Fameflower Farm

Today I'm talking with Sara at Fameflower Farm. You can also follow on Facebook.

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00:00
This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Sara at Fameflower Farm. How are you, Sarah? I'm doing good. Thanks. How about you? I'm good. You're in Tennessee? Yes, middle Tennessee, not too far from Nashville. Oh, nice.

00:26
All right, well, tell me about yourself and what you do at Fameflower Farm. Okay, so we are a mini farm and we've been at this little homestead mini farm thing for about a decade now. And we, my husband and I moved here from the Chicagoland area with the ultimate goal of growing and raising as much of our own food as possible. We moved from a condo with zero land whatsoever. So it was a huge shift to almost 17 acres in Middle Tennessee.

00:56
And you know, we thought it'd be easy-ish to figure it all out. And we're learning as we go that there's just so many things and everything has a big learning curve, but we love the lifestyle, the homesteading lifestyle and are really happy we have moved here and are doing all the things. We've got a bunch of different animals, huge garden and permaculture food forest and probably other things I'm forgetting.

01:23
Oh, that's such a good question. Naming our farm was such a challenge. So our last name is Chodal, but it's spelled with a C-H, super hard to pronounce. So we figured that's out. We're not gonna use that name. And a lot of people name their homes that are farms based on their names. So since that was out, we had to go with something else. And we were looking for a bunch of different names and we discovered we are on limestone and we're in an area of the country that has some endangered plant species. We happen to have limestone glades on our property that grow maybe

01:51
up to 10 different types of endangered plant species. The fameflower is one of those. And it sounded kind of cool, fameflower farm, three Fs, so we went with her. So what is a fameflower? It's a tiny little, it almost looks like a succulent with its leaves and it has a very beautiful, bright, almost fuchsia color of flower that only blooms in the afternoons in the summer.

02:16
And it's an endangered plant species, so it's not found everywhere. It's challenging to find. And since we have it on our property, you know, that's pretty cool. Very nice. I'm always excited to hear about flowers that I don't know about yet. It makes me grin. Okay. So I really, I really want to talk about the dogs. And I mentioned this beforehand before we started recording.

02:41
We have a mini Australian shepherd named Maggie that I talk about ad nauseam on the podcast. I try hard not to talk about her. So that's what we have. We have a dog. Her job is to be a watchdog. That is her only job. She does it really well to the point of doing it too well. So you raise Pyrenees poodle crosses. And they're gorgeous.

03:08
But I need to know more about why that's a good mix. Okay, so we had a... Do you want me to tell you how I got into this whole dog thing to begin with? Yes, please. Okay, so we, both my husband and I have had dogs our whole lives. And we had, when we moved here, we had an Aussie poo, so Australian Shepherd poodle mix. He is an F2B, which means he's got a lot of poodle in him, essentially.

03:37
And then we also had a skipper keep poodle mix. So we already loved poodle mixes. Those two dogs are just house dogs, cute, friendly, whatever. Nothing that they're gonna have work to do. And then we had a big chicken loss with a predator. So we got a great Pyrenees to guard our flock. As our great Pyrenees grows, she's just a beautiful, wonderful, amazing dog. And my mom, who had previously bred dogs like 30 years ago, kept saying Bishop, that's her name, is beautiful. You should breed her.

04:06
And I told her I wasn't really sure that that was something I wanted to do because, you know, there's lots of dogs that need rescued and I don't know if I want to become a dog breeder. And then my mother-in-law also said she really wanted a dog and would love to have a dog if Bishop had babies. And they both had met our poodle mixes and everyone that we know likes the poodle mixes. I know poodle mixes are not for everybody, but they are for us. So we decided to do a litter with Bishop and a standard poodle.

