Authentic Food

Today I'm talking with Janna at Authentic Food. You can follow on Instagram as well.

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00:00
You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters, and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis.  A Tiny Homestead podcast is sponsored by Homegrown Collective, a free-to-use farm-to-table platform emphasizing local connections with ability to sell online, buy, sell, trade in local garden groups, and help us grow a new food system.  You can find them at homegrowncollective.org. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe.

00:29
Share it with a friend or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Janna at Authentic Food. Good afternoon, Janna. How are you? I'm phenomenal. How are you doing, Mary?  I'm fantastic. I love the word phenomenal.  I love it. No one ever uses it. Thank you for using that word.  Where are you? Where are you located?  Actually, right now I am in Miami, Florida,  but I'm rarely here because I'm always traveling. I'm usually in and out for a day or two and then  on the road.

00:59
Oh, okay. Is  Miami nice today? Yes, of course. It's beautiful. It's sunny and warm  and yeah, we're going into full on summer here. Yeah, we are, we are wintery today in Minnesota, but starting tomorrow, it's supposed to start warming up and stay warming up. So I'm very excited for this. Oh, good. Good, good, good. And my daughter actually lives in St. Petersburg, Florida. So.

01:28
Oh, lovely. So hopefully get to visit during those  cold months. Not yet, but it's sort of been it's been floated. We haven't decided yet when we're going to go. So.  All right. OK, so tell me about yourself and authentic food.  So authentic food dot com has been brewing for about a decade.  It has lived inside me and it's finally the.

01:57
It's such a good feeling to get it out.  So I was traveling for work  all over the world  and sometimes I would be in a country for maybe a day or two.  And I've always loved food. I'm also an Italian citizen. So, you know, for me, food is kind of religion. And  I would always want to have some kind of dish that I could only get in a certain place.  And

02:26
Like even if I was in Denver, I'd want a Denver omelet or I was in Australia. I wanted to try kangaroo, something that was very like regionally specific or culturally specific.  And I kept, when I would be in a country, I would ask people, what, what's the most authentic dish here? Or I can't get anywhere else. And,  um, the conversations were just really fascinating to me. And it was like, I couldn't get a straight answer. And then some people would send me places and I would feel like.

02:55
Oh, I could have gotten this, you know, in Florida.  And so  then I would start asking  the concierge at the hotel, if they would eat there, they would send me to these places and, and they would say, well, no, I don't really eat there. And I'm like, well, where would you eat?  And then I got even more intuitive and I would ask them, well, would your mom eat there?  And it was like the deeper I was getting in the conversation.

03:23
the more authenticity I felt like I was getting for that kind of local flavor.  And I  really started to wonder how are people coming up with this idea of authenticity surrounding food and restaurants? And so much so that  I went back to college and I got a PhD so that I could research it. I did a five-year PhD at University of Florida.

03:48
What was the PhD in? was the sociology? So I did the sociology  of food and specifically how society creates the idea of authenticity in regard to  Super cool. Yeah. I, yeah,  I mean, starting a PhD in my forties, everyone thought I was nuts.  Um,  but here I am. I graduated almost a year ago now  and

04:18
During that time,  I  hadn't been in academia in a while. So I realized that a lot of the stuff that I was writing was sitting behind these paywalls and these  academic journals. And I wanted people to have access to the discussions that I was having, the interviews I was doing. so  I at some point bought authenticfood.com domain and it sat. And then last fall, this past November,

04:45
My daughters are like, mom, you need to do something with appendixv.com. And I thought that it would be a little blog that maybe I did once a month or something, but it has really grown into something more. And I love these dialogues with people about authenticity because as a sociologist, I study how society creates this narrative.

05:12
And for me, I learned that it was through a very like socially constructed idea as an individual. So food is very universal, but we each have these very personal experiences with food.  And it was driving me crazy because I would see like chefs or writers write these articles saying, oh, authenticity doesn't exist. Well, after studying it for almost a decade and getting a PhD in it, I'm here to say it does.

05:43
Yeah,  I would say you are the person to know that answer.  I did not go to college.  I could not face the idea of sitting in a room  for hours at a time listening to someone lecture. I was a really good student in high school, but I knew that I didn't have what it took to sit in a big room listening to someone lecture, so I did not do that.

