A Tiny Homestead

Mother Nature's Apprentice

Today I'm talking with Pam at Mother Nature's Apprentice. You can follow on Facebook as well.
Pam's new book, Wonder and Joy for the Wired and Tired: A Guide to Finding Inspiration and Well-Being in a Wonder-Filled World, releases in August 2025.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters, and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Pam, at Mother Nature's Apprentice in Kentucky. Good morning, Pam. How are you? I'm very well. How are you today? I'm good. How's the weather? It actually  is nicer today. It's a bit overcast here in beautiful Northern Kentucky.  We've been having
00:28like most of the country, some hot weather, but we did get some rain and I think we may get a bit more today. How about you?  It is lovely in Minnesota right now. The sun is shining.  There's big puffy clouds in the sky, bright blue, and it's about eighty to seventy five degrees, I think, if that it's the first really nice morning we've had in  just under a week because it's been really muggy here. So.
00:56I was very happy to drink my coffee sitting on the porch with the window open and see the  rogue raccoon we have visiting us.  Oh, the rogue raccoon. Yes, we have one of those. How often does that little critter visit?
01:14Yeah, our little guy looks like he has a leg that is maybe hurt because he looks like he's hopping a little bit. I've been calling him hop along in my head. And  we don't have a live trap big enough to catch him. Plus our cats would get caught instead of him.  And my husband wants to  end his suffering with a firearm. And I am okay with that. The problem is he's never where we can get to him.
01:43They are smart. They're very smart.  Yep. And I saw him actually  face on toward me the other morning and the sun was coming up.  He's so beautiful. I'm like, God damn it. I don't want to kill this animal. He's gorgeous. Yeah. Those are tough calls, aren't they? I hate it. I absolutely hate it. And I know it's part of the life that we have chosen, but I hate it so much. Pam, it makes me sad. Yeah.
02:10Yeah, I know we've been there a couple times. don't have the beautiful weather. You have, but  we get things off the pond and whatnot and it just breaks my heart every time.
02:23Yeah, it's hard, but if we don't put him down,  a car is going to hit him. And I don't know which is worse. So we'll see what happens.  Okay. So tell me about yourself and about Mother Nature's apprentice.  Ah, well,  I'm,  I was born and raised in Indiana.  And actually I'm a dual citizen. I'm a Canadian and a U S citizen.  Lived here in
02:52until my early twenties and then found my way actually to Western Canada, the beautiful province of British Columbia, which is just north of Washington state  and  lived there for quite a while.  But you know, as beautiful  as Canada was, I mean, I've always loved nature and backpacking and an incredible geography there. You know, when you're born somewhere, that's still where you consider home.
03:22So  I found my way back to the Midwest  and not Indiana though, my husband and I, you know, live as I said in Northern Kentucky and we have  sort of three acres that we've reclaimed.  I'm  a  wife obviously, a mom, a grandma. Our kids are grown. We've got  a bunch of little ones running around  and we love  nature.
03:50Professionally, I guess that's the other hat I wear. I have a  PhD and earned PhD and I'm  a nurse practitioner clinician and an epidemiologist where I'm also an adjunct prof here  at Northern Kentucky University where I investigate winter joy, wellbeing  and  nature, how nature has such a wonderful, powerful impact on our health and wellbeing.
04:20And you're an author too, right?  Yes, that was unexpected.  As an offshoot of a research study I did,  which talked about wellness versus well-being and nature and extraordinary ornery, cetera, I decided to  indulge in my  passion for creative writing. So I started the blog, Leather Nature's Apprentice, and it talks about nature and
04:49all the things I just mentioned and some funky kind of nature, quirky things too, because I am a science nut. But that kind of dovetailed into a book, which I can't believe I did. That's been a journey. You people were very, thankfully, very kind about the blog and developed a bit of a following. And I said, you should write a book. And I guess even more than that, at the same time when I was
05:18presenting some of my research findings on well-being at conferences,  it really resonated with people and I got asked to talk more and more. And I initially thought, you know, I'll publish this in an academic journal like most academics do.  But I realized that's, you know, that's not where most people are going to see this. This is information that will help all of us.  So I guess that gave me the final.
05:44Courage, that's the right word, to write the book. So yeah, it's my first book. It's  coming out August 12th.
05:55And what's it called? Well, I guess I should share that shouldn't it's called. It's called Wonder and Joy for the Wired and Tired, a guide to finding inspiration and well-being in our wonder filled world. What a gorgeous title. Oh my God. Oh, thank you. Wow. It has little animals and plants on it. People say it looks quite joyous. So I thought, that's
06:25That's nice too.  I looked at the cover on your Facebook page and it looks like a children's book cover. And I was like, this is not a children's book, but it's so cute.  Well, it's whimsical, isn't it? I mean, I guess that was  joyous. I wanted it to be uplifting and kind of Wonderworld-like. And  yeah, thank you.  I'm glad you liked it.  Is it self-published or is it through a publisher?
06:51Well, it's through a very new press called Bear Paw Press. And that tumor was,  have you published before? Like a book or anything? No, I have not. Wow. Journey again is an understatement. I didn't know anything about this.  And so I went to a writer's conference and thankfully  I did have some more mainstream publishers in an ancient express interest. But
07:19there's just all kinds of  pitfalls and challenges to that. And so I thought, you know, I'm going to go this route.  It's been a  great experience. working with  Carrie Barnum at New Shell Books, who's a wizard and wonderful to work with.  So it's  it's sort of  hybrid, I guess. And but it gives me so much more control. And plus, it
07:46It allowed me to get the book out sooner. Oftentimes with mainstream publishers, I didn't know this. You can wait a year to two years to get your book out there because you're just in a queue.  And I thought, no, you know, I don't want to wait that long. So I'm going to  jump into the deep end and see what happens.  This is where I am.
08:11Isn't it amazing how technology has opened up so many doors to so many people on so many things? It's incredible. And I think that's part of what's been fascinating about this. As you found this morning with my delay with my computer, I have a love-hate relationship with technology. mean, obviously I have to use it when I'm teaching and giving talks, but I'm certainly not
08:41proficient in it, but I'm learning. I'm learning so many new skills  and I'm learning more about, you know, things for the blog and obviously for the book. It's just, it's been a  real learning curve and wonderful.
08:57Awesome. Fantastic. I love it when people take what they're good at or what they're really passionate about and write about it and then teach other people with that because I am a lifelong reader and learner and books have been my best friends my entire freaking life. So thank you for writing a appreciate it. I will be picking it up.  Oh, thank you. That's even better. Well, you know, because that's the other thing with technology, we're  reading less.
09:26Fewer people are actually picking up a book, whether it's  even on Kindle, but definitely something that's hard print in their hands. And that really is quite sad, isn't it? But I  guess  we'll change with the times and we'll adjust in a damp. But that's nice to hear that you enjoy reading.  I do. And  the only reason I have  a tablet with the Kindle app on it is because  I like to read before I go to bed.
09:55and I don't have a light by my bed. I have to get up out of bed to shut the light off. And with the Kindle,  it's backlit. You know, it's a black screen with white letters. And so I can read and that's like all asleep. I just put the book down on the side table and go to sleep. Plus I used to read and my husband would come to bed and he'd be like, can we shut the light off now? And I'd be like, yes, because I had an actual book, you know, you can't read in the dark. You have a book book.  So that's the best thing about it.
10:25You you sound like my husband.  He kids me because he is  a rabid reader. He loves to read  and he does the same thing. He loves his Kindle and he also reads before bed  and makes fun of me probably because of my poor technology skills.  But I  just, I'm one of those people who loves the paperback or hardback. I love the smell of the books  and  I'm, I
10:52still like to read in that way. But I think  I'm finding the conveniences, just as you said, of why a Kindle is so darn good. Yep. I love, love, love my tablet. It's small.  I don't have to, I can just prop it up against the pillow in front of my face and read it until my eyes slam shut. It's great.  Okay. So  you,  I'm not sure where to start on the rest of the questions.  You grow plants, right?
11:21do.  I do. I  love nature. I love gardening. And I guess  I always have.  My mom  was a wonderful gardener. I we just had a little backyard garden in Hammond, Indiana, but I have incredibly fond memories of having  time spent with her growing morning glories  and suspended along  a chain link fence. was just a sea of blue.
11:50collecting four o'clock seeds and it was just wonderful. And  I actually remember, I think the first time that I realized I resonated or rather nature resonated with me.  And I was six years old.  I can remember this clearly and long story short, there was,  it happened to be a total eclipse that day of the sun. And I was sitting outside and my mom had made one of those pinhole cameras and
12:18We were waiting for it and I was sitting on the grass next to some beautiful milkweed plants and we had been watching  the monarch butterflies  with the eggs and the larvae maturing into pupa and they're about to hatch. And I got so excited and I went to go and tell my mom that and wouldn't you know it,  I tripped and fell on  a rusty lid  of a bird feeder  and cut my hand open, believe it or not.
12:48This has related to nature because it also made me love the body and biology and instinctively even at six years old for some reason I didn't freak out because I  grabbed my hand, put pressure on the cut,  not knowing anything about it, right?  And the bleeding of course stopped, right? Because you occlude the arteries. But I ran to my mom to tell her of my excitement. And of course she saw this blood and looked like a murder scene, I'm sure.  But anyway.
13:15the gentleman next door was a physician, stitched me up, I was fine. But later that day, I  can still see this just like yesterday. I'm sitting with my bandaged hand on the grass  next to these  monarch butterflies. And my mom comes out with two popsicles  and the pinhole cameras. And she sits next to me and we watch this incredible eclipse together. was  nothing, Steven Spielberg could not have
13:44scripted this better. The eclipse ended  and slowly but surely all these monarch butterflies hatched. They emerged and there was this beautiful sea of orange and black.  And I remember feeling just  such incredible joy and wonder  at the human body and the eclipse and nature and, you know, my relationship and love for my mom. it
14:10No doubt, it propelled me to  go into science and nursing.  And I love nature. And so, yeah,  I've been a plant grower  probably since age six.
14:25Very nice. So do you have gardens at your place? I do. do. I don't know if you got a chance to see it, I sort of, my husband and bought this Charlie Brown neglected lot. Actually, it was called a garbage lot, believe it or not. But I loved the position of it. It was next to a pond and I love the area. It was very safe and green and all the good things you want in a home. But it was a disaster. Mary, it was horrible.
14:55Developers had dumped all their unused material and  other garbage there and weeds had overgrown it. was full of clay. But  I'm sure you've had this. think every listener out there has had this who is a farmer or a gardener. You have this vision. You  see the potential of that barren undeveloped property. And I guess I had that gestaltish moment where I...
15:21I saw this barren piece of land with no plants or trees and I saw this  garden that  had mature trees and it supported wildlife  and  it  nurtured our souls.  And I said, heck with it. I'm buying this quote unquote garbage lot and the two next to it where all the garbage was. And my husband and I over the course of the last few years have  far too many blisters  or bad.
15:50But anyway, yeah, we  created this garden on three acres and now thankfully it's full of life  and beautiful perennials that come and go and raccoons.  You  know, all kinds of critters.
16:08Yeah, the critters keep it interesting. That's what I'm going with.  That's good word for it. It keeps us on our toes, doesn't it?  You know, it's always an experiment, isn't it? You  you try to figure out what's going to grow this here or what's going to eat what, but  it's nice. That's what nature's about, right?  Yeah, the second summer we were here, we had a doe that showed up  just after my husband planted seedlings.
16:36And she ate the tops, just the very, very tippy tops of the seedlings all along the row. And my husband came in and he was like,  there's deer prints in the garden. And I said, are there any plants left?  And he said, yes. said, that witch, and he used a different word,  ate the very tippy tops off of every single seedling in the back row.
17:02And I said, well, will they come back? He said, yeah. He said, if she doesn't eat the rest of them.  And don't you find too,  if I don't know if they come back, but some years they'll eat, like go through my petunias or whatever. And the next year they don't touch them. And it's so interesting because I think I'm able to at least sometimes outsmart the deer because I know which ones tend, which plants rather, tend to be, you know, more deer resistant. And it's like,
17:31Uh, no, just like humans have our personalities. I find the rabbits and the deers and the chipmunks, you everybody has their own taste. So it's like, it's always, it's always hidden. Yeah. Well, we think the same doe came back the next spring, but she had a fawn with her and I got to see it.  And I was like, you can eat everything in the garden as long as you bring that baby back every morning. I don't care.  That's right. I know. I know. And
17:59I mean, how can you resist that, right? I mean, if you truly love nature, you have to realize that's nature. So you have to be flexible and just know it's all good. Just all good.
18:15Yeah, and you said you've listened to some of my episodes. If you have, you know that I am a sucker for babies. Baby animals are my favorite thing on the earth.  I know  it's the eyes. Well, it's not just the eyes. It's their little bodies. But when they look at you with those  eyes,  it just melts me every time.  I hear you. Yeah, we have a picture of our dog  at
18:44she was exactly eight weeks old. So she was the little puppy  and she's sitting on the couch and she was only five pounds  and she's looking directly into the camera lens  and  she is the cutest, sweetest, most adorable thing I've seen in forever in that picture.  She's almost five now  and there are times when she lays in a certain position where she's facing me  and I see that little puppy face still and I'm like,
19:13Oh my God, you're never going to lose this. It's your eyes. It's her eyes that give me that thing. So you're right.  Oh,  that's right. And the love,  always  have to bite my tongue sometimes when I  speak with colleagues or some other scientists  and they talk about how some animals,  not some animals, animals don't feel love in the same way humans do, or they don't express emotion or  don't feel depression, et cetera, et cetera.
19:43I bite my tongue because I, you know, it's been proven more and more that that's just false.  And  I think anybody who is an animal lover wants to sit here and go,  no,  that's absolutely categorically not true. Yes, in very clear layman's terms for me, if someone said that to me, I'd be like, my ass, they don't love like humans do.
20:09Thank you. You said it far more eloquently than me. wanted to say something much stronger, but you, that was perfect.  Uh-huh. My, my dad taught me really well. He is a very educated man. is  very bright  and has every word known to man stocked in his brain.  But he always says that sometimes his fair word is the correct word. Well, you're absolutely right. And you know, have studies now that have proven that people
20:36who occasionally swear, whatever occasionally means,  have better mental health  and have less anger, anxiety, et cetera, than people who don't utter the odd colorful word. And I thought, well,  I should be pretty healthy.  Oh, me too, darling. I'm right there with you.  And  I'm actually worse with inflection than I am with swearing. Like, if I am really angry,
21:03I am going to find exactly the right word. It will not be a cuss word. And the inflection on it will make it sound like worse than any swear word I've ever uttered in my entire life. Oh, that's right. And I'm trying to, oh, it's escaping me, I wasn't there a show or it was a book, something, but they talked exactly about that. They, I think it was a woman and she was from the South. And of course, growing up, you know, her, her upbringing was very proper and she was not allowed to swear.
21:33But boy, could she say like butterfingers in a way that you knew that that meant that  F off was there.  It was just perfect. And I thought, how wonderful is that? Yeah, I love the Southern God bless her heart thing that they say. It just makes me giggle every time someone says it.  that can mean so many things, right? mean, it's perfect.  Yeah, I'm really actually thankful I did not grow up in the South because
22:03I feel like Southern bells are  the best at the sarcastic insult without ever saying anything technically wrong.  agree. I agree. And that's been actually something that I have learned about Kentucky. And it's been wonderful where we live here in Northern Kentucky. We're right at the intersection of Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio,  and really about
22:2925  minutes away from Cincinnati.  So  it's a very sort of Midwest accent, so to speak. But if you go like even half an hour, 40 minutes south toward Louisville, Lexington,  that lovely, lovely Southern drawl kicks in with a lot of the sayings that you're talking about. And I'm always,  I'm always delighted to go down there because it's like kind of a whole other world. I'm always smiling and learning all kinds of new.
22:59new phrases.  Yes. And let's not imply that Southern bells only say cutting things. They don't. I'm sure that there are lovely women who live in the South who say flattering, wonderful things that they mean too.  Well, of course, of course. But that's one of the beauties of our country, I think, is when you  travel to the various areas and you see these marvelous cultures and  these  traditions. It just is  so rich.
23:28And I just think it makes our life  so much more full.  It's lovely.  It really is. And since we're talking about things being said certain ways and picking up on ways people talk,  the name of your place is Mother Nature's Apprentice.  And when I saw that, was like,  ooh, I love that.  And the reason that I love that is because I refer to myself as a kitchen witch because I love to cook.
23:56I could just as easily be a kitchen apprentice. mean, you know, same dip.  But when I was a kid,  I used to love to spend time in the woods because I grew up in the pine woods of Maine.  And  my mother would say, what did you do all day? And I would be like, oh, I just woodwitched it all day.  And she's like, what does that mean? And I'm like,  I'm a woodwitch. I spend all my time hiking.
24:22dubbing around in the creeks and walking out the lake. I said, I'm just a Woodwich. And she was like, I think you might be. That is, I love that. I've not heard Woodwich before. So if you don't mind, I may actually coin that. would attribute to you, of course, but that's perfect. You know, I got to tell you, you may be in Minnesota, but we should hang out because I think I think we would.
24:50Best friends, because you're right. mean, that's  my happy place. You put me out in the garden or the woods and just want her. Want her, want her. I mean, I would love it. I love it. Yep. I was really lucky. grew up in basically  they have a thing called the pine barrens in Maine.  And we weren't in the pine barrens, but we were surrounded by white pine trees everywhere.
25:18And we had a beautiful lake about a mile and a half behind my house. So you could either walk out through the woods or you could take a dirt road that went out to the lake. And I did both all the time. And we also had a really beautiful creek about half a mile from our house. So I had the best of all worlds growing up. It was fabulous.  Oh, so did you grow up in, in Maine? take it. that how you did? Yes.
25:45Wow, good for you.  Marty and I went to Bar Harbor  and I had to a talk up in that area. We just drove around and  my gosh, I  fell in love with the Northeast. It was just, it's almost a  spiritual place. I loved it. And I meant to ask you, listening to you, have you been out to the West Coast with  the Redwoods yet?  No, and probably won't ever because I don't love to travel.
26:15I love where I live.  Well, I can relate to that because it's crazy traveling today.  Oh my gosh, the airports don't get me started. But Marty and I did.  I had never been there.  And  we flew to San Francisco and then rented a car.  I have to tell you, Mary, it was spiritual. I don't even know if I can articulate.
26:40I mean, we've all seen the photos of these beautiful giant trees and you know, how massive they are when you're standing next to them. But to actually witness that and to stand there was, I  cried.  It literally brought me to tears.  I actually, I think I posted it on the website. I'm hugging  one of these massive trees. And of course it's dwarfing me, but  the thing that struck me was not only their beauty,
27:10and their height, but the quiet was  stunning.  And as big as these trees are, apparently they're close together because their root systems are shallow and they intersect with each other and it strengthens them right as they're rooted in the ground, which I didn't know. But  it  was something. So there's any way I could just transport you with Star Trek technology, I will send you there.
27:41Uh huh.  Yup. And I don't know if you know about this, but there are trees in Maine called, well, there used to be, I don't know if there are any left, but there used to be pine trees  called the King's Pines.  And they were, you were forbidden to cut these pine trees because they used them for the, the mast posts in the King's ships back before America was America. And
28:07I've seen one in my lifetime. My dad knew where they are and they have like a symbol carved into their trunk that shows that they're a king's pine.  Whoa. Okay. I'm marking this down. It's called a king's pine. King's pine. I'll have to look that up. I have never heard that, but good. And so there are still trees that are marked and you can't hurt them. Is that what you're saying?  You can't cut them. You are not allowed to cut them. You will be fined.
28:37Lots of money.  But  I don't know if there's any still standing because it's been a good 25 years since I saw one. So I don't know.  But I feel like, I feel like, yes, you and I could be best friends forever. That would be great. But I feel like I was meant to talk to you today because the, the love and the appreciation that I hear in your voice for the earth is just ringing.
29:04And part of the reason I started the podcast is because I wanted to give people a platform  to talk about the things that they do,  why and how they do them and what they love. And you are fitting right in because  you are doing things to promote, protect the earth.  And  we homesteaders and farmers are all trying to do that too in our own ways.  Well, that's very kind. And you know what?
29:33I'm glad that came through because I  do.  I don't know how to describe it. I just feel probably like you and probably most of your listeners out there have this deep, innate love  and connection with the natural world.  And  it's something  difficult to share, but you know it because you  can feel it  and  we need more of it. And I love, I meant to tell you too, I love...
30:02the name of your podcast and blog because I thought about the word homesteader.  And I thought, you know, I know in the traditional sense,  it  brings up this image of  pioneers and  the American West, et cetera,  and people living off the land, which is of course what homesteading is all about. But I think the beauty of that word is that it has evolved.
30:29And, you know, homesteaders, you're right, can be someone who maybe even has a small plotter, is trying  to live sustainably with  a balcony  full of  plants or food for their families or for  their well-being.  And  I think it's more a mindset than  sort of a place because it  has to do with, think, I hope I'm saying this right, sort of our mindful connection and our place within.
30:58the natural world and appreciation for  life.  And I think what you're doing is great. And thank you. Thank you so much for giving me and others a platform.  We need  to help each other and get the word out and do what we can to protect this  incredible, wondrous world that we live in. Yes, absolutely.
31:22don't for one second think that I'm that selfless. I also wanted to talk to people who were doing some of the things that we're doing here because I was lonely.  But that's okay and that's beautiful, right? Because  it is really at the end all about connection, isn't it? With each other and with other living things and well,  something bigger, however you define that.  that's actually nice to hear. was great that you're honest about that.
31:53Yeah, I needed to be able to be like, we got chickens and we got our first little tiny egg and have other people get it. Because you say that to somebody who lives in the city and buys their eggs at Whole Foods and they're like, what do you mean a little tiny egg? Yes, yes. And we've all been there. I'm sure we have all been there. People look at you like, you're one of those, what is it called? Woo woo, those crazy, you know, out there people. And it's like, no, no, that's not what we're.
32:23talking about it  and it's hard to explain. If you don't get it, you're not going to get it, right? Yep. I say that all the time. Oh good. And I try to be patient with people, know, not,  I didn't know half the stuff I know right now, 25 years ago about how all this stuff works. I had no idea. Cause you can only know what you know at the time with what you've experienced. And so
32:51When I talked to my, well, it's okay. I'm on tell a story because I need to tell a story. My best friend in high school, when we graduated, she went on to become a business major in college. That's what she wanted to do. And we were best friends. Like we were at each other's houses all the time. And I went on to move in with a guy that I probably shouldn't have married and have a daughter. And I called my best friend.
33:19a week or so after my daughter was born and I was high, you know, you have kids and you're in love and  y'all want to tell the world about this wonderful thing you created like no one's ever done it before. And  she politely listened and she was like, I'm so happy you're happy, blah, blah, blah. I gotta go. And I'm like, okay, good. Love you. Bye.  When she had her daughter, she called me about a week after she had her daughter and she said,  Mary, she said,
33:46I am so sorry that I was so  short with you when you had your daughter.  And I'd forgotten about it.  And I said, okay.  She said, I had no idea how in love I was going to be when I had my first baby and I didn't understand. And that's the biggest, I don't know, example I can come up with with you can't know what you don't know until you know it.
34:16That's right. That's right. And you know, I'm, wish you could see me now because I'm smiling and I'm nodding as you're speaking because I agree the same thing happened to me with, with kids. Um, but even with the study I did, I, I, I was getting just disillusioned, guess is a good word with the wellness model, so to speak, because so many people are still so depressed, so sad, you know, chronic diseases are still a problem. So I.
34:46You know,  I researched all this stuff and then I thought, okay, I'm going to find out  what's going on. What are we missing? Where are the gaps in the literature?  And so I did the study and the results were great. But you know, Mary,  what hit me was what came back that those individuals and it was international, was across, you know, gender and demographics of, you know, country boundaries and age  and, you know,  economic status.  And those people had scored highest in wellbeing.
35:16were those that spent the most time and most frequency in nature.  They appreciated this extraordinary ordinary, I guess,  that we're talking about, you know,  the feeling of holding your baby for the first time  or even the hand of someone you love for the last time, the power of that and all these things that we're talking about and they get it. You know, they understand how powerful the emotion of wonder.
35:45is in the notion of joy, not happiness, right? Joy. And  so I get these results and I thought, yes,  you know, this is what I had hoped. But you know, as a researcher,  you can't bias the study, right? So you just have to report the facts. So  I thought, oh my gosh, am I doing the statistics wrong?  So I sent them out. I sent them out to independent statisticians.
36:13who know far more than I did. And I said, could you crunch these numbers? And can you tell me what I'm finding? Is that what's really going on here? And they went, yeah, this is what we're missing. People,  we're not connecting with nature like we did even 10 years ago, get alone 50.  Technology, we're sitting at computers and  social media.  don't get me started on how dangerous and negative that can be,  And on and on, but you hit it right on the head.
36:43It's  we need to get back to well-being  and  the joy and the wonder of common sense  and what really matters, right, for a wholehearted joyful life.
36:59I agree completely with what you just said and I'm going to add to it.  I feel like we have gotten so far away from feeling our feelings. I understand that you don't want your child to throw a tantrum in the middle of Target because they didn't get a toy. But the feeling that your child is feeling is valid. And even as an adult, you know, if something goes wrong, you and it hurts you, you are allowed to sit down and cry about
37:29It is fine.  Absolutely.  And I, again, I'm going to give you a big hug over the phone right now, because that was another huge thing about  the wellness problem. Why it's not serving us right now.  For things I don't even have to go into next. But wellness and happiness have sort of co-opted into one big thing. This whole  search for happiness, chase happiness.
37:57has  actually made us sick.  And it's making us unhappy because what it's doing is exactly what you're saying. It's blunting  the natural  spectrum, I guess, of being able to express and feel the full spectrum of emotion, right? Because we're supposed to be happy all the time. And  if you can't do that, if you can't be angry, if you can't be sad when you really need to be sad, you feel guilt.
38:27And then this whole toxic positivity thing starts to go on and it's very difficult to break.  And I actually talk about that in the book, how we have to kind of jump off that hamster wheel. This whole happiness wellness hamster wheel is  not healthy and we need to stop it. Yes. And maybe your book can help people figure out how to stop  the hamster wheel from spinning in that direction. I  haven't read it yet because it's not out till next month.
38:57But I hope it does. And I understand that people have jobs and they need to go to work and they need to behave like quote unquote normal human beings and do their job  and not let their feelings interfere. I get all that. It's fine. But I also feel like if you spend your whole life stuffing your feelings, what happens is that you get stuffed to full and then you explode in some way. That's not good either.
39:27You're absolutely right.  You're absolutely right.  And the whole key of course is to,  well, again, don't get me started, but it also dovetails into resilience. When you talked about, you know, the kids, when we tell our kids to not feel this or you have to feel that, you know, it's okay to fall down. You know, it's okay to be disappointed and it's okay to lose whatever that means because, you know, what that does is it teaches us how to bounce back and
39:56And a great analogy is like, again, going back in nature, mean, trees  get stronger from thunderstorms and being  in heat and wind. You know, they grow stronger roots and they grow taller when they're in difficult and various environmental situations.  You can apply that same adage to humans in many ways. We need those to learn so our brain can develop new ways to figure out how the heck to get around that, should we encounter that again.
40:26Yes, exactly. And part of the reason that I  love the choice that we've made or we made five years ago, almost today,  to move to our homestead, to  buy land and have a homestead, is that  here  we have the opportunity to embrace nature and grow a garden and have chickens and have home,  farm fresh eggs, basically.
40:53If I need to go outside and yell because something is wrong, I can step outside and yell and no one gets mad at me.  I love it. But you're right. Right? I mean, that is, that's your little piece of heaven and  it's, oh my gosh, I wish I could see your place. It sounds gorgeous.  It just sounds so healthy and so peaceful. And I can hear it in your voice too. You clearly love what you're doing  and  you love where you're living and it's
41:22It's wonderful when you hear that,  when anybody hears that in  someone's voice. So good for you. I'm very happy for you. Thank you. I'm really happy for me too. You have no idea how long  we planned and thought and dreamed for this place.  My husband and I have been together 22 years, 23 years this fall. And I think within the first three years of being together, we were like, okay, someday we're going to have
41:51acreage and we're going to have chickens and we're going to have a big garden and we're going to have apple trees and we have apple trees, Pam. Oh my God, we have apple trees.  Oh my God.  So this was manifested  long before it came to be. And I probably sound like a fanatic when I talk about it, but we are so happy here. Like  never been happier in a location in my life other than the house I grew up in.
42:19It's not fanatical. All what I'm hearing is joy. I'm hearing joy in your voice and that's that is obvious. And, know, again, when you're when you're in that place where you're in a healthy relationship and a healthy environment, it everything truly does fall into fall into place. And that doesn't mean that your life is perfect. I mean, there are bumps in the road. Crap happens. You know, it it it happens. It's life. But
42:50You know,  the joy part of it is what sustains us. And that's why it's different than happiness, right? Because when those mountains, those bumps in the road come, you you go, this  stinks, this really stinks. But you know,  I'm gonna make it through this,  whatever that means, and it's gonna be okay. And you feel, I think the word is blessed, maybe because, you know, of...
43:16religion or spirituality, however you want to define it. But I say that to Marty too. I feel blessed  and  joyful. And I hear that in you. I just love it. Yeah, I always say whatever doesn't kill us, it's going to make us stronger even though we might want to die. That's right.  Yep.
43:39Yeah, I've been there, done that. I hear you. And I think everybody out there, you know, they can relate. I mean, no one has a charmed life. Everybody, no matter how wonderful it is, you know, you're going to wake up the next morning and God forbid, you're going to find a breast mass or someone you love is going to get sick or pass on and, you know, you're going to lose your job, whatever. But, you know, that's life. That's the journey, right? And you have to embrace it. And that's what wholehearted living is, I believe, right?
44:10Yes. And that's,  that's exactly what's missing in a lot of people's lives. They're not living wholeheartedly. They're just getting through each day. And  I don't want to sound Pollyanna-ish, even though I always do, but it would be really cool if people would get to live  their lives, like really fully live. That's right. That's right.  And that's, that's the
44:36The problem though, I think, we  are, you hit it in the head, we're surviving often, but we're not thriving. I  was given a  quote recently, and if you can indulge me, I want to read it because it resonates with exactly what you said.  And it was a quote from the Dalai Lama, and I may misquote it, so forgive me a little bit. But  he was asked  what surprised him most about humanity.
45:04And he responded quickly and said, man. And when asked why, he said, well, because he sacrifices health in order to make money. And then he sacrifices money to race after health. And then he is so  anxious about the future that he doesn't enjoy the present. And sadly, the result is that we neither live in the present or the future.  But then he dies never having ever really lived.
45:35And I probably butchered that because I'm certainly not the Dalai Lama,  but I thought, isn't that the truth? We just don't get it until it's too late.
45:48Yes, I think I've read that before and went, yup, exactly. That is exactly what people do. Yep. Yep. All right, Pam, we're at like 45 minutes. try to keep you my gosh. But that's fine. Where can people find you? Okay. My blog is mothernaturesapprentice.com. It has a Facebook site and a website.
46:18I guess my  author's side, suppose I should give that now. It's just  pamstevenslanebauer.com and that's Stevens with a P-H.  Do I have to spell the name because it's kind of hard to pronounce? I can spell it for you. It's L-E-H-E-N-B-A-U-E-R. Yes, thank you.com.  And yeah, I'm listening to you and
46:45all this wonderful stuff you're inspiring me to do a podcast. So I may start to do that a bit more, but  thank you.  I can't thank you enough for this opportunity,  lovely to talk with and I love your voice as I told you before we started and I love your podcast. So thank you. Well, thank you for all that. You're making me blush  and  thank you for your time, Pam. I appreciate it. And as always, people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com.
47:15Pam, I hope you have a great day. You too. Thanks, Mary. Bye.
 

