Cotton Cupcakes, LLC

Today I'm talking with Nikki at Cotton Cupcakes, LLC. You can follow on Facebook as well.

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00:00
You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters, and topics adjacent. I'm your host, Mary Lewis.  A Tiny Homestead podcast is sponsored by Homegrown Collective, a free-to-use farm-to-table platform emphasizing local connections with ability to sell online, buy, sell, trade in local garden groups, and help us grow a new food system.  You can find them at homegrowncollective.org. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe.

00:29
share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Nikki at Cotton Cupcakes LLC. Good afternoon, Nikki. How are you? Good afternoon, Maryam. Great, thank you. Good. I always, I swear like one out of three intros that I do, I screw it up somehow and I'm like, ah, it's all right. It's okay. We got it covered. Those are the ones people remember, so that's good. I'm sorry, say it again.

00:54
And those, think those maybe help people remember the names. So it's good if you mess it up, then maybe someone will remember the name more so than not. Or they just giggle and go, yeah, that's Mary again.  Okay. So you're in, where are you in New Hampshire? So I'm in a small, very rural town called Alexandria, New Hampshire. What's it near? So we're near Newfound Lake, which is a stunning, gorgeous, pristine lake. We're very, very fortunate to be beside it.

01:23
And  we're also close to Plymouth. So we're close to PSU, which is the university up there, Plymouth State University. Okay, that doesn't actually help me because when I think of Plymouth, I think Massachusetts. So what's the next biggest town or city? We have Laconia, which is pretty close. We do a huge  annual pumpkin festival at Laconia Pumpkin Festival.  you know, I probably haven't heard of that. Maybe you have, I don't know. I actually grew up in Maine, so I do know where Laconia is.

01:53
fantastic. All of my family's from Maine. Yeah,  and now I live in Minnesota of all places. Oh my goodness, that's quite a ways away.  Yes, yes, I've told the story a few times. I'm not gonna repeat it. It's just sickening to keep saying it over and over again. If you really want to know, I'll explain when we're done recording.  So  your business name is Cotton Cupcakes LLC, but you don't do cupcakes, right? I do not make, I mean, I make cupcakes for

02:20
for joy, you know, for my family and for neighbors and whatnot. But cupcakes, I do not produce cupcakes as a business, no. No.  So tell me about yourself and what you do do at Cupcakes, LLC. Okay, so Cotton Cupcakes came about  because I have wanted to own my own t-shirt company for about 20 years.  So 20 years ago, my husband and I said, we're going to do this thing, we're going to start a t-shirt company. Then we went down to our state house and we applied for our name.

02:49
And one thing led to another and we never got to do it. So 20 years later, my children, I've been a homeschool parent for forever. And about a year ago, about a year and a half ago, my littlest said, I've decided that I don't want to be homeschooled anymore. I want to go to public school. And I was devastated. I went, I was just almost in mourning for a little while, but I've always told my children that if they wanted to go in public school, they could, the option was there that we're homeschooling.

03:19
because we have the pleasure of being able to do so. So I said, okay. So she went in and then my eldest who's going to be starting high school,  just after a year, I said, you you should take some courses so that you can get ready for high school. So I went through a bit of a little emptiness syndrome with one in school full time and one starting to take courses. And I started to freak out like,  oh no, I've got to be something because I've been a homeschool parent for years.  And  I made a picture.

03:47
I was painting a picture and I put it between two pieces of plastic and I pressed on it. And then I pulled the plastic off and I looked at it it was a squished cupcake. And I was like, oh my gosh, I love this squished cupcake.  I want to do something like this because I went to school for design and I've used it in various  elements of my life, but I haven't really been able to do anything for quite a few years with it. And I sent it to my husband, I took a picture and I sent it over the phone and I said,

04:15
you know, do  you think  if I start my t-shirt business now?" And he just responded, that's it. That's it. He just said, that's it, as the words. And I went, I knew it. I was like, okay, because he and I are very in sync and  we believe in a lot of the same things and feel a lot of the same ways. And he said, this is it. This is what you're supposed to do. So I took my squished cupcake.  I call it pressed art. Some of my art is called pressed art. I'll  paint a picture.