06:08
And so I don't know much about the structure of college education. PhD is the one where you have to do a thesis, is that right?  It depends on the PhD program. For my program, it's a five-year program with a master's built into it. So you have to get a master's and do a master's thesis. And then after that, you spend the next three years  doing your dissertation work, all your research.

06:36
For me, I'm a qualitative researcher, so everything that I do  is a narrative. I  obviously enumerate, I don't do anything that's numerical where I gather data, but I did all interviews.  And so then the next three years I spent interviewing  and  researching,  and then I wrote my dissertation, which is I think a little over 200 pages. And  which is interesting because I'm not a writer.

07:04
You are now, honey.  Well, it seems that I am. And like I said, the authenticfood.com has kind of evolved and we've ended up hiring writers, we've hired photographers, we've done some amazing interviews.  I can't believe how much  interest it's received and I feel really lucky because  maybe you've experienced this, but even when you're passionate about something or you feel strongly about something,

07:33
That doesn't mean everyone else is going to, right? So putting it out there, you know, and being vulnerable and saying, hey, this is where I'm at and then have people meet me there was, it was very humbling and  I'm  very, very thankful. So  I do relate when I started this podcast, which is my thing, my passion, my thing.  I really didn't think that it would do anything. I didn't think anyone would want to talk to me. I thought they would think that I was asking weird questions and it would just die.

08:03
And I've been doing it for a little over a year and a half now and I love it. And I fall in love with every person that comes and talks to me because they're so  gracious and helpful and kind and they were willing to come talk to me, you know? Yeah, definitely. mean, definitely when you give someone your time, it's just the best gift ever. And  I really appreciate you  having me on today. It's so fun, Jana.

08:29
I mean, you know, you do interviews. You know how much fun it is to ask a question and get an answer you didn't expect  or a vulnerable story that you didn't know you were gonna hear.  It just changes something in the way your brain works, I think. Definitely. I live for the interview. I live for the interview. The writing, the other stuff, I'm like,  eh.  Yeah.  Okay. So what I want to add to your story about food authenticity.

08:59
is I grew up on the East Coast. I grew up in the state of Maine  and I moved to Minnesota when I was like 22 years old, I think. I'm 55 now.  And I don't know if you've ever been to Maine, but you are in Florida. You're East Coast, but you're Southern East Coast. And so you have access to seafood, I would guess, just like I did growing up. Yes. Yes. Yes, of course. Yes.  It's really hard to move from a state where you can have

09:29
really good off the boat seafood to a state where you don't trust buying seafood because  it may kill you, number one, because it may not be good because people don't know how to take care of seafood.  And number two, it's never going to be the same because it's not a day  old. It wasn't caught yesterday, if that makes sense. So when I moved here,

09:55
I learned about Minnesota food and I'm trying really hard not to be a snot about this because I love Minnesota. I've been here a long time.  But I tried  wild rice soup at a restaurant like a year after I moved here.  I'd never had it before. It's not something we ate in Maine.  And it was fantastic and I learned how to make it.

10:22
And I finally got at the point where I feel like I can serve it to diet in the wool, born and bred Minnesotans. And they think that I make it really well. Oh, that's lovely. I love that.  So  my concept of authentic food is something that is common to the region that you're in,  people grow up eating, that grandma or great grandma made, if that makes sense.

10:48
Yeah, definitely. And I think a lot of people go to that place when I interview them and we talk about what authentic food means to them. A lot of people go to that regionality. They go to these geographic locations. I mean, that's not unusual. And for you, it sounds like your experiences  near the water and having access to fresh seafood. And it's funny you say that because my youngest daughter moved to Denver.

11:17
And she was born in Florida and grew up in Florida. And she was like, Mom,  I don't eat any seafood out here. So when she comes home, she wants shrimp and all those same things. So it's fascinating that you're saying this, but  it's interesting too how we kind of just take that for granted. Right?  We don't think about what we have access to until it's gone.

