Empty Pockets Ranch

Today I'm talking with Lori at Empty Pockets Ranch. You can also follow on Facebook.

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00:00
This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Lori at Empty Pockets Ranch. Good morning, Lori. How are you? Good morning. How are you? I'm doing well. I'm good. And I can hear the wind blowing, so it must be sunny and beautiful there. For right now, yes. And you're...

00:30
You're in New York? Yes, I'm in upstate New York. Okay, awesome. All right, well, tell me about Empty Pockets Ranch. Yep, okay. Tell me about Empty Pockets Ranch. Is it called that because if you're going to run a ranch, your pockets are going to be empty? Yes, basically. And it's funny because that's probably like the number one question I get asked by visitors is, why would you call yourself something like that? And I feel like if you're remotely involved in any type of agriculture...

00:59
like you're going to get it. It takes a certain kind of someone to want to do this. You work a bazillion hours a week for hopefully to break even type of thing. So it's just like a running joke amongst so many farmers about having empty pockets. So I was like, this is a nice tongue in cheek way to salute everyone in agriculture because we're all in this together.

01:30
Yeah, I was telling my son that I was going to be talking to you today and the name of your ranch and I said, we should have named our place Go For Broke Acres. It's true though, right? Yup, exactly. It's hard work and it's expensive and it takes time. So I think it feels like all of your resources are sucked dry all the time. Yes, exactly.

01:59
economic mess that we're in. It's so hard to be able to predict the future, what's going to happen, what should you invest in, what should you grow. It's very, I don't know, it's weird times right now. Yeah, that's what everybody I've talked to lately says. They're like, I don't know what's going on with this world, but we're just gonna keep trying to grow food and feed people. And I'm like, good, do that. Right. So I looked at your Facebook page and your website,

02:29
By the way, tried to look at it 10 minutes ago and I couldn't do it. Something about DNS stuff. So you might want to look into that. Yes, it's brand new. So maybe there's some kind of issue. Yeah. I don't know, but wanted to give you a heads up. So look, looked at your Facebook page. You have a gazillion things going on, like you said. So tell me what you guys do. So we started.

02:58
in 2017 with dairy sheep. And I had worked at a big dairy sheep downstate milking. And most people are like, oh, you can milk sheep? And then I say, yeah, you can milk anything with nipples. But I started my own flock after college. I went back to college as an adult later on and getting into cheese making is pretty much impossible.

03:29
Okay. It's so regulated. There's so many rules. Just to get started, I needed about $100,000 worth of upgrades to my barn. So right off the bat, I said, okay, no, can't do that. I had already started to piece together East Frisian sheep. They're not very common in my area of the country.

03:59
wax compared to here. So I had these sheep now and I'm like, all right, these aren't cheap. I went all over the place looking for them. Doing sheep cheese is not going to be an option, at least not at that time. So I'm like, what can I do next? So I bought a soap business. I had never made soap in my life. And I started like experimenting.

04:28
using the sheep milk and soap because goat milk was like all the rage several years ago. But it was getting played out at that point. So I'm like, all right, this is working. And I started doing pretty well with the sheep milk soap because it's different, you know. And we upgraded our farm. We were renting a farm in another town and it was only on four acres. So we had the sheep, we had the livestock guardian dogs.

04:55
And then we moved to this bigger farm that was 94 acres. So I went from four to 94. And then COVID came, like right after we had moved in. I did most of my business downstate on Long Island because that's where the money was. My town up here is pretty poor, rural, like typical agriculture town where they can't justify.

05:24
you know, the added expense of a luxury item like sheet milk. So, so I would take all of my stuff downstate. COVID came and everything was canceled. You couldn't go to markets. You couldn't go anywhere. So we had a three-car garage just sitting here on the property, and it was full of prior owner stuff. So I was like, all right, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm turning this into a farm store. So that's kind of what I did.

05:51
I started filling the store with soaps, like some crafty things that I did. I grew a lot of blueberries. And it just kind of like evolved from there. That year, everything had shut down and I had no idea what I was doing, but I opened the farm to the public. So I started doing festivals here and I had to be in compliance with the Department of Health laws.