The Dorr Family Farm

Today I'm talking with Amy and James at The Dorr Family Farm.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Amy at Dorr Family Farm in Whitefield, New Hampshire.  Good evening, Amy.  Again, I'm all confused on time. Sorry.  How are you?  I'm good. How are you? I'm good. You said your husband is there and I of course blanked his name already. Yeah, have James, my husband James with me.
00:29James is with us too. So we have a couple to talk to tonight.  Have you guys been getting a ton of rain? Yeah, way too much.  Today too?  A little bit. Okay. All right.  My folks live in Maine and they have done nothing but  tell me how much rain they have gotten this spring. So I assumed  with you being in New Hampshire that it would be the same thing. Yeah, it's been, the ground is really wet.
00:58We still have the remnants of vernal pools that are usually not still present this time of year.  A little bit. Trying to get into it a little more. Well, this year must be hard because it's taken my dad 10 plus years to put in  this garden this year. That's how it feels anyway.  Okay, so I looked at your Facebook page and Door Family Farm has been around for a long time.
01:28So tell me about yourself and what you guys do. So yeah, this place has been here for a really long time. We've been here 13 years. So the farm has been in my husband's family for now eight generations. And it started out in the 1800s. My husband's, let's see, great.
01:57Great. Many greats. Many great. Grandfather settled here from Canada and just started like a small, he was alone and he had a little shack and he just, you know, worked the land and the house that stands today was built in the 1800s as well as the barn. And we just kind of ended up here. It wasn't in the plans.
02:28That happens. hear that a lot. Yeah. Are you from New Hampshire? Well, I was born in Massachusetts, but I lived in New Hampshire most of my life. Moved here when I was about five years old. Okay. I'm just not picking up on any New England accent at all. And I was like, maybe she didn't grow up in New Hampshire, but okay.
02:54Okay, so what do you guys do at the farm? It's a farm, so I'm assuming it supports itself? Well, it definitely doesn't support itself. Oh, no. No. So we hold full-time jobs. I'm a nurse and James is an independent IT consultant. The farm once did support itself. It has gone...
03:22through many different changes over the years.  At one point it was a strawberry farm  and at another point it was a potato farm.  Before that it was a dairy farm.  So it's always been a farm of some sort.  And when we came here, it was not in the plans and we sort of ended up here  through happenstance. The house
03:52has been in the family for generations and it  was about to be sold.  We didn't want that to happen, so we bought it.  We moved here with no plan.  We've consistently  raised chickens the entire time we've been here. That's been the constant. At  one time, this place  provided all the food for the families that were here.
04:21And we'd like to  tap into that and get back to some of that. Okay. Awesome.  And I think I saw something about a hip camp. You guys offer that? Yes. Yep. So we rent campsites on the property in the field and woods area in the back.  And it's just kind of a little very minimal effort thing that we offer.  And we've been doing it for a few years now.  This year has started off kind of slow.
04:50I think things are weird, but  last year we were able to pay almost all of our property taxes with our hip camp income. So I feel like that's  a win.
05:02Okay. So for people who don't know,  hip camp is sort of like Airbnb only for camping, right? Exactly. Yeah. And it's like rustic, undeveloped camping. So  you're not going to get a fancy bath house or a pool.  We rent to a lot of people who arrive on bicycle, actually, traveling across the Cross New Hampshire Trail,  which starts in Woodsville, New Hampshire, goes to Bethel, Maine.  So we just hosted one the other night. We rarely ever see them.  It's kind of a...
05:33just a really private, rustic camping experience.  So  we came up with that as a way to kind of utilize the land because it's just kind of sitting here and it's very minimal effort. And sometimes we meet some really neat people, but a lot of times we never see them, which is great.  So it's easy. It's almost passive income. Exactly. Yeah, very much so. I'm a big fan of passive income.
06:02I am. think that  if you can provide a service that doesn't require a whole lot of effort on your part,  you should do it.  definitely. I agree. That's why we started it. I kind of talked my husband into it.  Yeah, the closest we have to passive income here is we have a farm stand on our property right off of the driveway. Yeah.  And I have a Venmo  QR code thing out on  the bulletin board out there.
06:31and we have a little container for cash  and people pull in, they get eggs, they get veggies, they get candles or soap or lip balms and they leave. Yeah. And I love it because it's like a little surprise at the end of the day when we go out to see who bought what, you know? Yeah. Yeah. We also have a little farm stand, mostly just eggs. So, but I would like to move into more things, but it takes time.  Yeah. Yes, it does.
07:00Speaking of time, my husband just  spent an hour, I can't talk tonight, don't know what's up,  spent an hour picking black raspberries in our tree line.  And  I'm going to be making a black raspberry pie tomorrow from wild black raspberry bushes that we didn't have to pay for. am so excited about this. That's That is excellent. Yeah, like  we have a blueberry patch that has been here forever and same thing. It's like you walk out the back door and it's just right there.
07:30It's awesome. It's not blueberry season yet, right?  No, not yet. Not yet. Another couple weeks? Yeah. Yeah.  Yup. I ate a lot of blueberry cake in my day when I was growing up in Maine because we had blueberries everywhere. Yeah.  Okay. So  I understand you both have full-time jobs,  but  do you have dreams for the farm? I mean, have you talked about what you would like to expand into?
08:00Yeah. So like my vision is I've always,  when we moved here,  first of all, there  used to be a lot more land here.  Over the years, a lot was subdivided and sold off.  So we have a remaining five acre parcel  with the original barn and farmhouse,  which five acres is still a pretty usable amount of land.  So my  thought since we arrived here is that I wanted to be able to
08:28use the land and kind of be home more  and try to find a way to make a living off of it.  Well, is it wooded or is it pasture or what is it? Yeah. So it's about,  it's probably,  yeah, it's about three quarters pasture and about  a quarter of it is wooded. Okay.  Well,
08:55Do you want some ideas from a lady who spends a lot of time talking to people who have farms and homesteads?  Sure.  Okay. If you have a lot of woods, I assume you have a lot of underbrush in your woods. We do. Yeah.  Goats are great for that. They will eat  all the low lying bushes  instead of grass. They don't love grass.  Goats are a great, great thing because you can use them for meat.
09:24You can use them for milk and the milk you can make cheese. You can drink the milk. You can make  goat butter from the  milk fat  and you can make goat milk. So they're like the perfect animal for the situation you're in. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely, know some people that have goats and I think that the time requirement and having to be home is kind of tough.  So Mary, this is James.
09:53So four legged, four legged farm animals are not in our future.  Oh no.  We like to go away and we like to do things. I think part of the vision of this farm is going to be,  you know, something that's a little more self-sustainable,  a little more intelligent. You know, there's a lot of small craft things you can do.  And,  and with animals,  they require that you're here, you know, all the time.
10:22And we have a little system set up for our chickens where they can sustain for a few days. you know, it's challenging running a farm in 2025 because you're not as necessary to the community. don't think as people fit, know, the perception of how necessary you are is different than it was, let's say, 100 years ago. So we're still trying to figure out where we fit in with this whole thing.
10:51And that's the challenge. Amy likes to  bring people here.  And I'm completely opposite.  I like people coming to my farm stand, and that's it.  Property.  But Amy brings people  and she's trying a bunch of different things as well. And I guess the point comes in that it's just to be innovative is the only way to really sustain something like this because the old models that we
11:20know of are gone  for a lot of us. including your farm where it's, you know, it's, difficult,  especially with, you know, her being a nurse and I'm a systems engineer.  And I hear quite a bit, but it's still, challenging to be here and, you know, deal with all the other nuances of life and your work. So those are our challenges in this farm.  And we're at some point, hopefully we're going to figure out what, that looks like for us.
11:50I understand completely. That's why I started a podcast so I could talk to people who were doing all the things that I would like to be doing, but we don't have room on our little homestead.  Oh, got it.  So we have a friend who drives around with a,  um,  Amy helps out with these events and the common. And one of them was there was a vendors. can't, I think it was a fall event  and this woman
12:14My daughter had to go to her house to get her goats because her car broke down and she had like a little petting station. So, my daughter had what? Six goats in her little Subaru. since then she's,  I think, raised her flock a little bit bigger. And  so she goes around and  she hires them out to eat patches of  sumac or poison ivy or whatever's out there.
12:44And that's just showing you how people have to be super innovative in 2025 to run a farm and actually make enough money to at least sustain it. You know, with those services. absolutely. And I wasn't saying you need to get goats because I would love to have goats. I shutter it for every time somebody says...
13:09Yeah, and with our farm, just, you know, every time somebody mentions four-legged animals, I'm just like, I panic inside because it makes me feel like I'd be just, I wouldn't be able to leave. I wouldn't be able to go away with my family, go to a music festival, go camping for a weekend, because of the animal. So that's our challenge with that. Yeah.
13:32Okay, then gardens are probably out too because you kind of can't leave a garden for a week at a time when it's high growing season.  Which is partially true. also, I'm  working on irrigation and learning about irrigation right now  because we got a lot of water on our property.  so that is partially true, but  it's also,  you know, we don't go away for that long.
14:00I don't like going away for that long. We usually go away for a couple, few days. You know, there's always somebody, one of my children here who can water.  and, and, as if we did bigger gardens,  um, and they started to evolve into just larger entities. Yeah, that would be, that would definitely be challenging. Uh, at that point we're kind of tied to the property of the summer.  Um, you know, just watching for pests or whatever. Um, you know, just have to be a part of it all the time. So absolutely.
14:30Yep.  We don't go anywhere here because  we're tied to the farm because of the chickens and the dog and the barn cats and the garden.  And luckily when we bought this place, one of the prerequisites when we were looking for our forever place was that it had to be a place we didn't want to leave.  And we found it and we love it and we just don't leave. mean,
14:55I, we went to my mom's 75th birthday party, like in 2021, and my son stayed here and took care of the chickens and the cats and the dog. And we were only gone for four days, like, like two, five days, four days of two days of hard driving a day and a half there and two days back from Minnesota to Maine. Wow. Yep.
15:22Yep. And I tried everything I could to get out of going to her birthday party because I knew it was going to be  nuts.  And then all of a sudden I was like, no, we need to go. Like in my heart, I knew we had to be there. so we went.  okay. So tell me about your  house because houses that old don't really last as long as yours have. So tell me about your 1800s. Yeah. So that's a really good question.  I
15:49I attribute the fact that the house is still standing  to the  strength and grit and perseverance of everyone who has lived here. We've been doing work on the house over the past 13 years and when you start peeling back the layers, you can see where people put a lot of care into things.  I think the fact that the same family has always been here  makes it really special.
16:19They don't make houses like this anymore.  On that note, when we purchased the house, when we first got here, we were just trying to wrap our heads around this kind of property, which took a long time.  There was a large pine tree off the back of the barn that was growing  and it was hanging over the backside of the barn and it had created some rot.
16:47Then we started to notice water coming in in the attic of our house. So we decided if we're going to keep this house and we're going to do this, we need to put new roofs on both structures. our first major construction  project was putting a metal roof on both buildings.  and,  but, you know, otherwise the house is really built well. There's there's it's good bones.  We've had to insulate it. There was no insulation in the house when we moved in.
17:16We've so we've been doing a little bit of work. We're upgrading the electric next next week  And just trying to move through and make our mark on it like the people before us Okay, yes, I have I have some specific questions about your house. I assume it's been built on to  um  it's so  The the house  is it's it's a Victorian
17:45like folk Victorian farmhouse style.  But there is a back  L that's more of a Cape.  James's aunt passed away a couple years ago and she was able to tell us a lot of stories because she grew up here. And apparently the back section was the original house, which had  been renovated. They added dormers, they raised the roof.  So there's been many different changes and renovations over the years. And it's kind of like
18:15kind of fun  to learn about it because it's sort of like an archaeological dig. can kind of  look at where the old roof line was on the back section.  right now, James is working on a project trying to  fix the sagging roof in the back section.  But all in all,  you know,  it's nice having the stories  from his aunt because we kind of have a picture of how things came to be.
18:42She told us the story about how the original house used to be down the hill by the river.  And apparently it was rolled up the hill on logs by Oxen.  Wow. Yeah. Like it's just neat. It's neat. But none of the house has been modernized. I think the most recent renovation was in the  1950s when there's a summer kitchen in the back L  and they built a 1950s Betty Crocker kitchen in the main house in the 50s.
19:12and a bathroom downstairs. So those are the last renovations or upgrades that have really been done.  Okay, cool.  My house is over 100 years old here in Minnesota  and they remodeled it completely the year before we saw it, we knew it was here.  You would never  know this house is that old. is so, I swear to God, every corner is plump.
19:41They remodeled it so beautifully. I keep trying to find someone who knows what it looked like before we moved in or before they did the remodel because  there used to be a bedroom downstairs and they remodeled it to where that bedroom is now part of the living room.  And they took some of the space from that little bedroom and made it into a walk-in closet, like storage closet with  hooks for hoes and things.
20:10It's so weird to me that I walk in and it looks like a brand new house and I know the house is over 100 years old. Yeah. So this place hasn't been altered.  It's in the same footprint and floor plan as it was when it was built,  which is kind of neat.  There's a butler's pantry in the summer kitchen. There's a  root cellar in the basement,  which  came complete with  canned goods dating back to the 60s when we moved.
20:39Oh my. Yeah, that was a fun cleaning project.  Yeah, it's pretty neat.  Yeah, it was back when people actually cooked and preserved food and did the things that you did then. Yeah, for sure.  It was a simpler way of life. It was not easier, but it was simpler. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so we hope that, I mean, we're...
21:03We're like around 50, the two of us. Our youngest kid is 14 and we kind of look to the future of like sort of retirement time when we can focus on just being here. And I think that is kind of what we're looking forward to as far as doing more farming kind of stuff. I love the fact that you're doing the hip camp thing because at least then people get to enjoy part of your land. Yeah. And that's why we do it. We get great people.
21:32It's, you know, it's carry in, carry out, leave no trace and people truly do not leave a trace.  Um,  it's nice. Yeah. All our guests have been very respectful.  Fabulous because you don't want disrespectful guests. would be  terrible. No,  no, no.  Um, I swear I read something on the listing for that, that you guys have bears in New Hampshire.
22:01Oh, yes.  Yeah, they're black bears. They're, they're, mostly harmless. Yeah, they're more afraid of you than you are, you know.  And we don't  often,  we have dogs, and that kind of deters them. But I did see one a couple weeks ago. I think he was just lost.  That happens.  Yeah, the, have you seen any baby bears at all? Sometimes when you're like driving down the street,  sometimes
22:28I've seen them, yeah, but not here, not in my place. There's a lot of dogs in this neighborhood, so you generally don't see, you'll see like a youth pass through and it's usually freaking out because the dogs are all barking everywhere.  And bears are terrified of dogs.  But  the problem with the bears is, you know, they might come around at night and you have people that are hip camping, a lot of them are not, and I'm not trying to generalize, but lot of them are usually not experienced campers.
22:55or experienced with the wilderness of New Hampshire. And so you will attract the black bear if you leave your food out. And that could lead to a potential engagement with an animal that, you know, could make a decision based on its dread on you and it could hurt you or it could damage your things. So we try to deter that. It's mostly to save the bear. mean, because a fed bear is a dead bear.
23:24Yeah, so I go into great detail in my hip camp listing about bear safety because we get a lot of travelers from the city who aren't quite acclimated to camping on undeveloped land.  So I just like to make sure they know what to expect.  Yes, you always want to hang your food in a bag from a tree branch that the bear can't get to. Exactly. And honestly, I'm not sure that matters because bears can climb trees.  can, yeah.
23:51Right now, this is a plentiful spring, so there's a lot of things growing in the woods. So bears generally are not looking for those easy meals unless it's just an opportunistic thing.  They're out in the woods, they're eating berries, they're eating the things they're supposed to be eating right now, and it's been such a wet spring that luckily they're not coming out of the woodwork. But if they were hungry, you know, that would bring...  We've had them on our porch before when we were  not putting our trash away properly. That invites them in.
24:21and we just want to protect them.  Good. I'm glad you want to protect the wildlife because those bears were there long before any humans showed up. So we should work. Definitely. All right, guys. Well, I'm going to actually cut this short because my dog is losing her mind outside. I don't know why.  So  I appreciate your time. Where can people find you?  So right now we just have a Facebook.  It's  the door family farm.
24:50D-O-R-R. Yeah, just on Facebook.  All right. Well, I really appreciate your time and thank you for talking with me about your old house because I love history and I love old houses. Thanks, And I wish you all the luck in pursuing whatever you want to do with this property because it has so much potential. Thank you so much.  As always, people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com.  You guys have a great night. Thank you. You too. Thanks, Mary. Bye-bye.
 