11:45
We also give a lot of power to restaurant to determine who,  how we're going to understand authenticity too. Right? Like you walk into a restaurant that says authentic Maine lobster in, I  don't know, Idaho. Right. And you just think, well, if you've never been to Maine and you have a lobster there, you think this is what fresh lobsters like. No.

12:12
So  I think the idea of authenticity  and  how that gets transformed into our food systems  and our food ways is, it's very personal, I think for everyone. I think that's why too, I want an authentic food.com to be a platform for people to tell their stories at that very individual level.  And I love that you have

12:41
made this dish your own and now you feel like you can make it and people will feel like they're having this authentic experience in Minnesota. even though I had never even heard of chicken wild rice soup until I was 23 years old. Right. Yeah. And I don't know if you've ever had it, but it's a very creamy, hearty dish for like January when it's minus 20 outside. Oh, no, it sounds amazing.

13:09
I'd love to talk to you more about it, honestly, because I don't think we've done any recipes that are specific to Minnesota, so this is really fascinating. I I've never been there.  Oh, well, number one, don't ever call a casserole a casserole in Minnesota because it is not called a casserole. It's called a hot dish. A hot dish. Okay, this is good. Yeah, I kept saying casserole because back home, it's casserole.

13:35
And people were like, it's not a casserole, it's a hot dish. And I'm like, oh my God, it's food in a dish. Eat it. Don't  talk to me about what it's called.  And then I started to realize that every region has its nickname for the food.  very  true.  And there's this  thing, and I can't think of the name of it right now, but basically it's a pickled fish  that you can eat. I can't think of name of it.

14:04
Of course I can't because I can't stand it. I don't ever want to try it. I've smelled it. I don't want to eat it.  And it's a thing in Minnesota and you either love it or you hate it.  What else is in Minnesota that I didn't know about?

14:21
I don't know, there's like three or four very specific things and I've mentioned three, think,  but I do know that when I go home to visit my parents in Maine, the first thing I want to eat as a lunch or a dinner is a lobster roll because  I can't get one here that is actually what I know to be a lobster roll.  And the other thing that I could not get here for a long time was a whoopie pie.

14:50
And I don't know if you know what a whoopie pie is. It's a very cakey. I I do because my mother is from Pennsylvania. Yeah. It's a very cakey cookie. And you have two cookies and in between the two cookies sandwiched in between is like this buttercream, marshmallow-y frosting kind of thing. And they are delicious and they have this mouth feel that is like heaven. And I really missed whoopie pies. And then about 20 years ago,

15:19
I discovered a place down the road from us. It  was an apple barn to start with. They had an orchard and they sold apples, but then they expanded it and they have candy and stuff. They sell puzzles. They have more puzzles in one place than I've ever seen. They had whoopie pies in their cooler.  I looked at the wrapper and it was from the place that makes them in Maine that I had grown up getting them from.

15:47
I almost dropped to my knees and thank God for the whoopie pie I bought from them.  So it's little things like that too that are  your food identity, think.  Yeah, definitely.  I think a lot of people  identify with the idea of authenticity because they do feel, and I think you mentioned earlier in the conversation about those traditions.

16:17
Yeah.  And so tradition, that word tradition gets brought up a lot when I'm interviewing people about authentic food  and how we understand what traditions are. There is some parallel there.  But yeah, we have these very  traditional ideas and pass down generational  recipes. And  the biggest thing I've found about authentic food

16:46
that the majority of people say is there's always some kind of experience that goes along with it, right? Like they'll talk about my grandmother in the kitchen  making, you know,  X  or my dad on the grill  or my aunt's,  you know, snapping peas in the kitchen, you know, these, experiences or,  you know,  um,  especially over holidays  or

17:15
Just time together, which  is a very interesting  concept in the relationship to  authenticity.  I mean, without getting too detailed into my research and being too boring with all my sociological jargon.  can, you can, can step in there. It's okay. Yeah. Um,  we,  when I was doing a research for my master's work, I actually did,  um,

17:44
a study in Istanbul, Turkey. And I interviewed a bunch of restaurant owners and it's a type of restaurant that has existed since the Byzantine era. So this type of restaurant has existed all through the Ottoman Empire and these types of restaurants still exist in Istanbul today. But what's so fascinating about it was people still get so uptight about

