Hot Mess Ranch

Today I'm talking with Steven at Hot Mess Ranch. You can follow on Facebook as well.

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00:00
Did you know that muck boots all started with a universal problem? Muck? And did you know that it's their 25th anniversary this year?  Neither did I. But I do know that when you buy boots that don't last, it's really frustrating to have to replace them every couple of months.  So check out muck boots. The link is in the show notes. The very first thing that got hung in my beautiful kitchen when we moved in here four and a half years ago was a calendars.com  Lang calendar.

00:26
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00:56
You can find them at homegrowncollective.org. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you.  Good morning, Steven. How are you?  I'm good. How are you?  I'm good. I'm really excited to chat with you because  I understand that you have a ranch, but I also understand that you  are all over social media. And I want to talk about that too. So  first off, why is it called Hot Mess Ranch?

01:26
Well, when my wife and I started the ranch, uh, 2021, we thought for months on what to name the place. And one day when we were watching TV, one of my daughters walked through the living room, did something funny or whatever. My wife looked at her and said, Oh my word, you're such a hot mess. And then it was like a spark went off and instantly

01:53
My wife and I looked at each other like, let's just name it Hot Mess Range.  Uh huh. And it was kind of a joke for a little bit. And then it just kind of stuck  and we named it the social media that and that it kind of, that that's how it got started. So it's named after my daughters being silly.  Well, I love that. And honestly, every time I see a hot mess before someone's name on any social media,

02:22
channel I'm like hmm what kind of hot mess is that one? Right. So it's a good way to get attention too.  Yes. Okay so what what brought you to doing Hot Mess Wrench?

02:34
My wife grew up on a Longhorn cattle ranch  for most of her life.  And we had kind of kicked around the idea of getting land for years and we had always looked at it and  coming out of COVID, we just,  we found some property and then kind of got serious about it. And I have a daughter with autism  and she was kind of having a rough time in the city and

03:04
Um, you know, kids can be kind of cruel and,  and, um, we were like, let's just give this a go. Um, really my daughter is what kind of pushed it over the edge. And so we found this place and got out here and that  main reason for her, uh, being a, a, um,

03:29
I'm a word I'm kind of brain farting here.  The main reason for moving out here with my daughter, uh, played out really well.  And, uh, she's  her  self-esteem is through the roof now and she's feeling great about herself and she's settled in with the animals. And so that's kind of really what it was all about. And then that's, that's why we came out here and got started.  I have a question about your daughter and if you don't want to answer it, just don't, and I will edit it out.

03:58
Autism presents in a whole lot of different ways with kids. So how did you find out that she had autism?

04:08
Um, my wife is a teacher and so she holds a, well, she does now she holds a doctorate in elementary education.  And so she's got a lot of experience with that, especially with kids in the,  in school. Right. And so we could tell, she could tell kind of an early age that there was a chance she was kind of on the spectrum. And then we went and got her diagnosed.

04:35
Uh, early on, so we've, had known for quite some time. You can, you can generally tell they're not a,  they're not as  social  as a lot of people, you know, she gets a lot of anxiety and in heavy social situations, a lot of people around a lot of noise,  um,  uh, over, over stimulation happens pretty quick, but the noise is really kind of.

05:05
you know, was a telltale sign. And she even to this day, if we go back into large gathering, you can tell she just kind of gets overstimulated pretty quickly. So that was one of the main signs that we noticed and she still has today. Okay. I was just wondering, don't want to make this about me, but I have a couple of things to say about this.

05:32
I,  we moved to our homestead because we lived in town, like right off main street in a small town. And there was always  noise and there was always someone knocking on the door. And  I don't love it. I grew up in a very small town in Maine, surrounded by pine trees,  basically in the woods. And that was perfect for me because I really did not love being with people, like lots of people. And

06:01
I've never been diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum, but I would assume I probably am.  And I feel like this was a thing a long time ago, but there just wasn't any science to define what it was. And  back in the old days, people would just say, oh, she's really shy or,  oh, her ears are really good and can't filter out things. So she hears everything  or she's crazy.