04:43
and  I'll either leave it as is or I take like a plastic covering and I press it and then pull it off and see what I have. And if I love it,  I send it away to a digital transfer company and they put it on a gang sheet for me and send it back in duplicate. And then we  have pressing machines and I press all of my own stuff. So it's all original artwork  and  it's right out of my home for now. Our goal is to hopefully

05:13
be able to have an open shop someday.  But yeah, so that's how Cotton Cupcakes came about. That is such a fun story. I love that. So you're one of the few people that I've had on the podcast who is actually a crafter because the painting part is the craft. Yes.  And I do all of it. do.

05:38
99 % of it is all just painting. And then when I do download it onto the computer, I'll digitally enhance some of it or do some of the work with it. But for the most part, it's all just painting. It's all just paintings. some of them are  actually some of them are really, really old pictures that I had done 20 and 30 years ago. used to, when I went to college, I was very, very homesick and I used to paint little pictures for my mother all the time and send them in the mail.

06:06
and she saved every single one of them. She had them all and she passed away a few years ago and  she always would save ephemera. She had all of her papers everywhere. And I started to go through them and I found all of these illustrations that I had done for years. So I'm doing a line of little  characters  that are in my mom's memory  of all of these little things that I had sent over the years and she had every single one of them. So  it's fun. Some of my stuff is sentimental  and

06:37
It's just,  it's definitely from the heart, that's for sure.

06:42
That's really special, Nikki. That's amazing.  Okay, so I have a question about the transfers. These t-shirts aren't silkscreen. They're like the sticky plastic kind that goes on a t-shirt, yes? So  that's like a vinyl. So there's vinyl and there's silkscreen and there's digital, it's called DTF,  digital to film transfers. So that's kind of a relatively  new technology. I mean, I wouldn't say it's totally new. It's been around for a few years, but.

07:13
It's getting very, very popular. In fact, it'll make the t-shirt company industry supposedly go up by 11 % from now until 2030. So t-shirts will boom a lot more simply because people who do artwork now can do their artwork, take a picture of it, send it to these companies, and then you get your artwork literally back and compress it within moments. So it's not...

07:38
Like when I go to press something,  simply cut it off of the plastic gang sheet. set it on my shirt and I press away and there you go. 25 seconds later, you have your first press and then you tear off the plastic sheet. You do another 25 second press and you have  a viable item for sale, which is so cool. It just opens up a whole world to people. You know, so that's, that's one of the reasons I was intrigued by it is because I did a lot of studying on it before I did it.  And, um,

08:09
I was most impressed with this because it would allow me the most flexibility with my artwork.

08:16
Okay, so I'm not trying to be  nitpicky, but  the vinyl ones, after like a year or so of wearing and washing, that vinyl starts to lift up off the t-shirt material. Does the way that you're doing it not do that? So what they say is, and I have to go by obviously the company, the digital transfer film company, supposedly the digital transfer film that's on your shirt will outlast the life of your shirt. Okay, cool. So that's how they sell it.

08:44
Now I'm not a digital transfer film company and I've only been in this company myself for nine months. I started nine months ago. So,  so far in the nine months that  I've been doing it with the shirts that I've been using, we've seen fantastic success. I mean, you press and it's just like a silk screen. It's like a vinyl. It's the  same concept,  it's you still have to press them.

09:10
at like 325 degrees or whatever degree you need for wherever you're living because sometimes it can range from  environment to environment. But for the most part, it's exactly the same thing. It's kind of the same like if you go to Old Navy or if you go to some of those commercial based  t-shirt companies, they have a lot of DTF transfers as well. That's what a lot of those shirts are. So  it's just it's a mainstream item, but it's very, very popular. And now it's kind of it's an industry that's open to the general public now.

09:40
So that's why it's so accessible whereas before I don't think it was very  accessible and it is still  newer than Vinyl Transfers, Sublimation and what was the other one we were talking about? Can you remember? But anyway, it's relatively  newer  but it has been around for a few years.  Okay, the reason that I asked is my youngest son had a t-shirt that he loved and it was the vinyl kind.