06:19
And the Department of Health didn't even really know what the laws were. Um, so it was kind of like, okay, you're outside, everybody, you know, wear a mask, blah, blah, blah, and everything started going well. So that year I decided, okay, like, I'm going to take some stuff that I've seen work in other areas of the country and I'm going to try it out here and see how it goes. So I planted two acres of sunflowers, just hand planted them to see how they would do.

06:48
No one in my area was doing that. And then that was kind of like the kickoff of how things happened. Um, we had a news station come over to do a story and I particularly was not ready for that, but you don't say no. Right. Yeah. Um, they came and they did a feature on the farm. And then after that, it was just like wild. It was the amount of people that were coming here, visiting the farm. And you know,

07:16
Like once you get to that level of popularity and you have to always come up with new things because if you don't, someone down the road is copying you. Well they're probably going to copy you anyway. But you always have to keep new things coming, right, to be able to keep the people coming. So I expanded into now I do a total of seven acres of you pick flowers. So I do zinnias.

07:44
I do sunflowers, I have all kinds of you pick flowers. And then I got the NRCS high tunnel grant last summer and I've really focused on specialty dahlias and it's a super hot market and there's multiple income streams off of the one flower. So you can sell tubers, you can sell cuttings, you sell the cut flowers. And I went for the stupid expensive high end varieties that the florists want.

08:14
So now I can wholesale to florists. I have them come and they cut their own flowers out of the high tunnel of what they want and then they pay me. I've done wedding design work. I do the upick. So, and then I have my own shop which I supply flowers there and then I supply flowers to several other shops in the county. And it's funny because five years ago I didn't even know what a peony was. So.

08:42
It's kind of been a strange turn of events of things you don't necessarily ever expect to do and opportunities just fall into your lap kind of thing. Uh-huh. Congratulations on the grant. Grants are amazing. We got one for a heated greenhouse and I think we got it in October of 23 and just finished the build in May. So I understand about grants.

09:10
It's really weird because sometimes grants are a thing where you have to sit down and really think about your answers and really write in a very professional manner. And sometimes grants are two questions. You answer the questions and by some miracle you get the grant, which is what happened to us. So. Right. And it's so funny because one of my best friends from- It's kind of crazy. Yeah. She does grant writing. So she helps me out with the ones that are tough.

09:39
I mean, I could do it, right? But since I'm pulled in 7,000 directions and my friend does this for a living, I'm like, hey. Sometimes I'm good with the words, so why don't you help me out? And I honestly, if I sat back and totaled it, I probably have gotten upwards of $75,000 of grants. I'm just really good at finding them. I don't know how, they just like come to me and.

10:06
But they help, you know, they absolutely help, especially when you're first getting started and you don't know what you're doing. It's nice to, you know, have some help with it because businesses are expensive, you know. Yes they are and more expensive than you would have guessed most of the time. Yeah. All right. So I have a question.

10:29
How old are you? You don't have to tell me exactly. You can say mid-20s, mid-30s, whatever you'd like to say. Oh, God, I wish I was mid-20s. I just turned 41 in April. Okay, so it's not the boundless energy of 20-year-olds that's keeping you going. So how do you manage to keep this all organized and how do you schedule or plan your day so you get everything done?

10:55
Well, I plan my day one way and then it never goes that way. So I have a toddler too. So that doesn't really help my time management situation. But I do have older kids that are 18 and 16 and they do a lot here. Like they do most of the farm chores. They help me run the store. They do a lot of like the grounds keeping type thing. We don't have employees. We should probably have employees, but.

11:25
I'm very much like why pay someone when I can do it myself kind of thing. So it's just like I'm very you have to be flexible right because like you go out to do one thing and then a rainstorm comes out of nowhere and you're like okay can't do that, pivot on to the next activity. So I kind of just do like what needs to be done and what can wait. Like that's kind of how it is.

11:50
I'm a little behind from my sunflower festival this year in August. It's a big festival. We have like thousands of people that come. And I'm behind on still getting vendors and stuff like that, but I'm like, nah, I have time, you know? Like, the flowers need fertilizing first. So I kind of just roll with the punches type thing. And something's always going to go wrong. Like last Thursday, I came home from my preschoolers' graduation.