18:12
different ones being authentic or not.  And I think that's why I wanted to study it because this restaurant started as a men's only restaurant  in the Byzantine era. And now in modern Istanbul, women own these types of restaurants. So  I was trying to figure out how are they still seeing authenticity in the restaurant if it has evolved so much.  And the one thing that I found from my research was that

18:41
When I talked to the restaurant owners, they kept  bringing up these ideas that are part of this idea of third place.  And I don't know if you are familiar with this, but  the sociologists had come up with this idea that  we gravitate to these spaces that aren't our home, they aren't our work, but it's like a third place, right? So like,  would say, and I hope this doesn't date me too much, the...

19:10
The idea I think of is like  the show Cheers. When,  yeah, you know,  the people would walk in and like the one guy would walk in and everyone would say his name  and you know, it just felt familiar.  And that was the kind of space that they felt was creating authenticity  and that relationship between creating this space and

19:39
Authenticity was really fascinating. I don't think anyone at that point had really connected that dot in my field.  And so that was, I was really excited to find that. And then it kind of crossed over into other things I noticed too. And  I do know Starbucks kind of uses that model of third place, right? When you go in, they want to put your name on the cup. They want you to have this familiarity.  I think their business model has evolved.

20:07
a bit since it first opened.  yeah,  I,  learning all these ways that society was creating this narrative authenticity was just fascinating to me. And I don't think that it's just this very static dichotomous, yes, this is authentic or no, this isn't authentic. I think you really have to approach authenticity in food or food ways as a fluid concept.

20:33
and look how it's evolving and changing as society changes. Yeah, I feel like it's like the saying about beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think authenticity is in the eye of the beholder too. Oh, I totally agree with that. Definitely. Definitely. You said Starbucks, which leads me to Caribou because I like both. I don't care. I like somebody who's going to feed me sugar in a cup. I'm good with that.

21:00
It's so funny, we got a dog when we moved to our place four and a half years ago, a puppy. And she does not like people. Like she loves us, she loves her pack, but she's really barky around strangers. So if we take her in the vehicle with us anywhere and we pull through a drive-through for say a mocha from Starbucks or Caribou, she just barks because she can see the people in the window and she doesn't know them, so they're strangers.

21:27
And I was so excited to get a puppy because I was like, oh, we can get her a pup cup when we occasionally stop for coffee or they'll give her a treat or whatever.  No, she wants nothing to do with those things. And I was like, well, I guess that marketing tactic was lost on my dog. Yeah.  Sounds like  it. Yeah. So it's really funny how  restaurants, and I don't mean mom and pop,  authentic, you know.

21:55
Like not Olive Garden, but a real Italian restaurant. All the chain places tend to do all these little gimmicky things to get you to come back because it feels like they know you, but they don't know you. Whereas if you go to the same mom and pop restaurant that is not a chain over the years, at least four or five times a year, you know.

22:20
the owners probably know you, they probably recognize you when you walk in and they probably know your favorite food.  And I feel like there's real authenticity there because you are creating a relationship with the business owner. This is very true. Like I said earlier, you know, a lot of times when I talk to people about authenticity, there is that experience built into it.

22:44
And within that experience, you're right. There is a relationship that builds.  yeah, I mean, that cannot be duplicated. And whether it's your, you know, not even talking about food, but your own authenticity or your own authentic self, once you bring that to food, that's going to play out in the relationship. So I totally agree with what you're saying.

23:11
Like I said, I'm obsessed with this idea and so fascinated with these conversations. Yeah, everything that you are saying in response to what I'm saying just proves that I haven't been crazy all these years about what food does for people.  I was kind of obsessed with why everyone is so focused on food at get togethers because

23:36
When I would want to get together with a friend, I would want to just get a coffee or a tea and just talk. lots of people want to have a meal and talk.  And I'm not, that's not my thing.  And I didn't understand it. And then  we had people over for dinner a couple of times when we first moved here, because we actually have a kitchen where we can sit in the kitchen at a kitchen table and have dinner across from each other.  And

24:05
I went all out because I had a big pretty kitchen to cook in and I love to cook and I was like, I am going to make the best things ever in this kitchen. And we had friends over and we sat down to eat and we had really nice conversation. had really good food and there is nothing like being complimented on the food that you cooked for anyone who doesn't cook. Learn to cook. It's worth it just for the compliments. And I really, for the first time,

24:33
understood why food is a bonding agent, because I really felt like good things happened over that meal in the conversation. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think it's been, you know, proven that food is a great equalizer.  And it really transcends those social boundaries, right? Like, maybe we don't have the same culture, the same beliefs, the same religion, but we all have to eat.  Yeah.