My Attempt At Homesteading

Today I'm talking with Jennifer at My Attempt At Homesteading.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Jennifer at My Attempt at Homesteading in Missouri. Good evening, Jennifer. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. What's the weather like in Missouri today? Very warm. Yeah, here too. It's 81. I think you guys are hotter than we are though.
00:29Yeah, we've we've been in the  90s for the past week or so. Oh  I'm in Minnesota We had  four or five days of that a week or so ago and it was disgusting. I hated every second of it  Okay, so  I hate saying this because people get kind of  Miffed that we talked before the interview before before I started recording  You were saying you're a little bit nervous because you're new at this and I was trying to say but the connection was bad
00:58that you are exactly the kind of person I want to talk with because  the beginners are the ones that give the people who haven't even started yet  hope. So  tell me about yourself and your attempt at homesteading.
01:12Um, well, so I am a mother of two. my youngest just graduated last year. So, um, he still lives at home, but he's in, he's in college, so he's kind of doing his own thing. Um, my oldest, she just moved out earlier this year. Um, so it was one of those things that.
01:39You know, my kids are kind of grown up and doing their own thing. And I kind of didn't know what to do with myself.  So used to taking care of them and just,  you know, even though they were older, but them just being around and just, you know, doing stuff with them. And, you know, I kind of took a step back and realized that, you know, I was, you know, for so many years I'd been, you know, the band mom or the softball mom.
02:08the karate mom or the track mom or, you know, all those things.  when I kind of slowed down for a minute, I realized that I didn't know who I was anymore because,  you know, they weren't doing those things anymore.  And  I realized I had, you know, no hobbies or anything like that because  my life had revolved around my kids for so many years.  So basically I needed something to do something to occupy my time.
02:38So I don't know actually what specifically made me start looking at, you know, different things, but I think it was just one of those like on a whim, I was like, oh, this looks like fun. So I just started like looking at things and reading up on things and I started very simple, like.
03:06looking up different homemade spice mixes.  And I just kind of started with that.  And  basically over the winter was kind of when I started  trying to dabble with different things and trying to see what kind of mixes and things I could make from scratch.  because  at that point I'd never canned anything.
03:35Um, pressure canner scared me. I, you know, I thought I was going to blow up the house. So, um, it took me a couple months before I would even attempt to do that.  Um,  but yeah, I just started small and,  uh, mixes and that type of thing. Like,  uh, I had no idea. Like I was amazed, like, you know, brown sugar, you know, who even knew that that was sugar and molasses. Like I had no clue. I just thought brown sugar that it just.
04:05came like this. didn't know that. I didn't know you, you know, mix things together to make brown sugar. So, you know, it's definitely been a learning process and it's definitely, you know, I've discovered so many things and still, you every day learning something new. But baby steps, you know, every day just, I mean, I'm constantly Googling things and trying to figure out, know.
04:34How do I do this or how do I  turn this into something or how do I maximize? You know, if I have this ingredient, how do I, or this,  um,  you know, thing, how do I use up  the whole thing without any kind of waste? And, um, it's definitely been a fun process.  Um,  uh, I've definitely been using my family as guinea pigs.  Um, they've been there for.
05:04some of my successes and definitely a lot of my not so much successes.  But it's been fun. Yeah. You're not alone. I didn't know that brown sugar was just white sugar and molasses mixed together either until I found out about it on Google.  And  I'm not going to lie, I'm still afraid of our pressure canner and our pressure canner is still practically brand new. We bought it three years ago.
05:33My husband is not afraid of it. So when we're going to pressure can, he's the one that handles it. Because I just, every time I walk by that thing, I'm like, it's going to blow up. It's going to blow up.  So you're not alone. And we've been canning for four years now. So  we did the  water bath canning to begin with. And he was like,  we're going to do the pressure canner. And I was like,  And he's like, oh, yes, we are. I'm like, OK, fine. Fine. You're handling it. I want to do it. So.
06:02So you are not alone in that, Jennifer, I promise you.  Yeah, I did. I definitely started with the water bath canning first, and then I kept seeing other things that I wanted to can.  But I kept reading that, you know, oh, well, this needs a pressure canner.  So,  you know, too many things needed to be pressure canned. So I was like, OK, I'm going to have to eventually learn how to do this.
06:32Definitely the first several times, you know, I was, I probably looked ridiculous because, you know, decked out in like long sleeves and oven mitt, you know, cause I just knew it was going to like explode on me or something, you know, know, head turn, know, reaching as far,  you know, as I could to put the  valve thing on it. But, but yeah.  But it didn't explode.
07:02Not, not yet. We're here, but it's still a little daunting. Yeah. And I don't want to sound trite or silly, but we are capable of doing big things and overcoming fear is a big thing and you're working on it. So proud of you. also I feel like women are always told that we're not supposed to do big
07:30hard things we're supposed to let the men do them. And that's bullshit. We can do it too. Oh yeah.  We can do just as much if not more than guys can do. Yeah, especially when we're 25  and aren't afraid of anything.  I'm 55 now. I'm like, no, you can deal with the pressure canter, honey. I'm all good with that.  Okay. So are you urban, suburban, or rural?
07:59We're suburban, so you know, we live in a very populated area. We have a pretty good size backyard. They did just pass,  I would say within the last...
08:17within the past year,  they did say that we could have chickens,  which  intrigues me.  I, it's something that the thought of it sounds really fun, but chickens just low keys kind of scare me. So I don't know. Like I love the thought of having fresh eggs and I would love to have that, but
08:47I don't know, just the beaks and the feet and the flapping wings just kind of scare me. So I just don't know. I mean, that's another one of those fears that I just, I'm gonna have to overcome one day, I think, but maybe one day.
09:03Okay, for future reference, and I'm not saying you need to go get chickens today, but for future reference, if you want chickens,  there is a breed called  Issa Brown. They used to be Issa Red, I S as in Sam A Brown. And they're really gentle. They're really friendly. They only get to be about seven pounds full grown. And they give an egg a day if you have light in the coop in the wintertime. And
09:33I didn't want chickens either. I mean, I did, but I didn't. And we got four when we lived in town, in a small town. And they were great. They're quiet. They do this, I laid an egg call and it's crazy.  I can't replicate it.  I can do a hell of a rooster crow, but I can't do the I laid an egg call.  And  they talk to each other. It's like listening to a babbling brook. It's very sweet.
10:00So if you're looking for ones that aren't aggressive and like to be held and picked up and don't freak out, those are the ones you might want to look into. Okay. Yeah. I'll have to check that out because I just, yeah, they just kind of scare me.  it's funny because my parents actually have chickens, but they didn't start raising chickens until after I had moved out of the house. So my sister's
10:27kind of grew up with them  and so they're used to them but I'm not used to them so that's not something I was used to being around so even now when I go over there  I don't want to go into the chicken pen and play with the  chickens.  Well they're not bunnies they're chickens. Bunnies are fun to pet chickens are not fun to pet.  Yeah but I would love to have the eggs one day so like I said it's just
10:56It's one of those fears that I think I'm going to have to figure out one of these days, but  I'm still working on the canning stuff. you know, one, one thing at a time. Yes.  Baby steps.  Start small, think big. That's what I, what I keep hearing. Start small, think big. So you're, we're well on your way to being a homesteader. promise.  Um, do you have any gardens at all? Any gardening space?  Um, we do.
11:23So actually we have We have like an indoor indoor garden and we have an outdoor garden  Surprisingly enough our indoor garden was actually doing better than our outdoor garden We actually started a lot of plants inside and then we kind of just let them go
11:46And we had, cause we do have a lot of space downstairs and we have a whole room that we had set up with grow lights and everything. And I mean, we had cucumbers growing. I had picked like, I think five or six good sized cucumbers before we transplanted it outside. But yeah, we had cucumber plants growing. We had peppers. We had a tomato plant growing. All of our herbs and stuff.
12:16going inside. I had started a luffa plant just because it sounded fun. So yeah, we had actually quite a bit going inside. We took them outside. I think it kind of shocked them. I don't think they were very happy with us when we did that. So it took a little bit for it to, I don't know, I guess acclimate to the outside, but they're starting to come around.
12:45You know, the tomatoes are starting to produce  the cucumbers. We've gotten a couple off of it since  it's been outside.  So yeah, they're starting, it's starting to, it's starting to come around.  Is this your first time doing a garden?  No, we have done it in the past, but we hadn't really  started a lot inside.
13:12We usually would just  plant them outside. We usually would just buy the plants and then just plant them outside.  So this is our first time  starting them inside and then  bringing them outside.  So that part was new for us.  Good job. It's a trick. When you start stuff inside, you have to kind of harden the plants off before you put them out in the garden.
13:37We've been gardening for 20 years and my husband completely forgot about hardening off the tomato plants because he started them in the heated greenhouse. And so our tomato  plants almost died when we put them outside.  He came in like two days after he planted them, he said,  it's a good thing we still have tomato plants in the greenhouse. And I said, what ate our tomatoes? And he said, nothing. He said, I completely forgot. You're supposed to harden them off. He said, they're all brown. I was like, oh no.
14:06So even someone who's been doing it for 20 years can screw it up too, if that helps at all.  Yeah, we do have, um, this is our first year. We're starting to get some strawberries. Nice.  We do have strawberry plants. We've tried those for several years and, um, we would try those and just like planters and,  uh, you know, we'd get a few  like during the season and then they would always die off and then.
14:36We had read that if you plant them in the ground, they would come back. So we had planted some, but not realizing that  like the first year they don't really produce. So I was really disappointed that first year. But  now this is the first year that we're actually starting to get some actually produced. So it's been several years in the making, you several years of just trial and error, but I think this will be the year that we actually might get.
15:06you know, at least a good, you know, handful, probably not enough to, you know, have a, you know, a big batch of strawberry jelly or anything like that. But, you know, maybe a good basket full or so.
15:25More than just one bite maybe. It will be the best tasting strawberry you've ever had in your life. Yeah, we have gotten a couple already and yes, were very good. I always say grow it yourself. Every freaking time, yes, absolutely. And that's why we do this.
15:51The other thing that I will say to you and I will say to listeners is that patience is like the key quality or  as another word for it,  quality that people who are growing things need to have because  we planted asparagus crowns here four springs ago. It took until this spring to actually get enough asparagus picked from our  bed to have like three sides.
16:20of asparagus with three meals. So patience is a virtue and  I didn't used to be very patient.  am  now  and thank God because we put those crowns and I was like, yes, asparagus. And I was like, crap, it's going to be three years before we get any.  Yeah.  And I've heard that and  I need to, I need to just plant some, but that's why I have it. Cause I'm like, oh, it's going to be three years. But if I had just done that, you know,
16:50A couple years ago, we may have already had some by now, but every time I think about it, I'm like, oh, we won't even get any this year. It'll still be another, you know, three years, but I need to just do it though. Yeah. There's a saying about when's the best time to plant a tree a hundred years ago. When's the next best time to plant a tree yet now. And it's the same thing with asparagus. When's the best time to plant asparagus? Five years ago. When's the next best time? Right now. Yeah.
17:20And if you're gonna do it,  look on Google or ask someone who knows. I don't know if you're supposed to put them in in the spring or the fall. We put them in in the spring. So you'll have to ask somebody who knows more than I do about that one.
17:37Yeah, we did. I did say too, like we have a, we have a small garden. So, you know, I mean, enough to kind of get a few things here and there, but nothing like huge. I did say, you know, we may be just supporting some of our local, you know, our local farmers or some of our local, you know, um,
18:04What are they like produce stands that type of thing like  at the farmers market? Yeah  Absolutely, and if your garden really produces I bet there's somebody who has laying hens who has extra eggs and you can trade your produce for eggs Then you don't have to get any hens  Yeah, there you go  Because  as I'm always saying on the podcast if you're not gonna grow it or produce it
18:32Find someone local who is growing it and producing it and barter or give them your hard earned money because they're earning it.  Because a local economy is a good economy. Yes.  And I'm saying that to you, but I'm also saying it to anybody listening to the podcast. Anyone who isn't finding their local growers and producers right now  needs to be.  Absolutely.
19:02and there's a lot of reasons for that and I'm not going to get into it but just take my word for it. Go find out who makes things or grows things and get to know them  and support them because they're going to be really important over the next year or two. Yes, which is probably why I should be making a bigger garden but...
19:22You are starting out and you are learning things and you're doing a great job. Don't  do not sound like you're beating yourself up. You have nothing to beat yourself up about.  So I saw canning jars on your Instagram page and you said that you've been canning. So what have you tried your hand at canning?
19:43Um,  so  I've done a few different types of jellies.  Um, I've done different, different types of beans.  Um, I've done like,  um, like the different broths, like chicken broth, beef broth, vegetable broth,  um, which actually those come in, those come in handy and those definitely taste way better than, you know,
20:13store, store bought.  So much so too that, you know, my daughter, she'd even, she had called me and said, you know, hey, if I,  if I say this chicken carcass, will you,  will you make me some, some chicken broth? I was like,  yeah, that's sure. That's fine.  So she had saved like leftover chicken, chicken bones and stuff that they had had from, you know, a chicken that she had cut up and
20:43stuck it in the freezer just so I would make her some homemade chicken broth also. I love that. That's awesome. That's fantastic that she asked you because  my daughter lives in Florida and I live in Minnesota, so nothing like that is going to happen here. But when she lived in Minneapolis and was not far from home, she would
21:09she would come to visit and we would send her home with bags of tomatoes and cucumbers because she was vegetarian. I don't think she was vegan. I think she was vegetarian. And she always let me know  whether she called or she messaged that they were the best tomatoes and cucumbers ever because they were from our garden. So I love that your daughter asked you to do that. That's fantastic.  Yeah.
21:33Yeah, we've been trying to make a lot of things as much as as much as we can just trying to find different substitutes for trying to make things  more homemade if we can trying to cut out a lot of the process things  like my son, you know, he he's a sucker for those frozen
22:00Timmy Changas that you can get from Walmart. And so I started making them for him.  I  made his refried beans homemade and I made his tortillas homemade and wrapped them all up and  shaped them and froze them for him and stuck them in the freezer so he could have them homemade. And  for him to tell me that they taste way better than the store bought ones,  that just...
22:29makes you just feel  like all that time and effort is worth it because they're appreciative of it  and you know that they're getting way better quality stuff than  the frozen stuff that they're getting from the store.  Yes, and on top of that, they're getting the love that you add to the things that you make and that's what makes it special.
22:55Yeah, and sometimes some extra garlic too because sometimes I go a little overboard with the garlic.  Yup, and if you're anything like me, a couple swear words thrown in too.  Yeah, maybe a few here and there.  Yeah, and that leads me to my next question. Did I see that you've tried making sourdough bread or was that just  regular bread?  Oh, yes, I've tried.
23:19I've  made some sourdough bread and I think that's one of those things that I've said that I don't know that I'm going to be a sourdough baker.  It's it's one of those things that comes and goes and every time I think I got it, it just,  I don't know, it's just like, nope, try again. So I was like, I don't think I'm ever gonna be one of those people that is going to have, you know, a sourdough  bakery or a little
23:49you know, job sourdough bread stand, because I just can't seem to get the hang of it. So, and  I'm definitely not consistent enough to want to try to sell it. I'm just going to keep feeding it to my family.  They're just going to like it.  Yeah, there was a reason I asked. I have two sourdough starters on my counter downstairs that I need to feed when I'm done talking with you.  And I pulled them out of the fridge yesterday because they're established. And I was like,
24:19I really want to keep doing this because it's so much time involved in actually making the bread itself and I'm busy the only day I have where I have hours just to screw around with it is Sundays and I looked at my husband and I said  Sundays from for the next four Sundays I need the entire day without you guys in the kitchen under my feet
24:44And he was like, why? I said, because if I'm going to do this sourdough thing, it's going to have to be Sundays because Monday through Friday, I'm doing podcast interviews and I can't walk away from the process to go do that. And he was like, how many hours you need? said, eight. He said, he said, we can be out of the kitchen for eight hours. I said, okay. I said,
25:09I don't really  mind if you don't want me to do it. said, cause it's a lot of work for a couple loaves of bread. I said, but I said,  those loaves of bread cost me about 50 cents each. And the loaves of bread at the store, even the yucky store brand ones are about $2 a loaf. said, so  you've got the yay or the nay here. Do you want me to try doing it? And he was like, yeah. He said that first loaf tasted really good. I was like, okay.  And I'm never going to be the fancy sourdough bread lady. I don't care.
25:39I want a loaf of bread that tastes good. That's all I want.  Yeah.  So. I'm figuring out how I just, I don't know. Like sometimes they'll come out good and sometimes they won't. And I just can't figure out like why they do sometimes and why they don't. Well, I saw something on the sourdough for beginners Facebook group that said that you want the  internal temperature.
26:08of the bread to be like 218 degrees and I have an electric thermometer that I could actually check that with but I didn't know until the first loaf was made  and my first loaf came out dense because I under proofed it and I under cooked it by about five minutes. So now that I know I need to let it proof longer and I know the internal temperature it's supposed to be maybe the next one will turn out a little fluffier. Maybe. Yeah.  But.
26:37It's kind of putsy. It's kind of meticulous. And I really do love the zen  of it, like the process, but I don't love how much time it takes.  Yeah, it's, I mean,  I do like the fact that, you know, the sourdough is easier to digest and doesn't give you as much, like doesn't seem to give as much bloating and that type of stuff. And, you know, that great, but
27:07for  us,  know, the yeast type breads, like the homemade yeast breads and stuff, they taste just as good and they're just as,  well, they're quicker for me. And  for me, I usually get better,  more consistent results. I will still try sourdough bread,  but yeah,  that's just one of those things I just  haven't been able to figure out quite yet.
27:37It's practice and I just started mine like a month and a half ago and that's why I'm like, oh sourdough, yeah, I'm going through that now too.
27:48I did make a ginger bug though and that, like, you know, that's the whole fermentation thing and everything and like that was way easier. So I don't know why sourdough didn't work out, but the ginger bug was way easier. So  I don't know anything about that. you tell me what that is? Yeah. So that's, that's where you take like the water and you add sugar and fresh ginger. And basically it, it ferments also, it makes like bubbles and then you add it to.
28:17You can add it to like juices and that type of thing. And it basically gives you like, um,  the fizz. So you can make like your own, um, kind of fizzy drinks and you can,  know, your own  homemade sodas and that type of thing, but it's. You know, healthier and more, um, kind of like a probiotic type drinks. Cause it's again, easier for your,  um, for digestion and that type of thing. Um, so.
28:47You know, I just,  found a recipe that somebody had shared for making their own homemade Dr. Pepper, because I stopped drinking a lot of sodas, but they had been trying  to replicate the taste of Dr. Pepper. So I just made some of that and I'm going to add my ginger bug to it and try  to make like a healthier version for  Dr. Pepper's without, you know.
29:17without drinking the normal sugary version of it, I guess.  See, you're new to homesteading and you just taught me something I didn't even know about. So thank you for that.  And there's, well, I mean, and there's probably 50 million other things though that I haven't even come across yet because every time like people post so many different things that.
29:44Like every time I get on and look at recipes and stuff, people are always coming up with all kinds of neat things. that's, that I think is the fun thing about people sharing all their different recipes and things that they've tried. Um, and you can tweak them however you want, you know, you know, as far as like food allergies or that type of thing or, but that's been, that's been the fun thing too, is just trying the different things. Oh, absolutely. And.
30:14I love that the reason you got into this is because you basically needed a project because your kids didn't need you as much as they used to because I started the podcast for the same reason  two years ago.
30:28Yeah, I needed a hobby.  I realized  I didn't have any hobbies.  Yep.  I started the podcast because my youngest was going to be moving out. He's the youngest of four. And I was like, I need a project because I'm not going through emptiness syndrome  without a project because all I will do is cry. And so I was like, I'm going start a podcast. That'll be a good project. I know nothing about it.  and they say that, I'm going to screw this up.  Men.
30:57have midlife crisis and they buy a sports car and they get a young girlfriend.  Women have midlife crisis and they take on a new project or they start a business.
31:09Yeah, I believe it. We just, we just find more stuff to keep us busier.  Yeah. And cost less money and maybe be a little more productive. So I kind of like our version better.  All right, Jennifer, this was great. I tried to these to half an hour. We're there.  People can find you on Instagram  at myattempt at homesteading. that right? Yes. Are you on Facebook at all?
31:38Yes,  but I don't really have a homesteading account on Facebook though. Okay, all right, cool.  Thank you so much for your time and as always people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com.  Jennifer, I hope you have a really good night. Thank you, you too. Bye. Bye.
 

The Homestead Farm at Fruit Hill Orchard

Today I'm talking with Emily at The Homestead Farm at Fruit Hill Orchard.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters, and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Emily  at the Homestead Farm at Fruit Hill Orchard  in Virginia. Good morning, Emily. How are you? Good morning. I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on today. Thank you for making the time. I know that you guys are all very, very busy people.  How is the weather there today?
00:28It is sunny. It's beautiful.  The past week or so we've had a thunderstorm every day.  So, um, I don't know what's coming up later, but right now it's just beautiful. Yeah, I'm in Minnesota and it is very sunny. There's a light breeze, but it's also like 80 degrees with heavy humidity. So  I'm to be spending the day working on my podcast inside. Cause that seems like a good idea. Nice.  Yep.
00:57have laptop, we'll get work done. That's good.  So tell me about yourself and what you do.  So  I am an owner of the Homestead Farm at Fruit Hill Orchard.  We opened in 2016.  I am a farmer,  a baker.  I do all the stuff behind the scenes. I manage our social media.  I plan our events. kind of the
01:28everything at the farm,  which is a lot, but  yeah, it's great.  we
01:40The farm has been in our family since right  after the Civil War.  My great-great-grandfather James Swate opened an apple and peach packing plant there.  And then my grandfather  carried on the tradition and has been farming there  since the 60s, I believe.  So the property has been in our family for a really long time.
02:08Kind of why we got our name the Homestead Farm, because it's on our family's homestead. And then the Fruit Hill Orchard part comes from my grandfather's orchard business, which is Fruit Hill Orchard. nice. So do you have old photos from from generations past? Yes, we do. We so my grandfather, his grandmother grew up there.
02:36And we have pictures of her out back with  the old windmill, which funny story, she  accidentally  rolled her car into the windmill and knocked it over in the  80s, I think.  And  we  have since put a new windmill up in her honor. But  yeah, we have old photos of the family. The building next door that was the Apple and Peach packing plant, that used to be a barn,  but now it is a
03:06warehouse type building,  but we have pictures of that before they enclosed the barn area and change that around.  Yeah, old pictures of the house. Our farm market was actually the carriage barn  where my grandmother stored her car and my great grandmother,  um, stored her car. So  yeah, lots of interesting history there for sure. And pictures.  I love it.  Um,
03:35the reason I asked is our house is over a hundred years old  and We've only been living here for almost five years and I keep trying to find someone who knows anything about the property because it's been here a long time  and Nobody lives around here that knows anything about it from a hundred years ago So I'm out of luck on the history Yeah, you'll have to do some diggings.  Yeah, there's a  Historical Society in the town up from us
04:05So they might have something I got to get up there this summer and  ask and be like, so what do you know about this address in  LaSore, Minnesota? Cause I need history. need it. I need it right now.  So I'm sure there's a ton of it too. So hopefully you can find it. I hope so. Cause I'm so curious. I've been told that there was a real barn here and it got torn down or a storm took it out years ago.
04:32And now we have this big ugly maroon and cream colored pole barn. And every time I look at the pole barn, I'm like, I wish the old barn was still here because that would have given this place so much more character. Yeah. Oh, but it's long gone. you know, what are you going to do? Okay. So what do you guys do at the farm? You have an art, you have an orchard.
04:57We have an orchard that has been there for many, many years.  That is part of Fruit Hill Orchards original orchard. That's apples and peaches. And then we also grow our garden produce there.  We do tomatoes, beans, peppers, squash, cornmelons, blackberries, and that is all chemical free. We don't use any  chemicals on our gardens or our berries at all.
05:27We also source local and organic produce whenever we don't have something or ours isn't ready yet. Because chemical free and organic is super important to me. And then same with the bakery.  We source local fruits,  local eggs, as many organic  ingredients as possible.  And those are all,  all of our baked goods are all homemade.
05:56From scratch in our bakery, we also raise cattle. I have chicken, so we have some of our own meat and eggs for sale. We also have a sugar shack, which has hand dipped and soft serve ice cream and all kinds of toppings and specials and things like that. Trying to think. We also have some events.
06:26Every  year our big Sunflower Festival is coming up on September 6th this year,  which is huge for us. Our little place gets thousands of attendees that day.  And then we have a Farm and Makers Market that comes up on  the last Saturday of every month.  So  we love to support other locals,  people that are maybe homesteading or doing something that they don't have.
06:54a farm stand or a place to sell, love to try to help them out and get some of their products in our store.  We also, a big one for us is Bluegrass on Thursday nights. We have a back porch jam,  live music. It's just a bunch of local musicians that come out  and play and we serve a dinner that night  and it's a lot of fun. So we are really busy. We've got a lot going on at the farm.
07:23all the time.  Wow. Yeah, that's a lot.  Okay.  So I have two questions. The sugar shack that's on your property. Okay. Yes. It is right beside our farm market. We  built it. We kind of connected the sugar shack that's there now to  the cooler we had  already existing.
07:51So it's just a small little building right beside our farm market. That's awesome. I love that. I bet it's adorable.  And then you don't have to tell me specifics, but do you have a lot of land for your farm? So the farm that we have at the market here, that the land is split up between my mom and her sister.
08:17And it is in total, it's 300 acres, but we are only farming about 10 of that ourselves  that's not orchard. And most of our fields are like sunflower. We do the Sunflower Festival. So we have a two acre sunflower field  and then we do a big pumpkin patch  and  then our produce is on the rest.
08:45Okay, so what do you do with the sunflowers? So we grow them,  let people come out and pick them, we sell them  per stem, but we  just let people come out and enjoy them. Mainly we don't charge entry. The  only time we do charge entry is to our sunflower festival,  but otherwise if our markets open,
09:12People are welcome to go out and enjoy the flowers, take photos. We had one lady,  her family spread her ashes out there because she loved sunflowers. So we had memorial services out there.  But yeah, the sunflowers are a huge draw. We're kind of known in Winchester as the sunflower farm.  That is so cool. Yeah.
09:37We grow sunflowers here, but we only grow like a row of them because we think that they're pretty. And they grow so easily. if anyone has a patch they just want to happiness in, throw in some sunflower seeds.
09:55Yes, exactly.  We don't have a way to really to water ours once the seeds are in. So we kind of just depend on  God and the weather to take care of it for us.  So yeah, they are really easy. We throw our seeds out and every year we have a pretty good crop.
10:17Do you grow different colored ones or are they just all that really kind of orange yellow?  All of the ones in the big field are that orange yellow. We grow some specialty ones in rows like we do the  ones with the white petals or we do like the black center with the orange petals or the red ones.  So we do grow a variety but they're not the variety of those colors are not in the big field.
10:45Yeah, we grow some cream colored ones that are absolutely gorgeous.  love them. Those are my favorite too. They're so pretty.
10:55Yeah, and if you put them with  the reddish brownish ones,  they remind me of autumn. If you put the cream ones with  the reddish brownish ones, they're really pretty together in a vase.  Oh, yeah. Yeah, and we grow those too.  My son actually started it because he was like, can we grow sunflowers? Not we have room. And I was like, yes. And he had us order like a variety pack of sunflower seeds. So they were all different colors.
11:24He said, so what colors will come up? And I was like, I don't know.  It's a waiting game. It'll be like Christmas when they bloom.  we had so many different colors. He was like, I love this. Can we do this every year? said, yes, yes, we can. Did you guys save your seeds from the sunflowers?  Some of them, yes. Yeah.  We tend to leave ours for the birds.  We buy a new seed every year just because it's so much that we need.
11:53But yeah, it's amazing to see like all the birds and wildlife out there enjoying the sunflowers once they've dried up and died. So it's a win-win to enjoy them and then also  be doing that.
12:10Yes, here in Minnesota, because we get snow in November, December, January, February, and March, for sure. We leave a lot of the heads on the plants so that the birds can have seed and that way we're not buying bird seed from the store. Yeah, that's great. They seem to appreciate it. Yeah, they do. So, okay. So, so is the, is the farm or the homestead or whatever, um, supporting itself or do you have an outside job?
12:42So, nope, that is my job. It is supporting itself. I have been, so I have two kids and I have been working, well, we opened the farm in 2016 and we're seasonal. So I don't technically have a job in the winter time when we're closed. We have a couple months of downtime and I bake cakes during that time for some extra income.
13:12So, yeah.  Congratulations on doing something you love and making it go. Thank you.  I do. This was a dream of mine. And I'm so happy that it's working out. We're on our ninth season, so that's pretty huge.  Every year gets a little better and better.  I've started sourcing a lot more  products for the market that are
13:40super healthy, like real food, nutrient dense food, clean ingredients, free of seed oils, all that kind of stuff. I've been on my own health journey since I had my daughter in 2020. So it inspired me to just clean up my life and also offer these kind of products in our store. And it's really working out well. So I'm super happy about that. Okay, so
14:11I hate to use the word competition because I feel like farmers and homesteaders aren't really in competition.  Are there people who are doing kind of the same thing as you are anywhere near you? Let's not call it competition. There are a lot of farms,  small homesteads in Frederick County,  farm markets.  There's a lot of them here.  And there's one that's like two miles down the road from us.
14:37but they don't grow their own stuff. It's very different.  I don't like the word competition. I don't feel like we're in competition  with them because we're so different, if that makes sense. And what we offer is very different.  But as far as like the other farms that would be doing stuff that's similar to us,  we  all support each other and I love it. It's just this community of
15:05people who  we really do work together. mean, I bake some baked goods for another farm that's down the road and I get some meat from them for what we don't have. And it's like that just with a lot of the other farms. I get eggs from another farm and we're all just kind of in this together. know,  people are waking up, they're wanting local food, they're wanting to know their farmer and
15:34I think that it's more important now than ever.  And  so there's room for all of us  to succeed. Yes. And I'm going to say this for probably at least a hundred time during the tenure of my podcast.  All are a rising tide raises all ships. And that's what you're doing.  And you're right.  Now is the time. It wasn't the time before.  Now is the time for  all these small communities.
16:04to get to know each other and work together and produce food and produce products because  things could get real, real chaotic here in the next six months, especially this winter. So if you grow anything, produce anything, make anything,  get to know the other people who are doing it too and start like a little community so that your bigger community has a place to go for things. Yes. Yes, I love that.
16:33do feel like that's what we're doing here  in Frederick County, that's for sure.  There is a group, one of my friends started, it's called Frederick County Homesteaders,  and she creates a shop local guide, and there's a farm crawl twice a year where  people buy a ticket and they go around and visit all the participating farms.  And  that's something that I think that a lot of counties and communities
17:02should start. think she's going to offer a course on how to start up  a local chapter, I guess, for people who really don't know where to start but want to start something like that in their community.  But it has brought me together with  so many  of these small farms  and connected us all. And it's really cool to be a part of that and to have that here in our community.
17:31Awesome.  The other thing that I wanted to work into the podcast today and now is a good time to do it  is over the next six to eight months,  if you have relatives that are having a hard time now,  make sure you keep tabs on them and you  check in and see where you can help because  my parents live in Maine. I live in Minnesota. I'm really lucky that my sister  lives a couple of miles down the road from my parents.
18:01Because right now, if she wasn't there, I would be very concerned about my parents. They are elderly people. So make sure you check in with your neighbors and  not just your friends, but your neighbors and make sure they're doing okay. Yeah,  that's very important.
18:22We've all got to look out for each other.
18:27Yes, and if you're growing a garden and you know your neighbor likes tomatoes and you have a bunch that you're not going to use, offer them up.
18:36Yes, I love that. And it doesn't even have to be tomatoes. could be peas. It could be lettuce. It could be cucumbers. It could be squash, whatever. But just if you have a lot, give it  to people who need it.
18:50Yeah. I'm a little worried about the world. Can you tell? Hey, I'm there with you, but I think that it's going to be okay. We all are working together and I do think the majority of people are looking out for one another. I really hope it's true. I really want that to be true.
19:20Okay, so  what do people tell you when they come to visit your place? What's the, I don't know, general consensus on their experience with your place?  I get a lot of positive feedback, which makes me so happy because we work really hard and to hear those kind of things makes all that hard work super worth it.  I get a lot of people that thank us for
19:46growing our produce the way that we do without chemicals  and for carrying some certified organic produce.  And  we are also a raw milk pickup location  for another farm in West Virginia that is able to sell pet milk. And so people thank us for being an outlet for that.  And I've been posting a lot on our social media stories.
20:16And it's brought a lot of new customers in and I hear often that people love my videos and  I'm blown away by all the love and support that we are receiving. So yeah, it's, all good stuff. It makes it so worth it when people  tell you stuff that's positive because then you have the gas in your tank to keep going, to keep working, even though sometimes you have a bad day.  Yeah.
20:46once had a lady tell me she comes every year and she said she traveled 2000 miles for the best peach pie she's ever had in her life and that the trip is totally worth it and I just couldn't believe that someone would want to travel that far for one of our peach pies.
21:10So that was really,  really flattering.  That's a hell of a commute, but if it's for the best peach pie ever, it's worth it.  Yeah, I don't know if she was coming to the area already, but she comes through Virginia once a year  and  stops for the peach pies. So that's really awesome. That's high praise, Emily. Take it when you can get it.
21:37Um, so you said you have peach trees. Do you have a lot of peach trees? We do. I don't know exactly how many, um, but we grow freestone yellow peaches. grow freestone white. And if you don't know, freestone means that they fall off the pit easily. Um, and they, probably peel easier too, if they're a freestone. We also grow some semi-freestones. Um, and then we grow some clings.
22:08The clings are a yellow peach and they cling to the pit so they don't fall off easily.  But a lot of people want the free stone and I just have to say the cling peaches are the best for canning if you want to can like peach slices  or  freeze them because unlike some of the other peaches, these cling peaches hold their shape and they hold up  and
22:37have like such a good flavor  whenever you open that can of  canned peaches and or frozen peaches.  And so  I always try to tell people that they should try the clings even though they're not as easy to  cut. They are totally worth all the work when you're processing them.  And yeah, so we have a variety of different kinds.
23:06on the farm,  but the most popular would be the yellow freestone peaches, which are what we're picking right now.  I am so jealous. We don't really have a lot of peach growers in Minnesota. We grew peaches last year. Our trees did not bloom this year for some reason.  So we have two peach trees here that are cold hardy. And we did get peaches last fall off of those trees and they were so good and we're not going to have any this year. I am so sad.
23:36We did lose a lot to frost this year. We had an early spring frost  and the peaches that we do have  are  really great. Like the size of them is even  bigger because there weren't as many on the trees.  But yeah, it just depends on the weather again with  the crop. Thankfully we have some though. We're super thankful for what we do have.
24:04Yes, I'm sure you are because man, it is just such a bummer when you think you're going to have trees loaded and there's not a single one.  Do you can? Do you can peaches yourself? do. Yes.  That's one of my favorite things to can. Okay. I have a question because we want it. We were talking about canning our own peaches this year.  We don't have any can, but if we had, we would have.  And we bought a whole bunch of peaches a couple of years ago from
24:32the My Fruit Truck company and they were lovely peaches and we canned them and they turned brown. They're fine, they're edible, but they're brown. Do you know how to keep the peaches from turning brown when they're canned? Did you just can them in water or did you do a simple syrup? I don't remember. Is the simple syrup the trick?
24:58That would be yeah, the sugar in the syrup would keep them from turning brown.  And then some in some cases you can add a little like splash of lemon juice or so, but  I don't ever do that. I just do I make the light syrup. I use the recipe in the ball canning  complete canning book. It's you know, the little one you can get at almost any store that sells the canning supplies.  There's a recipe in there for light syrup  and
25:28Yep, that's the one that I use. And I don't like a ton of sugar.  I personally don't even eat  refined sugar at all.  So last year I experimented making a honey syrup  and that actually worked out really well.  And the peaches didn't turn brown, but I do think that they have a  better flavor when they're canned in that light syrup versus the honey.  in the water.
25:55If it was just canned in water only, that would be  why they would turn brown. think.  Yeah. I do not remember. It was like three summers ago and I have slept many nights since then.  Yeah.  But thank you because I've been trying to figure it out and I have that, that canning book you're talking about. So will look for that recipe.  And if you, if anybody wants to go into canning,  the ball books, any of them, anything that was produced by ball company is good. They're a good book.
26:26Yeah, I look in there for almost everything. I do my green beans,  the recipe out of there for green beans. I do  pickles out of there.  I've done jam and jelly. So a lot of things I turn to the ball book for.  Yep, absolutely. It's like the Bible of canning.  So  you said you have a bakery.  Do you mean literally a bakery? you, you, um,
26:53licensed to sell commercially or are you talking like a home a home-based bakery? So we are inspected by the Virginia Department of Agriculture. So our kitchen is certified. We had to do that for our business to be able to sell meals on our bluegrass nights. So we typically have to take a serve safe course every five years.
27:19to maintain  certification to serve food. And then we have a yearly inspection in our kitchen.  It's a full kitchen. So we do our baking there, but we also do food prep there as well.
27:37Okay. Awesome. And you just proved my statement that I talk about all the time on the podcast, that every state has different rules and regulations  for cooking and selling what you cook. Because in Minnesota,  we have the cottage food producer registration, which makes it so you can  make baked goods and things in your kitchen and sell them as long as you are present.
28:02And then we have the commercial licensing that you can get where you have to take the big class, you have to pay for the class, you have to get  the piece of paper that says, yes, you took the classes, yes, you have the license to sell anywhere and you can ship your goods anywhere. Yeah. And we have that in Virginia too, the cottage food law. A lot of the small homesteads around are operating off of that because they can sell their baked goods  to the consumer.
28:31without a license. But for us, we, I mean, we could have done the same thing, but we were expanding into serving meals. And that's a whole nother  ball game with,  you know, the licensing and stuff. Plus  having the certified kitchen, it does give us the option to wholesale. And I do wholesale some baked goods elsewhere. So that is,  that gives us the ability to do that.
29:01But yeah, I think every state does do things a little bit differently.
29:07They sure do.  I have talked to a lot of people over the last 22 months and yes,  every state is different in some way and it's what makes it work. So I'm okay with that.  I should have asked you at the beginning. Did you start out small with all of this or did you just jump in with both feet and hope that you could swim?  Well, we did start out small. Every year we've gotten a little bit bigger and we're still pretty small.
29:36But  our first year,  we didn't hire anybody. Well, we hired one person to help in the gardens three days a week, but it was just my mom and I,  and we didn't have any fancy equipment.  The orchards had a tractor and my aunt had a disc.  And so  we would borrow that and disc our field because we didn't even have like a tiller or anything.
30:03And we would disc our field and then we would use a wheel plow, like a push behind, like you push it and it digs the ditch.  And so we would do that. We would hand weed, put straw down. And then about our fifth season in,  after, mean, we would hand water everything and it would take like two hours each day on the hottest days. So  we, um, eventually were like, you know,
30:31we need to buy some equipment to help us. So we purchased a tiller,  we got a  plastic mulch layer so we could do the rows with the plastics that we didn't have to  weed as much.  And then we got a water wheel planter that we could ride on and pop the plants in the ground with it.  And so that was a game changer for our gardens.  It's a huge deal for us.
30:59to have that and then,  we still are  doing things pretty simple though. I mean, we plant our rose in the plastic  and don't have to hand water of course, cause we do the drip irrigation now, but  we still have to maintain in between the rows and we just weedy and mow to make it look nice.  So yeah, we and.
31:27for like that's just the gardens but for the rest of the store I didn't hire a baker my mom looked at me she's like who's gonna bake for this and I was like I guess I am I always made cakes when I was a kid and I love baking so I just jumped right in and decided I would be the baker and I would make pies you should have seen the huge bowl of pie dough I was making up every week
31:55And, you know, making it by hand, rolling it out by hand.  I'm cutting up all the fruit for the fillings, making everything from scratch.  And so  probably our third year in, my stepfather gifted me a giant mixer, which that was a game changer for the kitchen and the baking. Cause then I could mix up large batches of cake. I could mix my pie dough in that.
32:22And so, yeah, I would say we definitely have taken baby steps and it's taken us  about this long to kind of get to where I feel super confident in everything that we're doing. I kind of know  the ropes of everything. I feel like I've finally got it,  got it down to know like, you know, that we're making it and  that I kind of just know what I'm doing now.
32:50If that makes sense.  It totally does. And you're proving the point that anything worth having is  worth waiting for  and that you don't start out an expert. Everything is a learning curve and you are now at  the far end of the learning curve. So  again, congratulations, Emily, for  having the courage and  whatever it took to get this started and get this far because it's a lot.
33:19Thank you. And my mom, she's a huge part of this with me.  We're business partners and  we have done everything together and she's amazing.  So I definitely have not done this all on my own.  We're a great team when it comes to the business and yeah, I'm so thankful for her  because it would not have been possible without her.  One thing to mention too is we also...
33:47on my mom's farm at her house, have a wedding venue.  so that,  my mom really focuses on that. She's the wedding manager  and gets everything ready.  And so having the weddings has really helped out our farm because it's all kind of falls under the same business, two different locations though.  But yeah, that's another.
34:14another thing that has really helped us to have extra income and be able to do more with everything.
34:23Fantastic. I love it. And shout out to mom. Good job, mom. Congratulations, mom too.  All right, Emily, I try to keep these to half an hour. We're almost 35 minutes. So where can people find you? You can find us  online  at the Homestead Farm, sorry, www.homesteadfarmmarket.com. We are on Facebook.
34:47the Homestead Farm at Fruit Hill Orchard. We are on Instagram at the Homestead Farm VA.  And then if you are traveling through Winchester, Virginia, you can find us  at 2502 North Frederick Pike, Winchester, Virginia 22603.  We are open with the farm market and the sugar shack. Typically April through November, we do a small Christmas shop and then we close up.
35:15January, February, March. But anyway, yes, thank you so much for having me on here and I look forward to hearing more of your podcasts and yeah, thank you. Thank you. And as always, people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com. Emily, I hope you have a wonderful weekend. Thank you. You too. Happy 4th of July. Yeah. Happy Independence Day. Thanks so much, Emily. a great day. Thanks. You too. Bye.
 