04:34
my mom's water aerobics instructor happened to have a health-tested standard poodle available to be the dad. So it just all kind of came together perfectly and he was a very beautiful, calm-ish for a poodle, standard poodle. So it was all wonderful, had the first litter, and my mother-in-law ended up getting one of those puppies once she worked through some health issues because that kind of delayed getting her puppy, but then everybody else got puppies and they all loved them. And one of the reasons I think they love the puppy so much is because

05:04
When we first bred the dog, I posted about it on Instagram, and somebody commented and said, have you looked into puppy culture? That's a training program that you can do as a breeder. And I had never heard of it, have had dogs my whole life. I had no idea the breeder could actually start doing things with the puppy to make them a more calm, confident, wonderful family dog as they grew. So we looked into the program, got it, and started implementing it right away.

05:32
You can start on day three of the puppy's life doing certain things with them. And it just makes the most amazing puppies. So after that first litter, we had so much positive feedback, we decided to continue to breed the periodoodle puppies. So ours are an F1 generation, meaning that the mom is a full great Pyrenees and the dad is a full standard poodle. So first generation F1 are periodoodles. There are other options available out there, of course, that have more poodle in them for less shedding.

06:01
but we really like the F1s because they still maintain some of those great Pyrenees traits. And they're just so sweet, loving. They aren't necessarily the best guardian dogs like a full great Pyrenees would be, but they are such amazing family dogs. And as we kept one of the puppies from the first litter, she's now almost three and she exhibits some natural guarding of our kids.

06:27
So she'll put herself between other people if she's concerned about the other people and our kids. It's really amazing to watch. Okay, so here's what I know about poodles. Zero. I know nothing about poodles. I have seen them. I don't think I've ever pet one. I don't think I've ever met a poodle. Okay. I have met Pyrenees dogs, many, and they are lovely animals.

06:53
The only issue that I have heard about with Pyrenees is that they like to wander. And there's one that lives about eight miles down the road from us. His name is Yukon. And he came to visit us the first summer after we moved in four years ago. And my dog, I just let her outside and she's on a lead all the time because we have a big busy road outside and she yipped.

07:20
And she was looking towards the side of the house and I couldn't see her on the corner, but she could. And I was like, what is over there? So I step around and there's this big great Pyrenees dog. And I was like, hi buddy, what are you doing? And he just trotted over and introduced himself wagging his tail. I was like, okay, at least you're friendly. And then he had to go check out Maggie. And Maggie is a mini Australian shepherd. She weighed maybe 25 pounds at the time. So

07:49
You can imagine this little black tri, mini Australian shepherd and this probably 90 pound great parent, his dog introducing themselves. I was like, please don't kill each other. And come to find out the owners had tried many, many things to make Yukon stay home and none of them worked except that we haven't seen him this summer. So either their solution is working, keeping him on his property.

08:18
or he's no longer with us and we don't know which. So, Pyrenees like to wander. We have friends that own a couple and they wander as well. Yes. So tell me about poodles. What are the traits for poodles? So the poodle is known for being very intelligent. If you look at the dog intelligent charts, you'll oftentimes see poodle at the very top. I normally see them as the second most intelligent dog, which is awesome for training.

08:48
They also, if you look at their history, they are known for doing just about everything a dog has ever done to help humans, such as even retrieving and guarding and doing service dog duties. The list just goes on and on and on of things that they have been able to do for humans, depending on what you look at, since there's just so much information out there about everything. The other thing they can be known for is being a little high strung and maybe a little bit

09:15
neurotic at times, some of the standard poodles or poodles in general. They also are known for not shedding, of course. So that's, I think, where the breeding of poodles with other dogs has come to become more popular because people want a specific dog breed, but then they don't want the shedding. So they mix the poodle and that breed and then they get less shedding. So that's nice.

09:45
experienced the fact that great Pyrenees dogs tend to be pretty calm, pretty laid back. Yes. And so does that kind of mitigate the neuroticness of the poodle? I think yes. And we also, when we're breeding, we're looking for a dad dog that is on the calmer end of the poodle spectrum. So breeding for temperament, I think, is really important because you want to get those traits passed along. And then also with the puppy culture stuff that we do when they're young.

10:15
We play the puppies classical music, and that's been shown in studies to calm them, not only as puppies, but through their lifetime. So we're doing things to help reduce any type of neurotic tendencies that any puppy might have. So we're already working with them from a very young age to help get them to be pretty chill. And we have had feedback from the majority of our puppy owners now saying, this is the calmest dog I've ever had.

