Burrow & Bloom

Today I'm talking with Lulu at Burrow & Bloom. You can follow on Facebook as well.

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00:00
You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters.  I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Lulu at Burrow and Bloom in Bismarck, North Dakota. Good morning, Lulu. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. How's the weather there?  Really cloudy,  really humid over here.

00:25
Oh, well, it's really nippy here in Minnesota this morning for the first time in over a week.  Thank God. It's been very, very hot this past week. Yeah, we should be getting some good weather this weekend though. So I'm excited about that. I'm really happy for you. It's supposed to rain here this weekend and that's okay too, because we could use it. And  that sounds really funny coming out of my face because, you know, I didn't grow up as a homesteader.

00:53
And so every time I say we need the rain, I sound like a farmer. totally understand. So tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do, Lulu.  So my name is Lulu and I'm the owner of Furrow and Bloom.  And  I started a micro  farmstead um in little  North Dakota.  What we kind of do is like we grow

01:23
vegetables. um We raise rabbits. That was how we started on a fourth of an acre. And um we recently started to reach out to the community and provide some of our products. And there was a demand for a refillery store. So we started kind of taking on the responsibility of that. So we're just kind of growing and  taking orders like that. Awesome.

01:52
And I know that you actually produce almost everything that you put out in the world. And so how in the world do you have time for all of that?  So I have to really sit down and make time for it.  I work  as an administrative assistant for a neuropathic doctor here in town. So that takes up a majority of my time, obviously.

02:19
Um, but then I do have a passion for  baking. That's kind of how I got into the whole homesteading life.  And I learned how to make sourdough probably about four or five years ago now.  Um,  so because I enjoy it so much, I make time for it. It started off just  with me baking breads for our family. But then I started gifting it out. People started to really want it. And now.

02:48
I um sell that as part of our farmstead.

02:54
Okay. And what else do you make and sell? So I actually sell ravioli. So when it comes to food, it's bread and raviolis. um That's mainly what I put out and jams. And I try to source all the things here in town as much as I can. And also just like use the community  as  a, um I guess like a support system. Cause a lot of stuff we actually get

03:23
donated or we go and pick up when people no longer need something or just want to get rid of it. So we do use a lot of things like that oh to make our products. Okay, so here's my big question for you. In Minnesota, we have a lot of regulations on  how we can do things like you're doing.

03:46
And in our case, we can't really do pop-ups at businesses unless there's more than three people who are going to be involved, three businesses, three pop-up businesses at the business. Is that how it is for you or can you just like get hold of a business and say, can I use your parking lot for five hours? Yeah. So the laws,  the cottage laws specifically here in North Dakota and Bismarck kind of changed over the years when I first started out.

04:14
Um, cottage bakers were not allowed to bake at all. Like there was no cottage food, um, really allowed without getting permits and pulling all the right licenses. It has now kind of  become, I guess, more accessible because there's such a big farm  life and like rancher life,  um, in the area. And a lot of them.

04:42
don't want to pay, you know, extra licensing because they already have their permits and do all these other things. So a lot of people kind of banded together and the cottage law did change. Before you were only allowed to like bake in an inspected kitchen apart from your home. Now it's a little bit different. You're able to actually bake in your home. You don't need a whole separate kitchen to do that. So the laws definitely have changed over the years. I feel like they're more forgiving. ah When it comes to selling,

05:11
I personally  reach out to businesses and I set up. I don't have other vendors with me. That's never been like something that's been an issue here.  As long as you have like the owner's approval, you can basically set up anywhere. And  a lot of the town is really friendly. So if I was to ever reach out to anyone in the area, I think they would let me set up.

05:37
That's super because that is not how we're allowed to do it here in Minnesota. I wish it was, but it's not yet. Yeah, I think there's a lot of... um I obviously work in healthcare, so I understand  the public health aspect of it where you're trying to keep everyone safe. But at the same time, um I'm not a big grocery chain person. If I can avoid it, I will avoid it at all costs.

06:07
I would much rather buy from a local farmer, rancher, or a baker just because I know that they take more time into sourcing where their products actually come from because we don't know what is actually put on our food, like fertilizers and stuff like that. Like even if it was a natural fertilizer, there's just so many things that could go wrong when it comes to having something that is in a big space like agricultural.

