're buggy. They get bugs really easy. Yeah, I the veracica as well.
30:43Yeah, and he picked this very old variety from some place and got the seeds and put them in and started them from little baby cabbages.  And they were like  dark green. They were sweet. They were crispy. I said, you can grow those cabbages every summer for the rest of our lives if you want. Cabbage is good for you.
31:06Yeah, we tried gardening. Our garden is a little, uh, was feral. We took off for a week in the river and came back and it just sort of took over. We went from the extreme water this year too. So it rained. I think it was like, you know, working full time made it really bad, but I think it was like 15 or 16 Saturdays in a row. Yep.
31:31Like every weekend for like 16 weekends, all spring, rain every weekend. We got so much rain this year from the beginning. And then all of a sudden July came and then it stopped raining. It didn't rain again until October. That was our summer two summers ago here in Minnesota. And these things are difficult. So the garden did okay. We're probably going to try to refurbish the whole thing this year. And we do it again, composting. like we make
32:01Rabbits make massive amounts of manure that you can literally just kind of throw in the garden. um But we have so much  poo production here that, you know, we definitely ah make enough compost, um which again is another thing that I think ah needs to be discussed too, because,  you know, rabbits are definitely a very sustainable way to raise meat for yourself. Supposing you can kill them. Caveat. um
32:30But  there's a lot of push like, you can raise rabbits in a small space. You can raise rabbits like right in your backyard. But what they don't tell you is how much poop they produce and that you have to find some method of disposing of that, whether it's giving it away or uh putting it in the corner of your house because  animals make a lot of poo. And anybody who has ever worked with animals  will tell you that like,
32:57Probably like 70 % of working with them is poop.  Oh yeah.  Even the dogs.  Yeah, for sure.  It's not a clean and shiny and roses and candy kind of lifestyle. No, and it's expensive too. know, like, I mean, when we have the egg shortages, I was trying to go get meat birds and everywhere I went, it's like, we're focusing on egg layers because people want to buy egg layers.
33:26And I tried so hard to tell people like by the time you get your eggs, you've put more money. You could buy eggs even at that extended price cheaper than you ever could by raising your own chickens. Yeah. There's a lot of people in our area that have a $2,000 dozen eggs this year. Yep.  Oh yeah. Those first eggs are expensive. Yeah. Between the feed and the chickens. You can get it layers all day long on Craigslist right now though, free.  Yep.
33:55give them a whole lot.  And the roosters were insane. mean, I even went to tractor supply looking for the meat birds and this woman was there like, Oh, we're get chickens, we're gonna get eggs. And I'm like, these are straight run.  So you might end up with roosters. And I told her flat out, said, I got a couple of Americanas. I got five just to sort of add the blue eggs to my flock. And I ended up with four roosters. ah So you also have what you know, another thing comes into home studying is responsibility.  And part of that is
34:25On a homestead, males are kind of useless. uh know, like, do you, I mean, if you have pets, that's one thing, but like, how many rams do you need? How many bulls do you need? How many roosters do you really need? How many bucks do you really need? Not that many. So what happens when,  you know, someone goes and buys a straight run of chickens  and they end up with mostly roosters. Well, what are you going to do that? Nobody wants a rooster. You might be able to rehome a few or send a few to rescue, but.
34:54for the most part, those roosts are gonna be culled. And that's another thing to consider that you have to be a part of. Even if you're not the one doing the culling, these animals that you're raising, responsibility-wise, they're most likely going to end up culled. And I think too that there's a lot of, there's a lot of rose colored glasses when it comes to how people perceive.
35:23homesteading, or even chickens in general. mean, I'm not, my dogs are being ridiculous right now. I've gotten a lot of flack for, you know, how can you butcher chickens? Well, they're so beautiful and wonderful and friendly. And I said, well, chickens will eat each other. I was like, as soon as I go to butcher my meat birds, my egg layers are out here. They're looking for the blood. They're looking for the entrails. They don't care. They're little dinosaurs. They are absolutely.
35:52And you see a lot of people's vision shattered by this sort of thing. And then again, you look on TikTok, like I saw some lady post this ridiculous ah post about she tried to make it out as her rooster was mourning a hen that died. And of course people in the comments were like, oh, those poor, you know, birds, were, they were, you ah meant to be together.  you know,  people were coming up with this entire love story of this hen and this rooster. When people who actually had chickens are like,
36:22The only reason he's looking at her is he's cause he's trying to peck feathers off her to eat the feathers. Cause they do that.  And  there's again, there's this like sort of blindsided disconnect of how these animals actually are. And I'm not trying to like, you know, I'm not trying to say that if you want to have a pet chicken and you love that chicken, we have one here.  Um, that there's anything wrong with that. But again, when I go back to like, you have to honor the animal.
36:49You have to honor the fact that yes, that chicken is a little dinosaur and they can be exceedingly cruel to each other. I mean, they will peck each other to death. So we don't honor these animals by giving them human feelings and emotions. We honor them by respecting the animal that they are. Yeah. It's like Joel Saliton says, the pigness of the pig. Yes. Okay. Well, this is not the conversation I thought I was going to have this evening, but I'm glad I'm having it.
37:20Well, I'm actually glad to hear that  Yeah, I want to have you guys back because who makes the the pens and the crochet hooks is it yours at oh out? Well, let's have Alan come back when you guys have time and talk to me about that because those crochet hooks look amazing Oh, no problem. I'm sure he would love to oh
37:50If  it was a hit or not. Yeah, he had, he really. look great. oh He would probably enjoy actually talking about that because he starts talking about wood stuff to me and I start glazing over. So.  We'll have to set it up for after the new year.  Excellent. All right. Shannon, Alan, I appreciate you taking the time to talk with me.  Can people find you anywhere other than Hellfire Homestead on Facebook?  There's that and we've put up a YouTube.
38:20Currently, we don't have any media on that because we're still kind of putting that together. Again, like I said, like over the winter where we have slightly less time um in the summer and fall to do this. So we're trying to just sort of get that done now and probably put it out by spring um because we also have our paranormal group and things like that going. So  lots of stuff. I wish my podcast, I wish I could figure out a way to stretch it to paranormal stuff because I would love to hear about that.
38:50I don't think I can work Homestead and Paranormal into the same thing.  We could talk about how our rural history is very haunted.  Maybe we'll do that in the spring too.  All right. uh As always, people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com. And if you want to support the podcast, you can go to atinyhomestead.com slash support, because I'm really original like that.  Thank you guys so much for your time. I appreciate it.
39:19No problem. Have a good holiday. You too.