10:42
is this really a puppy? She seems so old, she's an old soul, that type of thing, because they are calmer with all the training and then also that great Pyrenees jeans. So you're really helping out the new owners before they even get their puppy, because you're training them from three days old. That is the goal, yes. So what really sold me on the puppy culture thing was when I looked at pictures and I saw a picture of

11:09
I think it was five week old puppies and they were all sitting still staring at the person. And I thought, yes, that is what I want. It's amazing. And there's a ton of other stuff that goes into it. But to get them to do that is really not that difficult. As long as you are consistent and you work with the dogs when they're little, they can obey and just be much more calm than a regular puppy that doesn't have that type of upbringing.

11:39
It's just we don't give them treats or attention unless they are sitting. And they learn it so fast when they're little. It's kind of like kids, you know, they learn stuff really, really fast. Puppies learn really, really fast too. You don't have to tell them multiple times. Just do it a few times and then all of a sudden they have figured it out and they are sitting whenever they see you because they know that you're gonna give them attention or the food or whatever it is quicker if they sit. Yep. I'm gonna talk for a minute or two about what we did with Maggie because we had never had any...

12:08
We'd never had a puppy. In the 20 something years, my husband and I have been together. We didn't have room for a dog. We didn't have a yard for a dog. We did not have a dog. And friends of ours had the mom and dad, Minnie Australian Shepherd, and she, the female got pregnant and they, this was the first ever litter from the female that they'd experienced.

12:38
our friends, you know, they post on their Facebook page and I was, I messaged Jean and I said, I would, we would love to have one of those puppies. We're moving to a 3.1 acre property here soon. And that seems like more enough room for a mini Australian shepherd. And I think when I messaged her, she thought that I was just like, Oh, it would be nice to have one. So it got down to where the puppies were.

13:04
were starting to find homes and she posted and she said, we have two left if you want one, message me. And it was just a general post on Facebook. And I messaged her immediately and I said, I wasn't joking, how much are they? And she told me and I was like, cool, I want one. And she sent me a picture, two black tri puppies looked almost identical, both female. And she said, which one do you want?

13:29
And I said, I have no idea they look exactly like. And she said, just pick one. I said, the one on the right in the picture. And she was like, do you have a name in mind? And I said, Maggie. And she said, okay, we will be calling her Maggie from now on, so she learns her name. Yeah. So Maggie knew her name long before we picked her up.

13:48
So, Diesel and Daisy, Maggie's parents, the dog parents, they were outdoor dogs. They are farm dogs, they are working dogs. So the puppies spent a ton of time outside. So, Maggie was practically potty trained before we even got her. That helped too. Now, this dog had seven kids who were around all the time because Jean and her husband have seven kids. And so,

14:17
Maggie was terribly socialized to children and to her litter mates, but she wasn't terribly socialized to being confined and she wasn't socialized to other people. So when we brought her home, we were trying to crate train her. We lasted six nights and we got no sleep. That dog cried and screeched and barked all night long for six nights in a row and we gave up and brought her to bed with us, which was a mistake. It's fine. She's small.

14:47
Yeah. So, um, within a week of her coming home, I was trying to teach her sit, because I didn't know how to train a dog. I'd never had a puppy. And we had some little treats that she really liked. And, and I, I basically put the treat in my fingertips and held it above her head and said, sit, and as soon as she sat down, cause she lifted her head up, I would give her the treat took five minutes. This dog has known sit and lay down since.

15:16
And she thinks that sit means sit and lay down all in one motion. So if you say sit, she's going to sit down and then she lays down, which is very, very cute. She's, she's been terribly trainable. And once she hit about three, she's four now. Once she hit about three, she did it. She decided that her crate is her favorite place in the world. Go fit. So if she's going to lay down and take a nap, she goes in the crate.

15:45
And she's also old enough now to have the run of the house at night. So she doesn't need to go in her crate and have the door shut. So she trained herself for the crate three years later. Go fig. But the one thing that I can say about having a puppy and never having had a puppy before is the things that we tried to do was number one, always talk to her in an upbeat, gentle voice from the very beginning.