Peaceful Pastures

Today I'm talking with Amanda at Peaceful Pastures.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters, and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis.  A Tiny Homestead podcast is sponsored by Homegrown Collective, a free-to-use farm-to-table platform emphasizing local connections with ability to sell online, buy, sell, trade in local garden groups, and help us grow a new food system.  You can find them at homegrowncollective.org.
00:26Today I'm talking with Amanda at Peaceful Pastures in Michigan. Good afternoon, Amanda. How are you? Hi there. How are you?  I'm good.  You said the weather's really nice in Michigan? Yes, it's beautiful today. We finally broke that heat spell that we had last week and the humidity has gone down and it's just perfectly sunny. So it's great today.
00:50So you're having a top weather day in Michigan, just like we are in Minnesota. It's really nice here today too.  That sounds great. I'm glad it's just as nice for you. Yeah, the spring has been actually pretty moderate. I have been,  I dare say impressed with Mother Nature this year.  So tell me about yourself and what you do at Peaceful Pastures. Well, my name is Amanda. I'm a mother to two. I have an eight-year-old son and a six-year-old daughter.
01:19My husband is here with me too. His name is Andrew. We like to jokingly call him Goat Daddy.  We kind of jumped into Peaceful Pastures, kind of like an overnight deal.  We weren't really looking to sell our house and happened upon this property, just a little over seven acres, and we kind of jumped on it and looked, put it on offer, and right away it became ours.  And overnight I went and crazily
01:47purchased Nigerian Dwarf goats  and one of them was pregnant and so it began with our livestock. So we now have 13  and we have a mini Dexter cow. Her name is Betty and we have chickens.  Awesome. it is absolutely do a little bit of everything here. Yes.  Fantastic. So if your name is Amanda and your husband's name is Andrew,
02:17Do you ever get Mandy and Andy as nicknames?  Oh, yes, we do.  All the time.  I have this thing in my head that I do all the time and I rarely ever tell people about it because I think it'll freak them out. But I always end up having nicknames for people that I like. And  one of my friends on Facebook, and she was also in a writing group online with me,  her name is Janna.
02:46For the longest time when I would see her name, would think Jana Banana. Oh, and I never, I never told her that. And I was like, I got to stop doing this, but my brain just does all these weird associations with names. So,  so if you were friends with me, you would be Mandy and your husband would be Andy in my head. That's okay.  My husband always gets called Andy Pandy. So  it works.  Yep. Absolutely.  Um, okay. So do you guys have a garden as well?
03:16We do.  actually have a quite large garden this year.  Last year we had a great time with it and a perfect harvest. So I went ahead and jumped it up a little bit more this year. So we planted about five times as much as we did last year. So we're growing  and hopefully by the end of this week, early next week, we will start having some produce. We have a little standout front too. And  I like to fiddle around with that when I can. And we do lots of different things.
03:46tomatoes, cucumbers, squash, pumpkins, pretty much everything you can think of. We grow here right in our garden. So it's a lot of fun.  Keeps me busy.  Yeah. I call it the usual suspects. When people ask me what we grow in ours, I said the usual suspects, tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuces,  et cetera, et cetera. So all the good things. Yeah, exactly. All the things that people want to eat in June, July, and August. Right. And I don't know.
04:16I don't know how things are going in Michigan, but here in Minnesota, we've had the nicest weather for getting an early start on crops this year.  And we also  built a heated greenhouse two Mays ago. So we had  seedlings ready to go in the ground  first week in  May. We usually don't plant until May 15th because of the danger of frost.
04:45And so we looked at the extended forecast and it looked like it was going to be good. And my husband planted tomatoes like three weeks earlier than we usually do. And I said, if they die,  they're done. There's no coming back from that. He said, they're not going to die. He said, I have faith. was like, okay, I hope your faith works out.  Well, I'm glad it did work out.  I actually got a late start this year.
05:12because of the weather, just because we actually took our first vacation in the last 14 years. So  we were gone for that last week and a half. So it kind of pushed me back a little bit. So we didn't get started until the last week of May, but everything's in the ground now and seems to be doing well. So.
05:32I don't hear farmers say, I took a vacation very often. Where did you have the opportunity to go?  I know, right? It's really crazy. So we actually went to Disney. We took the kids to Disney for the first time  and it was a lot of fun, but my husband and I have never really taken a vacation by ourselves. So it was wonderful to have the opportunity to do that. And we were happy to be back home as well. So we really missed our animals and missed what was happening here.  So.
06:01Good. I'm glad that you did that because your kids are only little once. Trust me. I'm 55. My kids are all grown. They're all adults. And we weren't in a position to do the things that people do with their kids. We never went to Disney. We never went to Florida. We never went to any of the most people go. And the kids would all tell you that they don't have an issue with that. That was fine. We would go see the grandparents and that was really fun.
06:31But  the thing that I would tell people who are looking at getting into homesteading or farming or ranching is that if you can at all do it, take that week or so a year for yourself. Find people who you trust to come in and handle chores and the gardens and animals.  And preferably  do your vacation in like September or October when the gardens are done. And that way the only thing the person coming in has to do
07:01is feed the animals and muck the stalls. Yeah, we were very fortunate, very blessed to be able to take a week away and  kind of chill out and relax for a little bit. Like I said, it was our first time being able to do that and it was very much needed.  And  we're really, really happy that we were able to do that with the kids and they got to experience it. But they also love just being home to their kind of home body. So they'd rather be in their own element here and know exactly what we do every day. They kind of have a rhythm here.  So
07:34Did they get to meet any of their favorite Disney characters? They did. They did. Actually, my daughter is obsessed with Stitch. of course, it was the day that the new Stitch movie came out. So she was super excited to see him. They also got to see Belle and the Beast. And it was a lot of fun.
07:54Yeah, I see videos of little kids meeting their favorite Disney characters at Disneyland and it just makes me smile. I think it's so sweet.  Oh gosh, yes. The way they lit up was, it was  so priceless. Very much worth it, no matter what the cost was.  You know, my husband wasn't too thrilled with the price of everything, but you got to do it once in a while, right?  Absolutely. And that's really my point is if you have the opportunity to do something like that.
08:22and you can find people you trust to handle the things at home,  go do it. You only live once. Right. Yep. Yep. Very much would have actually said YOLO, but the last time I said YOLO, my 23- My 23-year-old son laughed his ass off at me when I said YOLO instead of you only live once.  Nice. You got to get with the lingo, right? You got to stay with it.
08:49He gets so squirrely because my husband and I both are people of the eighties. You know, we grew up in the eighties.  And as you know, we Gen Xers think that we're going to be young forever and  pick up the newest music, the newest slang really easily because things change every day when we were growing up. And so he's 23 and he just thinks that it's ridiculous when  we and our friends talk.
09:18like we're his age. It's funny. I know my son is always saying sigma this, sigma that, and I'm like, what in the world? You're like on a next level. You're totally out of here, dude. I have no idea what you're saying. Uh huh. Yeah. It's crazy all the slang that happens with the next generation of kids.
09:41I mean, my parents were not necessarily up on the latest music or the latest slang when I was a teenager.  And my dad  loved  old country music. He's still around. He's 81 years old. And  I really loved  George Michael and Prince. And I kind of liked Michael Jackson. I really loved Janet Jackson when she brought out music.  And my dad was not really impressed with the music I listened to.
10:10And because he loved music, we had a really nice stereo with a really nice speakers.  So the minute my parents would leave the house, I would be getting the records out, vinyl records,  and putting them on the record player and cranking out music that I grew up with, you know, listen to it constantly. And they would go for a walk around the block every night after dinner. So they left, I had music on and they could hear it halfway around the block. That's how loud I had it turned up.  that's so funny.
10:39Good memories.  You know, my husband and I were just saying how we're huge country fans and we like 80s and  90s country  and there is no good music like it used to be. So we were just talking about that yesterday, how good the music was in the  90s compared to now.
10:57I am so glad you said that because I actually flipped the radio on a week or so ago when I was driving somewhere, I don't where I was going, and put it on a country station, know, like, like top 40 country as it were. I was like, all of this is crap. And I thought, oh my God, am I getting old, old now? And so I'm glad to know that it is crap because you're not as old as I am. If you think it's crap, it's probably crap. No, it is garbage. It's just terrible.
11:26I don't even know how they can call it country music anymore. But  I'm glad we got to listen to the good music and we can still relive that every day.  Well, I'm really grateful for things like Pandora and Spotify because you can listen to anything you want to now and not have to be in a vehicle with a radio.  Right. So.
11:50We're getting a little far afield, but today has been that kind of day with nostalgia. I actually cried on the episode that I did earlier today.  So I'm not going to cry on this one, hopefully. Yeah, And I only do it about once every 50 episodes. So think I'm doing okay.  So tell me again, the animals you have. Well, we have Nigerian dwarfs. We have Stella, Luna,  and...
12:19Vega, which all are our mamas. They actually just had a birthing here a couple months ago. So they all had babies. We got rid of half of them  and then we retained a few. And then we also have their counterparts, Rocky  and  Oreo.  And then we also have Frankie, which is the buck that we have. And then we have a mini Dexter cow named Betty.
12:43And we have chickens. So I like to call them Smokey and the Bandits because Smokey is our rooster and then all of his ladies.  They're a lot of fun. They keep us entertained, pecking around and squawking all day long. So that's pretty much the gist of the animals. And then we also have two golden doodles as well. So you got to include them in the farm animals.  There's always a dog on the farm.
13:10Almost 99.9 % of the time there's always a dog on the farm. Okay, I have questions about all the things you just said. Let me mute my mic real quick. got a cough, hang on.
13:24I try not to cough in my guests' ears.  So you have Nigerian dwarf goats, dwarf goats, Yep. Okay. Do you use them for milk? Yes, actually. So  like I said, we came into this kind of overnight. So it's been almost two years now that we've been at the homesteading chain.  And when we first got Stella, which was one of our first goats that we got  right away,
13:51like four days after we got her, gave birth. So I kind of was around and tried to learn and teach myself on how to milk.  Um, so then this year when it came up, I had three, uh, mamas that delivered and we were able to start milking. So I do different things with that. Um, butter, I try to make my own soft cheese and then, um, also just for drinking as well.  Okay.  And
14:19I'm guessing you don't use the goats for meat.  No, no, we don't do that here. I know a lot of people have asked us and I just cannot bring myself to do it. Nothing against it, just not our thing. So they're more like a poop here. We truly love our animals and we get super close to them.
14:41Yeah, a lot of the people that I've talked to on the podcast who have goats only have them for dairy. And there are a lot of people in the United States who will eat goat meat. I have not tried it because I'm the same as you. Goats are friends and I don't want to eat them.
15:01So, dairy goats are fantastic and I did not, I've said this a few times, I did not like goat milk. The goat milk that I tried in previous years tasted to me like hay and a cow patty in the field. It just didn't taste, it didn't taste good. And then friends of ours who have goats let me try their cream for my coffee from their goats and I love it.
15:29So it just depends on what the goats eat, I guess. It does, yeah. So at first I was really reserved. I was kind of nervous to try it. And then once I did, I was like, oh my gosh, this is actually really good. So it has a lot sweeter taste than like a cow's milk would. And the fat content is actually higher. So there's a lot more cream  to milk than what a cow, like a regular cow's  milk would be. So we quite enjoy it. Yeah, the cream is fabulous.
15:57It is so yummy in coffee.  I need to get hold of my friend and be like, can I give you 10 bucks for like  just a little bit of cream? I will pay whatever you want. I just want some goat milk cream. It's so good.
16:14Yeah, it really is.  And then your cow, do you milk her or not? So we don't currently. She's about two years old. So  obviously in order to get milk from her, she would have to be bred.  So we keep her right now just more as like a pet. I hope to  IA her this fall if everything goes correctly, but we will see how that goes. See how much time we have on our hands.  Yeah.
16:43I wasn't sure how old she was, so I didn't know if she'd had a baby yet.  then the chickens, do you sell the eggs or do you just have them for yourself? We do. We sell eggs.  We get probably  between 20 and 30 eggs every single day.  We have 32 chickens right now, so they're laying quite well.  We have a little stand that we sell eggs and jams and that type of thing out front of our house. And then we also
17:10We like to give them away to our neighbors and that type of thing too. So we usually have an influx of them. So we're trying to get rid of them quickly.
17:23Yeah, we're kind of going through that too. Back when we only had 12 chickens, we couldn't even keep eggs in our house because people wanted to buy them. then we got 14 more chickens. And so now we actually have enough eggs in the house during the week for my husband to have a couple for breakfast before he goes to work.  So doubling up on the chickens was a very good plan this spring. Yes. Yeah, that's exactly what we did. So last year we had 10.
17:50And then we added another 22 to our account this year. So it's been a huge change to go from 10 to 32. Uh huh. So do you guys have jobs outside of the farm? Yeah. So I actually just stepped away. I had a meal prep business and I just stepped away from that to try to be more involved here on the homestead full time. And then my husband is an engineer, so he works for Stellantis.
18:18We actually joke because you were talking about eggs and every week he's toting eggs to work. So we always laugh at him because he's like my little pack mule taking stuff with him when he goes.  Yeah. My husband works for a company that repairs printers and fax machines and things. And he takes eggs to work because people know we have chickens. So they buy eggs from him at work. Yep. And then as soon as one does, they love them so much, they tell their friend and then the next person wants to get them.
18:49Luckily, my husband was smart enough to let everybody know that we only have so many eggs right now. So  you've got to get to him fast if you want the one or two dozen we might have on hand.  I would love to buy a hundred chickens and just  have our place to be a chicken business as it were, an egg business. But the problem is we would have to actually, you know, spend the money to get laying hens.
19:18or spend the money to get an incubator and hatching eggs, or spend the money to get little tiny pullets. And right now, the money just isn't there for any of it. So we're basically doing farmers markets and selling at our farm stand to put money away so that we can expand our business. we wanted to do this last summer, but we lost $5,000 in income because our garden
19:45couldn't get planted the way it should have been because it rained so much here. So we're a little behind the eight ball on the expanding the business plans,  but I still have the podcast. So I'm making that work for now. Oh, that's good. That's good. You got to do what you got to do, right?  Yeah, exactly. And  people think that when you, when you buy land and you start a homestead or a farm, you just do it, you know, you just jump in all the way into the pool.
20:14And that's not usually how it works. you start small and dream big, I think is how people put it. Right. Yep. You have to grow a little bit each day or a little bit each year and keep expanding on that. Yeah, because it's really expensive to outfit a homestead. Oh, You will drop, if you tried to do it all at once, you could easily drop $50,000 in six months.
20:47Like easily $50,000. Oh, if not more. Yeah. Everything is so darn expensive right now too. All the fencing alone and posts and everything are just crazy.  know we had to rebuild our whole chicken coop this year with adding more chickens. Obviously comes a larger coop  and we easily spent,  I don't know,  close to a thousand, if not more just by  buying materials and building it ourselves. So.
21:16It's pricey. It's not an easy feat, that's for sure. No, it's not. it's, I see it as a dream. You know, you start thinking about this when you start thinking about it. And then it usually takes a couple of years for that to really get stuck in your brain that you really want to do it. And then you have to do research and then you have to find a place and you have to be able to afford it. And then you have to actually, you know, buy the place.
21:45and then you have to make it what you want it to be. I don't feel like this is ever an overnight thing. No, and I think you're supposed to evolve with it every year as well. So you learn as you do things, you learn and grow and keep  adapting to what you need. And a lot of things you just make work too. You don't always have to go out and outdo yourself from the year before. Just keep maintaining the same rhythm and routine and ends up being so much greater than what you expect it to be.
22:16Yes,  and it's the only job you will ever have where you see the entire process of the job  from beginning to end. Oh, yes.  That's my favorite part. by doing that though, because you get to see it come to fruition and all the hard work that you put into it along the way. It's truly something to be  admirable.
22:44Yes, I have a question for you.  When you plant your garden, you when you put the seed in the ground and you put the dirt over it and you water it and you say,  please grow, because that's how we do it here.  We say please grow and hopefully it does.  When the plant comes up and it's got the actual leaves it's supposed to have,  not the beginning leaves, but  the real leaves, and it starts to grow,  do you just stand there and look at that thing and go, it's
23:13It's a miracle. Do you have that feeling? Oh yeah, about every single morning and night. That's where I get my zen. So every morning I have my coffee and I take a walk out to the garden and I could sit out there for hours and just sit out there and stare because dad's work is truly, truly amazing. And all the thought that he puts into every single little thing is just, it's miraculous. It truly is.
23:45Yeah, I don't know that I ever understood the word miracle like I do  now. We have sunflower plants growing out,  out sort of beside and behind our greenhouse.  you can see the plants from the window on the landing on the second floor.  And I was coming downstairs this morning from the first interview I did. And I looked outside and I could see one of the sunflower blooms through the window.
24:13and I dead stopped and I just stood there and looked at it for five minutes.  I never did that kind of stuff before I lived here.  Aw, well I'm glad that you get to enjoy it, because if you're not enjoying it, then it's all work for nothing. So it's definitely important to take the second and just kind of take it all in. Yeah, the simple joys of this just blow me away.
24:38I'm so glad that I get to talk to you and the other people I've talked to on the podcast because you guys understand it. When I talk to people who haven't done this or haven't had any interest in it, they're like, it's a plant. And I'm just like, no, you do not understand. And they're like, you're right. I don't understand. And there's no painting. There is no painting a picture for them. If they don't get it, they're not going to get it.
25:06Yeah, and it's sad when they don't get to experience all the joys and stuff too, because you, like I get super excited about everything that we do here. So down to, I mean, just the simple flower growing is so amazing. And so you want to share it with everybody. And when they don't see eye eye with you, it's kind of like,  ah, I just want you to get it. So they never will until they get to experience it themselves.
25:32Yes, the one thing that most people do understand though when they come to visit is the peace here. Yes. we have friends over and they just calm down. We had friends come and visit I think the second spring we were here. No, first spring we were here. And they're not, they don't grow a garden, they don't do any of this, they don't even have a pet. And they came to visit to see where we live.
26:01And I can remember them getting out of the car and looking around, like a good five minutes of just looking around, because it's three acres. And Cal, the guy that's the husband, he looked at me and he said,  you must be  so happy.  And I was like, oh, you have no idea, buddy.
26:29And his wife came over and hugged me. She's like, I am so excited for you. This is beautiful.  And  they got that part. You know, they understood that we had really wanted to get out of town and have some land  and  have a cornfield around us. Cause why not?  And it was so nice to get that reaction from them because I was like, they're going to think we're crazy. And they didn't think that.
26:56Well, that's good. I'm glad they were able to see how peaceful it was too. Yeah. And I mean, there are moments that are not peaceful. Like when the chicken got attacked by a raccoon two weeks ago, that was not fun to... Yeah. We've been lucky enough to not experience any  animal attacks or anything like that, thankfully. So hopefully we don't have that, but I know that it's quite crazy around here. We've lost quite a few sheep and goats just down the road to coyotes lately. So...
27:26I anticipate to have some type of run-in. Oh, you will. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry for what you're going to go through when you do, because it's very sad. And the fact is, I heard this  a year and a half ago, when you have livestock, you will have dead stock.  And  I can tell you right now, you're going to cry, and it's going to be sad,  and you're going to want to throw up. And it doesn't matter whether you see it happen or not.
27:55The next time, you're probably gonna be really mad. You won't be nearly as sad. You'll be just pissed off about it. Well, that's kinda how we felt. We had one of our  baby goats that was born actually on my birthday this year. It was kinda cool.  As soon as we got to a birthday party, I had to turn around and help deliver babies. So that was super fun.  But we poured all of our heart and soul into this little goat and we bottle fed him and he was just the sweetest thing.
28:22My daughter kind of took him on as her own  and at about four weeks he passed away and we think that maybe  he aspirated on one of his bottles while we were gone. So  it was really sad and we had a whole little funeral service for him, of course.  But I don't think it'll get easier as time goes on.  It does not. It does not get easier. You just get used to it.
28:49Right. That sounds terrible, but you do. get used to the fact that you have to enjoy everything you have now because it may not be here tomorrow. Right. And I still tear up. I mean, we had barn kittens that died at three weeks old and I definitely still teared up, but I was just like, okay, I need to shift from destroyed and sad to pissed off because pissed off is easier. I promise you.
29:16Yep, you're able to get up and keep moving and do the next job that you need to do instead of sitting there and just groveling. Yeah, sobbing doesn't change the fact that the thing that died died. If it did, everybody would live forever. Right.
29:35So yeah, there are hard things on the farm too, but the thing I always hang on to is the joy that comes with the good things that happen. Right. There's always joy to be found somewhere. I know my kids were heartbroken and I just tried to explain that's the circle of life. And at least we were able to witness him have a great life, the short time that he did. And we got to enjoy him and he gave us lots of laughs and hugs and love along the way. And we got to do the same for him. So. Yep.
30:04Exactly.  And  the thing that's really great about farm kids is they experience loss early so that when they end up losing a grandparent or a great auntie or uncle, they have already lost something that they have poured their heart and soul into and it is actually easier on them. Well, and I'm glad you mentioned that because that is actually kind of what shifted my whole mindset of a homestead or wanting to do this type of a lifestyle because we actually did go through
30:33quite some significant losses. lost my dad  and then a short few years later we lost my grandfather and then my stepdad as well. And  my kids were extremely close to all three of them.  And to lose so much,  you just really start to think about life and what's important to you. And that's why we decided to move here and see what we could actually put our hands into  and just live.
31:01because we weren't really doing that before. So it makes a huge difference, I think. It does. It really does. And honestly, I have had more conversations in the last six months about the fact that life is supposed to be  lived. It's not supposed to be survived. It's supposed to live, enjoy every freaking moment of it and feel all the feelings because that's why we're here.
31:28Absolutely. All the ups and downs and hard work poured into something and all of the joy that you get from seeing something come full circle is  there's just no words for it other than just it's great. It's phenomenal. Let's use phenomenal. Phenomenal is a great big happy word. Stellar is a good one too. I'm a word freak. I'm a word freak. love words. I have words for everything.
31:54All right, so Amanda, this was lovely. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me. Where can people find you? I'm glad we got to chit chat. So thank you so much for inviting me on here. And I look forward to sharing more  stories  and just enjoying all of the stories that you have along the way with everybody else that you interview. Awesome. I hope you come back and listen. Where can people find you, Amanda?  We are on Facebook under Peaceful Pastures.
32:23And we are also on TikTok, the same name, Peaceful Pastures. So we are located in Davison, Michigan, and we are about an hour north of Detroit.  We do some bookings and some private events here on our farm. And then  you'll find us on Facebook and you can just shoot me a message and I'd love to connect with you. Fantastic. All right. As always, people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com.  Amanda, thank you again for your time. appreciate it. Thank you so much. I had a wonderful time.
32:53All right.
 