10:09
you know, picture on the t-shirt was the vinyl kind. And after a couple years of wearing that over and over again,  the design started to peel off and he was little and he was heartbroken. And I didn't think to buy two of them because he was going to grow.  know what size to get for a second one. So I just didn't.  I should have. He grieved that t-shirt. I'm not kidding you. You know what's sad is he probably could have had that

10:38
Because vinyl is the same thing. They're pressing vinyl onto fabric. It could have been repressed. I bet you anything that could have been brought to a press shop and pressed and you probably would have, it might have had minor cracks in it where the vinyl cracked, but I bet you it could have been pressed again. Yeah. Well, it's way too late now. He's 23 now.

11:05
That's the thing with like with DTF transfers. Yeah. Yeah. You probably could have had it repressed. I mean, even these in the future, I'm sure that if you overdry a DTF transfer, if you put it in the dryer and you leave it for extended periods, like maybe you overdry your clothes after hundreds of drying cycles, you will see cracking and peeling just like any shirt, you know, after wear and tear. But the interesting thing about these DTF transfers is you can put them right back on your platen.

11:35
on your pressing unit and you can repress and  it  looks exactly the same as it did when you first pressed it,  which is pretty crazy. So it's really neat.  It's a very intriguing world. Like when I started into it, I knew very little  and it's just fascinating to me. It's fascinating to me that I can paint something on a piece of paper. I can take a picture of it. And then three days later, cause I work with a company that does like rush orders.

12:02
Three days later, it's on a shirt and I'm looking at my daughter run across the lawn with it. It's crazy.  So I saw on your Facebook page that you have little Easter egg t-shirts right now and they're very, very cute.  I do. The question I have is if somebody, I don't know, if somebody had like a favorite pet who passed away or  a signature from someone they loved who's passed away,

12:31
Could you do a custom t-shirt for them? Is that something you would consider? Well,  it's kind of like,  so a few people have actually, not a few people,  many people have asked me, many people have said, you know,  can you do something for my  kids soccer team? you do, so primarily I'm kind of like life is good t-shirts. Like I'm starting my own brand. So I'm trying to brand my own style.

13:00
And my style, sadly, because a lot of people have asked me this, does not include words. People have said, oh, well, you put words on it. I specifically say that's not  the style of my brand because when I started out with it,  you have to differentiate yourself because I'm up against millions of t-shirt companies. There's so many t-shirt companies out there. And a lot of people starting just like I am because of DTF transfers  that you have to, they say, don't even bother getting into it unless you can think about how to be different.

13:30
So originally I said, okay, first of all, it's my own original artwork, so that's different. It's not like computer generated, it's paint. Like you can actually see the strokes on my shirt. It's my artwork. So I said, all right, I'll do that. And then if I put words on it, unfortunately, you can't really dress up the t-shirt. And one of the main things about my shirts that I try to impress on people is you can actually wear one of my shirts with like a tool skirt, a blazer, slacks.

13:59
and you can actually dress it up because it doesn't have any words on it. So it was fun. went down to TD Bank, which is our local bank down here, and they're wonderful to businesses and TD Bank said,  you know, you can come into our lobby for a month and we'll put a whole display of your business because I have  a check-in account with them. And they said, we'll help advertise you for the month, which they do for all local businesses. And I said, oh, this is fantastic. So I brought my stuff down and I explained to the women,

14:28
that were the tellers that my shirts could be worn dressy or they could be worn with a pair of jeans. It's whatever you choose. So the bank manager said, I would never have thought, I don't think that you can wear a t-shirt and dress up. And I said, Barbara, try it. Go try it. Go home and put on something and wear the shirt that's a pop of color and see how it turns out for you. And she did it. She went out and bought a pair of slacks and she got a blazer and she came in with,  you know, all the ladies got one of my t-shirts.

14:55
And she came in and she looked, she goes, I never would have thought about this. Like I never would have thought that I could wear a t-shirt and feel like I could pull this off. And I said, well, that's the difference between my shirt and somebody else's. I don't have way to go underneath my words. I don't have something to try to enhance the painting. The painting itself  enhances itself. So I don't try to add anything on to umph it up. I just say, this is it. And  it's pretty funny. I did a whole blog about it.

15:25
and  saying how you can feel elegant in a t-shirt. And it's amazing how many people resonated with that blog. Like they said, oh my gosh, like this is me. Like I want to wear a t-shirt and a skirt and feel dressy. And I said, well, that's me. I don't like to dress up. I don't like to feel like something that I'm not. And I can wear one of these t-shirts and I can wear a dress and I can wear a nice pair of flats or even a pair of heels if I have to. And I feel like myself,  but a little classier, a little dressier and it works.