16:14
Never yell at her if we could avoid it. I mean, if she was in danger, of course we were gonna yell, but that didn't happen. So she's never really been yelled at in panic or anger. And never ever hit a dog, ever. I agree, yep. Because it teaches them fear and it breaks their spirit. You should not hit a dog. The old thing about taking a rolled up newspaper and swatting a dog, don't do that. It doesn't help. So.

16:44
Those are my hints on raising a puppy since I'm very new at it. What are your hints? I mean, you're doing the puppy thing that you were talking about, but what have you learned? Yeah, I totally agree with not hitting a dog and the puppy culture program talks about that a lot as well. They actually have another program for people when they first bring a dog home. So there's one for breeding breeders and then there's also one for when the dog first comes or the puppy first comes home with you.

17:13
I think that's extremely useful as well. I think all their information is amazing. So getting that and then preparing for the puppy before it enters your home is always really helpful to have all the things on hand. It doesn't need a ton of things, but a crate is very helpful, I think. I know it didn't work out so well for Maggie, but for the most part, you know, crate training works very, very well. That's one of the things that we do as breeders with the Puppy Culture Program is we introduce the crate to every puppy.

17:40
multiple times before they go home. They actually have a crate in their area just so they can go in and out of it. We put treats in there. We'll put part of their food in there sometimes. We'll have them have meals in there just so they're used to that confined space because our dogs, our puppies are also born outside but they come inside every day, many times a day once they're old enough and they can see in here because before they can see in here it's not really useful. And they're with mama a lot then. But since our mama dog is an outside dog, she never comes inside. So they don't come inside until they are

18:10
able to see and hear, which is around three weeks old. Yeah, Maggie was born inside. She was in the house. But as soon as she could see and hear and was walking well, the puppies would go out with mom and dad. So I'm not at all upset that Maggie was an outside dog for a while when she was still with the mom and dad dog. That's totally cool. Yeah. Go ahead. You were saying. Oh yeah.

18:41
Yeah, so we just try to get all them used to as many things as possible before they go home with their owner, their human parents. And we also bring people over once the puppies are old enough to see and hear and they're able to be socialized and mama dog's okay with it. Because the puppy culture program talks about how dogs do not generalize. So even if they see a person and they're used to a person, they're not necessarily going to...

19:08
correlate that with another person. So they need to see as many different size, shape, color, hairdos, hats, shoes, clothing, all the different things so they get used to all of those things because they're not going to generalize from one thing to the next. So we specifically have people come over to show them different types of people and different clothing styles and different hats and different... I have my kids put on costumes, so they get used to costumes and different noises. So we're trying to get them used to all that stuff.

19:38
And then when the parents do first bring their puppy home, if there's anything that they do that's specific to their lifestyle that they want their dog to be very used to, let's say they have a boat or an RV, or they go to a gym every day and they do gymnastics or taekwondo or whatever, and they want the dog to come with them, I always recommend taking the puppy with them to as many of those things as possible before they hit 12 weeks, because they say that 12 weeks is the...

20:07
critical socialization period. And after 12 weeks, they can definitely learn new things. It just will take longer. So it takes one positive or negative thing to happen to the puppy before 12 weeks, and it should be imprinted in their brain for the rest of their life. And you can obviously help them if something negative does happen, but if it's a positive experience, then it's way easier to say, okay, this is our boat, and we go on the boat all the time, and you like the boat, and it's great, and you saw it before you were 12 weeks old, and now you're not scared of it, that type of thing.

20:36
Wow, I didn't know it was before 12 weeks. That's good to know. The other thing that we learned when we brought Maggie home is that puppies grieve. They grieve losing their litter mates. She was so sad that first three days. I mean, she was okay, but she was just very down. And I was like, did we buy a dud puppy? She's not very bouncy.