Our Little Farm WI

Today I'm talking with Sharon and Ben at Our Little Farm WI.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters, and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis.  A Tiny Homestead podcast is sponsored by Homegrown Collective, a free-to-use farm-to-table platform emphasizing local connections with ability to sell online, buy, sell, trade in local garden groups, and help us grow a new food system.  You can find them at homegrowncollective.org.
00:25Today I'm talking with Sharon and Ben at Our Little Farm, Wisconsin. Good morning, you guys. How are you? Good morning. Good morning. Thank you for having us this morning. Yeah, thanks. Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for being here. I appreciate it.  What's the weather like in Wisconsin this morning?  Sunny and warm. Although it's not too bad. It's only going to be like 82, I think, today. Yesterday was pretty hot and humid and... But great for the crops.  Awesome. Good.
00:54our very handsome weather guy on WCCO here in Minnesota.  His name is Joseph Dames. My son just laughs every time he sees him because he's a very pretty, this guy's a very pretty boy.  Says that it is  a top 10 weather day in Minnesota today.  Wow.  That's something to on the calendar. Let's see if it's actually true though. I think it's going to be okay. 84 degrees, breezy, sunny.  I'm going to this.
01:23Right. Okay. So is your your farm actually little? Is your farm actually little? It is we're at five acres compared to around us. have three large cash croppers and they have, you know, I don't know. 1500 acres to 2000 acres each.
01:44Well, you've got us  by two acres with your five. We only have three acres.  There's a reason  we're called a tiny homestead because we consider ourselves to be minuscule compared to a lot of people. Exactly. That's how we're little just because everybody else is so big in this area.  Okay. And where's the biggest city near you?  We're actually located not just too bad.  Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, and there's Manitowoc.
02:15Oh, Green Bay. Everybody knows where Green Bay, Wisconsin is. Right.  40 minutes  southeast of Green Bay. Okay. So you're closer to,  I'm blanking.  Illinois is below you. What's to your right? lake? Right. So Milwaukee, we're an hour and a half  north of Milwaukee.
02:40Okay.  All right. Cool.  Awesome. So what do you guys do at your farm?  We are we are into a lot of things. We're trying to figure out how to scale down. We like to do everything. So this is always our dilemma of what to do and what not to do. So  yeah, so primarily our crops on on the bulk of our land, we have a little bit of rented land as well. That's  again, small four acres.  And we use that for growing our
03:10Einkorn wheat, which is an ancient wheat,  which was really kind of the start or the spark, you know, for us three years ago to create our little farm and get going with what we wanted to do.
03:25And then we also do fruits and vegetables and then our baked goods is what we  pretty much primarily do at this point. And then we're going to be adding animals to our little farm, hopefully sooner than later. Okay. I want to get back to that, but  do you guys grow the einkorn  wheat for yourselves or do you have a market to sell it at too?  So that's a good question. Yes,  we
03:55We are currently growing it ourselves. This is our third cropping year. had the first year was a failure trial and error year. It turns out that it's not just like growing regular wheat where, uh, I mean, we don't spray, you know, it's all regenerative agriculture. So  that, was a huge learning curve.  Uh, so the second year we did much better and the third year now it's looking really good too. Uh, so yeah, we,
04:23Our goal with the einkorn is to bring it full circle. mean,  Joville was kind of an inspiration for us. when we landed on the einkorn, we just felt there should be a lot more of this available to everybody. So then we do sell the flour to people as well as we run it through our kitchen, through the baked goods.  Yeah. Do you grind it yourself?
04:50We do. So we actually  sprout it first and then I dehydrate it and then we have access to a stone mill. So then we stone mill it fresh about every three weeks is what  is about what we need to do to keep it fresh.  Wow. Okay. Awesome. I love that because  I hear about Einkorn flour a lot. I've never tried it. I probably should, but I haven't.  And does it, does it look the same as the wheat that we grow today when you grow
05:20einkorn wheat does it look the same as  a there's a word for it.  I can't think of it. The wheat that  a farmer would grow, you know, today. it's quite different. I mean,  if you had a handful of each,  it's,  you know, the differences are unmistakable. The einkorn, the berry itself is really tiny, okay. But then when you harvest, it's,  it's a hold.
05:48wheat almost like oats has a hull on it. And then  it also has these little beards that stick off of the hull about half an inch or so.  So yeah, it's  amazingly different than a modern wheat.  You know, your modern wheat comes out of the combine. It's nice and clean. It's  the berries  is what you're harvesting.  So it's pretty much ready to go.
06:18of the machine where einkorn, you know, presents a little bit of a challenge. There's extra cleaning, there's extra hauling.  So yeah, I hope that answers your question. Yes, it does. And the word I was looking for was conventional, conventional farmers.  Oh, yes. There you go. Because conventional is the way we do it  now.  And it gets confused with traditional, which is kind of what you're doing. So
06:46Okay, cool. And then I want to get back to the animals you would like to acquire at some point in the near future. What are you guys thinking of bringing on to the farm? Sure. Well, back in 2010, we had a dairy cow that we milked and we love doing it, but we have another business and we were just too busy with that. So we had to actually sell it after about three years. So we want to start back with the another dairy cow, maybe up to five, and then also chicken eggs, layers.
07:16Not like, yeah, they'd be layers.  We want to get those two. And then Ben does want to do pigs as well, but I'm on the fence on that one. So  right now, chicken layers and  dairy cow is our priorities.  We used to have also  steers too. This was back in 2010.  So we do want to get that footprint back on the ground because it is so much better for the soil to have animals on it then.
07:43You know, we do cash crop or we do  cover crops and  composting on our field, but nothing can replace the animal.
07:53No, you're right. You're absolutely right. Calminor is like the best fertilizer ever.  Right. And chicken, I've heard chicken is phenomenal. hopefully  we can just continue to grow our soil to be so much healthier and better. Yes. And I just misspoke. Actually, chicken manure is the best. Calminor is next best. We had, we did a garden one year and we put,  um,
08:22Cooled down chicken manure because chicken manure is hot. can't use it right away. has to  sit for a good six months or you will burn your crops.  But we used  chicken manure one year for our garden and we had the  best produce that year. So  I lied. Chicken manure is the best that you can get it.  Interesting. Yeah, that's our goal.  Yep. We had like the most wonderful cucumbers and tomatoes that year.
08:49We've had some good ones since, but  those were the best we'd  ever grown.  Do you not have chickens anymore? Oh, we do. We do. We put chicken manure in our garden, but  we also add in  goat manure from friends that have goats and cow manure if we can get it, because we just want to cover all the bases. You  can't just have one kind of poop. We must have multiple sources of poop. Exactly. Much have diversity in poop.
09:18Right. Exactly. Okay, cool. And then the pigs. If you're on the fence about them, Sharon, just start with like two. And then if you don't love it, you can just slaughter them when they're big enough to eat and then you don't have to do it anymore. Oh, there you go. You don't know unless you try, I guess, right? Yep. Uh-huh. Never say never, as my grandma always said. Yeah. And I keep hearing stories from people that they're of one or two mindsets about it.
09:47They either got pigs and they hate it or they got pigs and they love it because they love the pigs personalities. Right. That's what you hear so much that people, they're just fun animals to have around. They're supposed to be very smart. And there is a breed that we came across a few years back. don't remember it. is it? Yeah. So there's a breed out there. The meat and bacon, absolutely phenomenal. It's,
10:15a Mongolista mulefoot hog.  And the interesting thing is they're shaggy. You know, they're very hardy in the winter.  Their hair is like four or five inches long. And so it's quite interesting. Ever since we had that pork from those hogs  that's been on our radar, if we ever do this, that's what we want to try and grow.
10:44Well then you should find someone who has those. Are they common or not? They're not common. At  least not in our area. Not in our area.  I'm sure there's associations out there,  yeah, that'll be a little bit of a hunt, I think. Yeah, one of the worst parts about being involved in the homesteading farming life is that you get introduced to certain breeds  and therefore meet and you try it and you're in love with it.
11:14because we ended up getting a half and it  was a steer and the breed was Flechtia,  F-L-E-C-H-V-I-A, I think was what, how it was spelled. And that beef was so good and nothing has lived up to its sense.  Interesting. What makes them so much different? they smaller, larger? I have  no idea.  It was just, it was the most tender meat.
11:44I know how to cook beef so it's not really, you know,  um,  again, cannot think of words this morning. I'm sorry.  It was really, really tender. And I know how to make beef tender when I cook it, because there are ways to do that even with a terrible cut. And I didn't have to do anything to this beef. Every time  I pulled any cut of meat from this beef that we bought, it was just amazing. Wow. We're going to have to look that up and research.
12:14Yes. And I mean, maybe the farmer worked some magic and was like, your meat will be tender. And it was.  I don't know, but it was great. We had bought a quarter of a steer from a local organic farm  and they have their  meat hung for three weeks.  Yeah. And not a lot of butchers do that in this area. And that was the best. That was where you could, I did a  roast just in the slow cooker. Didn't add anything.
12:40to it and didn't need anything, didn't need salt and pepper, any seasoning. It was just so phenomenal, that flavor. So don't know if it was the hanging of it that made it extra delicious or what, but.  Yeah, I don't know enough about it to even offer up an opinion here. I just know that  I would give anything to get another half from that same variety and I haven't been able to find anyone who raises them.
13:08engine. I'll keep in touch in case we decide to try it.  Okay, awesome. Thank you.  Okay, so did you guys have like farming background  before you got into this or not? Yes, so I, I grew up on a very small, like a 25 cow dairy, conventional small dairy farm.  So that was, that was all I really knew as a kid. And
13:35left home, you know, out of high school and, you know, so here we are and all these years later and that's, you always think about going back to that and I guess this is our opportunity to try and do that.
13:53Fantastic.  It's so funny when I ask that question of the people that I talk to on the podcast, I get either your kind of answer  or I get, nah, we were city people and we're just like, we're going to make the jump. We're going to go  buy land and raise some chickens. And there's no real in-between on it. It's very interesting to me.  And  I'm going to tell you guys a secret. And I haven't really said this this way on the podcast. I've alluded to it, but I haven't said it.
14:23I don't ever want to live with people even 30 feet from me again. We have a quarter acre between us and our neighbors now.  And  I  love it. When we go back to the town that we lived in five years ago, all the houses are so close together. It  literally gives me anxiety when we drive into town.  I agree. I feel the same way, you know? Yeah. Once you're out in the country,
14:51You just get those close confines and it's like, nah, that's not me anymore.
14:57Uh-huh. can't. I mean, I'm sure I'm 55. I'm sure at some point I'm going to have to probably move closer to people because I will probably need help in my older years. But right now, I love it when our friends come to visit us here because there's space and they get to breathe in fresh air and they're like, this is so lovely. Thank you for having me. And I just, I love it. It's great. I agree. We have, I've got two sisters that are coming in August and
15:27One lives in California, close neighbors, and the other one lives in Washington state, but she's got a little bit, not so tight neighbors, but  they just love coming out here. We live on a dead end road. It's quiet. It's peaceful, great scenery all around. You know, it's just,  you can tell it, they just come in here and they just breathe, you know, they just  sigh, just like,  so peaceful.
15:50you watch their shoulders come down. exactly. You can almost see their stress just melt away. Yeah, after a few days, you know, working in the garden or going with us to markets,  they just, you know,  you can just see it melt away.
16:08Yes, I got up at four o'clock this morning as I always do, because I can't sleep past four  a.m.  The Lord has made me an early riser for some unknown reason.  And I went downstairs to grab my coffee and we have this little porch that's off the kitchen. And I went out on the porch and the window was open and it was like 68 degrees,  no breeze. And it was silent except for the crickets and the bullfrog that was making noise this morning. That is awesome.
16:37That doesn't happen often here. Usually there's a breeze. And I was just sitting there sipping my coffee. My son and my husband were still asleep. It was quiet. The dog was upstairs with my husband. And I was just like, I love 4.15 a.m. because it's quiet. It is seriously dead silent. Right. And it's still dark outside at four, so. Yeah.
17:02It's just a lovely way to wake up. You know, when you first get up, you're not quite with it yet. That's great. I don't know about you, but I need to get that first sip of coffee in me before my brain really starts. Oh, right. I up at five and that's usually just to turn the coffee maker on. a better way.  Right. That's the best way to start the day.  Yeah. can't think of a better way to wake up fully than sitting on that cute little porch with my hot coffee and listening to the bullfrog sing.
17:32Right, your own little concert. Yeah, absolutely.  And  the Fireflies are back. They just showed up about a week ago.  Oh. So we get a little show about 9, 30, 10 o'clock at night. If I'm still awake,  I'm not usually, but I try this time of year to stay up a little bit later so I can see the  Fireflies slash Lightning Bugs doing their dance. Yeah, that's, yeah. Ours come out a little bit earlier, I think, than that.
18:00Yep, and I'm not saying this is for everybody. It is not. There are people who really love the hustle and bustle of  in town  or big cities.  And I am all for diversity, know.  Differences are what make the world an interesting place, but it's just not me. I can't imagine living in a city again. No, anywhere else.  Now, we, last fall we went to, was about Thanksgiving time or so.
18:28We stayed in Milwaukee for what, three days? We to Acres conference. And yeah, I couldn't wait to get home. The conference was very good, very informational, lots of like-minded people, but yeah, I had had enough of the city. Yep. It's really hard to go back. Once you find what your soul wants and you
18:58get it, it's really hard to go back to the thing that you didn't really want. Right. We were just talking this morning that when we're ready to retire, we want to just get a little tiny house, you know, on a couple of acres, just have our garden, our milk cow and our chickens. And Ben, of course, would have his little repair shop or a little shop there, but just simplify, but quiet. Yeah, there's a lot of peace in quiet.
19:27I grew up in the woods of Maine, okay? Maine, the state of Maine. Right. And my favorite memory  was going to bed at night and we had the window open and we could hear the wind blowing through the pine trees, which is a whole different sound than the wind blowing through leaves. And it's kind of like a whistle and a hum. And  I miss that noise so much because we don't really have pine trees here where we live.
19:55And I just remember curling up and listening to that sound and just falling asleep and knowing that everything was good. Right. You can't get that back.  Nope. Exactly.  So I feel like I'm just waxing nostalgic this morning and I probably am. I don't know. It's been one of those days where you're like, huh,  I remember when I was eight.  The long memory starts to kick in. short memory starts to leave.
20:24Well, I hope that doesn't happen anytime soon, but I don't know. This is the time here we would usually travel and we're not.  More time for reflection then?  Didn't know I was going to do this. Sorry.  A little bit. Yeah. Yup. Nice. Give  me a second.  Wow. Definitely nostalgic this morning.  Okay. So.
20:53What are the plans for the farm?  Are there bigger plans? Yeah, so right now we're  building a certified kitchen and a farm store. I spent all last week digging in the ground looking for a water line that I knew was there and found it.  Nice. I would literally wake up every morning and  drag myself out there and think, well, today's the day and
21:22Did that for four days in a row  before we found it.  But  interesting part of our farm store is, so we decided to do this and we do farmers markets and the word kind of goes around and we have these other farmers that just kind of naturally started approaching us about having products that we don't have to fill in the blanks in our farm store.
21:49We were just kind of surprised by that. We were like, wow, you know, this is something people are looking for, you know?
22:01That's fantastic. So like a farm stand, farm store, or like a bigger building? Like a farm store, you know, retail space.  And it's not  big. Our retail space is going to be 20  plus feet long by 15 feet wide.  So we'll have a lot going on in a small area in there.
22:32Yes.  I don't want to discourage you, but I will tell you what Minnesota is like with that kind of situation with people wanting to sell stuff on your property from their production.  My friend has ducks and she asked if she could sell duck eggs in our farm stand. And I said, of course you can. And as far as I know, that is totally fine with the state of Minnesota. If she asked if she could sell her baked goods as a cottage food producer in our farm stand,  we're not allowed to do that because the person
23:01must be on property  who cooked the food. That's how our cottage law is too. But that'll be us. So I'll be selling my own baked goods  there. I won't have any competition.  So it'll just be me working through our certified kitchen. yeah, we're hoping like meat. We have the one farm that is  already checked into like wholesale licensing, all that.  we'll do that. And honey,  you know, stuff like that that you can
23:30typically get in vegetables where we don't  grow. I'm hoping that... We might have a couple of very talented vegetable suppliers too to fill in.  You know, it's only the two of us.  It'd be nice to raise a few more acres of vegetables, but  there's a lot of activities already.  Yep. When there's only two of you, you only have so much energy and so many hours in the day. Right.
23:58The only reason I brought all that up about the rules here in Minnesota is that every state has different rules about food production and selling whatever you grow or raise.  And  I want people to know that because it's not as easy as throwing up a building and being like, I'm going to sell everything I can get my hands on.  right. And the laws changed because we  purchased a freeze dryer. This was three and a half years ago, maybe four, just for our own garden, because, you know,
24:28It's just a great way to preserve your food.  And it became legal in Wisconsin for five years or five months to sell it. And just like that, that cap made it illegal. You know, so you really have to be aware of your state laws and rules and regulations.  Yeah, because they change. Sometimes they change for a second.  Minnesota does not allow us to ship big goods anywhere. No.
24:58They changed the law a couple months ago that in 2027, cottage food producers will be allowed to  baked goods.  I'm like, why 2027? Why not now?  Right. What's the two years? What's going to happen in two years?  Yeah. And I read it and I was like, I'm going to swear a blue streak, not on my podcast, but I did. I used every swear word I could find when I read it.
25:25And it all came out of my face, so I never utter it on the podcast.  But I was just like, I do not understand what the hangup  is. And I never will understand it because I can't get anybody in our government to have a conversation with me about it, because that would be very awkward.  But  yeah, the laws change, things happen, and  it only takes  one really dangerous experience and the laws will change immediately.
25:55Right.  So you got to work with your government and  I'm very excited that we're allowed to sell my friends duck eggs at our farm stand because somebody stopped in the other day,  bought duck eggs and talked to my husband and was like,  um, do they have  ducks or duck meat? Do they sell duck meat? And my husband was like, I don't  know. And then he said, do they have goats? And they do.  And he said,
26:23Do they sell goat meat? And my husband was like, I don't know, but here's everything's on the little label on the carton of duck eggs. So feel free to email them or  call them because they'll be happy to answer your questions. So hopefully our friends will get some more business out of the back. They're selling duck eggs. Right. It's all about supporting one another. It's a tough gig to do farmers markets and trying to sell your own produce or products. But you know, if you have the other farmers with you, it sure makes the journey a lot.
26:52easier and lot more friendly. Yes. And do you guys end up bartering with the other vendors? Absolutely. We do. And when we first started doing farmers markets, I mean, it was a big awakening for me. know, a couple of things I learned was, um, it's when you go to a market and set up a stand, it's not a competition, it's a community. And the other thing I learned is,
27:20We're packing the car and I'm going there to shop.  Right.  It's like you come back and say, okay, I don't have a lot of cash left, but I got all this cool product or this stuff that's good for you. I'm going to try something new.
27:37Yeah, my husband is the one that goes to the farmers market. I have anxiety. have social anxiety  and I don't want to go hang with a bunch of people that are strangers. It freaks me out.  So he will text me halfway through and say,  can I trade some of our lettuce for bagels or sourdough bread or cookies or whatever?  And I'm like, yes,  because then you're not spending the money that you made selling things. Yes, that would be great.
28:05Right. I had like a vegetable producer that because they're always early on there, know, lettuce and everything. So cookies and  we'd do a vegetable swap for cookies. So that worked out great for me and for them. Yeah. And I don't bake a lot because it would just be gone in a day here. So  my husband will bring home like six molasses cookies from Elaine who makes them  amazing cookies.  And we each,  my son still lives here too. So we, all three of us, we each get
28:34two cookies and that's it and they're gone. I don't have to worry about  my husband eating an entire pan of cookies, you know?  Right.  That's me. Uh huh.  Yeah.  Yeah. And  we all know that sweet treats are probably not great to eat an entire pan of in one day. So  I would much rather he barter for cookies. Right. Yeah. I do like that bartering system though, or even
29:03Yeah, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, you have something that might not be good the next day, you know, just that it's not looking as nice or their packaging isn't great. You go around to the other vendors and you just give them out to them. Uh huh. Everybody appreciates freebies. Oh, absolutely. When we were rolling in tomatoes two summers ago, well, three now.
29:28Not counting this year, last year  we were not rolling in tomatoes. Tomato season was terrible here. So the one before that,  we had tons of tomatoes and we were just giving tomatoes away because we just didn't have any way to use them all up. So yeah, I get it. You share the wealth when you have it. Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. How was your growing season in Wisconsin last year? It  was good. We did really well with everything.
29:58think everything we had. Yeah, last year was phenomenal. This year we're looking good as well. We've had quite a bit of rain every few days. We get a good shower of rain so we didn't have to water much. Last year I think we ended up watering quite a bit but...  we watered a lot last year in July and August. But this year, boy, we're right on track. I feel bad for some of the farmers that have to make hay this year because every three days it's raining which...
30:27I'm not complaining, I don't have to set up sprinklers, I'm okay with that.
30:34Yeah, but it's bad for hay. How's your season so far then? This year has been fabulous. Last year, soft lemons.
30:50Hmm. This year we had, we've, we've been picking peas for a week now.  The peas are huge. Wow. And, we have zucchini coming in. We have had lettuces coming in for a month. So it's been wonderful. And we're surrounded by a cornfield.  The corn is almost as tall as I am and I'm five foot nine.  Oh my gosh. Wow.  Yeah.
31:18Then high by the 4th of July has been met.  Have you had quite a bit of consistent rain as well then?  Yeah, it's been really weird. Like we'll get a week where we get a little bit of rain every day, but the sun will also come out for a couple of hours. And then we'll get like four or five days where it's just sunny and reasonable. And then we'll get a couple of days where it's super freaking hot and then it'll rain again.
31:45So it's been very up and down instead of either no rain or too much rain. Last summer we had so much rain. We lost like at least $5,000 last year because we just couldn't get anything to grow. That's heart, that's disheartening. It was terrible. I have bitched a lot on the podcast about it, so I'm not going to do that today. Let's just say I am so thankful.
32:15for this year because my husband kept saying,  I'm not gonna be mad about it. I'm just gonna wait until next year, next year will be better. And it hasn't. Wow.  And that's farming really. Every farmer ever, you'll hear him say that. Yeah, thank God he has a jobby job or we would have starved to death this winter.  I hear ya.
32:40All right, guys. Well, I try to keep this to half an hour. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. And it was really fun.  you very much. We appreciate this. Same here. Thank you. And where can people find you? Follow us on Facebook. It's our little FarmWI. OK, are you on Instagram at all?  No, we are not that tech savvy yet. So we're still trying to figure out  YouTube. We would like to do a YouTube channel.
33:08And eventually I'll get a website out there for it as well. But right now we're just  Facebook.  All right. Well, you guys heard it here first. You will find Sharon and Ben at Our Little Farm in Wisconsin. They're on Facebook. As always, people can find me at AtinyHolmsteadPodcast.com.  And Sharon and Ben, I hope you have a wonderful day. We wish you the same. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you again. Bye. Bye.
 

