Blue Star Farm

Today I'm talking with Paul at Blue Star Farm.

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00:00
This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Paul at Blue Star Farm. Good morning, Paul. How are you? I am doing very well. Thank you. Good. So tell me about yourself and how this all got started because you have a lot of things that you guys do at the farm.

00:30
Well, I purchased this property back in 2016. I had been farming full-time and, oh gosh, I guess I started in 1993, actually. I was in a dairy business for a number of years and moved on to a couple other career paths for a while. And then I purchased this property and decided it'd be fun to play around with an apple orchard. I also grow some other vegetables, pumpkins, popcorn.

01:00
gourds and do a little bit of hay as well. So this is a part-time venture. I have a full-time day job as well at the moment. But most recently, I opened up a storefront where currently I make sweet cider and I'm in the process of getting licensed to make hard cider. Hard cider is the best. It doesn't give me a headache. Most beer gives me a headache, but hard cider does not. Okay.

01:29
So why? Why did you get into this? Well, it started off as kind of a little bit of a hobby, the hard center in particular. And there seems to be a market for it and I thought it would be a nice project to work on. I am not too far away, well a few years probably, from not having to have to have that day job.

01:59
can't sit still very long so I figured I'd create some kind of business keep me occupied and something that would be fun and make them hard cider and having people enjoy it is it's a good time for me for sure. Absolutely. So you're in Sharon Springs New York are you I don't want to offend you but I'm gonna ask are you near the Beekman boys guys?

02:26
I am not too far away. The farm that they purchased is about two miles south of the village of Sharon Springs here. Their flagship store is located in the downtown portion of our little village here and that is less than a mile from where I'm setting right now. And actually the building that I recently acquired where I'm starting my cider operation, Beekman 1802, used that as a warehouse for their product for a number of years.

02:56
So, thank you very much.

03:00
Very nice. The reason I said I don't want to offend you is because I've heard two sides of a coin about them. That they came in and made Sharon Springs not a small town anymore and made people mad. And the other side of the coin is that they came in and got Sharon Springs on the map. So I don't know which side of the coin you're on.

03:22
Well, honestly, Sharon Springs had been on a map for a number of years as a tourist destination for the mineral baths. It was in direct competition with Saratoga Springs, New York. And unfortunately, Saratoga had a little bit more going for it. They kind of won that battle, I guess you could say. But eventually, prior to Beekman 1802 coming to life here in the village,

03:50
There had been a resurgence, our former mayor, he and his husband had opened up several businesses in this area and they had, and actually I think their influence is why some others had relocated here, such as the folks that took over the Beekman farm, so it's been a long, slow process.

04:15
Okay.

04:18
Yes, and we haven't been home to Maine in a while. My parents live in Maine and I'm in Minnesota. So when we drive back, I don't fly. So we always do a road trip. So when we go through New York, I always see the sign for Sharon Springs on the highway that we're on. And I'm like, we should go to Sharon Springs someday. And my husband's like, the only reason you wanna go to Sharon Springs is to go to the Beekman store. And I'm like, well, yeah.

04:48
And we haven't done it yet, but someday maybe we'll do it

04:54
Okay, I do know they've got limited hours, so I think they're not open. They used to be open seven days a week there. I believe they're only open Friday through Sunday. I can't say for a fact, but you'd have to check their website.

05:10
Yes, and I don't have any plans to do a road trip in the next couple of years. So we're good for now. But it's just, it's funny because when I saw Sharon Springs, I was like, I wonder if that's the Sharon Springs. And so it is. Okay, so, so you're doing this as your retirement plan, basically, from the sounds of it. So you're not going to retire, you're going to keep working.

05:36
That is correct.

05:40
Yeah, I think that's the case for a lot of us who are over 50 at this point. I don't think any of us who are over 50 are like, you know, retirement sounds great. I don't think retirement sounds great. I think that I want to be doing a podcast. I want my husband to keep doing what he loves to do, which is growing a farm to market garden and raising chickens and trying to keep our barn cats from making more barn cats and you know, that kind of stuff, because I feel like

06:10
Anyone over 50 was raised in a time frame where we were taught that we can do anything we want to do.