21:05
And then after about a week, she livened up. She was eating fine. That's the other thing is that they're weird about eating if they're grieving. Oh. So we had to basically feed her food out of our fingers for the first three or four days because she was just so sad. Oh my goodness. It was terrible, yeah. And I think she missed her human kids too. Mm, interesting. Yeah, when we took her back over,

21:35
to visit. And I asked before we did it, I was like, Jean, do you think that Maggie would recognize Daisy and Diesel if we brought her back over? And she was like, I have no idea, but you're welcome to bring her over. I'd love to see her. So we took Maggie over to see them. And the mama dog, Daisy, she was very interested in Maggie, but I'm not sure that she realized that Maggie was her kid. But the most interesting thing of all is that

22:04
My friend Jean would give each of the kids a puppy to basically kind of take care of while they were little. Yeah. Kids would have some responsibility for that particular puppy. And come to find out Maggie's puppy name was Lulu. And one of Jean's teenage sons was in charge of Lulu, who eventually became our dog Maggie. And he was standing off the side watching Maggie and I said,

22:32
I said, do you want her to come to you? And he was like, yeah. And he scooched down. And I said, Maggie, it's okay. And she looked at me like, I don't know him. And he said, it's okay, Lulu, come here. And her ears perked up, her face changed, and she ran over to him and gave him the biggest dog hug I've ever seen in my life. Jean and I cried, no joke. No joke, just lost it.

23:02
I was like, can I hug you? She's like, yeah, I need a hug. I'm like, okay. And Maggie immediately, as soon as she heard that first name and his tone of voice, she knew who he was. So it's amazing to me what they remember, but what they don't remember as well. Yes, for sure. We have had a number of puppies come back and either we puppy set them or just came to visit and mama dog doesn't.

23:29
really seem to care. Some of them she actually doesn't seem to like that much and would prefer them to not be near her. But most of them she's like, oh it's another dog, you know, we can play and it's fine. Others she's like, well you're fine but I'm not really caring too much that you're here. She doesn't seem to recognize them at all. But they all seem to recognize me. I spend the most time with the puppies. So they definitely seem to remember me to some extent and it's really cool to see. Yeah, it's, I wonder...

23:58
I really wonder if maybe the reason the mama dogs don't recognize their offspring later is because the last time they saw them, they were little, they still looked like puppies, they still smelled like where they live and they still smelled like mom. And then if you bring them back six months later, they're dogs, they don't smell like mom anymore, they don't smell like where mom lives anymore. So maybe that's part of it? Oh, I definitely think it could be.

24:26
And our mama dog, she's an amazing mother, but after a while, you know, she's like, it's been six weeks of this whole nursing thing and I'm really ready for a break. Especially when there's, we've had, she had a litter of 11 for her first litter. She was done with them. She was ready to go back to work and be the guardian dog and be done being mom. It was too much. She was done. There was lots of them jumping on her all the time whenever she saw them. Oh yeah, absolutely.

24:54
Daisy, Maggie's mom, she wants to be back outside running when the hups are about, from what Jean told me, from about four to six weeks old. And she won't leave those puppies that first week. She is right in the welping kennel or whatever it's called. And she'll go out to pee and number two. But that's about it. And the day that we picked up Maggie.

25:24
Maggie was a day shy of eight weeks old. She was one of the last puppies to leave. And, uh, Jean told me that day that that was the first day that Daisy had really been out and running around with Diesel. Oh, wow. The daddy dog and really just letting the puppies be while she, she went and ran and checked out the farm and, you know, got reacclimated to it. So she was a really good mom. That first litter, that was the first litter she'd ever had.

25:54
So yeah, I'm so glad that you were cool with talking about dogs today, because I've been wanting to talk about this in depth for a while, and I tried to reach out to a couple people who breed Australian Shepherds, but I haven't gotten any response back, because I wanted to know more about that particular breed. But I think that dogs in general, if you treat them well, if you aren't mean to them, if you don't teach them, train them,

26:23
to be mean, to be attack dogs, you can have a wonderful animal and it doesn't matter what the breed is. That's my take on it. I tend to agree with that, especially if they have a good start to life because they can get real scared real fast if something bad happens when they're little. So yeah, just treat them well and positive reinforcement. The puppy culture thing, when I was going through it and every time I reacclimate before we have a litter and it just reminds me of a toddler.