12:20
and our store freezer had completely crapped out. I went to the- Oh no. I lost $2,500 worth of prepared dinners that we had just made the day before. And I didn't know if I wanted to like rage throw the freezer or cry, you know? But I'm like, okay, you know what? It's Thursday, we're gonna be busy. I don't have time to like have a mental breakdown over this. So I'm just gonna take care of it and move on. And you know, luckily I have insurance on-

12:49
everything because of you know this is going to happen and I knew it was going to happen at some point but you know these things happen at the most inconvenient of times as well so you just have to like know that that's that's all part of this you know you're going to walk out to the field and your cow is stuck in a fence or did something stupid you know or a sheep like cut themselves like they just do things so I think you have to be able to have that like oh well.

13:18
onto the next type attitude or it's going to be really hard to survive. Without going insane, yeah. Yeah. Oh, if anyone who wants to get into this willingly, there's probably like a mental illness component to all of us because who wants to work like, you know what I mean? Like it really takes a certain kind of person and you really have to love the lifestyle and

13:45
That's why on my post, I try to do as much education as possible because where we live now, we've had a lot of people move up to the country during COVID that thought they wanted to be a farmer. And so they've collected all these farm animals and, you know, want to do a big garden. And then they realized like, wow, this kind of sucks. Like I can't go on vacation.

14:13
I can't just leave for the weekend when I want to, and I could work the entire summer and still have a crop failure. So I think there's like a really steep learning curve for people and you really have to have tough skin to be able to make it in this industry because the chance of things going wrong is way higher than the chance of things going right, if that makes sense. Yes, and having said all that,

14:42
I don't want to scare people away from trying homesteading or farming or whatever because you can dive in whole hog and spend all your money and get all the animals and all the tractors and all the seeds and all seedlings and basically run yourself into the ground in the first six months. Or you can start small. Right.

15:07
You can buy a place with a decent house on it with an acre or so, and you can do a small garden and get your feet wet and your hands dirty. And then you can decide if that's working and then you can make the next step. And if you find that you absolutely love it and you love the chaos and the surprises, then you can sell that place and buy a bigger place if you wanna go bigger. So.

15:34
I understand what you're saying and you are absolutely right, but I also want people to understand that you don't have to start all the way in, if that makes sense. Right. And that's what I did. I mean, there are days where this place is overwhelming to me. I mean, I have a 12,000 square foot barn. I board horses. I have a store.

15:55
I do flowers. I essentially have like six businesses in one. And if I had like jumped into this, I would be in the nuthouse by now because it is, it can be very overwhelming. And that's definitely the best advice is to start small because you don't know what you're going to like too. I felt like I had to grow vegetables because like, oh, you know, you have a farm, you have to grow vegetables.

16:24
After year two, I discovered I absolutely hate growing vegetables. I hate it. I loathed it. I did not enjoy anything about it. So it took me two years to figure that out, that I really didn't like it and I was doing it because I had to. But I did it on a small scale. So I wasn't out a ton of...

16:48
I was out of time, but I wasn't out a ton financially, and then I could repurpose the space for something else. So I think that's a really good idea to start small because you might try something and be like, oh, I really don't like this. So cut it off of the table. Yeah, my husband loves to garden. I have talked about this ad nauseam on the podcast since last August, and I don't.

17:15
I don't love gardening. I don't love weeding. I don't love it. So that's his de-stressor from work. And honestly, if he came home tomorrow from work and said, I can't do my job and the gardens anymore, I would just dance a jig and be like, okay, cool. Let's just plant peonies on the whole property next year. We will have a peony farm. Three years from now, we will be selling peonies like hotcakes.

17:43
He would probably go for that because they grow really well here in Minnesota. Right, right. And they're they're a high value flower. I mean, some of them get seven dollars a stem for you plant them once and they come back every year. And I think that's something to consider, too. Not like I want to like preach everyone go grow flowers. And that's the answer to your problems, because, you know, it's not. But I think like looking at it from a value perspective, too. So.

18:12
where I live now, we have a ton of city people that are moving up, and then we have an influx of Amish coming up from Lancaster because they can't afford the taxes, I guess. And who would have thought that New York taxes would be cheaper than Pennsylvania, but I guess they must be. So now, you can't compete with their pricing. They're selling flats of heirloom tomatoes for $20. Wow. I can't throw them for that. I can't do anything with that.