06:36
talk likewise. So I like purchasing personally from small batch um operations just because they're able to control more things.  Yep, for sure. um I'm glad that you brought up that because we grew apples. We have apples coming in right now. They're pretty much done. And our apples are not pretty because we didn't spray them with anything. But

07:03
Once you peel them and cut them up for a pie or an apple crisp, they are fantastic.  The problem that I have with the grocery stores is that the produce is always beautiful. Like the most beautiful section of a grocery store is the produce section.  The reason that that produce is so beautiful is because it has been sprayed with things that we don't even know about. And so if

07:31
If you are someone looking for good food that you know what is on it, it doesn't have to be pretty. It has to be good for you and it has to be edible.  And  I don't love it when my apples come in with spot, but as long as they're not gross on the inside, I'm all good with that. Yeah, of course. And then, uh like I said, like even  backyard, um

07:58
gardeners, there's other ways that you can prevent stuff like that. Like neem oil is such a good way to kind of keep pests away.  There's like natural remedies that don't affect the plant at all  and are safe for us to consume also. So  like I said, I think just small batch is always better. I personally think that's always the way to go.  for sure. And so did you end up getting a storefront for your refill store or are you still doing that at the pop-up too?

08:26
We're currently just set up as a pop-up. We're working with a local business here in town to see if they will host us in a section of their store. It's definitely in the works. There's a lot of other steps that we have to go through to actually get that up and ready. But we're hoping to at least have it ready like by January or February, somewhere along those lines. We're going to continue to do pop-ups through the fall.

08:56
And then in the winter, would be, we would switch purely onto a drop off schedule where people come to a certain location and they pick up unless there's bad weather or something like that. Yes. Northern tier state. Gotta love it. I understand. I grew up in Maine. I moved to Minnesota, which is another Northern tier state and trying to do anything outside from November until April is just bad.

09:26
Yes.

09:29
I'm so  thankful we have a farm stand that we can heat. And so we're going to continue to sell eggs that fall in this winter.  And we didn't do that  last year because we didn't have a way to heat it. But now that we do, we're going to sell eggs this winter. Yeah, that's exciting. We actually also thought about doing a shed model for our business. um the only thing here is that I'm in the capital of  our state.

09:58
There is  a larger population in the area, which means that most of the business space is already occupied. um So putting in a refillery shed, I wanted to do it on  our little property, but our address is just so hard to find. When we did a, um like a trial run, nobody came because nobody was able to find us.  So even with signage that wasn't.

10:25
an option for us. So we're kind of thinking about renting a lot to put the shed on. But even that is like so difficult to find. I feel like it's like a needle in a haystack right now to like try to find it. So that's why we've also been holding off that idea and we're working towards getting in stores instead. and that's probably safer for you right now.

10:52
Only because that way your stuff is inside of an already established business where they have security and  cameras and things that would probably help too.  Yeah, exactly. um Our local farmers market has been looking for a place to do an indoor winter market for over a year now. And we're in a small town and they're having trouble finding stays. So it's not just you, you are not alone.  Yeah, it's really...

11:21
It's a really difficult thing to like rent, know, unless you like have land of your own or a store of your own, it's hard to find  ways to get into these  spaces. Yep. Well, I will keep good thoughts for you that you find a space because these refill stores are something that people really do want. There is a demand for them.  And it's  so great that

11:46
that you're trying to do it. I know that there's one in Maine, because a friend of mine used to go there. And  they're busy all the time.

11:58
Yeah. I mean, here it's definitely a new concept. We did our official first pop-up on Friday of last week and nobody knew what a refill store was except for the people who are actually asking for it. So it's a completely new concept to a lot of people in the area, but we're hoping that, you know, eventually people will understand it and kind of, um,

12:26
It'll pick up a little bit of speed. And I think  what draws people right now  to  our pop-ups is the fact that we make everything in  North Dakota. And again, like we try to source as much as possible here in the area. our products for the refill store, I think are only made up of like five ingredients, tops. So it's really  like natural and like basic and stuff like that.

12:56
So we're hoping that that kind of drives people to kind of  want to shop more with us because we're not a resale store. We don't resell products. Like there's a lot of refill stores that have to order out just because, uh you know, they can't make things in small batch, but they order out from these bigger companies. And essentially it's like the same thing because you still don't know what is being put.