26:49
I just think of these little puppies as toddlers. You set them up for success. You give them a yes space. You give them things that they can have. And they just do great. I feel like they become little people in puppy suits. Maggie has all these expressions and yips and barks and whines and whistles that she does to tell me what she needs. And as long as I'm paying attention, she does great.

27:17
It's when I drop the ball and I'm not listening to what she's telling me that things happen. Yeah, I would agree with that too. A lot of the things that the dogs do that you may not like are generally because there wasn't enough attention being paid. It's a lot, so I understand that happens sometimes, but if you can pay attention to them, especially with potty training and stuff, you see their cues, take them outside, less accidents. Uh-huh, yes, absolutely. And that actually leads me to my next thing.

27:48
If somebody's gonna get a puppy, and I am not a dog trainer, I'm just going from the experience we've had with the one dog that we got when she was a day shy of eight weeks old. You can't just get a puppy, put them in a crate for eight hours a day, take them out, and let them be out with you for a couple hours and expect to be able to put them back in the crate all night because you're going to ruin that dog. Yeah, they need a lot more.

28:16
A lot more than that. They need time. They need attention. They need training. They need love. You can't just put them in a box. That's not how that works. No, definitely not. We actually send a potty training and crate training document to puppy parents before they bring their dog home to give them some ideas of how to potty train and how often to be taking them out and things like that. A little sample schedule just to get some thoughts started and kind of get some ideas going.

28:46
Yeah, I was told that the pups can hold it as it were for an hour for every month they are old and that is not necessarily true for a four week old puppy. A four week old puppy is going to pee when it needs to pee, end of story, it doesn't matter where it is. But basically when you bring them home at hopefully eight to ten weeks old, they're good for about an hour. And then as they get older, once they're a year old.

29:16
They can probably hold it for eight hours and asking them to hold it for more than eight hours is a little much. I think eight hours is a good amount for an older dog and any dog really. As they get older, some of them can hold it for so long. We have had puppies go home and they're sleeping through the night in a week or two. These are a bigger dog though, so they've got a bigger bladder. When they go home, maybe they're, oh gosh, is it 10 pounds?

29:45
good size and they grow to be between 70 to 100 pounds. So they're a larger dog with a larger bladder so they can hold it for longer. But yeah, ours will, our puppies, we've heard reports back that they slept through the night starting quite soon. And I'm always very happy to hear that because I want them to have a really successful integration into their new family. That must be so nice. Maggie was five pounds when we brought her home and she's 35 pounds now.

30:08
And I'm telling you, we would have been totally cool with creating her at night from the beginning, but she was not totally cool with that at all. Oh yeah, I get it. So, yeah. So, I love that you're, this is gonna sound crazy. I love that you are doing this, but I also love that it looks like you only let her have one litter a year. Yes, we just do one litter per year. So she...

30:37
She had a litter and then we gave her a break. There's a heat cycle about every six to seven months. So she'll have another heat cycle after that litter. And then the following heat cycle is when she got bred again. And so she's had three litters so far. She will be having her fourth and final litter next year. So we don't want her to be too old, you know, when she has more litters. So she'll be done after next year. And we're hopefully gonna have another mama dog step in after that. So you are very, very purposeful and directed

31:07
this. This isn't about making lots of money. This is you're doing this because you love it. Yeah, we love it and we want to be able to provide good family dogs for people, especially now that we have young kids. I appreciate the fact that I feel comfortable with these dogs going to a home with children. And I think rescuing is an awesome thing, but I also have many friends who have been attacked by their rescue dogs. And if that were to be a child that got attacked, that is just too much of a worry in my mind.

31:35
I know some people are really great at training and that works well for them, but I want to be able to provide that for people to have access to a great family dog for them and their family. Yeah. And I feel like if you're going to rescue a dog, I think that's a noble thing to do. But I also think that you need to know about dogs. You need to understand dog's cues. You need to understand how to work with them and work them through issues. And we were not those people.