18:42
So if you're looking to grow for yourself and or if you're looking to grow to sell I think are two different Things too. I mean even to grow for yourself. I don't think I'd $20 a flat I would go two doors down and Pick up a flat some Peter but you know, it's it's a factor to consider too When you say flat like the actual tomatoes not the plants. Yeah

19:12
Oh my god, that is I'm coming to visit them because we can't grow tomatoes that cheap. No, I don't know like how I maybe I don't want to know how. But I mean, if you they don't have the overhead that we you know, that we have. And I mean, I know when I'm pricing things, I'm guilty of undercharging, I'm sure, too. But I'm not taking into effect my weight costs or, you know, whatever. And I, you know, I don't.

19:39
pay myself because my time is free here. But there's a lot of things to consider. If you're going to price appropriately, I'd have to charge $120 a flat for tomatoes where they're charging $20. It's interesting to see the price fluctuations. I think that has helped me a lot in my direction planning too.

20:08
Do I want to compete with this guy two doors down for me? No, because it's not worth my time. I'm out here picking bugs off of tomato plants and it doesn't make sense. So I think that was an important part of how we got to where we're at now. And really, I mean, we started in 2017 originally, but I didn't open any of this and we didn't even move here till 2020.

20:37
So I'm really going on year four and I've pivoted significantly multiple times over the last four years over things that work, things that don't work, things that are gonna be cost effective and things that are not gonna be cost effective. For sure, yep. Okay, so I saw that you do farm camp or day camp. Yes. And tell me about that, is that super fun? Yes, in small doses.

21:06
So we did it last year for the first time and we ran two sessions. I did a session for five to 12 year olds and then I did another session for like 12 to 15 year olds. So I could really tailor it because when you combine them, like you're so busy with the little kids, the older ones get overlooked a little bit. So we do a ton of stuff. So we do like, I do like a mini bouquet making class.

21:35
They get to spend time with the farm animals. They'll collect eggs from the chickens. They spend time with the horses. And then we have this big steer. His name's Oscar. And he comes out and the kids can pet him and spend some time with him. We go over nutrition for livestock, how to properly handle livestock.

22:01
This year we're doing a pottery, a friend of mine from another farm around the way here has pottery classes. So she's going to come over and they're going to make a little farm themed mug with her pottery wheel. So I try to keep them super busy. Mostly our kids that have second homes up here and they're not necessarily exposed to livestock.

22:30
those of us who live on farms are and it's they seem to really enjoy it and I have a lot of the same kids Come back every year. So I try to spin it a little bit different and add new activities or new lessons Like this year. I ordered a ton of predatory insects and even though you're supposed to release them at nighttime I'm gonna just let them release them during the daytime and they'll probably fly to another farm, but whatever, you know

22:58
So I'm trying to like teach them about not spraying your flowers and vegetables if you don't have to, but I do it in a roundabout way with like cool bugs. Neat. So I have talked to a couple other people that have a farm school or a farm camp or whatever in the last couple of months because it's that time of year. And I've asked both of them and the answers were the same. So I'm going to ask you two.

23:25
Does it just warm your heart when the kids that haven't really been exposed to this particular lifestyle come out and they're just like, wow, I didn't even know any of this. Does it just make your heart sing? Oh yeah, because it's, you know, I think I grew up on Long Island and people are like amazed to hear that. But where I grew up on Long Island...

23:52
was farm country. No one thinks of Long Island as farm country, but where I grew up was all wineries, potato farms, vegetable farms. I grew up doing that. I was never really around livestock because there's no cows on Long Island. If you wanted to ride horses, you had to be a millionaire. I guess that hasn't really changed too much.

24:17
So I remember when I first was around livestock, I was like, oh wow, this is so cool. And I'm sure I asked a million ridiculous questions too and people probably thought they were funny. So I remember what it's like firsthand to have that experience. And I think that I'm guilty of it too though because I'm doing this every day. So I can remember a time when I was a little kid and all I wanted was a pony and we couldn't have a pony.