25:03
Right. We cannot survive without food and water. All the other things are peripheral.  And so  it really has become an equalizer. And once you bring that authenticity into it,  it just makes that connection so much deeper. And  we're at like 20, almost 25 minutes. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but I have a question.  When I saw the name of

25:32
of your website,  I wasn't sure that you were talking about authentic in the way that you have been talking about it  or in the way of how people say whole foods,  produce from the garden or  beef that you met the cow and you know the butcher and it comes home wrapped and goes in your freezer. And to me, that's how I perceived authentic food when I saw the name.

25:59
This that you're talking about is so much more interesting than how I was perceiving the name.  Oh, well, good. I'm glad because I think, mean,  of course, using something as  prolific as authentic because it has been out there. And like I said, there are many pieces written about authenticity and  how it doesn't really exist and all that.  I think I really just wanted to

26:27
look at it from a different lens, a sociological lens, of course.  hopefully people that will translate as we  grow  and the dialogues become  more and more  and we  basically accumulate more and more amazing stories. Yeah.  how much time you got, Jana? Because I got 10 more minutes.

26:55
No, I'm fine until I have  a meeting at three, so I'm good. Okay, cool.  So this is going to sound really dumb because I don't quite know how all of this works with getting a master's in something. But  what is the point of what you're doing? Are you trying to  teach people about  authenticity in food?  What is your end game with this?

27:24
I don't know that I have a specific end game. think for me,  know, every day, whether you realize it or not,  you are interacting with something that probably says authentic on it regarding food.  If you go to the grocery store,  you can see a label that'll say authentic and pick it up and you don't even realize that you're engaging with it. I mean, there's  one spring water bottle,  I think,

27:54
comes in a green bottle and it says authentic on it. Yeah. And then how many times do you walk into a restaurant  and authentic is on the outside of the restaurant or on their website  or  maybe the reviews  on, you know, Yelp or Google, someone says, don't go to this restaurant. It's not authentic.  I think for me, I want people to question that.

28:22
Right? We don't just have to just assume that someone else has this power of deciding what is authentic or what isn't authentic.  And we really need to  think about  what, how we interact with food and why it matters. Right? I mean, especially in a time when we see our food systems just going through a lot of changes and the quality of our food  deteriorating.

28:51
Um, I think it's important to have this dialogue about what authentic food looks like and how we're creating it and who we are giving power to create it. And I think that's that ultimately was why I wanted to be able to tell these stories. And I mean, we tell all kinds of stories, um, from Michelin star restaurants to, you know, somebody selling boiled peanuts on the side of the road that no one's ever heard of, you know? Yeah. Um,

29:21
So I think I wanted to preserve some of these very rich stories that I feel like are kind of  going away. And I don't know there's an end game.  I don't know. We do have a mini documentary series coming out as well. So  I'm really excited about that. yeah.

29:46
I don't know. It's just something I've been very passionate about for a very long time.  And it's just nice to  get it out. Okay.  And I wasn't implying there had to be an end game. I was just trying to figure out how this all falls together.  The other thing that I find interesting is people are always, you said Michelin star rated  restaurants.  People are always like, oh my God, they're a five star Michelin restaurant. We have to go there.

30:17
Um, let me tell you a story. I went to a very, very fancy restaurant in Minneapolis back when I was divorced and starting to date again. And it was a very pretty restaurant. Like I walked in and I was just blown away to how beautiful it was visually. the food was okay. It wasn't anything to write home about. And I love food. I am not, I'm not weird about food.