13:25
into those products. And right now too, it's like a lot of these places sometimes greenwash a lot of things. They say they source them like ethically and then you turn around and you find them on places like Xi'an, like Glisted, know, like things like that you can buy in bulk from like Chinese retailers online. So.

13:51
There's just a lot of, um I guess, like ethics behind it. And we're hoping that making sure that people know that everything is made here, it's made clean with minimal ingredients, you know exactly what's in there is like our main focus when it comes to our refill store. Yep, absolutely.  And you were saying that not a lot of people know in your area what a refill store is. Take the floor, tell people what it is. Yeah.

14:18
Yeah, we're definitely trying to brainstorm ideas. There's a couple of like women's groups, so we're hoping to kind of like infiltrate in there, try to get in there. But yeah, it's just, it's difficult too, because a lot of people here, I guess you would say, are like somewhat of an older generation. So a lot of your demographic is like above like 40 years old in this area.

14:47
which is not always a bad thing, but sometimes some people don't see the extreme value and things like that. So it's definitely going to be a journey trying to explain um what our products are for sure. Yeah. And I appreciate everything you just said, but what I'm saying is take your moment now to tell people on the podcast what a refill store is. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So a refill store essentially is, um,

15:17
uh Think about it as like  a  grocery store where you come in and you bring in your jars um or your bags and you fill in bulk or you come in and buy exactly what you need. Sometimes when we go to regular grocery stores,  there's only like a certain size that you can buy and you're also paying for the packaging of it. A refilled store on the contrary.

15:45
You can always borrow packaging or buy packaging in the refill store. But the idea is for you to bring in your containers and just  refill them as you need instead of having to go out to the store, buy a new package every single time and add to the excessive amount of waste that we already produce.  Thank you. Awesome. That was a great explanation.  So how do you charge for the products when people bring in a container? Because I

16:15
I honestly don't know how you would do that. So we have a donation system set up where if you bring in jars,  people can just grab those jars. So we don't charge for jars.  Then when it comes to the actual products, we  weigh them um by ounce. So you're paying, let's say for dish soap, like 30 cents an ounce.  So if you come in with like a six ounce container, that's what you would be.

16:43
paying for, only the six ounces that you're filling up and  like I said, not the actual packaging. Right. Yep. Okay.  And what products do you have now that you're selling at the pop-ups for the refills? Right now we're starting with six products, which is our dish soap, our laundry detergent, and our all-purpose cleaner. We also have  some toothpaste powder, which is a concentrate. We usually tell people to dilute it with  either some water, if

17:13
that's a consistency that you like, or I personally like mixing it with coconut oil.  We also have dog treats available  in bulk and those are  freeze dried, so they are shelf stable, and are powder  laundry detergent. Okay, cool. Awesome. So what made you get into this, um Like I said, I really like the idea of

17:41
having a farmstead and  I'm big on the small batches  of uh products.  And it's just something that uh I've always really liked. My husband and I dream of one day getting like a huge property, at least like, you know, three acres minimum uh and going out and just having a homestead and having an area where we can uh raise animals and stuff like that and still do burrow and bloom.

18:11
Okay. Are you, I don't, I don't want to be nosy, but are you in your twenties? I am. Yeah. I'm 23 and my husband's 25. Okay. My husband and I, I am 55. My husband is 56 and we bought our homestead five years ago. The advice that I would give you or anyone in their twenties who is looking to get into having three acres plus property and, basically busting your ass for the next however many years you're there.

18:41
is do it as soon as you possibly can without putting yourself into bankruptcy. Because the older you get, the harder it is on your body. I promise you, it's better if you start earlier. For sure. um We have somewhat of a plan set up, so we're hoping that in the next three years we'll be ready to purchase land and start  the whole operation there. But yeah, I appreciate the advice.

19:10
Yeah, it's a  lot of work and  I'm not sorry we've done it. I still love it. But in another five years, we may have to slow down because we're not getting any younger. uh And the other thing that I would say is if you can get friends interested in helping when you get your place and teaching them and  paying them in produce or eggs or whatever, that way you have bodies when you need help.

19:40
Yeah, of course. Well, Borough & Bloom is actually, I want the business to be very community driven. Like even now, like I had mentioned, we source a lot of our fruits and stuff like that that we make our jams and our fillings from locally. Sometimes people will reach out to us and say, hey, I have an abundance of grapes. If you come pick it, you know, it's free. Yeah. And I always jump on those opportunities because I'm lowering costs for our customers.