Alpine View Farm

Today I'm talking with Kim at Alpine View Farm.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters, and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis.  A Tiny Homestead podcast is sponsored by Homegrown Collective, a free-to-use farm-to-table platform emphasizing local connections with ability to sell online, buy, sell, trade in local garden groups, and help us grow a new food system.  You can find them at homegrowncollective.org.
00:28Today I'm talking with Kim at Alpine View Farm in California. Good morning, Kim. How are you? Good morning, Mary. I'm fine. How are you?  I'm good. How's California this morning? How's the weather?  Pretty good. Can't complain. It's a little warm, but it could be a lot worse.  Yeah, the weather this year has been much better than  last spring and summer, but it's still been kind of weird. I'm in Minnesota. It's a beautiful, sunny,  relatively cool day.
00:57I'm kind of tickled with that. Yeah,  for sure. All right. So tell me about yourself and what you do at Alpine View Farm. Well,  we moved to the country  about eight years ago  and I quickly fell in love with the homesteading lifestyle. I've always called myself a country girl at heart, but this is the first time I've ever lived in a country. So  I, uh,
01:26I guess I was foreshadowing my future without even realizing it. But we just love it here and we, you know, started a garden and then we started with five chickens and now we're up to 36. So, you know, that chicken math kicked in pretty fast. And then I learned how to can and I learned how to make sourdough bread. And so that
01:55has evolved into a little business where I have a micro bakery. And so I'm just really enjoying this  new part of my life.  Nice. What else do you make for your micro bakery?  I focus mainly  on sourdough sandwich bread,  and I also make these really fun pull apart wreaths. And that's our focus in terms of the bakery at this time.
02:24Awesome. So where do you sell your baked goods? Well, we started off just selling from the farm and then this year we've expanded.  We sell at this really cute  general store in a little town near us.  And then  last month we just started selling at a local farmers market.  Nice.  Awesome.
02:51So I don't want to be nosy, but I'm going to ask the question, how much do you sell your sourdough loaves Oh, for the bread. So we sell our loaves for $7 and we sell the pull apart rolls for $10. And I've been told by customers, it's too cheap. But we wanted to try to keep things, you know, manageable for people.
03:21You know, times have been really tight for so many people and,  um, you know, we just want to make  a little bit of money for ourselves, but also make  our products really sellable to everybody.  Awesome. The reason that I asked so pointedly, sorry,  is that  a loaf of name brand bread at the store, like Pepperidge farm or whatever.
03:49is going for seven to eight dollars a loaf right now. So you are absolutely reasonable and your product is better. So I think you're doing a good thing. I know we have our bread contain six ingredients and we use all organic ingredients. And you know, a lot of people don't realize this, but a lot of the bread that's sold in the store that's labeled as sourdough
04:17not actually sourdough.  They're using yeast and something to make it flavored like sourdough,  but they're not even using a sourdough starter. So it's not the fermented food that's such a health benefit for us. Isn't it amazing what  major companies get away with but we small home bakers have to label everything specifically?  Oh, I know it's so
04:47difficult to get everything on a cottage food label.  And not to mention  the  fees involved to be able to sell the products and even  we have to get in California,  an egg license to sell our  eggs.  You know, I just kind of  laugh and shake my head because  I'm thinking, do you know how many eggs I need to sell to cover this or?
05:13Do you know how many loaves of bread I need to sell to cover this cost?  Yeah, it just, doesn't seem fair. And I'm not implying that life is fair, but it just doesn't seem right, you know? Yeah, it actually feels like  they're trying to push out  the small farmer or the small producer.
05:37um, not help them succeed. But I'm hopeful that there's going to be some positive changes in the future along those lines. Yes. And as long as we small producers continue to fight and to work and to  produce good things,  we'll probably win the battle at some point. Yes.  I hope. In fact, a funny story, I have some tomatoes coming in, so I was going to add
06:04those last weekend to our  things that we're selling at the farmers market.  And you know, this is  new to me, the market. And so somebody who helps organize  asked me, well, do you have a permit?  And I said, no.  So I need to  this week, contact our agricultural department and  get a permit to be able to sell tomatoes and other fruits and veggies.
06:33But the good news is, is this one is not supposed to have a feet.  Good. Good.  Do you have a farm stand at your farm? You know, I don't. And that's kind of been a dream of mine.  But I shifted that dream because our road is a dead end road. And so we're not going to be getting the traffic I think that is needed to make a farm stand succeed.  So when the farmers market
07:02came up, an opportunity came up to sell at the farmers market.  At first I was really resistant because  my husband and I, we both work full time,  we're high school teachers in the county.  And so, you know, that's kind of a lot to take that  weekly commitment on.  But I came around to it and just, like I said, shifted that goal from the farm stand
07:31to the farmers market. And I think that was a really good move.
07:37For sure.  How big is your garden, Kim? Well,  we do raised beds because we have a really big gopher and mole problem in the area.  so  we started off with a pretty large  horseshoe shaped bed. And then we have since added  water troughs to  expand the garden.
08:05Last year we started from chicks for the first time  when we expanded our chicken operation.  And so we used the water troughs  as brooders  and then we  poked holes in them and, you know,  leveled them out and put them in the garden to expand the garden.  we have a pretty, pretty good  area for gardening. I'd say we have about
08:35ten raised beds  of varying sizes, but  it's really beautiful and in the future we're going to expand as well.  Awesome. And you're in California so you can grow year-round, yes?  Pretty much. We have a really long  growing season for spring and  summer.  And what's really neat is we live on a hill.
09:02And it's almost like we have our own microclimate, I've noticed.  And so even through the winter, we have a lot of things that still flower and we hardly ever get  any fog or frost. So I can pretty much  put my spring and summer veggies  in  the raised beds  about April 1st. know, obviously I track the weather and then we're
09:29still hauling in tomatoes the end of October.  Okay, so I have a very specific question about tomatoes. There are two different kinds of tomato plants. are determinate and there are indeterminate.  Determinate means that the plant has a limited life cycle and it will die when it's done producing. Indeterminate will keep producing until it gets frosted or gets dug out.  So
09:57In California, if you plant an indeterminate tomato, it will just continue to grow until it's too cold for it to grow? Yes.  In fact, last year we had fresh tomatoes for Christmas dinner. I am so jealous.  I know.  Now, they weren't still on the vine in December, but I had  picked them  green.  I transferred everything out of the
10:26summer garden and wanted to start the fall garden. So  I picked them, I think early November when they were green  and then just let them ripen on a counter.  And yeah, that was really special. Yeah. A fresh tomato from your garden for Christmas dinner is fabulous.  That doesn't happen here. It's too cold.  Although, although I think my husband still has tomato plants in the greenhouse and hope
10:56Hopefully the greenhouse will stay warm enough so that we can have fresh tomatoes through November and maybe  we might eat out a good one for December, but I doubt it.  Well, I hope you get the best outcome on that. Yeah, me too.  I just,  I love bruschetta. I don't know if you know what that is. It's a,  it's an appetizer at restaurants basically.  And about January.
11:26We buy  tomatoes from the store from a company that is in Minnesota that does greenhouse tomatoes and they do a really good job. They taste like a tomato. It's really  lovely, but it's never gonna taste like tomatoes that we get in July and August from our garden.
11:45So that's nice. Yeah, that's one of the things that we sell and can can and sell the brachetta You have do you still have your dog Claire?  Still have what i'm sorry your dog claire.  Oh, yes, we have our dogs. We have two cattle dogs Okay,  I was gonna ask you what kind of dog claire is because I was looking at your instagram page and she's beautiful Thank you. Yeah, she is
12:15So special.
12:18Yes, she got bit by a rattlesnake. that correct? Yes, she did. A few weeks ago,  she cornered a rattlesnake  and got bit, I think, twice.  But fortunately, she  was fine. I took her to the emergency vet and they checked all of her vitals and they looked good. And then,  you know, I thought we were going to have to get the anti-venom.
12:47Um, and the vet said  she could probably just do fine with Benadryl. And so he gave her a shot of Benadryl and then I,  um,  excuse me, for a few days followed up with, um, giving her Benadryl in a pill form and she healed really well. Um, the antivenom, I didn't know this  is $1,500.
13:16Oh, Ben had drove a lot less. Yeah, I definitely would have paid that. She's worth it. You know, I would have worked another year to keep this dog alive, but I'm glad we didn't have to do that. And I really appreciated our vet explaining things and going the more reasonable route because it was absolutely fine for her. Is she a small dog?
13:45She's kind of medium. She's about 40 to 45 pounds.  Okay.  The reason I ask is we have a mini Australian Shepherd or  an Australian Shepherd who is a small dog. She's like 35 pounds.  And I would have thought that it would have been the opposite, that the Benadryl wouldn't have worked because on a smaller body the venom would take them down. But I guess that's not how that works.
14:15Well, you know, this vet, he's been in the business for decades,  definitely in his retirement years, but still working.  And he said that,  you know, he really doesn't see dogs die  of rattlesnake bites unless they're really small or unless the snake  hits  on  a  major vein. Yeah.
14:45So that was reassuring.  Yeah, I'm really glad that she's okay because  I wanted to ask about her because she's so gorgeous. And I was like, please let her still be alive because I don't want us to cry on the podcast again.  Right.  Well,  and then last night she  cornered another snake. Oh,  and  you know, when I first saw her and the snake,  I thought it was a rattler.
15:15and I ran to get my husband to  help. then by the time  we found the snake, had crawled under one of the garden beds.  It didn't look like a rattlesnake  upon closer inspection.  But regardless,  Bella did not learn her lesson.  And she's just,  she's all cattle dog. So I kind of figured that's the way she would be.
15:43because she's just going to protect  even if it  is going to cost her. So it's one of the  more difficult parts of  living here, the rattlesnakes.
16:00Yes, we don't have any poisonous. Well, we do. have timber rattlers in Minnesota, but they're not anywhere near where we live. And I am so thankful, Kim, because if a snake bit my dog, I would be, and if she died, I would be a disaster. Like the podcast would be on hold for a month because I would not be able to do it. Just, all I would do is cry. I know. I just, when she first got bit that first time, I just,
16:29thought I was going to lose her at first because she  was showing signs of distress.  And I didn't realize  that rattlesnake bites were so survivable for  most dogs.  So I was just really  terrified.  But yeah, I feel the same way.
16:55has my whole heart this dog. She's a rescue.  She's just the best dog we've ever owned in our entire lives. So she's just  really special. huh. Our dog is not a rescue, but we got her when she was a day shy of eight weeks old and she's the first puppy we've ever gotten and raised like in the whole adult lives that my husband and I have shared together.  And so there's this real, I don't know,
17:24pride and satisfaction and the fact that we didn't ruin this dog. We've actually made her a really good dog.  So  I love her with my whole heart too. And  I talk about her so much on the podcast and I'm sure that people are tired of it, but  it's just such a huge piece of my life. Like  I didn't have a puppy that was mine when I was a kid or a teenager. So I've gotten to experience this as a fully fledged adult.
17:53It's very much like having a kid.  Yeah, our other cattle dog,  we got him as a puppy.  We had tried to get Bella a friend  through the shelter  and we visited a couple of dogs with her and  she did not want anything to do with them. It was so funny.  And so we figured, okay, we need to get a male and we need to get a puppy.  And there is something really special about raising a dog from a puppy like Bosco.
18:23He,  have you ever heard that expression,  someday you're going to have somebody in your life  who  looks at you like you're the world and it's probably going to be a dog. Yes.  That's Bosco. He adores me. It's the cutest thing. So they've become good friends and that's worked out really well for our family. Yes. And every farm needs a dog.
18:51I swear to God it's true. Oh yeah. Almost every single place I've, every single person I've talked to on the podcast in over 18 months that has a ranch, a farm or a homestead has at least one dog, if not six. Oh yeah. They are loyal companions and our dogs take guarding the homestead very seriously from whether that be people or a predator.
19:19They are definitely working dogs and take that  to heart. Another animal I think every homestead needs is a barn cat.  We've tried a couple of times to get barn cats and  it just hasn't worked out.  But recently,  a couple months ago, we adopted a barn cat from a lady who was moving across country.
19:47little guy is a stone cold killer, I tell you.  He  is bringing us home  his prizes  almost on a nightly basis.  And you know, if you live in the country, and especially if you have chickens,  you're going to get rodents. There's just no way around it. And so he has just been worth his weight in gold. Yes, we have two male barn cats and they earn their keep every single day in exactly the same way you're talking about.
20:16I do want to go back to Maggie, my dog, for a second.  The one predator that Maggie does not understand as a predator is a possum. look so much like cats that she thinks is a cat and she loves cats. Oh, how funny.  We had a possum in our yard and she literally did  the pose where they put their head down and wag their back and like, you want to play with me?  To the possum. I was like, oh no, no, we don't play with possums. That's not a good idea.
20:46No, that is cute. She doesn't understand that a possum is not a cat, but she does understand that a raccoon is not a cat. Oh good, because they're not as nice as possums. No, no, no, you don't want a dog tangling with a raccoon. Even if your dog has had its rabies shot, raccoons will rip up a dog. Oh boy, yeah. We try really hard to not have raccoons on the property.
21:15Well, you know, what's funny is we  did not see a raccoon until just this last year.  And we thought that was so  curious because  we had seen all kinds of other predators and signs of other predators and we have game cams and  we had never picked up a raccoon in seven years. And then just recently we've spotted a couple.  So, yeah.
21:43They look cute, but  they're not cute.  I was going to say I have a love-hate relationship with raccoons. They're so  beautiful,  but they will tear up your shit. They will injure your animals. They do carry rabies. mean, not every single raccoon has rabies, but they are known carriers. And the last thing you want to do is mess with a raccoon and end up with rabies.  Yeah, definitely.
22:11So what's your plan for your farm? Is it where you want it? Do you have  plans to expand it?  What's the story on that? Well,  at this point, think  I'm really content with the growth that we've had this year.  It is definitely keeping me a little too busy, which is a good thing. I'm definitely not complaining.  We're selling at the farmers markets, like I said, and then the general store.
22:40We also make wine jelly for a local winery.  And then we are going to be selling some of our jams, jellies,  and apple butters  at a farm stand  near us.  That's a really, really loved and popular organic farm stand. So that's exciting.  But  for future,  we do have a couple of areas of growth that we would like to do.
23:10Of course, always expanding the gardens.  We'd like to expand our flowers  and start selling those on a little bit larger scale. We've connected with a local nursery,  or I'm sorry, not nursery, a flower shop  that's interested in purchasing from  local producers.  And then  probably in a couple of years, we want to start dairy goats.
23:39Yeah, I'm excited about that.  Cool. You're going to have to come back and tell me about that six months after you get Dairy Goats because that's an adventure and a half and I can't wait to hear all about it.  So what do you grow for flowers or what are you planning on growing for flowers?  This year I'm growing a lot of zinnias and cosmos. Those are a couple of my favorites. I love them because  not only are they beautiful and good for pollinators,
24:08but they have a longer base life than a lot of flowers I found.  And some new ones I'm loving this year are asters. Those are doing really well and we have a few different varieties  and colors.  And then for a filler, I also am growing flocks this year and that has been a really nice one too, long base life and just really beautiful. In fact, when we...
24:36have bouquets at the farmer's market, people really  look at that fox and  ask about it. They're not used to seeing that, I guess. So  those are some of the newer ones we've been doing and really happy with.  Nice. And then the obvious question that I didn't ask 25 minutes ago  is, you have any citrus trees growing on your property?
25:02Yeah, we do  some dwarf citrus in half-boiled murals and those have been  doing really well. We've been focusing on lemons and limes and  they've just produced really well for us.  they get big? The actual fruits, do they get big?
25:24Yeah, they don't. They stay short and they're not too wide either. But this little tree that I would say is only as big as maybe a really good sized shrub produces a lot of fruit. Nice. And the other question I have is do you guys grow avocados? Because I freaking love avocados, but I
25:53I don't eat them often enough because they're kind of expensive. All right. I know.  I love them too. And they're so good for you.  We don't grow avocados.
26:06I looked into that and I don't think the climate or the zone was quite right up here. that would be  a real winner if you could grow avocados.
26:21Yes, my daughter lives in Florida and she's basically house sitting on a semi-permanent basis for her mother-in-law.  And her mother-in-law has avocado trees, bushes, whatever they're called.  And she was telling me that she was able to go out and just pick avocados whenever she wanted them. And I was like, I am so jealous.
26:43That is nice form of payment right there. Yeah, I wish we could grow avocados in Minnesota in my yard because I would be doing it  every year. You know, one of the things that I recently discovered as a nice  alternative to buying fresh avocados, especially when they're really pricey in the grocery stores,  is Costco has this organic  avocado mash  or
27:11Also, they have a guacamole that they sell. And so it's a really great price because it's Costco and it lasts a long time. It comes in three different containers, the package. So it's a good way to get that avocado fix and the nutrition when it's a little harder to find avocados at a good price. wonder if Sam's Club has the same thing. will have to look. Maybe. Maybe.
27:42All right, so Kim, thank you so much for your time today. try to keep these to half an hour.  Where can people find you online? We are on Facebook, Alpine View Farm, and also on Instagram at Alpine View Farm.  Awesome.  I hope that you get to have your dream come true about the Dairy Goats, because I think you'll really enjoy it. Thank you. As always, people can find me at AtinyHomesteadPodcast.com.
28:10Thanks for coming.
28:14Have a great day. Thank you so much.
 

Sourdough for Beginners

Today I'm talking with Sarah at Sourdough for Beginners.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters, and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis.  A Tiny Homestead podcast is sponsored by Homegrown Collective, a free-to-use farm-to-table platform emphasizing local connections with ability to sell online, buy, sell, trade in local garden groups, and help us grow a new food system.  You can find them at homegrowncollective.org.
00:25Today I'm talking with Sarah Frank at Sourdough for Beginners. Good morning, Sarah. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. Are you in Canada? I am. I'm just north of Toronto in what we call cottage country. Okay. What's the weather like in Canada this morning?  It's a beautiful day. A little bit overcast. We live right next to the lake. You know, it's nice and warm. It should be warm enough for the kids to go swimming later.
00:53Nice. It is overcast and not raining. It rained really hard here yesterday. Like we had inches  of water in front of our garage yesterday. It's been crazy weather this year for sure. So  every time we get a decent day, we're pretty excited about it. Yeah, us too. It's, it's been, uh, it's been a much better spring than last year. And that's all I'll say. Cause I've already talked about how terrible last year was.  Where are you located? I'm in Minnesota. All right. So,  um,
01:23I'm going to do a little bit of an intro here because I actually have info to share.  You are an administrator for the Sourdough for Beginners Facebook group, which is really a great group. I have been stalking it because I've been learning about sourdough.  And you are also an author of a book called Sourdough for Beginners, the ultimate companion for sourdough bakers.  And so I really wanted to have you come chat with me because
01:52As we were saying when we talked before,  I have been avoiding sourdough like the plague because I thought it was intimidating.  I thought that I would kill it.  and sourdough became such a trend during COVID that I was like,  eh, I don't know if I really want to do an episode about sourdough because it's very, very, very talked about online.  And then a friend gave me some sourdough starter.
02:20And now I'm learning and I made my first loaf a couple of weekends ago and it was, it was good. It turned out like a bagel texture. So it was under proofed, I've been told, but it was a loaf of bread and it was yummy with cream cheese. So I feel like I had a success. So tell me about yourself and what you do. So, um, I have a lot of kids. I'm a mom of five, two, three of my own and two stepdaughters.
02:50We're very busy. Our kids range in age from seven to 18. We were actually just at our oldest daughter's high school graduation last night. And grads? And we've always been pretty health focused. So we always are like learning about the food science that's out there and then it's sort of across our whole family. So we are always trying to eat well and you know, we go to the gym, our kids are all athletes.
03:17daughter's going to be playing varsity sports in university.  we, about a year and a half ago, started looking at the food that we were getting from the grocery store and learned  that one of the most,  you know, one of the biggest culprits to poor health related to food is the bread that you buy in the grocery store.
03:43So just like everybody else, we set out on the journey to learn about sourdough.  And  my sourdough starter, you know, took a really long time to get started. And I was in  the big sourdough groups on Facebook. And sometimes it's hard to get an answer when those groups are so big.  But ultimately I ended up figuring out not only how to make sourdough, but how to make it, you know, within a busy life  and with  the very most basic
04:12cheapest ingredients  and with very few tools. So the issue that we were having at the time is we were having some, you know, financial challenges.  And at one point I actually went to the grocery store and had to say, I can afford either bread  or the cheapest all purpose flour that they have one or the other. we just kind of took the leap.  you know, fast forward about
04:36three or four months, I'm making sourdough just like everybody else on the planet. I'm posting it on my Facebook. My friends start reaching out and asking me about it. I start sharing my sourdough starter, much like what happened to you.  And then I found myself getting sore thumbs, texting with my friends all the time, kind of walking them through what to do. So I started this group on Facebook, Sourdough for Beginners, and I've never  had a Facebook group before, so I didn't put any thought into, you know, a public group or
05:06private group or anything like that. I just started the group and started typing out step-by-step instructions on how to make sourdough. So then when my friends would take some sourdough starter from me or reach out and say that they had sourdough starter, I would just give them a link to this group. Well, the group went crazy.
05:27Like I think in the first month there was 5,000 members and by the sixth month there was 250,000 members and by the first year we were well over a million.  And I think the group's approaching 2 million  members now. I haven't looked at it today. So it just, and that's all in the,  in the sort of the, the span  of  18 months or so, two years at max. So,  you know, it just kind of evolved organically from there.
05:56People were coming on asking questions. I found myself  answering the same questions  all the time.  Really early in the process, a lady named Barb Froude, who's located in Alberta,  joined the group and started helping me. So she was sort of our first moderator who came on and she's still our, what I call my chief moderator. She's in that group every day trying to  get rid of the spam and get the literature and the information that we have.
06:25set up for all the newbies who joined the group. I think we're getting sometimes like 10 to 20,000 new members per day. So the biggest struggle with the group is getting that information out there, right? So that sort of led into, okay, well, let's make a video on YouTube. So we made the beginner bread recipe video and it's just kind of evolved from there. It got to a point where
06:54It became basically my full-time job to just, you know, and luckily with the internet, there's ways that you can take something that you're passionate about and that people are responding to,  like they were with Sarado for beginners.  And, you know, if you, if you focus on it, you can build it up so that you can give it more time because there's, there's obviously rewards that come back to you. Things like book sales and  ad revenue and that sort of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Holy crap, Sarah, that's...
07:23That is like an overnight success story for your group. That's unheard of.
07:31It was, it was shocking.  We've done some work  in  internet within our family.  We've, you know, we spent some time talking about it within the family. We're fairly close-knit family. We've got family in Texas and Arizona and up here in Canada. And so as it was going, you know, I had a lot of encouragement from the family. I would wake up in the morning and there'd be a screenshot of my group from my  aunt in Texas.
08:01And she'd be like, Sarah, you're at 50,000. Like what's happening here? You know,  it hasn't been without challenges.  Obviously, you know, managing a group means that you're managing all personalities that are out there. But I've been lucky that this group of moderators, this core group of moderators who have joined,  spend a lot of time within the admin group trying to talk about what we're going to focus on and what it comes down to for us is,
08:30sourdough, sourdough only and specifically making sourdough easy. So you'll never find myself or any of the moderators within the group saying, you can't use bleach flour or you can't use plastic or you can't use metal or you have to do it this way. What the message we're trying to send is you could be in financial hardship just like Sarah was and not be able to afford any tools and use just, you know, $3.99 bleach all purpose flour.
09:00and make this happen. And then you can learn so much over time that you can slowly collect all the things that you would want and get to the point where I'm at where I have, you know, I can grind my own grains. I'm buying wheat from a local farmer. You know, I'm making the healthiest of healthy bread, right? But I got started with nothing. And that's the message that we're trying to put out.
09:25specifically with sourdough for beginners. There's some really excellent groups out there  and amazing teachers. So sourdough geeks  gives a really good overview of like the advanced ways of making sourdough and the best practices  for making the best sourdough that you can.  And then there's guys like  Tom Kakuza who runs the sourdough journey. He can tell you about the science of sourdough  and all of those things I think  are part of the journey.
09:54do sourdough,  it's kind of up to you. Like what part of the journey do you want to enter in on? Yes, exactly. And  I love that the premise of your group is that anybody can try this, do it with what they have, because I always say do what you can with what you have, where you are.  And so, so I had said in our emails back and forth that I had some questions and my first question is,  can you tell how you get a starter?
10:23started. So that's the easiest part, but it seems to be the most intimidating.  And I think people get  really confused about it. So there's ways to go into all the math. But really, all you need is flour and water.  You take equal parts flour and water. Our suggestion is that you start with very small amounts.  The biggest confusion that comes in with starter is the word discard.  And
10:53The easiest way to explain that is that when you're building a sourdough starter, you're just, all you have is flour and water, right? It's not really good for anything.  And there's a certain point within the building of the sourdough starter where it starts to  ferment. And so it's at a certain phase within the fermentation process where it wouldn't taste very good.  It isn't good. So while you're building your starter, you should be kind of throwing away
11:22the waste every day.  But once your starter is established, you never need to discard again. So that discard question  is the biggest confusion. But really, all you do  is,  let's say, 50 grams if you've got a scale. And by the way, if you invest in nothing, I really recommend getting a scale  only because it makes things so very much easier.  But it's not necessary. You  can use cups and everything else. One of the biggest American questions we get is, why is everything in grams when
11:52you know, we're American and we  operate in cups and ounces, but  grams are just more,  what's the word,  accurate. You can get much smaller measurements with grams than you can with ounces.  So 50 grams each of water and flour or  half a cup of flour and a quarter cup of water. So if you're operating on cups, water weighs approximately twice as much as flour. It doesn't really need to be
12:20a scientific experiment where everything's exact. You just mix the flour and water together and leave it sitting on the counter until tomorrow. And then every day thereafter, you bring  that starter back to the initial amount that you started with. So  you started with 50 grams of flour and 50 grams of water, which was 100 grams on the first day, right? Throw half of that away, bring yourself back.
12:48to 50 grams. So now you have 50 grams of starter, 50 grams of water, and 50 grams of flour added in today. Right? So now you've got 150 grams total. On day three, throw away 100 grams, get yourself back to 50 grams  and do that every day.  And when you try to say it out loud, it sounds so confusing. And this is where people start to get caught up with the starter. Right? But really all you need to do
13:18is keep giving that starter base new flour to eat through and water to help it do that process  until it activates. If you're doing things properly, around days  six or seven,  the starter should start to double in size  and it should do that every time you feed it. Does that sound crazy? Does that sound too confusing?
13:45Well, not to me because I've done it. but  back years ago  when people were like, do you do sourdough? I was like, hell no. I don't do sourdough. I don't have time for that. It's a pain in the butt. hear I'm not doing it.  And I was being very obstinate about it. I will, I will be very honest. I did not have time  with four kids and I was doing other things. I just didn't have the want to do it. The  real desire.  But what I will say,
14:15is when my friend brought me starter, I killed it. I didn't beat it for like four days and it just didn't look good and it didn't smell good. And I was like, I think I just need to start over with my own. And so I started mine from scratch and I have a scale. the first day when I set up my little mason jar with my, with my 50 grams of flour and my 50 grams of water, I was like, okay, slick. got it. And I let it sit overnight and then
14:44the same time the next day, pulled off half, put in 50 more grams  of flour, 50 more grams of water, and did that for six, seven days. And it started to do the thing. And I was like, oh my God, I did it. I was so proud of myself, Sarah, that I did it. You're one of those lucky first try  people. Yeah. If it was one message I could get out to everybody who wanted to try sourdough.
15:12It would be that sourdough is so popular right now, unless you like want to overcome the challenge of making your own starter, you could just really go on marketplace on Facebook and there's people willing to give it away or who want 10 bucks for it. Oh yeah. You know, like it's just so much easier to get that starter, but if you can get through the process. So  on the YouTube channel that we have set up sourdough for beginners,
15:39All of the videos there are specifically geared towards people who are just getting started and who have no idea what the heck is going on. Right. And what we've done is we've sorted it into playlists. So if you hit the sourdough for beginners YouTube channel right across the top, says playlist. The playlists are kind of in the order you would need to follow them. So you can just go to the starter playlist and right there it's like, here's a day by day. Follow me for seven days.  And.
16:07we'll make this starter together. And while each day is happening,  all those little nuances that come up, all those questions that, you know, there's probably about 25 questions  about sourdough  that come up over and over and over in the group, right? And when you get to 2 million members, you've just seen them a lot and you know how to answer them.  Well, in these videos, when I make them, I just stand there and talk to them. You know, this might happen or that might happen. You know, focus on this. These are the most common mistakes that we see, whatever it means.
16:39And that is amazing because I didn't know about your podcast and not podcast, your, your,  um, can't talk.  Didn't know about your Facebook group  when I started my sourdough starter. So if I had known, I had known about the videos that would have been really helpful. And now that I know, I probably will go watch them just because I can.  Um, the other thing is that.
17:05This is a really cool science experiment for your kids to be involved in  because cooking is chemistry.
17:14Right, my 10 year old  stepdaughter like brags to people she's like, I know.  She calls, I know the sourdough recipe off by heart,  you know,  and most of it she can do. Her arm's not quite strong enough for some of the initial mixing, but you know, with that supervision and um,
17:37I put my kids' butts on the counter as soon as they could sit up, all of them. By the time my oldest daughter was 11, I could yell down the stairs, Lexi, make me cookies. I've just always included them and I think it's good for them. Like you said, it helps them with science, it helps them with math, it helps them with understanding nutrition, science and health and everything else.
18:06So it's fantastic with kids. really is. of the most viral posts that we get in the group  are people showing what their kids are doing with sourdough.  Awesome. I love it.  And sourdough is very messy and kids love getting their hands in mud.  They're going to love getting their hands in sourdough.  Oh yeah. I didn't realize how sticky that recipe for the  shortcut.
18:36um, bread loaf recipe is.  I was like, Whoa, this is some sticky dough, man. Yeah. So,  you know, usually if you've got sticky dough, um,  one of two things has happened. Um, the first thing is that you've used a high hydration recipe, which we have what we call the beginner bread recipe, which is specifically on purpose, lower hydration.
19:04And then we have like the level two recipe, which starts increasing that hydration.  The lower your hydration is, the denser your bread is going to be, but the easier it is to manage.  the higher your hydration is, the stickier your dough is going to be and the harder it is to manage. your probability of success as a beginner comes up quite a bit if you're working with a lower hydration. that's, that's sort of number one.  Number two  is,  um, if you overproof your dough, it becomes very sticky.
19:34And as a beginner, it's very hard to fix that later. And that's one of the most  common frustration posts that we get is it's too sticky, I can't manage it. I followed the beginner bread recipe,  but it's too sticky, I can't manage it. there's certain things that  I and the moderators in my group feel strongly about, although we never try to really push our opinions on anyone. just say, we think this.  And one of the things that we think is that
20:01leaving your dough on the counter overnight is almost  never a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have, I don't dare to leave my dough on the counter overnight because my dog would figure out a way to get it. And she's a little tiny dog, but she would figure out a way to get it because it probably smells good to her.  If I was going to leave it overnight, I would put it in the refrigerator.  but  the recipe that I used, found online cause that's how I find everything these days.
20:30And when I put all the ingredients together, it was very dry. And I was like, I think I screwed this up already. And when I read further in the recipe, it said that the dough would be very dry to start  and to leave it with a towel over the bowl to rise for an hour because it would get wetter as it did its thing. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go with this because I don't know what I'm doing. Came back an hour later and it had become much
21:00a much wetter dough. And I was like, I will be damned if it worked. This is so cool.  So basically I'm highly entertained by the process and I haven't made another loaf since we were, we were busy with stuff and I've got my, my sourdough starters, two of them downstairs that are all ready to be turned into bread this weekend. And I am, I'm going to on Sunday, I'm going to make two loaves this time  and I'm going to make sure that I actually let it rise long enough.
21:27because last time I think I didn't let it rise quite long enough. my suggestion for you,  once your dough is mixed up, if you can find  clear straight sided containers, and by the way, in the beginner baking playlist on the YouTube channel, there's  a video called Do This One Thing to Guarantee Bulk Proofing Success. I find that people who've made
21:56yeast bread before struggle the most with sourdough at first. mean, usually they, catch up really quickly.  But if you've made bread with yeast in the past, the way yeast bread rises is it rises like a ball, whatever shape it was when it started, it kind of continues to rise in that shape.  The sourdough, what it does is it fills in all the spaces first. So one of the most common things that we see in sourdough is my
22:23dough has been sitting here on the counter for 10 hours and it didn't rise. And the thing is that it did rise,  but you've got it in a giant bowl that has very sloped sides. And so your dough has kind of spread sideways rather than up. Okay. So people end up overproofing their dough. So what we do is we find,  and by the way, I didn't invent this. I learned this somewhere on the internet. I just started to teach it, right?
22:51There's something called like the alico method where people do it with a very small container with a piece of their dough. But essentially what we're saying is if you get a container that fits your dough fairly tightly, so for a standard size loaf, that would be like  a  one and a half or two quart sort of Tupperware container with clear straight sides.  And you get your dough into that and then  you mark the height of it. Then as.
23:18the day goes on, can see exactly how much it's risen because it's tied up against the sides of the dough. So the dough can only go upwards. Okay. And so when it,  when you're looking for the rise, do you want it to double? It depends on, there's a lot of factors  that would affect  why you would let the dough rise more or less. In fact, Tom Cacusa from the sourdough journey has an  excellent chart.
23:48that circulates on the internet. Now that I said it, you'll find it. But essentially what he says is, you know, if it's this temperature in your house and your dough was this temperature at the beginning,  then it needs to rise 35%, 65%, whatever. It's very scientific. And  I'll admit I've never once ever done it that way. But  usually to be on the safe side as a beginner, what I say
24:13is try to stay very consistent and only change one thing at a time. Pick a place to start. If you're gonna use the clear straight sided container and you're gonna let it rise, I would say let it rise to about 75%. Okay.  And  see how that turns out. If it falls a little flat on you when you bake it, then maybe go for 50 or 65 % next time. If it's still not as airy as you want it to be, then maybe let it rise a little bit more.
24:40Because that rise process, all that's happening is the dough is fermenting and creating carbon dioxide bubbles. So it's just a matter of how big those bubbles are.  If the bubbles aren't big enough, then it's very dense bread, right? If the bubbles are too big, they become just like, you know, when you blow a bubble, right? The bigger it gets,  the thinner the skin is, the more likely it is to pop, right? If your carbon dioxide bubbles get too big, then your bread isn't strong enough  to hold its own weight.
25:09before it springs in the oven. Yes, exactly. So really, this is all- Those questions are always funny because people are always like, what percentage? I'm like, I don't know, do it by eye. Yeah, I feel like a lot of sourdough baking is by eye and by feel. And I kind of love it. It's very zen. It's very relaxing once you get, once you become unafraid,
25:38It's very relaxing because you're learning. Exactly. Exactly. The stretch and pull thing. When I read stretch and pull, was like, I don't know what that means. And I did see a video about it. And I was like, oh, you literally take the top part, stretch it and put it down on top. And then you turn the bowl and you do it again. Turn the bowl, do it again. Turn the bowl, do it again. That's a stretch and pull. And the first time was great.
26:06The second time the dough was slightly stickier because it had done its thing and that was a little messy. The third stretch and pull was fine. Fourth stretch and pull was fine and that's all the recipe required. And I was like,  this bread is going to be dense. It's going to be a break, but I'm going to do it anyway. And I did it and it was fine. And the reason I say all that is because  if you don't start,  you don't know. Yep. It's true. The best.
26:33method for sourdough is the one that works best for  you. And once you acknowledge that you have ways of doing things and you understand things a certain way and you're in a certain kind of environment,  you've got humidity and you live in the Bahamas and it's very humid and you live in the desert, why would you expect your bread to be the same? Once  you understand that the process that seems to work
27:02best and most peacefully and most consistently for you is the best process, then you don't have to worry about all the things that are out there. We have kind of a list of what we call the essential processes that we think, and  it's not necessarily that you have to do them,  but we think that if you follow this set of essential processes, you have a much higher probability of success on your first few tries, if that makes sense.
27:32And if you fail on the first or second try, just keep trying. Eventually you're going to get it. That's right. That's right. Or some people just give up and that's okay too, because  you can go to any farmer's market now and get a beautiful loaf of sourdough from somebody who is, you know, supporting their family by making it for 10 or $12. So it's not like you can't enjoy sourdough. Some people just come in and we see that post in the group all the time. You guys are all amazing.
28:00I've enjoyed this journey so much.  I hate sourdough. I'm never making it again, but I love the way it tastes. So I'll be at my farmer's market every Saturday. Yeah. And if you're supporting your local bakers, that's  a great thing to do too.  Um,  the other thing that I see a lot of is people are frustrated because they can't make the beautiful fancy loaves of sourdough bread yet.
28:27Honestly, those are great. mean, if you are that, I don't know, entertained with making sourdough and doing all the fancy designs on the crust,  have at it.  All I want right now is to just make a good sandwich loaf. I'm good with that. Right. We call those the insta loaves.  And,  you know, there's some people who  have artistic ability. You know what I mean? Like it's,
28:55It's the same as saying,  you know, I've never picked up a pen and drawn something in my life, but I'd love to be able to draw a beautiful portrait of my mother. You know what I mean? Like  you have to acknowledge this artistic ability, but everybody can do some beautiful scoring. Um, there's a lot of tricks with scoring that actually can make  the scoring process better and the bread itself better. Um, but it's one of those things where you kind of need to like master the basics first. So in our.
29:25in our world, call it the essential processes, master the essential processes, understand that  there's all these other cool processes out there that exist and that could potentially make your future bread better, right?  Things like mixing your flour and water the night before and letting it ferment overnight before you add your starter, adding your starter and salt later, you know, doing these intricate score techniques, going to super high hydration, all of those things exist.
29:54But if you just come back and master the basics first and get a recipe that you're really enjoying, then you only have to make tiny little adjustments all the time to get to that perfect loaf. And then once you're at the perfect loaf and you can do that every single time or most of the time, because by the way, I still mess up loaves every once in a while. Nine times out of 10, I already knew I messed it up before it goes in the oven, but I just bake it anyway.
30:22You know, then once you get to that, then you can start exploring sort of those  artistic things. And there are influencers out there who  just do beautiful work and they do it slow enough so that you can kind of copy them, right?  that's influencers are generally putting their stuff out  to teach you how, but I mean, if you are going to copy them, make sure you give them credit, course, right? But  especially with artistic stuff, stuff that's, you know, that they designed in their own mind.
30:51But scoring is one of those things. we call it, we say that there's two kinds of scores. There's the functional score that you actually need to assist the bread in rising.  And then there's aesthetic store scores, which you're just doing because you like it.  The aesthetic scores are the ones that are the fancy one. Yeah. So  you need to  put a score in your bread for the science part of it.  Right. So.
31:21You've  fed your starter, it's risen.  You've mixed your dough. You were calling it dry earlier. used to shaggy loaf, right? You've stretched and fold it three or four times every 30 minutes. You've put it in a clear straight-sided container. You've let it rise to somewhere between 65 and a hundred percent. So somewhere between one and a half times to two times its size.  And you you've dumped it out.
31:51pre-shaped it, you've shaped it, maybe you've cold-proofed it overnight, maybe you're just gonna bake it straight away. The score that goes into the bread  and the way you hold  your lame or your razor is gonna kind of affect the way the bread looks. And again, those things come with practice and over time. But essentially you need  a score line that goes from one end of the bread to the other that's about a half an inch deep.
32:19And the reason for that is that when you let the dough rise and then you pre-shaped it and shaped it, you trapped all those carbon dioxide bubbles in there.  And  it's really funny on Facebook, whenever I do a live and I start demonstrating this with my hands, how  the dough sort of  starts out looking like  kind of flat and round. And then in the oven, it springs. I start doing this sort of upward motion with my hands and then.
32:46Facebook Live makes hearts happen and it's hilarious. People go nuts.  putting this score line in  is sort of alleviating some of the pressure on the bread so that it can do that spring. So what sourdough does is it goes in as this kind of bubbly ball  and then it explodes from the inside out. And so that's how you get that belly, that line that everybody's,  people call it an ear.
33:12Right? It's this coveted thing that everybody wants to see on their own sourdough. And that score, that essential score, that functional score  is what assists with that.  And a little trick that you can use is once you put your bread in the oven, set a timer for seven or eight minutes  and look at your bread. And if your bread looks like that score that you cut is fusing together,  what it means is that your bread sort of a little bit too heavy, cut that score line again.
33:40at seven or eight minutes, give it a second chance to  explode outward in because  that's  oven rise is what is the determinant of  a good sourdough loaf or not.  But of course it's everything that leads up to that that determines whether or not that's gonna happen. Gosh, I could go on forever. You're gonna have to stop me and  ask me your questions.  I feel like sourdough bread baking is
34:10all about anticipation. Right. So,  um, the other thing is, is you were talking about the discard at the beginning and I keep seeing recipes for, for discard and somebody told me they make discard chocolate chip cookies and I was like,  huh, okay. The recipe on my YouTube channel. They're so good.  You'll never make chocolate chippies chip, chocolate chippies, chocolate chip cookies.
34:38without sourdough starter again. Yeah, chocolate chippies work. I like that. I'm going start calling them chocolate chippy cookies. It'll be- Here's the thing. You should.  You know what? It's just going to be a thing now for me forever. I'm just going to tell all the girls that's what they have to call it. Yeah. I think that'd be great. If my kids were still little, they would love that. They would giggle every time I said it.  So  I do have a question. Did you self-publish your book or did you do it through a publisher?
35:07I just figured out how to use the software to build the book and self-published it on Amazon. Wow. You just started doing sourdough, what, two years ago? Yep. You're impressive. And then just lived and breathed it for about 18 months.  And I got a lot of help.  I'm an Indigenous woman.
35:37And they're in Canada, sometimes there's good programs for us.  So there was a program called First Nations  Women's  Entrepreneurs,  and they had a program where they would assist with, you know, building up a business. So they helped me with getting the website built, getting all the resources put together to start getting the YouTube channel built, you know, all of that sort of like.
36:07internet stuff.  And like I said, my family does have a little bit of a background in the internet.  So  it wasn't, it wasn't like it was  entirely new to me  to  work on sort of the, the teaching side of the internet and the teaching side  of  something, right? And then with that book, all it really is, is a compilation of all these recipes that I've come up with.
36:34on  a day-to-day, week-to-week basis to contribute to the group. Okay, awesome.  You are a very talented woman, Sarah. Thank you.  Wow. I just feel like a normal human, by the way.  I just made sourdough and shared with my friends. That literally is what happened. But I certainly would never downplay, you know,  if you'd want to do something like this, if you want to teach  about something.
37:03It's important that you're passionate about it that it's something that you really want to do all the time, right? Otherwise it starts to get old. And there is definitely a lot of work that goes into building up something like this.  Yeah. When I started the podcast back in August of 23, for the first six months,  the word podcast came out of my mouth more times than it had in my entire life.
37:30I literally was like, cannot say the word podcast again for a week. I've got to stop doing this. And my husband was like, don't. And I said, why? And he said, because you're so excited about this. He said, this is the thing you're meant to do.  Feel free to talk about it all you want. He said, I haven't seen you this excited in years about anything that is, that's work. And I was like, oh, okay. So I thought I was making you crazy. He said, no, he said, you're driving yourself crazy, but it's a good crazy.
38:00That's fantastic. That's so I think I think I think sourdough is the same for you. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's just  and you know, sometimes there's just opportunities that you can seize. And like you said, you know, your husband encouraged you to seize it. But sourdough has been a family affair around here. I tell you like my same thing with me. My spouse is there trying to hold the camera for me and trying to tell me, you know,
38:27try this, try that. He's in some of my videos doing his funny stuff, you know, like  it's been, you're lucky when you can, you're lucky when you can have all of those things kind of fall together. But even if you don't have all of those things, if you,  you love it, then you you should, you should do it.  Yes. And honestly, making a loaf of sourdough bread costs less than buying the sourdough, buying any kind of bread at the store. It really does.
38:56It's the best, think the  most fun part. So just going back to that book, like the way I got all these recipes  and just because you mentioned your husband, every recipe I made was something that my family asked me to make. the first one, my husband was like, I saw that people are making cinnamon buns with sourdough starter in them. And that's like his favorite thing on the planet. So we just made them, right? And then we tweaked the recipe and
39:26You know what I mean? Tried to make it the way we wanted it to be. then since you're in the group and you're operating the sourdough YouTube and everything, might as well share it with everybody. And over the two years, that's just kind of how it went. Cinnamon buns, dinner rolls, sandwich bread, you know. And  on the YouTube channel, there's a playlist called Discard Recipes, even though it's not technically discard.  That word discard is so confusing for people.
39:53Well, feel like most of recipes you can use active starter. If you want. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like discard comes across as negative and maybe we should call it bonus bonus starter. That would be good. That would be good. The only time you really need to throw your starter away and you really should throw it away is just in that first six or seven days. And I, some people are very against waste and I completely understand that. But we're talking about like.
40:23in total about a cup of flour.  know, after that, so the, so the general rule with what we would call discard recipes or recipes that are everything other than sourdough bread is  if the recipe needs to rise, then it needs to be either active starter  or inactive starter with a little bit of yeast added. Right. So that's things like cinnamon buns.
40:52dinner rolls,  sandwich bread, know, anything that rises. If it doesn't need to rise, go ahead and use whatever starter you've got. Use your active starter, use your starter that's been sitting in your fridge for a week and hasn't been fed. It's a little less active, right? That's things like cookies and brownies and crackers. Crackers, yes. Yeah.
41:17That's a funny thing. I've never once ever tried to make crackers. And I think that's like the most popular, um, sourdough discard recipe that there is, but it's just no one in our family eats them. But put me on some pizza dough and oh my gosh, we've made some pizza dough. We've got to try that. We have a pizza steel that you actually put in the oven and heat up. So we're going to try doing a sourdough pizza dough. Um, probably not this weekend, but next weekend we're going to try it see how turns out.
41:47Um, well, Sarah, this was fabulous.  we're wait, we're, we're 12 minutes over half an hour here because I try to get used to half an hour.  Where can people find you?  So  at sourdough for beginners,  just spell out the whole word and then it's for FOR on Facebook and YouTube.  Um, when you go on Facebook and you want to find the page,  um, we've got the blue check.
42:15We're on Instagram and Tik Tok too, but much smaller followings. I, my daughter tells me I'm too old and I don't know how to use Instagram or Tik Tok properly, but it's at Sarah sourdough for beginners on Instagram and Tik Tok. But my recommendation is, know, just go to the YouTube channel. It's we've really organized it well. Okay.  And tell me again, the YouTube channel handle at at sourdough for beginners.  Okay. Cool.
42:42Thank you so much for your time, Sarah. This was so fun. And honestly, I have been so not motivated to do sourdough. And as soon as my friend brought me that starter, was like, I am going to dive in. The name of our place is a tiny homestead. Sourdough bread is part of homesteading. I need to learn how to do this. So I'm thrilled that I got to talk to you today. It was great. Thank you for having me. I'm really honored.
43:11and you know just keep doing it you're gonna really like it and it's so good for you it's good for the kids it's good for everything. It is and I'm excited to keep trying new things.  As always people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com.  Sarah I hope you have a great day. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.
 