24:46
And now I have horses and sometimes in the wintertime I'm walking them up to pasture and I'm like, oh my God, this sucks, why did I do this? And then I have to step back and think back to that time. Remember, when you were a little kid and this was all that you could think about and this is all that you wanted and now you have it. So I try to relate back to that time when I'm interacting with kids who might not be exposed to the animals and might not be so accustomed to them as I am.

25:15
And I think that it's good for me too, right? Because it takes me back to the point of appreciation. Because sometimes things just become a chore and you're like, ugh, you know, I'd rather eat lunch than be doing this. But I think that's a good reality check for me. Like, hey, this isn't just all work and you can enjoy these animals. And there was a time where this was all you wanted and now you have it, so be grateful. So I think it's humbling for everybody. Yeah.

25:43
I have a couple things. One is about my dad and about me growing up as a kid with my dad and my mom. And one is about friends that visited this weekend. Don't let me forget the friends part because that's a fun story too. I grew up in Maine and my dad's dad, so my grandpa, lived in mid-state Maine, so like an hour and a half from where I grew up. And he had a farm.

26:11
He didn't actually do a farm. He had a barn and an old farmhouse, and he had a big vegetable garden. Down the road from him, family friends had a dairy farm. And so I grew up being around barn kittens and calves and cows and steers because we would go up to visit grandpa and we would stop in and see the tibets while we were there. So the idea of not being exposed to a farmish life

26:41
foreign concept to me because I was introduced to it from the time I was very little. Right. And then I moved from Steep Falls, Maine, where I grew up, to Portland, Maine with my future husband. And I had never really explored a city before. And Portland, Maine is not a big, it wasn't a big city at the time. It was a big city for the state of Maine. And it was so weird to me.

27:08
wandering around that city and learning the landscape and the layout of the city I then lived in. And I can remember telling my dad when I visited him back at the house that I grew up in that I thought that everyone should live, if they grew up in the country or the woods as I did, they should spend time living in a city. And if they grew up in the city, they should have the chance to live in nature.

27:34
And he looked at me and scoffed and said, I don't think anybody who grew up in nature should live in the city. And I said, I think you're wrong. I think that if you are brought up in one environment, it is not bad to try out another. And he said, I don't want to. I said, well, you don't have to. And that was the end of that. It was fine. And then, it has nothing to do with that story. We had friends down to visit this weekend to pick up a...

28:04
couple barn kittens for their pole barn and they hadn't been here in a couple of years and I hadn't really talked to my friend in over a year because she got a job she's she's a lawyer so she's very busy and so they showed up she gave me big hug we sat down she's like so what's going on we haven't talked and I said well I have barn kittens for you and she said one and I said you want to and she was like yes so she took two of the

28:33
the three that were left. So we have no, the four that were left. So we have two kiddies still here. And I said, I started a podcast. She had no idea. Started a podcast and I explained what I was doing. And she said, I see you guys are doing the farm stand and the farmers market down in Lesor in the summer. So I saw that on Facebook and I was like, yeah. And she welled up, her eyes filled up with tears and she was like, Mary.

28:59
I am so proud of you. You guys are doing exactly what you said you wanted to do five years ago. Right. And I said, well, yes, did you think we were gonna buy 3.1 acres with a farmhouse and a pole barn on it and not do anything with it? Yeah. And she said, well, no, she said, but you guys, it's only been, you've only been here four years in August and look at everything you've accomplished.

29:28
And I hadn't really thought about it because we've been doing the things. You know, when you're in the middle of it, you're not really stepping back and going, oh, I'm so proud of myself. We did that thing. Right. And she didn't know about the grant funding the greenhouse that wasn't here the last time she was visiting. And she said, really nice greenhouse. And I said, yes, and it's a damn good thing I got a grant or it wouldn't be there. And she said, what?

29:54
I said, we got a grant for that. I said, not a penny of that came out of our pocket. And then she had a huge grin on her face and she was like, I'm so proud of you. It's so weird being 54 years old and having someone who's only a year or two older than me saying that to me, you know? Right. Yeah. So it plays into the taking it for granted or the not being aware of what is going on. Right.

30:22
Yeah, I mean, and it's easy to do that, right? Because you're so caught up in scrambling, like, oh, I'm behind for planting season. Oh, I gotta get this, and oh, I gotta get that done. But I think it's so easy for us to just overlook and look at what you have accomplished instead of what you haven't or just being so focused on things that need to get done and not maybe looking at the...