30:44
the best thing that they made there was stuffed mushrooms.  The whole menu, I love these stuffed mushrooms.  And I had to learn how to replicate it. So I looked up a stuffed mushroom recipe and  I knew what was in the  dish I had ordered.  And I looked up the recipe, I was like, I can do that. And I made it and it was basically the same only better because I put the things I like in it.

31:10
So just because you're a Michelin star rated restaurant, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are perfection on a plate. It means that the people who decide those things decided that they liked it. Oh yeah, definitely. Definitely. I mean, and I think that kind of goes back to how we give power to people and what, you know, what decides  what's  a Michelin  star restaurant or what's authentic or, you know,

31:40
Um, I mean, I definitely have my own opinions about Michelin star. Um, and I know many people do. Um, it's not like you can't go to Michelin star restaurant, um, and not have a, and have a bad experience. happens and not be impressed. Um, so yeah, I, yeah. It's food is so subjective.

32:09
And I think that's too why I come from it with this very like  symbolic interactionist type  theory  where you're  interacting with the food through the ways that you've experienced life.  And yeah, so every time you sit at a table, sure, your experience at that restaurant might've been one of,  but another person might be like, wow, this is the best meal I've ever had.

32:38
It's amazing. So  again, it's why I want to have this dialogue about food and how it's so subjective and why authenticity exists.  And it's just an idea that's  very subjective. And if you come with it, come at the idea or the narrative with this, it needs to be this, or it can only be this.  Of course you're going to think it doesn't exist because

33:06
that very dichotomous attitude is going to put it in a box, which a lot of people, you know, a lot of people like that. I mean, they like to have things very  defined. They find comfort in that. Yeah, categorized is the word I would use.  It's amazing that we don't fight over food more than we do as human beings. You would think with all the different people's tastes and

33:36
and appreciations for the different foods and different flavors and different textures, we would actually have fist fights about our opinions about food. Yeah,  I agree. You would think that especially when we have  so much to say about so many other subjects in society. Yeah, it's amazing that we don't come to blows.  I have one more thing that I want to say and then I will cut you loose because you need to get ready for your next thing and so do I.

34:04
One of the things that I really, really miss about where I grew up is that Maine is a tourist state  and the people who live there make their money being a tourist state. And there are many, many,  many small mom and pop restaurants that are fabulous. And Minnesota is not a tourist state, so we don't have that kind of thing here. That's the thing I miss the most, I think, about having moved from there to here.

34:32
Yeah, no, I mean, I would love to talk about food in Minnesota. I think it'd be great. As someone that's never been there, I'm really fascinated by our conversation. I feel like I could do a whole another conversation about it. And it's like I said, it's one of the reasons that drew me to the idea of authentic food because I want to have these very like, real experiences that can't be duplicated.

35:02
Yeah, maybe you should start a podcast, go with your blog and then I can come back and talk to you about the food experience in Maine and the food experience in Minnesota. Well,  you know what, you're about the  20th person that's told me that and I  will definitely reach out if I need some blog, some podcast tips because I wouldn't even know where to start on that one. Honestly, it's easier than you think. Believe me, I wouldn't be doing it if it was difficult.  But.

35:31
But yeah, it's been, it's been a 30 year stretch for me to get used to living in a different state regarding food. And if you had told me when I got yanked, kicking and screaming to Minnesota when I was 21 or 22, that it would be a food thing that would still hang me up this, this many years later, I would have laughed. But it is, there are things that I just accept that I don't get to have unless I go home to visit.

36:01
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I get that and you find comfort in that I'm sure. Yes. Oh, yes when I roll it across the border into Maine, I'm like, yes in the land of my food dreams. I'm in it. Yay.  I love that for you.  Yep, and when we get back here also, there are foods that I have  grown to love in Minnesota too. So I have the best of both worlds. It's great.  Awesome. I love them. Mm-hmm.

36:28
All right, Janna, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it. Of course. Well, thanks for the invite.  And  I hope to get to Minnesota soon. It sounds amazing.  You should come in like June or September because it's not so hot and it's not quite so buggy. So those are the two months you want to come. OK,  noted. All right. Thank you. Have a good afternoon. You too. Thanks so much.