20:09
I can charge a lot less  when it comes to that.  And I'm building a community and contacts. future years when I just had  a couple tell me  to come and pick grapes that I'm sure that in the next two or three years, they will probably not be able to maintain that vineyard.  So it's just nice that we're really community driven, or at least we're trying to be.

20:36
where we can help each other try to figure out that labor part because yeah, I totally get what you're saying. Like having a homestead is like so much work. Like I said, we  garden or farm on like a fourth of an acre and it's the most time consuming thing  and I raise rabbits. So even that, like taking the time out of my day to go and make sure the rabbits are okay, making sure they're clean and that they're healthy. It's a lot of work.

21:04
So I totally understand where you're coming from. Yeah, and I don't want to discourage anybody from getting into this lifestyle, but I see so many posts on Instagram and Facebook and everywhere and social media where everybody's like, oh, it's beautiful and lovely and bucolic and fun.  And it is, but it's also a lot of work and you can't tell your cow you can't milk it this morning. Exactly. m

21:31
Exactly, and it just comes with a lot of heartbreak too. You have to have like a really like thick skin when it comes to it um Because you can have like a lot of loss on your farm also So yeah, it's definitely something that you really have to sit down and consider and make like a commitment to for sure Yeah, absolutely um We we tried raising rabbits for a while and we just we were raising them for meat and they just were not reproducing

22:00
still don't know why. And so we ended up having to call eight rabbits because we had them for two years and there were no babies. Oh, wow. And that was hard. That was a hard move considering how excited we were when we started it. So,  so yeah, there's a lot of joy and beauty here, but there's also a lot of  hurt feelings and heartbreak. And  you have to find the balance.

22:28
Yeah, you really do. And when it comes to like those losses, you really have to kind of fight through them. uh We just recently had a loss,  our uh main doe that we had, we just got her probably about two months ago. She recently passed away like suddenly. And it was really heartbreaking because she was indeed pregnant and it was a miscarriage. sometimes even animals don't know what they're doing, you know, like, and if you don't have

22:56
that knowledge on how to help them or specific things that you can  do to try to help them. It's really difficult even for them. um Because Ardoh was, we're thinking that she was really scared when um she was trying to,  you know,  give birth and  it ended up getting complicated and you know, their rabbits are really sensible. Like anything can scare them, hurt them.

23:23
So she did end up passing away. So it was definitely like a huge loss for us,  like emotionally and also like financially because we were hoping that her babies were going to be able to sustain us through the winter because we were raising  her babies for me. Yep. Yep. It's so hard and it's not just animals. mean,  we've had two summers of really not so great growing weather here where I live.

23:51
We were counting on this summer to be a huge tomato producing summer and it has not turned out that way.  it's like, knew, I knew from last year that we would have more tomatoes this year than we had last year. But  my husband came in and told me that we had the blight starting on tomato plants and I almost cried. I'm like, kidding me. Second summer in a row with very few tomatoes. And he was like,

24:20
we're going to need to make some new choices. And I was like, yes, we are.  Yeah. Like this business is really about pivoting.  Like where's such a small operation? I can't even imagine like how, you know, day to day farmers that do this on a larger scale do it. Like you really have to be able to pivot to kind of like make back your money. Sometimes you just break even and you know, that's,  you just have to be satisfied with that sometimes. Yeah.

24:49
It's a gamble.  Any kind of farming is a gamble and it's hard, but it's so, good when it goes right. you know that. of course.  So,  all right, Lulu, I tried to keep you to half an hour. We're almost 25 minutes. Where can people find you?  You can find us on Instagram, Facebook. And then I do have a personal TikTok that we're going to start sharing on there.

25:13
but we're as Burrow and Bloom on everything. And then you can find us here in the little town of Bismarck, North Dakota. Okay, awesome. I love your business name. Burrow and Bloom is so pretty.  Yeah, we got an inspiration from  the bunnies.  Nice. Okay.  All right. As always, people can find me at AtinyHolmsteadPodcast.com  and please go check out my Patreon account. It's patreon.com slash Atiny Homestead.  Thank you again, Lulu. This was really interesting. Thank you.

25:43
Thank you. Have a great day.