30:48
the big picture of things and that kind of thing. So I think it's important to do that too. It's nice when other people...and that happens to me too because this farm was empty for I think it was like nine years before we moved in. And I mean it was a mess. I remember driving by this place all the time and I'm like, oh, that farm is so cool. Why are they letting it...everything was overgrown and just destroyed.

31:16
And when we moved in, we were just so like, OK, let's get this done. And weed whacking fence line for miles just to be able to get the livestock out because the brush was so overgrown. And people will stop in and be like, oh, it's so nice to see this place become a farm again. And it looks so great. And I'm like, it looks great. I'm like, oh. Thank you, but yes. Yeah.

31:45
All I see is work when I look at this place and this needs to be done and that needs to be done. And I wish I had taken pictures of when we first moved in and I don't know why I didn't probably because I was so focused on fixing everything right away. But it would be nice for me to even just like look at what it was and then look at what we've done and be like, oh, you know, we have come a long way. And I think it's important sometimes to pat yourself on the back because Lord knows we all need it.

32:14
Yes, absolutely. And honestly, I'm going to say congratulations for building up something that needs so much work. I'm proud of you because I know what it takes. My husband, when he's at the farmer's market, he has people come up to him and say, wow, you're doing so many things at your farm. And I don't really consider it a farm, but I guess it's a farm.

32:41
because people drive by our place all the time because it's on a connector road from LaSore to the next town over. And we don't even think about the fact that people notice what we're doing because we feel like we're in a bubble here, you know? Right, yeah. And so he comes home from the farmer's market and he was like, some complete stranger walked up to me at the farmer's market today and said, your place looks great. I'm so glad that someone bought it and is doing something with it.

33:10
Isn't it wild how people like pay attention to that kind of stuff? It honestly kind of creeps me out because I feel like no one's really paying attention and I realized they are. Yeah. That's how like we're on a main road here in town, but we're in a like my it's a 55 mile per hour road. So oftentimes people will like slow down and start creeping by and I'm like, oh no, there's an animal out, right? Because what other reason would they be?

33:40
creeping by or stopping or whatever. And sometimes it's just for that, like for people to look and see what we've done. And it's kind of cool, yet a little creepy, but also cool. Yeah, I've really had to get over my being an a fishbowl thing that bugs me. Because when we lived in town almost four years ago now, we were very close with neighbors and we were on a road that

34:10
was very close to the main street in town and I hated every second of it. I felt like I was constantly being asked, what are you doing now? You know? Right. Right. And so I don't like that feeling. I want to be the fish in the bowl looking out. I don't want to be on the receiving end of the people looking at the fish in the bowl. Right. And

34:33
When I started the podcast, my husband said, you realize that you're going to be talking to people and people are going to hear you talk about things. And I was like, yes. He said, that doesn't freak you out. And I said, no. He said, you are the strangest woman I've ever known. He said, and I love you. I was like, okay, good. I said really, to see them, right? Like they're not in your house. They're not in your backyard, you know. So I think it's a different, it's like a different.

35:02
But it still does freak me out when my husband comes home from the farmers market and says somebody came up to me today and said they love the podcast. I'm like, oh my God, people actually listen to it. This is so strange. It's a good problem to have though, isn't it? Yeah, it's just I forget. I don't forget, but it doesn't register in the front of my brain when I release episodes that people are actually going to listen to them and pay attention and learn stuff.

35:29
I don't know. It's this weird disconnect for me that I want people to listen, I want people to learn, but I can't think about it too hard if that makes any sense at all. Yeah, right, because you're having a conversation really. You know, it's like a free-flowing conversation with your people. Yeah. You know, and I think that's interesting and I think it's important for a lot of people who, you know, want to get into it or

35:59
are thinking about getting into it or are not sure. But we saw all these cool pictures on Instagram, and it's kind of like, eh, it's not all Instagram pictures. You know? Like so. No. No, it's not. And the other thing that's tough sometimes is I don't want to be an evangelist for.