15:55
That's why I don't often put words on. So if people say, oh, I want my kid's name or whatnot, said, well, that's not really my brand. That's not really how I go.  Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. And  the other thing is that people are wearing art if they're wearing your shirt. That's right. Yeah, they're wearing original artwork, which is totally fun.  And some of them are wearing artwork from 20 years ago.  one that you saw with the Easter eggs.

16:20
On my Facebook page, I explained that when they get those, they're going to see cracks in the Easter eggs.  And I said, don't be alarmed. That's not your DTF transfer. I painted those little eggs 20 years ago for my husband when we first got married on barrel slats.  And the beauty of a DTF transfer is I took a picture of my artwork on the barrel slats. And when you delete the background and you have just the eggs left,  have eggs painted on wooden barrel slats.

16:47
So it's neat, it gives you a textural feel. It just allows you to do so many things.  You can paint on anything, remove the background, and put it on a t-shirt. Yeah, and what you're talking about is the wood grain showing through the paint on the eggs. It absolutely does. It's so cool. So it gives an antiquey feel to a painting that I did 20 years ago, and now  people are wearing it. And actually, that little series of Easter shirts,  inside the shirt, I've hidden a teeny, teeny, tiny Easter egg.

17:16
They have to go find it. It's either pressed inside the shirt or under the arm or some random place and it's tiny. It's like the size of like the eraser at the top of your pencil. And they have to go find it. And when they find it, they go into my Facebook page and say, I found it. And then I enter them into a Easter package surprise that they can win before Easter. So it's really fun. they get to go on an Easter egg hunt with us when I go send out their shirts. It's a virtual Easter egg hunt. I love it. That's the whole point.

17:44
Fantastic. You're brilliant. You are very good at this. I'm trying. I'm trying. I'm still fairly new to it, but I'm trying.  And it's a full family affair. And one of the reasons that we did the business was to  not only  it wasn't only just to start a new business, we actually sold our business of 12 years  last fall. And then it was my turn. You know, my husband said, it's your turn. Let's do it. Let's do what you've wanted to do. But I also wanted to make it completely.

18:12
completely interactive for my children and my family. I wanted it to be a full family affair. And it truly is a full family affair. Like my kids have been the models for me. My husband has helped me try to market it. Like all four of us are involved. it really is, it's been creating a future for my family and we're doing it together, which is just, it's a blessing. It's awesome.  It is a blessing when you can work with your family.  I'm gonna  tell a story. My dad,

18:41
worked in the medical field. He wasn't a doctor or anything. He actually repaired  like the EKG machines and the ventilators and things like that. So he was a bio med tech is the term. And when we were younger, he worked a lot. And so when he was home,  it was an event. If dad was home, we wanted to be with dad. And when I had my kids with my husband,  when dad walked through the door, my husband,

19:10
The kids were like, daddy and run and jump and just be all over him all evening until they went to bed. And he was like, why do they love me so much? I said, because you're gone five days a week for 12 hours a day. And he was like, oh, and I said, I said, now you could be on the flip side. You could be the mom who's home with them all day and they want nothing to do with me. He was like, no, I like my role better. I said, good.

19:38
You be the good time dad, I'll be the kiss the hours and help with homework mom. He's like, okay, good. So it's really great when you guys can all be together and be working. I know it's a really amazing. mean, for 12 years we've dreamed about this. Like we've really dreamed about being able to spend more time with my husband because the business that we created was, it got extremely busy and he was on the road all the time. And, and

20:07
We just seldom get to see him. So when he finally retired from that job, he's not retired, obviously, because we're going to do this business. But when he retired  from his business,  was like the kids were like, they were shocked. They get up in the morning and dad said,  I'm taking you to school today. And the kids were going, oh my gosh, dad's taking us to school. Because even my homeschooler has a couple of classes in the morning. And obviously, my little one is full time now.

20:34
He just,  was, it's the coolest thing. now, and then he comes home and we press together, you know, he's pressing the neck presses and I'm pressing the front press. And,  it's so we've just always worked very well together. I know that doesn't happen with all spouses, but for us,  we started out as EMTs together on an ambulance and we just loved working together.  And over the years, you know, altered and we started this business instead. And  we really wanted to get back to being able to spend time together. And I can't believe that.