06:30
And I don't know, like I think everybody has things that bother them and always have. So just because you're on the autism spectrum doesn't make you less or weaker than anybody else. It just makes you different. Right. So I just want to get that in because I feel like people get really weirded out about talking about things like this.

07:00
And it shouldn't be weirding people out, it should be educating people.  The spectrum is very wide range too. So,  you know, with different levels of certain stimuli that, you know, can over stimulate  and  there's kind of a hyper focus to it too, where, you know,  my daughter's exceptional with the animals and it's something that she's gravitated towards, but she's also  really good at with art. And so,

07:29
You know, she's got a heavy artistic side.  Wonderful because those are both Fantastic things for her  to be able to be interested in and then pursue later in life. So that's great. Awesome  Okay, so I don't make this about autism, but I did have a couple things I wanted to say about it So you are all over social media with your cows your steers your your horses. Do you have goats too?

07:59
We do newbie and dairy goats.  Yeah. And so I'm guessing that that is  probably part of your income at this point. A little bit. Yeah.  Good. Good. And you're really good at it. So  my question is, do you,  do you just walk around with your phone and you're like, Oh, this would make a great video and just whip out your phone, hit record and just do it. Or do you actually set anything up?

08:28
It's a little bit of mix of both. The whole thing was a little bit accidental. You know, it started out with just being a general person that  records stuff, just like you do if you're on your own Facebook page or whatever. You're just sharing with your friends, right? We didn't even mean to, well,  TikTok ended up being just  a thing that we did because my wife was on it for school.

08:58
because they were trying, they had this big social media initiative for trying to get awareness out for some of the things that they were doing in education.  And that's the only reason she ended up on the app. And then we, I was watching some videos with her one day and I was like, it'd be funny if we just started the HMR TikTok account and posted some funny stuff of our horses and you know,  little, literally zero expectations.  And, um, people

09:28
tend to gravitate towards a hot mess. And  we posted some videos and it didn't really do much for a long time until we got Rosie and we showed her at the, winning her at the auction and then just kind of general everyday life stuff. think people tend to  appreciate the reality  of  life isn't always

09:59
perfect, know, a lot of, a lot of times on social media, you always see just the good stuff, but we try to share everyday stuff. And I think people can re it can relate to it. So good relatable content is, is kind of where it's the most. Engagement that we get on the platform. Yep, absolutely. And your horses are like dogs. They love you so much. They're like dogs.

10:30
Yeah, they just live in our kind of our front yard. Um, you know, and they get a lot of interaction, which we started this whole thing with the horses. We, and I, I didn't have a lot of experience with horses and, uh, we, I got a few from sales. never knew the right way to pick them up. The horse industry can be kind of difficult to be a part of, especially if you're new.

10:59
Uh, there's a lot of opinions on horses and everyone has a different one. And so trying to get any kind of idea of what to do or the best way to do things is can be challenging, especially if you're new. And so  I just kind of noticed that there was a lot of performance horses that once they were done with their performance career, they had kind of spent their life just doing that. And they weren't very personable.

11:27
They had a tough time with kind of their second career in life, which is  usually a lot of times they end up being just a family horse.  And so they have to kind of learn how to be around people.  so that was one of the things that I wanted to do is just make them.

11:47
very personable so that, you know, at some point, if they need to have their second career outside of doing performance, that they could adapt to that well.  And, those horses that adapted that well seem to have staying power in a family, right? Where if you have a horse that's kind of neurotic and, you know, can't adjust well to life outside of the arena, they tend to get into the sale pipeline a lot. So I just try to give them a lot of attention and hands on and

12:18
Learning about horses and a horse herd has been really fun.  know, and it's just their dynamic and how they interact with each other and their body language.  They talk to you a lot. You just have to be able to know how they're communicating with you. And so it's kind of, it's been fascinating, but they're that way because I spend a lot of time trying to make them that way. You you ride kind of a fine line of them being

12:49
too in your business sometimes, but it's like, they've got to have good manners, but  you want to, I try to let them be a horse and let their personality come out as much as we can. Yeah. We want them to be like a well-behaved 16 year old teenager, not a five year old who jumps in your lap and says, read me a story. Right. Right.  Although I do think some of my babies would like to get in my lap. just have to tell them.