36:25
for homesteading and cottage food producing and crafting. I mean, if you wanna do it, here's the stuff that people do and here's the way they do it. And maybe this will help you get started. If you don't wanna do it, I don't expect you to do it. This is not homesteading, cottage food producing and crafting church. This is...

36:51
This is come sit by the campfire and listen to stories about people who are doing things. Yeah. And it's funny because I hate public speaking. It's something I've struggled with my entire life. Me too. Lately, people have asked me to do all these guest speaker spots and I'm like, ugh, ugh, ugh. You know, and I don't want to say no.

37:17
because like I know some things right and if some things that I happen to know can help somebody then I would like to help people. So I've been doing a lot more of them and a lot of it is with the livestock guardian dogs because that whole thing has just become a disaster in itself. And the way I start every single one of these like guest speaker spots is let me tell you why you.

37:45
don't need a livestock party and dog. And people look at me like I'm nuts and I'm like, you know, I'm honest to a fault sometimes, right? But I want to set up everyone to succeed. And these dogs are not for everyone. And somehow they've become the face of the farm here. Like everyone knows my dogs.

38:12
Mostly because they chase people along the side of the question. So it's interesting, you know, like how the dynamic works where sometimes you're honest, but people don't want to hear that honesty either, you know. So I kind of say what I have to say and then people are going to choose to do what they're going to choose to do.

38:42
Regardless. Yes. And you're an East Coast girl. Of course you're honest to a fault. I get that all the time. You don't lie. I'm like, nope. If you ask me if that dress looks good on you and it doesn't, I'm going to say I really like the pattern. I really liked the design. I really liked the way it's cut. I'm never going to tell you. It makes you look terrible, but I'm also not going to, I'm not going to lie, but I'm not going to not lie. So.

39:10
And that, you know, like the main reason I don't lie is because one, I'm not good at it. And I forget. So, so like, I'll tell my kids something sometimes because they're like annoying me. Say something. And then later I forgot that I said it and then they'll catch me in it. And then I'm like, oh, okay. So I just like, don't I don't even bother to try to.

39:39
This is what it is. Like, I'm just saying, you know? Get a dog and don't get a dog. I don't know anymore. Yes, I just don't have the energy to deal with it. No. And honestly, there's a joke about does this, do these jeans make my ass look fat? And the punch line is no, your ass makes your ass look fat? I can't be that blunt, but I am darn close sometimes. Yeah.

40:09
Speaking of the guardian livestock dogs, I really would have loved to have gotten a great Pyrenees because I think that they are big loves and they're beautiful and a great Pyrenees puppy would have been amazing. However, I am not in any way shape or form prepared to raise that dog to 120 pounds. So we ended up getting a mini Australian Shepherd instead.

40:38
She's a herding dog. She doesn't actually have a job because we don't have anything for her to herd. But smartest freaking thing we ever did because she's only 35 pounds. She is very calm when she's in the house. And when she gets outside, she loves to run and play. Smartest choice ever made regarding an animal for us. Yes, yes. But that having been said, I do love the Greeks.

41:04
Pyrenees, I love the Anatolian, whatever they are. Yep. Yeah. So I have the livestock guardian dogs. I don't know if you can hear this dog barking in the background. It's my neighbor's dog over a mile away. He's got a bunch of healers and the dog has been barking the entire time. But I have like herding dogs. And then I have...

41:33
the working livestock dogs and they don't ever intermingle because the livestock dogs will kill the herding dogs like hands down. Really? Oh yeah, yeah because they're not going, they know who they are but the herding dogs are not allowed to actually herd anything. If I were to put a collie or I have an Australian shepherd as well, if I were to put them in there and they were to start moving my sheep, that's a threat.

42:02
to the flock. Oh, yeah. So they would expel the dog immediately. Wow. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot to having the dogs and even I had a real scary incident last about two weeks ago with a customer that was here. And my guard dogs, they're they're into separate

42:32
The gate is right down by the farm store, but it's all electric fenced. Like they're hot wired in like Jurassic Park. They're not getting out. And sometimes customers pull up to the store and they have their pet dogs waiting in the car or whatever. And this always starts an issue, right? Because the pet dogs are tough from inside the car. They start barking. Then my guys come down and it's war of the barks and whatever.