Cooper's Knoll Farm

Today I'm talking with Jena at Cooper's Knoll Farm.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters, and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis.  A Tiny Homestead podcast is sponsored by Homegrown Collective, a free-to-use farm-to-table platform emphasizing local connections with ability to sell online, buy, sell, trade in local garden groups, and help us grow a new food system.  You can find them at homegrowncollective.org.
00:27Today I'm talking with Jena at Cooper's Knoll Farms. Good morning Jena, how are you? Good morning, I'm great, how are you?
00:37I'm good. You're in Ohio, right?  I am right in central Ohio, right outside of Columbus. How do you pronounce the name of your town? Pataskala.  It's a popular question.  Yeah, I was looking at your Facebook page and your About page and I was like, I have no idea how to say that one.  Pataskala, Ohio. We're about 20 minutes outside of Columbus. Pretty convenient location and...
01:05Easy to get to wherever you need to go, but still in the country, which is really nice. Yes, yes. 20 minutes to actual stores helps when you really need something.  Is it raining in Ohio? Because it's raining in Minnesota this morning. It is not. We got some storms yesterday, but we're hoping it does rain today because we are in a massive heat wave.  We're a heat index of 100. So everything right now is  how do we keep the animals cool?
01:34We're trying to work through this heat wave and hoping for a little rain actually. Yeah. How long has it been super hot for you?  This whole week. So, but since  maybe Friday last week. we've got a week straight of hundred degree index,  heat index. So,  and then before that it rained so much, we couldn't get it to stop. And now it's just dry and hot. So  you  can't get a good mix. It's all,  it's one way or the other. That's it.
02:04You can't win. Yeah, I know.  I feel really bad for complaining about the fact that it was so hot this past weekend in Minnesota because we only had really hot for two days.  a whole week of it, I would have been ripping my hair out by now. So. Well, yesterday was supposed to be the end of the heat index and then they have extended it now through,  through Saturday. So  just doing what we can to stay cool.  am so sorry.  It's no fun.
02:34Okay, so tell me a little bit about yourself and about your farm because I can't wait to hear this story. Well, I'm Gina and my husband is Richard. We have two boys. They are ages 10 and 11. And then two years ago, we also inherited a daughter, a bonus daughter. She was 20 and
03:01parents had both passed away in the same weekend. She spent the night with us and never left. we've got we've got a bonus daughter that's going to be 22 as well that that lives with us. And my mother-in-law lives here too. And so we have a little multi generational home and I work full time and my husband works full time too. So he's a data assessment coordinator at at Reynoldsburg schools here in Ohio.
03:31And I work full time as a regional sales manager for an education software company.  So I manage our entire Northeast territory and all of Canada. I  teach jazzercise on the side when I'm not recovering from ACL surgery as I am now.  Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because it said something about that you didn't realize you would be bottle feeding lamb.  Oh, yeah. When you were down.
03:58ACL surgery two weeks ago,  delivered a goat on Sunday sitting with my brace on the floor of our barn and then  had creamy twin sheep  and  lost one and have had a house sheep for the last two weeks as well. So farming from my couch friend, farming from my couch.  the animals don't wait unless you're dead. Unless you're dead, you're working. Yeah.
04:25Exactly. So it has been adventurous here. tell me about how the farm got started because I get the impression that wasn't the original plan.
04:39No, it was not.  So  when COVID happened,  we were  living in a suburb  where my husband was invincible and it just was not good.  And our kids were stuck in this postage stamp size yard and we just wanted more space for them to run.  And so  we had decided then that we were going to get some land where the boys could go outside and run.
05:08play. And so we started looking for like two to four acres. And long story short, long story short, we were looking for two to four acres and the day before we went to look at properties, this 10 acre property popped up. And so we went and looked at all the properties and the 10 acre one actually ended up being just as much or less than the others that we were looking at that were smaller. So we we got this one, we built our house.
05:38And then we decided we were going to try and keep our CAUB taxes or farm taxes.  Didn't realize how in depth that is in Ohio,  but it is. So we got a couple goats  and we were going to have these goats and thought, yes, now we're going to pay for them taxes and everything's good. And then we found out that they actually look at your land and how much you are using for animals.
06:04Yeah. And so we were like, well, we need more pastures built and we are going to need some more animals to be able to justify this.  And so I had always loved shingles and cows. Before they were like popular and a thing, I had always loved them.  And so I told my husband, said, let's get a couple of cows and maybe a sheep just to, to, you know, have some things here. And I would love to have a lot of shingles in my backyard.  So.
06:33Another long story short,  we ended up  in April of 2023, April of 2023, we got 10 sheep and three cows in one day.  I don't do anything slow.  So  we got all of these animals in one day. And then we had a bunch of messages on Facebook of people just saying like, can I come see your cows? Can I come see your cows? Can I come see your cows?
07:01So I told my husband, said, why don't we just open up every Saturday in May, five spots, we'll charge like $50 an hour and see if anybody will come do a tour to see them. And that'll help offset our cost for the feed. And he was like, yeah, okay, we can try it. So we made a Facebook page and put it out just to our local community, like Pataskala page. That's it. We just were like, hey, this is what we're doing. We had.
07:282400 members of our group in 24 hours and sold out every five slot every Saturday in May.  In like a week's time. my god. We were like,  what just happened?  And it's just me and him. And so we started running tours, I do photography on the side. So we offered photography for some of the tours and did that and everybody loved it.
07:56Later, we had  local artists start asking us about doing classes  at the farm. so we did our first class was a Highland Cow painting class by a local  women owned business artist. And so she came out here and did that. We had 35 ladies show up for that class.  And we painted in our barn that was totally not set up for events at all, but we made it work.
08:21So we did a painting class and then that just led to another thing and another thing and another thing. And we've had a candle making class here. Now we've had pottery making classes and a rug making class. And so that's one of our unique things besides hosting birthday parties and things like that. So yeah, that's kind of the story of how we just got started and now we have about 130 animals on the farm.
08:50just built a new chicken coop. have Highlands  micro mini donkeys that we just got literally the night before my surgery. We just had our first calf.  And we are now currently raising meat chickens and we have loppier bunnies and goats  and  yeah, just everything. So wow. You are in deep. Been a wild ride. Yes.  So did you or your husband have any experience with
09:19farm stuff at all before this? I mean, my husband's uncle was a farmer in Alabama. So whenever he went to visit his family, he would hang out. I did grow up on a farm in Millersburg, Ohio. It was a family farm. And so, but we didn't have a lot of animals. I raised a pig for 4-H. We raised rabbits for a while, but never goats, sheep, donkey, like none of that.
09:47We had a few Angus cows, but like they were mean. We weren't really allowed near them.  We did mostly corn and hay on our land. So I did grow up on a farm, but listen, I had no intentions whatsoever of being a farmer. That was not in my planning whatsoever.  Well, congratulations, because you are now, honey.  I still am like,  is this real? Am I really?
10:16I'm literally a farmer. I don't know how this happened.  Well, it's also really interesting that your husband's job and your job have nothing to do with agriculture. No, not at all. Nope. But we love it. And we just we literally have joined a ton of Facebook pages,  the people that we've purchased animals from, we have made sure that they are good mentors to us.
10:42And so we've been really, really blessed with some amazing people and mentors.  I still remember delivering my first goat and FaceTiming the lady that we got her from and  Amber is her name and freaking out and her walking me through it and then being like, oh, okay. And now I've coached people through birthing animals and  that's kind of cool.  Yeah. The only experience I have with baby anything is my kids  and  kittens.
11:11We got a female cat showed up here a couple of springs ago and we thought she was a kitten because she was so small and she was actually six months old. She was always a small cat even when she was an adult and she gave us three litters of kittens. Oh my goodness. And I got to see the first litter just after they'd all been born. I didn't actually see them being brought into the world but they were still wet.
11:39Yep. And the kittens are so tiny. I can't even imagine. Yeah, we haven't had kittens here, but I had them at my old friend's, so itty bitty. Yeah, and they were just soaked and hurt. She was a very long-haired cat, so her tail, it looked like another kitten because it was all wet too. And I was like, oh, I think she had seven. And my husband was like, no, she had six. And I said, but what's, why am I seeing another kitten? And he said, because you're seeing her tail beside the kittens.
12:08He said, she is drenched. said her whole back end, that water breaking must have been epic.  There's definitely a lot of goo involved in brooding animals.  One of our best ones this year was one of our goats was supposed to have triplets  and  she actually went into labor during one of our tours. And so I was like, Hey guys, sorry, tours over or this is going to be your tour. And we obviously told them they could come back.
12:37So my mom happened to be here visiting and so she and my husband came out and helped. And so we delivered baby one, baby two, baby three. And then we were just kind of waiting on the placenta.  And so I said, all right, well, looks like, wow, it looks like she's gonna push the placenta out. I've never had anyone do that before.  And then I said,  guys, the placenta has nose and legs.  I don't think this one's a placenta. So she actually ended up having quadruplets, which was  crazy  and super fun.
13:06Nice. How did she do? Did you have to take some in? great. She did great.  The little baby girl, there was one girl and three boys.  The baby girl actually went as a bottle baby  because  we had a family that was experienced with bottle babies that wanted one and we just knew it would make things easier on mom. honestly, she was doing just fine. So,  but she raised the boys just fine. And the little girl actually just won first place at her local fair.
13:35And so it's really fun to Oh, so you have an award winning goat that you have to broaden the world. That's amazing. We do. do ADGA registered Nigerian dwarf goats.  And  we've really invested heavily into that program and into our Scottish Highlands.  And so that's what we're really  mainly focused on, even though we have a little bit of everything. Well, if you're going to have a petting zoo, it's good to have a variety.
14:04Right? Exactly. Exactly. We  really pride ourselves that our animals, almost every single animal on this farm, we have purchased as a baby or a weanling  and  raised to them here because we're very, very picky about our personalities. I mean, they can be award winning, but they also have to be nice.  So  it's pretty fun, Yeah, that's a good plan to have because  mean animals are  no fun.
14:33No, and  they can pass that to their kids.  A lot of people, I don't think, realize that the personality of the parents really matters.  It's a question that we always tell people, even if you're not going to buy from us, make sure you ask our mom and dad on site. What are their personalities like of the parents? Those kinds of things. So we try to do a lot of education.
14:55Because there are so many scammers, there are so many farms out there that are buying animals at auction and reselling them for what they're not supposed to be. And  so we try to do a ton of education for people when purchasing an animal, especially like a Scottish male and mini donkey. There are just so many not real people out, scammers, flat out scammers, then,  you know, farms that maybe, maybe haven't done things the right way. And so we try to educate on just what questions to ask, what, what things to ask.
15:24If you're buying it online, make sure you FaceTime them, get videos of them. I used to have people send me a code word. You need to make a video of the animal and use the code word jump or something, you know? They think I'm crazy and I'm like, hey, I need to make sure you're a real person and not just sending me a random video of an animal. So, um. Yeah. And I would suggest that no one ever send money to anyone for an animal ever because I've read stories of people trying to get puppies.
15:54And the person selling the puppy is like, okay, so I need a deposit for this, you know, for the first half of the cost, and then you can pay me the rest when you pick up the puppy. And then  there's no puppy.
16:09Yep. Yep. We've seen that happen a lot.  We do deposits, but we always make sure that they have videoed us.  They have seen the puppy, you know, like if you're doing that kind of thing, you can make sure that it's a real person come out to our farm, visit us, come see them, touch them, feel them, you know, all that kind of stuff. So,  but yeah, it's, it's a scary world out there. the internet is a double, double edged sword.
16:39I was going to say double bladed something and I was like, no, that's not it.  Didn't get a lot of sleep last night. Double edge sword because it makes things  so easy and so convenient and so wonderful. mean, I am having a chat with you in my bedroom in front of my computer in Minnesota  and you're in Ohio. It's amazing.  I love it, but it also makes it really easy for people to fool you. And that is so terrible. hate that part.
17:08I do too. And that's why we try to educate people. Like not everybody's bad. You know, we're real people that have real animals. And just try to educate people on what questions asked to make sure that they don't fall into that. I mean, I've had some pretty good ones. I've looked into a couple of animals where you're having a conversation and it seems legit. And I'm pretty cautious. And I've had two almost get me because at the end they say, you know,
17:36you need to send this much money and then they get really pushy about it. And  that's when you know, like, oh, dang, I almost fell for that one. So  they've gotten pretty creative.  like you said,  our three of our Highlands, our original Highlands are from  Taylor Blake out of Florida.  She's got, she's kind of famous on YouTube and TikTok and all the things with her hilarious animal videos  got connected with her. She's been a great mentor friend.
18:05And I never would have had that without the internet. You know, our other cows are from Tennessee, Michigan, Kentucky. So some really amazing people out there too. Yeah. I actually found myself thinking the other day,  how in hell did we meet people before the internet?  That's a really good question.  And being able to stay in touch with people you meet in person, you know, is, is really fun too.  Yeah, absolutely. mean,
18:35I tend to keep up with everyone that I talk to for the podcast because you guys become in my head friends. And so I have like a list of people I check every morning to make sure everything is okay at their place, even in Oh, So yeah, it's funny how your brain connects whether you actually meet someone in person or not. 1000%. I mean, my real job is all Zoom meetings.
19:04We work with school districts all over the Northeast and Canada,  and 90 % of our work is over the internet.  We do go to visit in person sometimes our larger districts, but you can't get to everybody. So  living in Ohio and not actually living in any of the states  that I work in,  I get there in person once in a while, but  all of those relationships are internet. Yep. It's so hard though, because  like,
19:32I have a little heart spot for everyone I talk to on this thing, on this podcast. And when I see videos of my new quote unquote friends going through hell with losing an animal or they have a house fire or a barn fire, I literally cry. Like I can't stop myself because I feel so connected to you guys. Oh, absolutely. I feel you there. Like we have people we've never met before that go through things.
20:01done fundraisers for them, all kinds of stuff for people we've never even met but have been good, you know, buddies and mentors and sounding boards for animals. I mean, we had we lost one of our baby sheep that was born as a preemie two weeks ago.  So we had our brother as a house sheep and  the outpouring of love from people just so sad about this sheep for instance was just amazing and 90 % of them we've never met. So  but it was great still to have the support.
20:31Yeah, absolutely.  anyone who's in farming or homesteading knows that if you have livestock, you're going to have dead stock. It is just a fact. Yeah. And you get to a point with it where, yes, your heart hurts, but  my knee jerk now  is shit happens. You know, there's just no avoiding it.  That  will not be my response when my dog dies. I love my dog more than
20:59life itself. She's amazing. I've talked to her to the point of sickening on the podcast since I started it. That one's gonna hurt. But now one of our barn cats didn't show up the other morning. He's fine. He's back. But my immediate thought was, okay, now we're down to one barn cat. It's time to get a couple new ones. It wasn't, oh no, he's dead. I'm gonna be sold. Well, I'll tell you this morning, I texted my husband and said,
21:28So  the bottle baby sheep we sent to his new home today.  He's actually going to be at one of the exhibits at the Ohio State Fair.  They have like a bottle baby and babies and mamas display that they do  with goats and sheep and things.  He was just too much for me to keep up with recovering from my ACL surgery and he's been inside.  My oldest son and I are kind of the simps of the family.
21:54We just bawled and bawled together on the couch for a while. And I told my husband, said, leaving me and Noah home  as the two when this, when Latte left was not a great idea.  So,  but we'll be okay, but we do miss him already.  It's,  it's hard. mean, it's, it's very bittersweet. You put time and love into that baby  and now he's going to go live somewhere else and I'm sure he'll be fine, but it hurts.
22:24So I understand.
22:30Yep.  So,  um, I saw something about a summer class you're doing for kids in July. Is that right? Say that again.  I saw something about a summer class you're doing for kids in July. We  are, um, we're very excited.  Um, this is brand new for us. We've never done it before.  Um, and so July 7th through the  11th, we're going to be running our first kids camp.  Um, and so.
22:58For ages six to 16, we hired just a couple months ago. We finally were to the point where we hired a farm manager because we just can't keep up with this ourselves. It has been too much. And so she's amazing. And she had a little farm of her own and because of circumstances had to shut down her farm. And so she's helping us and she has an eight year old son.
23:27They have just been incredible.  And so  she is a former educator  and  I have my master's in administration and in music education. And my husband was a high school band director and a high school principal for a very long time too. And so we're all in education.  And so  it's kind of great to be able to have people with that kind of background to be able to put a camp together. So we have  two local artists coming out. We have a...
23:56pottery class,  pottery project on Tuesday of camp. And  we have a local author coming out who's also a bison farmer and he's gonna read his book  and come out and visit the kids and talk to them about bison.  And then we have a candle making class that is one of the ladies is gonna come out. And so we've developed this tight knit group with other, they just happen to be women owned local businesses as well.  And we work with a bakery,
24:25And  we work with another lady that does just all kinds of craft projects from like chunky blankets and things like that. And so  those two are  participating in our camp and then the local author. And  we're really excited about it.  I think it's going to be a really good time.  That's amazing. I love it.  And yay, girl power. mean, yeah, it's taken a long time for women to become the amazing
24:55gender that they are. Let's put it that way.  Yep, absolutely.  so the three of us, it's Caitlin from Create Joy DIY Studio  and Tabitha from Common Sense Wax Company. And they've done a couple classes out here and then we said, you know what, let's start meeting once a month just to keep each other accountable.  We'll bring our computers, do our social media stuff together,  brainstorm ideas, run things past each other. And so we started meeting for coffee once a month.
25:24And now we have Lori from Lori's Bake Shop, who's a local baker. She has also joined us. And so we're kind of in the process of developing this local, there's tons of business groups, but there's not groups for just women owned local businesses. And so we're kind of in this process of developing this local women owned business group,  just support for each other.  And it's been just a blast to get to know these amazing women who have had great advice for me.
25:54We're currently working on a pass program where you could purchase a pass that would get you like an activity of each of our businesses  to see if that would fly too. So lots of different ideas and things and they're just amazing humans.  And so I've been really blessed to connect with them.  love it. I love it. I knew this was going to be a great conversation. I  knew it.  I think I'm still processing that I'm a business owner.
26:22that still is like, oh yeah, I literally am running a business, which is kind of crazy. Yes, I can relate. I was interviewed on a podcast by a friend  last week and she was like, so Mary is and she was like, she has a small farm, she this, she that. Oh, and she's a podcast host.  And the thing that stuck out to me the most was
26:47Oh, and she's a podcast host. was like, I never refer to myself as a podcast host. That's so weird. That's, that's what you are.  Believe it or  not. Yeah. I,  I have had this real weird disconnect with it because when I started it, I started it as a lark. I was like, I need a project. I'm going to try this. It'll probably fall apart in the first seven episodes and that'll be it.
27:13Almost two years later, it is going strong, it's growing and I love it. And because I love it, I don't see it as a job. when she said, she's a podcast host, my gears in my brain locked up. I was like, I'm a what? Okay. Right. Say what? Same thing here. We're like, we just have a farm that people come visit and it's kind of cool. And I'm like, oh yeah, it's not a business that makes money right now. Maybe someday.
27:42Yeah, the podcast is starting to make a little bit, but I am definitely not swimming in dollar bills right now.  Social media and getting things out there, that's probably one of our biggest challenges is we do so much  work outside on the farm.  And I know that monetizing like YouTube or something, like we have plenty of videos that would go viral on YouTube, but
28:11finding the time to sit there and make a reel,  put it online and like I never sit down as it is.  Well, I do now with my ACL but you know, I just don't  I don't have the time. I never wanted to be a social media marketer. That was not the job I wanted to do. And being a farmer is just so interesting because you have to be caretaker, you have to be veterinarian, you have to be  you know,
28:40social media marketer, have  to be 10 different jobs in order to farm in this day and age if you want to be profitable. That's one of our biggest challenges is just coming up with the time  to do the social media and to get things out there. How do you get enough followers? Where do you post? What time is most effective?  That's one of our hardest things to get through, I think, that we're still
29:09Figuring out.
29:13Yeah, I am a half-assed social media person. Like, I am not gonna go out of my way to make something. I don't know  what would be defined as fabulous. I  don't. just, my husband will send me a video of the cat that was cute and I will post it and people are like, oh, that's cool. And I get like, you know, a few followers out of it. I don't care.  I want to share stuff. I want people to come listen to the podcast. I want people to know that we have eggs for sale.  Other than that.
29:42I just share what I share. And if people like it, cool. And if they don't, they can go somewhere else. It's fine. Yeah. I think with the Petting Zoo farm, it's like trying to bring it in that business,  market our tours, get spots filled, that kind of thing. Like the camp,  we really focused on birthday parties in January, February, and we filled up really, really well for spring.  And now it's like,  oh crap, our camp is in two weeks and we have two kids signed up.  We probably should push this.
30:09So last night we got a couple different posts and posted to a bunch of different groups and we had three registrations this morning already. And it's like, just whatever you're focusing on is, what's going to do well, but there's a hundred thousand things we want to focus on. So  it's just kind of narrowing it in and figuring out the seasons, you know, as we go.  And it's interesting year to year as well, because our first year, our classes did really, really well.  Last year was a really tough year for everything. Nothing did well last year.
30:38I think just being an election year, think people were scared about what was going to happen and nobody did anything. And then this year, our classes didn't do very well, but our animal stuff has done well. So we have now like  a VIP tour where you can meet everybody.  We have donkey dates  where you can  have a smaller group that gets to come walk the donkeys, brush the donkeys and learn just about them. We have highland hangouts.  And so we've been able to expand our tour options.
31:07And it's just kind of experiment, learn and fail and try again. Right. So that's, we're still in that. I beating myself up because we're not doing this or that or the other thing. And everybody's like, dude, you've been in business for two years.  Yeah.  You're doing pretty good for two years then. And it's like, yeah, we've built,  um, this was literally a soybean field when we bought it. And so we've developed this completely from scratch. There was no infrastructure here.
31:36No water run to barns, nothing run anywhere. And we've built so far three pastures  and one, two, three, four, five barns.  And we just bought the 14 acres next to us as well, which is like, well, now we have that.  But we need money to be able to do something with it. So it's this constant battle of.
32:02much we want to do versus how much we can do financially, physically, all of that.  Yeah, this past year has been really rough. And  I think it's because of inflation. think it's because grocery prices have gone up so  much.  And people are really, really watching their pennies. We are.  My husband has a good job. And we're still like, okay, where's the least expensive place to get this thing where it's still edible?
32:32You know,  and we have a huge garden. mean, we are so excited that we're going to probably have our first zucchinis in this weekend.  Because we are not going to buy produce at the store when we can grow it. That would be silly. That was on our list this year.  But it kind of fell by the wayside with  in January, my husband actually tore his quad muscle.  Got his foot stuck in the mud, literally just went to pull it out.
33:00and  snap his quad completely detached from his knee.  So he couldn't drive or walk for three months. So now that he's recovering, then I had ACL surgery and it was just like that  garden  did not make it this year, but we're hoping to next year.  I have a black thumb too, so I'm a little worried about killing everything I put in the garden.  Animals, I can keep those alive. Plants, that's a whole other story.
33:30Uh-huh. Yeah. No, I'm gonna try. I'm gonna try.  Patience and grace will help out a lot in your situation because you do have a lot going on.  We do.  But we love it.  All right, Gina. I try to keep you to half an hour. We're there. Thank you so much for your time and the great stories.  And don't leave me when I stop recording because I need your file to upload from your side too, okay?
33:57That sounds great. Thank you so much.  So great talking to you today. All right. Have a fantastic day. Thank you.  Oh, and I'm sorry. Where can people find you, Gina?  Oh, yes. So on Facebook and Instagram, we're Coopers, C-O-O-P-E-R-S, K-N-O-L-L,  And then our website is www.coopersnullfarm.com.
34:22Okay, because I want people to go and  do things with you so that you can get that  next 14 acres developed.  We would love that. We have a YouTube channel too that's also Cooper's Knoll Farm. So if you want to follow us there, I think we have six subscribers so far. So there you go. Maybe we'll get some more.  That would be great.  As always, people can find me at AtinyHolmsteadPodcast.com and I made that name way too long.  All right. Thank you, Gina. Have a great day. Thanks, Mary. Bye.
 