21:03
you know, it's happening that he's here and we're doing a whole new venture and we're going for it. And the girls are included too. So it's really, really fantastic. I'm so happy for you. You sound so tickled with this. I am. I'm shocked actually. Like I get up every morning and I'm like, I'm so excited for the day. Like I'm so excited. And I think,  you know what?  I'm going to tell a story and it's,  I'll tell it quick,  but I was in a grocery store.

21:32
I was in a grocery store yesterday and this is, I would say like my seventh experience that I've had  in the past two weeks. And I'm not kidding. Like it's gone over and over again. having the same experience. Went into the grocery store. There's a woman who is a cashier, known her forever, known her since my little kids were little. And I could tell something was off and I said, what's going on with you today? And she just kind of mumbled and I'm like, you're not yourself. And come to find out as we were speaking, I said, how many...

21:59
How many years have you been here?" And she said, I've been here 23 years. And she looks all of 23. So I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. And she said, no, I'm 39 years old and I've been here for 23 years. And I said, oh my gosh, you're not happy. You don't want to be here. And all of a sudden she looked at me and she started to sob. And thank goodness there was no one behind us. So she came out from around the counter and I'm holding her and I'm rubbing her back and I'm saying, oh my gosh. I said, what was happening? And she basically ended up saying,

22:28
I really want to do something else. want to go be a nurse, but I don't feel like I have a support network to help me. And this is what I want to do. And she's the seventh person within a two week period that I've spoken to that is absolutely  miserable.  you know what, the only thing I can say, Mary, is we have one life that we're going to remember. We have this life and  it's so sad to waste it. And I know life can be daunting and I know it can be intimidating.

22:58
But if you stay in a job that you do not like and you lose all those years of your life, there has got to be something more. It's just, it's not the right choice for you. It's not the right choice for your family members. And if you don't have that support network, you've got to find it. You've got to find the people that would support you. And it's just devastating because, you know, I want to teach my children that

23:21
they can't be complacent about the job that they have in their life, that they've got to be in love with it. Yeah, they'll have some jobs that are kind of like a means to an end, but it's the end that matters. You know, like, are you happy? Are you gratified? Are you excited? Because it just makes life so rich and otherwise, what are we doing?  Like literally, what are we doing? Yeah, exactly. And  I'm gonna say something about my podcast yet again. I had no idea that I would love

23:50
doing this podcast as much as I do. If you had asked me five years ago if I would be good doing a podcast, I would have been like, no, I hate being on video.  I hate listening to my own voice recorded. No, I don't want to do a podcast. And then I was like, but people keep telling me I have a voice or a face for radio. They joke because I'm not ugly or anything, but you know, they're like, you have a face or voice for radio. And I never did anything with it because I was raising kids.

24:20
And when I started thinking about what I wanted to do when the youngest moved out and that was short lived, he's back. I was like, what am I going to do? And I thought and thought and thought, and I was like, I'm going to do a podcast. It's like the most out of character thing I can think of. It's a challenge. I'm going to do it. And I thought I'd do a couple of episodes and it would fail. would just be like, nobody listened. Oh, well, whatever. tried it and I freaking love it.

24:49
I love the people I talk to. Some of them become friends. Some of them become acquaintances. I'm okay with either. It doesn't matter to me. People are people.  And I just, get up in the morning when I know I have interviews to do and I get my coffee and I go look at the pages that I found the people on and I'm like,  oh, they do this thing. Oh, they do this thing. And I'm just so energized when I sit down to talk to you guys.  I'm so happy with it. So I get it.

25:18
But the one thing I will say is that it's a privilege. know, a lot of people are not in a position to go after the thing that they love. Number one, because they may not have the support system. Number two, they may not have the seed money to get it going. And number three, they just may not have the confidence to jump off the cliff. Yeah. I know. And it's devastating. So I get what you're saying. And yes, I wish that everybody could go do

25:48
the thing that they love and make money from it and support themselves. But not everybody can and it's a huge bummer. Yeah, it is. truly is. That's all I have to say on that part. I agree. I agree. But I'm very excited for you that you are having a ball and you're putting out some really cool, uplifting things for people. Thank you. I'm trying. mean, I think the really

26:18
wonderful thing is  your t-shirts are adorable. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, the people that have been following the Facebook page. I said to my husband, I never expected to  get to know some of these folks.  And it's amazing how they have become part of our world. You know, like we'll put something like now I'll ask opinions. Now I'll say, what do you guys think? Which design do you like the most? need to know.