06:19
I would have to agree. It's one of those things where I've always, like I said, I've always been active. I've got all kinds of hobbies, actually. But being someone who started on the farm when I was in high school working for a neighbor and had some cousins, my father grew up on a farm. I did not. But it's one of those things. It was of great interest to me. And I just, I find it a...

06:46
As much physical work as it is, I find it somewhat relaxing. I know that sounds a little bit strange, but I just like being busy.

06:56
Yeah, and it keeps you active, which means that your body doesn't start to give up on you. That's a big part of it. I think, you know, as someone in the upper end of the 50s here, I find that if I sit still too long, things start stiffening up and that's just not a good feeling. So I'm going to keep moving as long as I can.

07:18
Yes, it downright sucks to wake up in the morning and be like, did I even get any rest? I don't feel like I slept because you know, you wake up and you're still.

07:29
Exactly. Yeah. So I saw on your Facebook page that you have goats. You still have goats?

07:40
Yeah, I've got two little goats right now. We started off with three, unfortunately, one did not survive last winter. But yeah, we had Larry, Curly and Moe. Moe was the unfortunate one. Shortly after he came to the farm here, he had an infected tooth that impacted the way he was able to chew after the fact, and he wasn't able to chew his cud properly. And he just could not gain weight.

08:08
It was not a good situation for the poor little guy. But the other two, they are out in their little pen there. Their little pastor just having a grand old time today, sitting there in the sun, doing what little goats do, jumping up on rocks and climbing trees. They're trying to climb trees. Anywhere to get a better vantage point is where they're headed. So are they just entertainment, or do they have a job?

08:34
Their job is to entertain me and they are quite efficient with that. I sit there and giggle at the silly things they do all day long. Nothing like watching the goats when they're running around. They got that little hype to them sometimes. They are very, very entertaining in my mind. And I'm not really much on reincarnation and all that, but if it ever does come to that, I want to come back as a little goat because they always seem to be having a really good time.

09:02
I want to come back as a pampered house cat. That's what I want to come back as. I have worked a lot. I've raised four kids. I have done all kinds of things. And I think it would be lovely to just have humans who fed me and petted me and let me sleep whenever I wanted to. I think that would be a great job.

09:23
Yeah, I think that's probably not a bad thing.

09:33
Mm-hmm. So, I don't know what to ask you. I'm stumped for the moment. So what's the purpose of the farm? Is it just that you needed a hobby that's going to become your retirement business? Or is it that you felt called to have a farm? Or what?

10:00
Well, as I said, I had been farming full time for a number of years. I always enjoyed it. And when we purchased this property, I thought it would be an ideal location. I had to start a little apple orchard and do a little bit of, you know, fresh vegetables and that type of stuff. Again, it was a...

10:22
One of those things where I know I want to stay busy and I enjoy that type of work. And it kind of de-stresses me from the day job on occasion. So, yeah, that was kind of the intent here. And actually when I started this place, I was working at a college and I had the summers off and it's like, well, I'll have all kinds of free time to work on the farm. So of course that, that changed a little bit, made a career change. And I.

10:51
still manage to do it nights and weekends. And again, it helps relieve my personal stress. And, you know, if I can add a little bit to the community here, that's all part of it as well. Kind of a farm area that we're in and we have a fair amount of tourist trade. We're not too far from Cooperstown, New York, which is a big draw for visitors. My farm is located right on the US Route 20, which has got a scenic highway designation here in New York.

11:20
So we've got a lot of traffic here it seems and I thought it would be kind of nice to bring a little bit more to the village of Sharon Springs. The farm is actually located right on the edge of the village. Part of our property is within the village limits. So we live here, try to make it a little bit nicer.