13:18
They don't understand that they weigh so much.  they will smush you. They will break you because they're so big.  Did I also see that you have, I know you have at least one donkey named Hank, right? We do have a donkey named Hank.  And we got him from us.  We got him just  randomly one night out of a sale.  found I was in there looking at horses and I was live and my wife saw him and his mama. We have Hank and pickles.

13:48
He was just a tiny little fluff ball when he came here for the first time. Uh huh.  And, uh, that's how we ended up with the mini donkeys. And then we have a few others  after that.  have Daisy May, who's a regular size donkey and her baby, Mocha May. And then we have Sage, which is, she was a little bit feral when we got her, but she still doesn't really let you pet her too much.

14:17
I think she's kind of permanently that way.  We've, we've tried, but she just, we can get her to get a treat out of her hand and that's about as close as she'll let anybody get.  Yeah. Um, the way that I found you is  your video with, um, Hank came through and I heard you mentioned Clutch of Colors, Hank, and I follow Clutch of Color because I follow Katie Vance likes page and I was like,

14:42
I was like, why is he talking about Hank from Clutch of Color? And I watched the video and I was like, oh, I got to talk to this guy.  A different Hank.  Yep.  And Hank at, I can't think of her name right now. Alana's place. He's got a very  big, very beautiful bray. Does your Hank have a very beautiful bray? Hank doesn't really talk that much. It's, it's kind of, you know, they're all different personalities, but Hank's not a real big talker.

15:12
Um, I don't know if it's cause I don't know. He's just not a very big talk. Now Mocha, who  is just a little bit younger than Hank, she talks a lot  and she's kind of very squeaky Bray.  It's kind of like feels very little kid  and she does what we call winding up. Like it starts real small and she kind of winds up and gets going. But we don't have. Yeah.

15:40
Can you make the donkeys bray at you? Like if they're not making any noise, can you walk up and make a bray noise and then they start talking to you?  No, but if we walk anywhere close to where Mocha is at, she'll start talking to you.  That's the only way we can kind of, I could like get one to bray at me. Mocha will talk to you if you get, if she hasn't seen you for the day and you know, you get within about a hundred yards over, she'll start braying at you real slow and start walking towards you. Okay.

16:10
The reason I ask is our dog, okay,  let me back up a step. A dog that my parents had back when I was a kid, his name was Otis, he was a Samoyed.  My dad would go, brrr, at him. And he would just start making all the talking noises that dogs do when they're trying to communicate with you, but they're not barking.  And our dog, who is a mini Australian Shepherd, she'd never done it before.  And she's four and a half now.

16:39
and she was mad about something outside. She saw somebody pull over at the  end of our driveway  and she's barking at them. And you know when dogs whine down, they do that brrrr noise or that thing in their chest. And she was doing that and I mimicked her. And then she started talking to me the way that Otis used to talk to my dad.  And I was like, oh, I finally figured out how to get you to actually talk to me, not bark or whine at me. This is great.  So I just, love animals. I love

17:08
I love the fact that you said that you've learned so much about how horses communicate and what they're indicating to you by how they act, because almost every animal will do that if you pay attention. um, yeah, I focused on it with horses because like I had rid horses, I had ridden horses as a kid, but, so my entire context for horses was

17:38
You know, the horses that people put you on as a kid.  And then I haven't been around horses much since then until, you know, now that I'm older. And so when, when I got horses, my entire expectation was what they were like then. And, you know, having your own horses that are not in a lesson program or at a camp or your, you know, your uncle's super broke kid horse  is they're very different.  Um,  and.

18:08
Like  what that I got from somebody.  just expected, I don't know what I expected, but I got, I was just going to get on and ride off into the sunset. Right.  That thing threw me into the side of a barn.  I was like,  that was my first moment of, huh,  this is, this is not what I expected.  But the reason I started looking into the herd dynamic and how horses behaved is because  I started riding horses and so.