26:46
or I'll show them a line of sweatshirts. Like this week I found sweatshirts for kiddos. And I said, what do you guys think? Do you like these? Do you think this is something I should add on to the website? Because every article of clothing that I choose to add on is a financial investment. So I like their thoughts.  If they're into it and they think it's great, then I know it's something I should do. And they respond, which is amazing. I can put something on and there'll be 22 or 23 comments within an hour. And I'll go, oh my gosh.

27:16
So I can really get  my finger on the pulse of what  a much larger mass of people is thinking.  And they know that I value their opinion. And some of them I genuinely  hope to meet someday, which is kind of crazy. Like some of them have become friends and it's a gift. It's really cool.

27:39
So our hope for Cotton Cupcakes is, mean, primarily we're an online store right now  and we've started to go into some different retail shops locally. But the goal is actually to have our own storefronts  and you know how far we go.  I don't know. I'm excited about just my first one.  In June we're going to be opening up just a small shop that's off of our barn.

28:02
where people can come in and they can actually choose the transfers that they want pressed on the shirts. They can even choose the location where they want the transfers put. If they don't want to them squarely in the middle of the chest, can choose where they want them to go so we can give them a more personalized experience. But  the goal is to have some shops and  to have people be able to walk in the door and try those shirts on because

28:25
As much as I really appreciate things that are online, I'm also a tactile person. I want to touch things. I want to feel things. I want to see what they look like on me. And I'd like to give those experiences to the people that are enjoying our designs. It reminds me of a tattoo shop, but there's no needles involved. There's no needles. Yeah. It's much friendlier. Less painful. Yeah, absolutely. My daughter has tattoos.

28:51
She sends me photos because she lives in Florida and I live in Minnesota and she sends me photos of her newest tattoos and  I'm a really cool mom. I'm like, that's gorgeous. What inspired that one? And I get the story and yay. But man, every time I think about that body that I grew covering the tattoos,  it kind of hurts my heart a little bit. My husband is a big tattoo guy. He loves the tattoos. I have none.

29:16
And I don't know what direction my children will go because they have one versus the other, which is pretty funny. And we just say, whatever you're going to do, you're going to do. So we'll be prepared for anything.  Yeah. just, when she got her first one, I don't even remember what it was now. It was,  it was important to her. It was lovely. It looks good on her. And she was like, so what do you think? And I was like, do you want the cool mom answer or do you want the heartfelt mom answer? And she said both. And I said, the cool mom answer is it's gorgeous. I love it.

29:45
and I'm really glad that you can handle the owie of that.  I said,  the genuine mom answer is,  I grew you. I grew that perfect skin and you just had needles with ink poked into it.  And she's like, yeah, but, and I'm like, I'm not telling you not to get tattoos. It's fine. It's your body. It's your choice with what you do with it.  But it hurts my heart just a little bit.

30:11
that that skin is not the skin I grew. And she's like, well, honestly, body cells regenerate every however many years and it's not the same skin you grew anyway. And I'm like, enough, yes. Oh man, that's a very intelligent response. Yeah, well, she's a smart ass and she's smart. So I had to accept it. And she's 35 now. I mean, she got her first tattoo in her early 20s, I think. But either way.

30:38
I don't know how we got on tattoos. Oh, because  you're letting people choose where they have the design on the t-shirt.  yeah, definitely.  But yeah, being a mom's hard. I'm just going to leave it at that.  It's one of the most wonderful and thankless jobs on earth. I think we all know that if we have kids. So absolutely. Absolutely. All right, Nikki, I try to keep these to half an hour and we're at 31 minutes and 26 seconds. So I'm going to cut you loose.  Thank you for being like the third.

31:05
Genuine crafter I've talked to you in over a year and half on the podcast. I'm like, thank you for having me It was wonderful. Yeah, it was really fun and keep keep making those t-shirts are awful. I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it. Thank you, Mary. All right