Shady Lane Farm

Today I'm talking with Martin at Shady Lane Farm.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis.  A Tiny Homestead podcast is sponsored by Homegrown Collective, a free to use farm to table platform, emphasizing local connections with ability to sell online, buy, sell, trade in local garden groups and help us grow a new food system.  You can find them at homegrowncollective.org. Today I'm talking with Martin at Shady Lane  something.
00:29and the computer just like blanked out your name, Shady Lane something  in Illinois. Martin, tell me the name of your place again.  It is Shady Lane Farm. Thank you.  Once I hit record, it like cuts off half the people's names of their places. And if I haven't memorized it, I don't know what it is. So thank you.
00:51So what's the weather like in Illinois today, Mark? It  is cooler. It is only going to be 86 after about four days of  90s.  And we have occasional thunderstorms, but it's cloudy, not a bad day. We were out doing chores this morning. So not a horrible day to do chores. Yeah. Was the weekend rough on you guys? Cause it was really hot here in Minnesota. Yeah, it was. We...
01:19Mostly because I made everybody get up early to do chores before it got too hot. So it was, it was pretty rough, but we got through it. Yeah. The secret to homesteading and farming is get everything done before 10 AM that you have to do outside. Yes. We had a triathlon that came through our neighborhood here on Sunday and it was a heat index over 100. Yeah, it was gross.
01:50I think it's supposed to be 82 here today at like three, four o'clock and 82 is better than a heat indices of 105. Yes. So thankful times have come down. So tell me about what you do at your place. So what we do and we bought this five acre property in 2023, my wife, Lisa and I, I have been an urban homesteader.
02:18for many years  and finally it got to a point where  I had rented all the garden plots I could from the local park district and they had started to take plots back from us, which I understood to  because more people wanted to vegetable garden after COVID, which I totally support. I had failed in an attempt to get chickens allowed in the city.
02:48So  I went to Lisa and I said, you know, we just redid this beautiful colonial house here in Rockford. And we love it. Let's sell it and buy a rundown five acre  property  and do it all again  and  add animals and fencing  and  new garden and building all these scoops. And she said, okay. That's a good woman. And she had,  um,
03:18There were farms in her past,  but she herself had no homesteading experience. I had just taught her the vegetable garden  and  she was completely interested in doing it.  And she took a year off from her second master's degree  and was the general contractor for all the work on the house  and has really adapted to it.
03:47And now  is full on farm girl. Her cousins and relatives can't believe it. Has she raised a bottle lamb this spring all on her own  and  just has totally adapted to it. She's embraced it. Yes.  Awesome. I love her. That's great.  So why did you want to do this? Did you,  was it, was it just because you couldn't have chickens or did
04:17were you brought up around farming or what? Well, my mom's family  out in Western Kansas had a tradition  of farming  and she spent part of her childhood  on a small farm, very small by Kansas standards. They milked a few cattle, very, very rural. They made their own electricity with an AC Delco
04:46windmill generator.  Once they had milk, they would shut down the power to the house from the windmill and they'd power radio off the batteries because they had to use all the power to chill the milk. So she grew up very, very rural,  processing their own food, canning.
05:10They had a root cellar. So she grew up with all of that homesteading. In fact, that side of the family arrived in Western Kansas in 1887 and took up a homestead claim. So literally they were homesteaders. Wow. Yeah. She brought that ethos to even our very suburban upbringing. She would can things. She would
05:39very much make things from scratch. I grew up making my own egg noodles  that she taught me to make.  We didn't have a big garden because many of our government houses, you just didn't have the space for it.  But all of that ethos was very much there.  And I spent time in Kansas in summers and when my dad was in Vietnam. So
06:07it really impacted me. And then when I was earning my PhD in American history, my dissertation was  on the settlement of the far Western counties of Kansas between 1890 and 1929. And that transitional period where the railroad and real estate companies were pushing people to do  self-reliant homesteading.
06:34with truck gardens and raising their own food and raising for the nearby, well, there weren't really any nearby market  communities, but to ship things out by railroad.  And I became fascinated by these trains, the Santa Fe Railroad ran that basically taught you how to do all this. You come from the city, you get a homestead claim.
07:00Now this is how you make money on your homestead, doing these  various things. Oh, you can raise watermelons, you can raise this, you can  do small agricultural animal production. And so that planted a seed in my head and I like the idea of self-reliance  and  I like the idea of knowing where my food came from. Wow, okay. Now.
07:28It cut out when you were describing the woman that you were talking about. That was your mom? That was my mom. Yes. My mom  came from that. My grandparents, her parents, had  survived the Dust Bowl in the  1930s. And  so  that also informed everything in our house.
07:54that they had lived, sets of grandparents had lived through the Great Depression. So very much to be frugal  and to do those kinds of things.  My Irish grandparents who were fresh off the boat, my grandmother, I only found out later, kept  the traditional Irish market values. So  she would have my grandfather drive her out into the country.
08:23outside of Boston and should buy bushels of potatoes, bushels of vegetables and keep them in their basement in Boston.  And because they were cheaper, she wasn't going to pay the grocery store prices  and she could process them herself into anything she wanted. You came from Hardy stock, sir.  Yes.  I love it.
08:52And I love that you know all of this about your people because so many people don't know anything about their ancestors past their parents and possibly their grandparents. my dad's mom died when my dad was two years old. I never met her. He doesn't even remember her. And I so wish that there was a way to do, I don't know, a telephone to her so I could ask her about her life. know? Yeah.
09:21It's funny because I'm a history professor, but my family picks on me because I don't actually ever want to do art history.  They're like, and I'm like, well, that's not history. That's genealogy. But I will go on and on about the place where we come from  and that. So, but yes, I am not interested in genealogy. I am a disappointment to them.
09:49I feel like genealogy and history are very interwoven. So for me, I'm interested in both things.  And I have traced my lineage back to William the Conqueror in England on my mom's side. And I have traced my lineage back to the Salem witch trials on my dad's side. So  I got some weird, crazy things going on in my ancestry.
10:16Anyway, so what do you have on your farm? Do you have critters? Do you have produce? Do you have D all of the above? D all of the above. Okay. If we start with the vegetable garden, we have a 6,000 square foot vegetable garden that we broke in last year, which was an adventure in itself. The land had never been gardened by the people who had previously owned it.
10:45for 50 years.  And so we had to knock down a bunch of trees. It was a very typical rural story. Grandma built the house, daughter inherited it, daughter got  old and sick,  property got overgrown in trees, family dumped garbage  on the property. So we had abandoned boats, campers, tractors, yard tractors,  which we arranged for them all to take.
11:15But we still had all these just little groupings of trees that had popped up. So we had that cleared. And then approaching the soil, we actually had to rent  a cold mold board plow.  And we plowed it all up with our tractor. And then we had to till it, till it again, disk it again, plow it again.
11:41And so last year it was really intense trying to get it done  on time to get it planted. And it's turned out we have great soil. So we can grow anything. So  we grow, we have a big pumpkin patch. We usually do. We grow lots of watermelons, tomatoes, peppers,  all the brassicas.  So cabbage, lots of broccoli.
12:10We're not canners were freezers. We have a lot of freezers. So we freeze all the broccoli lots of peas and beans. Radishes  leaf lettuce.  I just successfully grew my first head lettuce ever. Ornamental corn  and popcorn  and two kinds of sweet corn. Very nice. In fact, the sweet corn  last year.
12:40kind of marked the beginning  of  us  selling things because  I planted a lot of sweet corn  and it came in really well and I said, hey, anybody want to buy some sweet corn?  And we completely sold out of sweet corn. So this year we're double the amount of sweet corn  because we didn't even get any sweet corn last year. We usually decurnal it and freeze it for the winter.
13:08And we got no sweet corn last year for us. So the garden  is wonderful. We grow parrots, pak choi. People always ask me what I grow and I say name it and we're probably growing it.  Strawberries,  cut flowers is a new thing this year. We were asked by some people to grow cut flowers  and to sell  kind of make your own flower arrangement flowers. So we're trying that this year.
13:38What  flowers are you growing? Because I love flowers you can bring in the house.  Lots of dahlias, poppies, dianthus, salacea,  daisies,  lots of cosmos because they're very popular for arranging. So  yes, we have just multiple varieties.
14:07And they're doing pretty well, but we direct so. So that's always an F-E thing. It's better if you seed start, but I don't seed start.  I don't like to seed start. So.  Awesome. And what do you have for animals?  For animals, we have rabbits. The rabbits are not meat rabbits.  I have nothing against meat rabbits. I have raised meat rabbits before.
14:37illegally in the city. But  for us, my wife has two granddaughters. And so knew immediately, and I had three sons that are between 23 and nine. And I knew the younger kids were going to request rabbits. So we built a rabbit tree. It's all enclosed so they can take them out of the cages one at a time, play with them. They all have their own rabbit.
15:05And they're just pets.  We raise Havanna's,  which are super soft. They're black, brown, Holstein. You can get lilac colored Havanna's.  They're very sweet rabbits.  We have people who bring their kids over to play with them. So the rabbitry  is a thing unto itself. And it's turned out to be a very positive, even though it's
15:34not a profit generator.  We have chickens.  We sell chicken eggs. We have ducks. We sell duck eggs. In fact, right now we have sex mature female ducks. We don't keep male ducks.  And we have five more in our basement brooder that are getting ready to come up.  And so we're going to increase  our number of ducks.
16:03And then we have two pilgrim geese that belong to my youngest son. And then he has two brown Chinese geese he is raising this year to show in  4H.  And we have already informed them that they're going to the fur and feather sale. We do not need two breeding pairs of geese. So.
16:30We're going to keep the pilgrim geese because they're his babies. He raised them  all on his own. We never wanted geese. It's one of those great homesteading stories. His mom who lived in the city bought him geese.  And we knew very quickly that the city man was going to discover these two very loud geese living in their backyard.  So.
16:54My wife jokes, she looks out and says, why are you doing? It's like, I'm building the goose coop because they're going to come here. And sure enough, they did. He showed him in the fair last year in the older pair one in the open class. So he's pretty excited about showing his Chinese brown geese. And then in our front pasture, we have a heifer, which we're in the process of breeding. And we have
17:24two steers we bought last fall that'll be processed this fall. One's a red Angus and one's a black Angus American white park mix. The heifer is a black Angus we actually got at a very good price from a failed homestead situation.  Kind of a relative of a friend, they bought her
17:53in partnership with somebody to butcher and the people backed out. She was all alone with their alpacas. She wasn't doing well because cows are social animals.  And so we got her at a very cheap price  and she came and she was a much better quality animal we thought she was going to be. And so we're going to go ahead and breed her.
18:21and we're going to do sex selected semen. So we'll get another heifer. And the idea  is instead of buying steers, we'll start breeding our own.  And  that will help insulate us against the cost. Many of your listeners are probably experiencing what we're experiencing.  Cattle prices are through the roof. I've heard that, yes.
18:50Yeah, it is  absolutely crazy. In fact, there's four age kids around here who can't show cattle this year because they can't afford to buy your basic feeder steer to show.  They're upwards  of over three thousand dollars. Heifers that are in calf  are over four thousand dollars here in the Midwest. So
19:20It really is crazy for us.  The other funny thing about us and cattle  is that  I sold the two steers  accidentally, all of them. We're basically only getting  probably an eighth of our own beef.  And we have an empty freezer because we had bought from a
19:48faculty colleague of mine who had a homestead for many years and they retired to a beautiful large property on a lake near Brainerd, Minnesota. Oh, yep.  And yeah, and they  shut down their homestead.  And so I'm like, well, we'll have our own beef. And then I turned around and like the corn, I sold all the beef except for an eight.
20:14So for the first time in 10 years, we've had to buy commercially produced beef.  Oh no.  Yeah, it's kind of embarrassing when you have tattle grazing on your front pasture  and you're having to go to the store. But  I had broker deals for years for  friends and colleagues  with my sources for homesteader meat.
20:43Now they're my customers, which is really nice.  So. Hey, can I, can I get you to backtrack to your son real quick with the, with the docs and the 4-H stuff? Sure.  You said he's nine?  Yes. Sam is nine.  And then I have George who is 15. And then  Ethan is 23.
21:11He just graduated with his degree in English from Northern Illinois University. And then Lisa, my wife, has a daughter who's 33, who's married and has two daughters. So you're a grandpa. I'm a Martin  because her ex-husband is  still around. And I think people are nervous because Lisa and I  have been together for
21:40five years, we've only been married for two years.  and when the babies were born, I think people are like, oh, how are we going to handle this?  And the little girls have handled it. I have a title, I'm Martin. That's it, which I'm, I'm completely happy with.  So I always joke,  I am the, I am the senior male without portfolios. So I have no responsibilities, but I get to enjoy the whole thing.
22:10I was just going to try to say that in a way that made sense and you did it for me.  Okay. So your, your son who's, who's little, I mean, he's grade school. Yeah.  Um, he, number one, he's going to be so excited when that, when you, when you get your heifer bread and she has that baby.  Cause if he's into ducks, he's probably going to love a calf. Oh yeah. And number two, he was very excited by the lambs this year. Oh yeah. So.
22:39So how long has he been involved in 4-H? This is his first year. Last year we just did  the open youth show  at the Fair one county over  and he kind of got the bug. It's funny because he's not a joiner. He  doesn't do a lot of group activities.
23:04And so he likes 4-H because he can do its own individual project. He'll go to a meeting and then he's just on his own and he enjoys it. Yeah. Cool. So if he's only been in it for a year or he just started this year, whatever you said that. Yes. Have you seen like the benefits for him in it? I mean, is it, I don't know anything about 4-H. I just know that kids get involved in it and they
23:33They raise something  and then they sell it and they have to part ways with the animal they raise and it's really hard at the end, blah, blah. But I keep hearing about all the good things that come from being involved in 4-H. So what have you seen change in him, if anything?  I have seen him grow more confident. He is willing to put himself out there. He's done speeches in front of the meeting.
24:02where he's talked about  his raising of the geese and all of his knowledge of geese. So I've seen him grow in confidence. I've seen him enjoy interacting with other people,  gains in knowledge. And 4-H,  while there's a lot of focus  on agriculture and animals, it's also science.
24:32It's geology, it's cooking, it's sewing, it's video production.  In fact, he  and his stepsister have kind of a band over at their mom, over at his mom's house, and they're actually going to perform in an entertainment show at the fair. Fun. Fun. So I've, I've seen just huge benefits. In fact, moving out here, there has just been
25:01A lot of benefits. My oldest son is autistic. So  he relates really well to animals.  He was away at school for the last couple of years after he moved out here, but he  enjoys the peace and quiet. He enjoys the opportunity to be out in nature more. He  really enjoys the rhythm of farm life. As you wake up, you do chores.
25:30In the evening you do chores  and he really enjoys that a great deal. So  I've seen a lot of those kind of benefits. They grow in confidence.  Sam, the nine year old took the front tires and wheels off of the small garden tractor he had bought himself just a couple of weeks ago because he needed new tires. So he did it this morning.
25:59Nice. We took him off.  We took him to the tire shop.  He's not thrilled about the cost, which is very funny because every person who owns machinery has to face the financial reality of the cost.  he's like, that's going to be a lot of weeding, dad, to pay for those new tires. And I said, well, we'll find you some other projects too. Anything worth having is worth working for, right? Yes.
26:29So just all sorts of benefits, not just through 4-H, but it's always been living, even when we are  urban homesteaders, living a homesteading lifestyle, you just understand more about the world.  To backtrack to animals, we also raise  Dorper South African meat sheep, sheep,  and
26:56One of the lessons we learned this year  is our first year to lamb was our smallest  and we had spent  all of her pregnancy worried she was going to have twins because she was very small. And we're like, please don't let Hanny have twins because it's going to be hard on her.  And she lambed and everything seemed to be OK. She gave us just a
27:25beautiful new lamb, which we've named Helen. We're going to keep her.  And so she got a name and was a great mom.  And then we discovered that there was another lamb stuck in the birth canal. And we called the vet after three days  and we lost Hanny and the, well, the other lamb was already passed away. So Helen became
27:54My wife's new baby,  the vital baby, we joke we're in our  50s and when we got married, we never thought we would be up every two hours feeding an infant together and have that experience. We've had it now.  But  it was really great.  It really kind of cemented my wife's attitude about the farm.  And Helen follows her around.
28:22and calls for she and her half sister are being weaned in our neighbor's horse barn  because they don't keep horses anymore.  And that's just been a cool experience. But everybody learned that when you have livestock, things happen.  And it was sad. Hennie was a super sweet you. And we also had to deal with the fact that right there we lost thirteen hundred dollars.
28:52Because Hanny was 650,  the ewe lamb we lost would have been 650.  And actually we lost more than that because we had about $300 in vet bills. Yeah. So there's lessons to be learned. But then our last ewe who lambed  almost two months after the first two  gave us a beautiful ram lamb, which we're keeping.
29:22named Kiron and  the boys have now understand first thing we do we got to go down cut the umbilical cord,  iodine it, check everybody out. Sam  loves doing that.  Sam is not a big kid but he will pick up the lamb and kind of  he says I gotta he goes mom go away.
29:50We got to do this. I know you don't like this. He talks to the use.  I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We're doing this to your baby, but it's for their own good. So yeah, he always does that.  And  I love Sam. want to meet Sam. He sounds adorable. He has a huge head of red hair too, and we're Irish. So he has very pale skin, red hair. And this year he has finally leaned into his leprechaun heritage.
30:20Good, good. And redheads are feisty and they're smart and they're ingenious and I love them.  you tell him that the lady you talked to today on the podcast episode said that redheads are fantastic. Yes, he is a good one. All of the boys are. The middle one, George,  who's 15,  is  really less into the farming, but
30:49He has a real sense of humanity  and he's a fierce protector of the animals. It's very interesting in that way.  He's not so much,  I love them, I love them, I love them. But when he does chores, he's very technician about it. It's gonna be done right.  And things are gonna be done correctly because their lives matter, which  I'm perfectly fine with.
31:19He's not going to gush all over it. But he did, you know, in 15 year old fashion when the last lamb, the little ram lamb was born, he said, okay, he looked at him and said, I got to admit you're  I love it.  It sounds like you have a fantastic team of folks on your farm, Martin.
31:43I try to keep these episodes to half an hour and we're there. I would love to talk to you for like eight hours because your stories are great, but no one can listen to an eight hour podcast.  Um, where can people find you on understand.  Um,  we have  a Facebook page called Shady Lane Farms.  I have an Instagram account called Rockford Homesteader. They can  look at two  and
32:11Two of my younger friends, I'm also a volunteer firefighter from the fire department because I don't know if you saw any of the videos I posted on the Facebook page, but after that they're like, you got to start doing tech talks. So we're going to start with tech talk soon. Awesome. Good. Let me know when that happens and I will go back and add it to the show notes. Thank you so much. This was a blast.
32:37Thank you so much for your time.  I  so appreciate it when you people take time out of your busy lives to talk to me for half an hour. You have  no idea how much I appreciate it.  as always, you can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com. And Martin, I hope you have a great rest of your day. You too. Thank you. Thank you.