11:41
Okay, since you said part of the farm is within village limits, is village limits the same thing as city limits? Because we moved, we moved so we got out of city limits four years ago because city limits limited us on what we could do. So do does the part of the property that's within the village limits have different rules than the part that isn't?

12:07
There are some different rules, but it depends on how much acreage total parcel is. And our rules are probably not too different than some other larger cities, I guess. They don't want you to have ten roosters in the quarter acre lot somewhere and disrupt folks. But because of the size of our property there, we're kind of exempt from that because we got enough room and space between us and the neighbors.

12:37
So there are some things that would limit certain activities in the village, but it hasn't really been anything detrimental to what I'm up to here. It hasn't been an issue. And again, being a small village, there's less than 500 people that live here. We really don't have the number of rules and regulations you might find in a larger municipality.

13:05
Yeah, the town that we lived in, I think when we moved four years ago, it was like a little over 6,000 people. And we were not supposed to have chickens, really. And we basically knew our neighbors and said, we're getting four chickens because it was back during the bird flu thing years ago. And I had four kids at the time, and they liked cookies and they liked cakes as treats.

13:32
And I didn't want to pay what the grocery stores were asking for for a dozen eggs. So I was like, guys, if we share some of our eggs with you, is it okay if we get chickens? And every neighbor was like, absolutely. And you don't even have to share eggs with us, just get chickens. So, so in our town, it was a complaint based system. If you did something and everybody was okay with it, it was fine. But if somebody complained, then you had to get rid of the thing that was causing the problem. That was how that worked.

14:05
That's pretty much the way it is here even though we do have some regulations on the books. Like I say you're not supposed to have more than so many chickens and no roosters in the village and so on and so forth. Unless someone's complaining it's not really that big of a deal. This is a pretty rural area here so most people are not really all that upset by a rooster in somebody's backyard.

14:34
being such a small village, you kind of know just about everybody here anyhow, so it's pretty easy to talk to the neighbor if it's a problem. Things will get resolved that way.

14:47
Yeah, a village to me feels like it would be much more neighborly than a city. And that may not be true. There may be villages in the United States where the neighbors don't actually know each other. I don't know. But when I hear a village, I think friendly, small community. When I hear city, I think, oh, a bunch of people living in the same area who don't know each other.

15:11
And that's probably true. I, though I must admit, I've been here for eight years and I certainly don't know everyone here. But again, it's, it's a little bit more laid back. There's not quite as much intensity here in our village. So I think most people, because of the rural environment that we're in, are more accustomed to that type of stuff. So they don't really get as excited over things as some of the...

15:41
larger places where people don't know each other at all, really. So just a personal thought there. Yeah. Where there's not as much compassion and consideration for the fellow man, I think. But, uh, but I don't really want to go further down that road. Things are already a little tense in the world this week and probably until the end of next week. So, so we're going to keep it real light and fluffy bunny today. Um,

16:11
So do you have kids? Grown kids?

16:16
Yes, I have three adult children. The youngest is 28 now. They're all off and about in various parts of New York. And my daughter, she ended up in Durham, North Carolina. Okay, so did they come back to the farm and just they're like, this is awesome, Dad, great, nice to see you. I'm going to visit and then go or they, do they get hands on with you at the farm?

16:46
Well, my two older children were actually quite involved when I had the dairy. So they were in the barn doing the barn chores, feeding calves, and cleaning and such. So they're quite accustomed to that type of work. But basically now they'll come visit and hang out a little bit. But they're not too much into the farm work anymore, that's for sure. And again, with my daughter being so far away, it's just a...

17:15
a quick visit in the summer or a week or so and then it's back to other things. So, and with my boys, they both live within an hour for me and again, full-time jobs, live in their own lives and I'll come back and visit for a little bit. But now they'll just hang out and then they go back to doing their own thing. Okay. So is it just you doing all the work on your farm or do you have people that help out?