32:03
When we talked about getting a dog for our place, we really wanted to get a puppy because that way if there were issues, we caused the issues. We knew where it came from and we would figure out how to fix it. I did not want to go get a three-year-old dog from the Humane Society that I didn't know, that didn't know me, and they had no background on it because we were not educated enough about that to help.

32:33
that dog. Yeah, I understand that. Yep. So, um, the one of the last things I will share about Maggie, because I'm allowed to talk about Maggie today, is that she's she's gorgeous. She is she is perfect. She is the epitome of a black tri Australian shepherd, except that she's a mini. She looks exactly like a normal Australian shepherd. She's just small.

33:03
It doesn't look like they took an Australian shepherd and bred her with a chihuahua. That's not how that worked. And I would have loved to let Maggie have babies. The reason we didn't do that is because I don't want to be in the dog breeding business. And what would have happened is we would have let her have puppies and I would have wanted to do it every year like you do, because I love puppies. The problem with breeding puppies is that you have to find homes for them.

33:32
And you have to let them go to those homes. And I would have just cried every single time. It's funny, people ask me that all the time. How do you let them go? And I always say, I don't have enough hands. You know, you're gonna have nine puppies left. I can't pet all of them at once. There's too many. They need to go somewhere else where there's enough hands to love them. Yep, I still would have sobbed every time though. Yeah. And I am so in love with this dog.

33:59
that if anything had happened to her having puppies, I would have shot myself. You know, I just, I wouldn't have ever been able to forgive myself. So she was spayed at six months. Okay. And she will never have puppies. So she will basically always be my puppy until she's no longer with us. And I don't know if we're ever gonna get one again. Not that kind, not that breed. She's a very laid back.

34:28
many Australian shepherds. She's very calm when she's in the house. However, we got her during COVID. We could not socialize her because we weren't going anywhere. So the dog wasn't going anywhere. And every time new people come, she barks her head off. She eventually decides they're okay and they're her friend, but it takes her a little bit. So I'm hoping that with the next puppy, maybe a lab, maybe. We'll see. Not a Pyrenees though. They're too big.

34:58
But they're very big, yeah, and they do love to be outside. I know they can't be house dogs, but man, do they love to be outside. They're beautiful. I mean, if I was 24 and still had the energy that I had when I was 24 and we had 3.1 acres, I might consider a Pyrenees. But I'm 54 and I don't have the energy to run and play with a Pyrenees and I would want to run and play with it. Yeah.

35:26
not happening in my lifetime. However, I do love them. They are beautiful. And when my friends, when we go to our friend's house, I'm always petting the male. The female is kind of skittish, but the male is really friendly. And he's so funny. He chuffs. You know, he does that, that kind of, it's like a snort except it's just in your mouth. He chuffs to say hi. And I'm like, I'm chuffed to see you too.

35:53
So anyway, I don't know, I wanted to talk about, Maggie, I wanted to hear about your dogs and why you're doing it, and I know it's because you love doing it. And I wanted to talk about that you really have to do certain things when they're puppies if you want a good dog on the other side. So I think we covered that today. Definitely. And I appreciate you indulging me. I have been desperately wanting to talk about puppies with someone who knows what they're talking about too.

36:22
Yeah, we love the puppies so much. It's so fun to have them and see them grow and learn and get it. Just so cute when you see it clicking in their heads. Oh man, cutest little things ever. And their little floppy puppy ears and head when you pet them. So, so cute. Oh yeah, do the Pyrenees do the head cock, the turning their head to the side when they're listening? Um, I would say sometimes, yeah. Not as much as our Skipperkey Poodle mix. He was...

36:49
the king of head cocking. He was constantly looking at you trying to figure out what you were saying. He had those big ears sticking up that were kind of twisting like satellites or something. So they don't quite fit. The two big Pyrenees traits that I think are so cute in most situations, they hug, which is not cute when they're dirty, but they will literally stand there and hook you. And a lot of the periododal dogs that we have that have grown up, they also will do the hugging with them. They put their arms around you and hook you. And then they also smile.