43:01
never really thought too much about it. Two weeks ago, I had a customer come in and she was chit chatting with me inside the store for a bit. I didn't realize she had her husky and her son in the car. So she left or I thought she left and I was checking out another customer and I hear like horrific screaming from outside. It was the kind of screaming where you just drop everything and run because you know it's something bad, right? So I charge out of the

43:31
Her husky is in my pasture and has one of my sheep by the throat. I guess when she had gotten into the car, the dog had slipped out. I've had huskies growing up, they're super prey drive-y. If you have a small animal or something, they're going to probably try to kill it. All of mine were like that. It took the blast from my electric fence, went underneath, was chasing the sheep.

43:58
grabbed one by the throat and my guys were up top. So I saw them, there's five of them in there. I'm like, oh God, they're charging down and we've clocked my lead female at 32 miles an hour alongside the road. So the dog sees that my guard dogs are coming and now the dog's like, oh God. So he runs into my barn. I can't run fast, you know?

44:23
So my dogs get into the barn, they have the dogs surrounded, and they were just gonna rip this dog to pieces. I hopped in the middle, and that was, I probably could have gotten myself ripped up pretty good. And I picked up this dog, I don't know how I did it. I'm 5'2", like I'm not. I lifted this husky up over my head, and my husband had come running in behind me. I threw this dog, I don't know how I did it.

44:50
Maybe it was the adrenaline or whatever. And I threw the dog to my husband. I was like, get this thing out of here. So I checked, you know, I went right to checking my sheep and thankfully they hadn't been shorn yet. And I was late this year, maybe for a reason. So there was damage to the sheep or anything like that. But it really, that was the first incident I've had like that and I've had these dogs for almost nine years. And that was the first.

45:17
like security breach that we've really ever had where the dogs were put to the test, you know? I mean, they talk a good game behind the fence, but I've never had something come in like that and attack, like blatantly attack my sheep. So it was nice to see that push come to shove. All this dog food isn't wasted and they're going to actually... Yup. They're actually going to do the job that they're supposed to do, yes. How long did it take you to stop shaking that day?

45:47
Oh God, it was like, it was like at least an hour and a half. And then I was like, that's it. You know, I used to allow people to come to the festivals. We'd walk the dogs up into horse stalls and stuff like that. So I would allow people to bring leash dogs here and stuff like that. And now I'm like, that's stupid idea. You know, just because you don't know what's going to happen or what can happen or somebody's dog gets loose. So now I'm like, strict no dog policy on the farm.

46:16
Which stinks because, you know, I am a dog person, but it's not fair to my dogs, right, to have them riled up all the time from people bringing dogs here. And then, you know, if something were to happen, if they had killed that dog, can you imagine the face of like propaganda against me? My dogs would probably all be euthanized. They'd be deemed dangerous. And can you believe, you know, that kind of thing. So I feel like I have to do with right to protect my own dogs.

46:46
even though they're doing the job they're supposed to be doing. It's wild. Yes, it's a liability issue. And honestly, every place like yours and like mine has liability issues. We ended up getting farm insurance and made our place an LLC so that we have protections and so that we can make sure that the people who come on the farm are protected too. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Like I would not sell my mother a tomato.

47:16
insurance because you just don't know, you know, and let's say people did something and get sick from something else but they also got a tomato from you that day, like they're coming for you, you know, it's a it's a different time where people are just looking for the quick buck, you know, type thing, so I think it's very smart to be protected but there's a lot of great areas.

47:48
There sure is. The other part is that I want people to feel safe in coming into our property to the farm stand. Right. And so that LLC on the end of the business name implies that we take it seriously. Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So that helps. You have to protect yourself. You have to. Because anytime you're open to the public, like I'm letting people cut their own flowers for God's sake.

48:18
They're up here with sharp objects. You know what I mean? So it's like so many things could potentially go wrong that you have to, you really have to. So. Yep. I'm sitting here listening to you and thinking about everything we talked about. And I think that the tag on this one's going to be the realities of farming and homesteading.

48:46
Yes, exactly. Because it's true. There's a lot going on all the time. Yes. The reality is, it can be the most wonderful thing ever, but it can also be a lot. Yes. All right, Lori, thank you so much for your time and your thoughts and your stories. I loved your stories. Thank you so much. Have a great day. All right.