17:45
It is just me, 99% of the time. I do have a couple of friends that show up on occasion. And actually I have a rental property here and I had some former tenants that were very interested in doing a little bit of farming. They've since bought their own property and they're starting their own garden and raising chickens and ducks on their own. And it's fantastic to see them taking off.

18:14
what they did when they were here. So it's kind of neat. And then by one 10th, she'll show up once in a while. She was here over the weekend helping me press cider just because she enjoys it. So yeah, it's kind of neat.

18:30
You were an inspiration to them. That's awesome. Okay, so tell me about the cider situation. I haven't talked about, I haven't talked with anybody about cider before. So tell me the process of going from apple to cider and then going from cider to hard cider. Well, the process from apples to cider is basically the picked fruit gets ground up, reduced in size a little bit, and then you run it through a cider press and just extract the juice.

18:59
It's about as simple as it can get really. In New York it is required that it is treated for E. coli and cryptocytogenesis so you have to pasteurize your juice in some form. I use a UV light system on mine. I just got into the sweet cider business this fall, just a week ago actually. I finally got all the permitting required by the standing New York here.

19:28
But the process to turn it into hardy cider is pretty simple. You just set it in the corner of the room there in a sealed container and let it go. Some people will add some yeast. Typically, I will do that to help it along in the fermentation process. But it's really quite a simple process.

19:54
Okay, so when you say set it in a corner of the room and let it do its thing, is that in like a glass, I don't know what they're called, carboy or something like that, or is it in just the plastic jugs?

20:09
I've used oak barrels, I've used plastic buckets, I don't have any carboys, I know some folks that have used them before and they seem to work pretty well. Yeah, any container you can see all out there is suitable for making cider. I've done small batches in like a gallon jug, I've been airlocked on that and that worked pretty well when I was first playing around with it. So yeah, it's a pretty simple process.

20:38
The key to it is make sure you use good fruit and go from there.

20:46
Okay, and when you had to get your, I don't know, permission from the state of New York to do the hard cider, is it like a liquor license or what is involved?

21:01
Yes, it is a liquor manufacturer's license. And what you need to do first is the federal government, the tax and trade bureau of the ATSF, you have to put it in an application there for the type of operation you want to have. And CIDR falls under the winery classification. So.

21:22
That process took me a little over three months to get approval. And right now I am in the application stages with the state of New York gathering up all the documents I need. And, uh, I will be going through what they call a far from cidery license here. And that process could take three, six months, possibly a little bit longer, depending on if they need any additional information with my application. Kind of a long process, unfortunately sometimes. But, uh,

21:53
We'll, uh, we'll just sit back and wait for it to happen.

21:59
Okay, so here's what I'm really curious about. When you decided you wanted to do this hard sider part, did you call the powers that be on the phone and were you like, how do I get this started or did you email them from their website or how did you do it? No, it was just a web search error. I could look at the regulations online and that's what I did. There were no phone calls involved.

22:30
Just doing a little online research.

22:35
Huh. Okay. Cause I talked to somebody who lived, maybe it was Pennsylvania, not New York. It might've been Pennsylvania. And they were a little bothered at some of the things that the state of Pennsylvania requires them to do for licensing things on their farm. And they kept referring to Pennsylvania as the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And I understand that it is a Commonwealth. So maybe I'm confusing the two.

23:05
situations. I'm guessing that maybe New York isn't quite as hard to deal with as Pennsylvania when it comes to regulations.

23:15
Um, well, I can't say for a fact, um, that New York is not known for being, uh, regulation free, that's for sure. So there's, there's enough here. Um, yeah, I, I really honestly couldn't comment on what the process there is in Pennsylvania in terms of alcohol production. Um,

23:39
Yeah, and it wasn't alcohol. It was just farm stuff, like homestead stuff that they were having issues with. But either way, my point is that every single state is different. Minnesota's rules are... yeah. Yeah, Minnesota's rules are... Minnesota's rules are very different from Wisconsin's. I'm guessing that New York's are very different from Pennsylvania. I'm guessing that Maine...

24:07
Is there a different from Massachusetts? Not every state is gonna have the same rules.