37:19
When they see you, they will give you the big smile. It's adorable. Yeah. Maggie smiles. And at first I thought it, at first I thought it was just bearing her teeth. And then I saw, and then I saw her bear her teeth and I was like, Oh, that's different, they're different things. Yep. It's so cute when they smile at you. And then when they're bad, they give you that smile like oopsies. I did something bad. Yeah. Maggie has the, the rosebud ears. So her ears don't stand up. They're, they're down.

37:49
Okay. And when she thinks she's done something she's not supposed to do, she lays them back flat, you know, like toward her neck. Yeah. And she hasn't actually done anything wrong. She just thinks maybe she has. And I'm like, no, honey, it's okay. And she looks at me and she gives me the actual smile and she brings them back forward. And I'm like, okay, we're good. It's so weird. They...

38:16
there are certain tones of voice that Maggie hears and she thinks that she's maybe stepped in it, you know? Oh, I see, yeah. And I'm like, nobody is upset with you. I don't know why you're doing that. The period that we kept, her name is Ziva, she will give us that smile in her head down when she's jumped up on the counter and grabbed something out of the compost bin when we were gone. So when I come in and she's doing that, I'm thinking to myself, is that compost on the floor again?

38:45
And normally it is because she has jumped up there and I left it in the wrong spot. So yeah. Yeah. And that's probably a good way to end this. If you're going to have a puppy that you're going to grow into a full-grown dog as your pet, you have to make sure that you're setting them up for success. Oh yeah. Definitely. And I'm not saying you didn't by leaving the compost or whatever too close to the edge, but.

39:14
But when we moved in here, we got Maggie like a month later. So we hadn't even fully unpacked our home yet. So there was very little for her to get into, which worked out great because there was nothing for her to eat or get choked on or trip over. And if we thought about bringing a puppy in this house right now, we've been here for years, I would have to, I'd have to completely clean my house from top to bottom to get a puppy again.

39:43
Yeah, they like to chew on things. It's what puppies do. They learn with their mouth and they lose their teeth. And their teeth, yeah. They teeth from basically like nine weeks until about six, seven months old. And all they want to do is chew. Yep. Yep, yep, yep. Lots of chew toys are good. Uh-huh. And they'll chew on you, too.

40:08
If you let them, best to not let them go. I always switch. If a puppy puts its mouth on my hand or my arm or anything, I just grab something else and shove it in its mouth. You want to bite? Here's a stick to bite on. Here's a toy to bite on. Here's something you can bite on. Yeah. And if you look up how to stop a puppy from biting you, it says make an ouch noise. That doesn't do any good. We did that and Maggie would just be like, oh, more play now. Let's go. Right. Yeah. I switch them for something that they can have. Uh-huh. Yeah.

40:37
And the other thing that really worked for us is we put white vinegar and apple cider vinegar in a spray bottle. And she wanted to chew the corners of our futon mattress on our futon couch. And she did. She chewed the corner pretty good. And I finally found out about this mix and it's called Bitter Apple. It's apple cider vinegar and white distilled vinegar. And you put it half and half in a spray bottle. You shake it up. Let it settle.

41:06
and then you spray it on whatever you don't want them to chew. Oh, okay. And she hated the smell of it. The minute I sprayed that stuff anywhere, she would go and lay down and doesn't hurt them. They just don't like the scent. And she loved the taste of vinegar. Like she'd go over and lick the couch, but she would not chew on it. Interesting. It was really weird. So.

41:32
We use that and we still use it. If she's being crazy for no obvious reason, like she's been fed, she's been watered, she's been outside, all the things, we just spray the vinegar in the air and she goes and lays down. I'm like, good girl. That's a great way. I love it. Thank you. Yeah. She doesn't get hurt and it doesn't mess up her brain or her nasal passages or her stomach and she would just behave. It was so great. So good tip for people with puppies right now.

42:03
Try it, see if it works. Okay. All right, Sara, I really, you have no idea how much. I have enjoyed this, I learned a lot. I hope I taught some people some things too. And I appreciate your time so much. Well, thanks for having me. It was great chatting with you. I had a great time. Thank you. Have a great day.