24:16
So, and it's, in one way, I think it's great because not every state has the same growing conditions. They don't have the same situations as other states do. So it makes sense that the regulations might be different. But on the other hand, I kind of wish that some of the regulations were more across the board for the United States because it wouldn't be so confusing sometimes.

24:42
That would be a little bit helpful at things. Yeah, it's, and I understand a lot of the regulations are put in place for food safety. You don't want to be sending anything out that's going to hurt anyone. And of course, you've seen the results of that with all the major food recalls we've seen in the last three to four months. So I get it.

25:08
But it would be nice if it was a little bit more consistent with the board so you knew exactly what you had to do. And yeah, I think some of the regulations could be a little bit streamlined, so a little more clear.

25:24
Yeah, that would help a lot. I feel really lucky to live in Minnesota because Minnesota, if you are a agrower of produce, there's very little stringent crackdown on what you can and can't do. I mean, clearly, you don't want to be spraying cow manure on vegetables that you're going to pick in a week because that's a bad plant. Don't do that. But.

25:53
You don't have to be following 6,000 rules to sell a freaking tomato. You know, it's, it's fairly simple. They're a little harder on, on livestock and they should be. But, but yeah, Minnesota is a good place to be if you are just starting out farming or homesteading small scale. Cause there's just, they're just like, do what you're going to do. And if you have questions, get hold of us.

26:24
This is true. This is true. Yeah, there's some regulations out there that it's like, wow, I'm sure they're there for a reason, but it's like, it kind of leaves you scratching your head some days. It's how intense some of that stuff gets to be. Like you say, same thing when I was growing up, you know, we had extra tomatoes that were canned, the neighbors needed some, there you go guys.

26:52
Yeah, it's really interesting to me, I don't know if it's interesting to anybody else, but it is to me, that we used to do all this stuff, we as humans used to do all this stuff. We used to grow our own food, we used to can our own food, and we used to just give it to our neighbors if they needed help or our neighbors would share their stuff with us and there was nobody saying, oh, you got to have this piece of paper to prove that you did this thing. And now everything requires proof that you did the thing, you know?

27:24
Yeah, I think the world's changed a little bit and some of that, it's a little bit disheartening, I guess. It's just, again, I'm sure the regulations were put in place for a reason somewhere, so there must have been some kind of mishap, but it's kind of unfortunate the world we live in, it seems, has gone a little overboard. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah. I can remember my mom making bread and jam.

27:52
And she didn't make butter because we didn't have any dairy cows, but she would have made butter if we'd had dairy cows. And if someone had a baby, she would take loaves of bread and jars of jam and a casserole over to the house and be like, here, you're going to be busy with your new baby. Here's something to keep you going. And thought nothing of it. It was totally fine. Yes. And having said all of that, you and I both, there is no country in the world I would rather live in than America.

28:23
I've been fortunate to travel to several other countries in the world. I've seen some very beautiful places, but you know, there's really no place like this country in Dallas, L.A. And I've been fortunate enough to travel to just about every state here in the Union. And you know, we are quite fortunate with what we have here, for sure.

28:49
Yes, and the reason I even say that is because we're talking about regulations that we need to follow to do the things that we do. But at least we have the option to do the things and follow the regulations so that we can do what we want to do. I think about the young women in Middle Eastern countries who cannot even attend school now. And I can't imagine.

29:16
I loved school. I can't imagine not having the opportunity to go to school.

29:23
And education is one of the most important things that a person can go through in some way, shape or form. And to be denied that, it's insane. It's just insane to my book. I don't get it. Yeah, and it's sad and it's unfortunate. And I, again, am really happy that I was born in the United States and I live in the United States and I will probably die in the United States. So...

29:51
All right, Paul, on that very bizarre note, I'm going to let you go, but thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it.

30:01
It's been a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me here.

30:06
Yeah, it was great to talk with you.

30:11
Have a great day.

30:14
Alright, bye.