18:35
They were doing a lot of things like they had all these behaviors and all these things that they were doing. And so I'd go back to the person I was taking lessons from. And I was like, I don't understand why they're doing the things that they're doing. And,  it could be a training thing, of course, but sometimes it's not some, know, sometimes they're telling you that they've got an itch or something bothering them or, and I, I didn't know any of their language. I didn't understand any of things they're trying to tell me. And so  I just,

19:04
I kind of doubled down on learning herd dynamic and horse behavior and why, why are they doing the things they're doing? And because I don't know at the time, I didn't know the difference between is this horse just kind of being a little bit stubborn and not wanting me to do something or is there actually something bothering them? Or, you know, I just, I just asked a truckload of questions on the why.

19:34
And so I've spent  most of the last four years just really  in depth and trying to understand why they act the way they act. there, you know, that question will never be fully answered  from anybody in the world. Why horses do what they do. But I feel now that if I'm riding a horse, now I can at least get a little bit of an idea of is this is something going on or is, you know, are they just being a little bit.

20:03
Like they don't want to ride today, which is fine. We can work through that, but you know, especially how they behave in a herd. It's very fascinating dynamic watches horses in a herd and the way they talk to each other and the way that there's a hierarchy and there's an alpha and beta mare and the mares usually lead the herd and,  and how they watch over each other. And  it,  they're, very fascinating  animal when you just kind of sit back and watch them.

20:33
know, just be and watch lot of their natural instincts and stuff. Yeah, I feel like if horses weren't so big, horses would be man's best friend. Dogs wouldn't be. There's a lot of truth to that for sure. Although I think donkeys would be more. Donkeys are  donkeys are kind of a next level personable animal. You know, they really are.

21:01
They're literally very close. Although there's a, you know, people think that donkeys are more stubborn than horses, but donkeys just have a higher sense of self-preservation than horses do. It just makes them appear as though they're more stubborn than horses, they're, yeah. Just maybe smarter a little bit than horses.  Um, I don't know. I don't know about smarter. think just different and just their higher sense of self-preservation and

21:32
You know, they just some donkeys I think are a little bit just more confident. Like they just kind of know what they want and stick with it. They're not as easily redirected as horses are. They, they will replot, they will respond to pressure like horses do, but not as easily horses. Yeah. Okay. So I should have asked this back 20 minutes ago when we started this and I didn't, um,

22:00
What is the purpose of Hot Mess Ranch? mean, are you breeding horses for sale? Are you breeding cattle for sale? What's the purpose?  So past us coming out here for my daughter, the core  of our ranch is registered black Angus cattle. Like that's the actual main part,  business of the ranch. So to say that's the agriculture full.

22:28
you full agriculture side of the ranch. So they are, they're all registered, uh, black Angus grow in that cattle program  is, is the main thing that we're trying to do. The only other ag part of the business, I would say is the dairy goats, which,  um, has actually gotten pretty well.  And we're,  you know, we get some goat milk and we're  experimenting with maybe soap or some other stuff, but.

22:57
Those are the two main agriculture part of the business. The horses is more. We, we are breeding horses. What we're trying to make in the horse program is something that can run, uh, barrels  and also do breakaway roping. so you kind of have to have a cow run cross mixed in that. But the horse program is really kind of more of, I love horses and it's,  you know, more of a hobby. It's not really  ag. I got them all tied together into one.

23:27
just out of not having the knowledge of the separation of the different livestock programs. as I've,  the ranch has kind of matured, my knowledge level's kind of matured, I kind of see the differences.  Horses are more for fun, and the  real part of the business is the cattle and the goats. Okay, what is the breakaway roping thing? I don't know anything about it.  So I don't know if you, so you have different types of roping.

23:54
Um, most of what I think people see as team roping, where you have two people on either side of the chute when the calf comes out of the chute at the rodeo, the head person will rope around the,  uh, usually around the horns and then the healer will come in from behind and rope the back legs. And then they have to kind of  stop. And when the calf stops and pulls tight, then the timer stops and breakaway roping, it's a little bit different. So it's one person that comes out when the

24:23
calf  comes out of the chute. And as they're running forward, they rope the calf  around either the horns or the neck. And then the horse stops. And then the as the calf keeps running off, the calf runs off with the rope and the rope breaks away from the saddle. Okay. At the point where that breakaway occurs, the timer stops. And so a lot of there's a lot of people right now that are running barrels  and doing breakaway roping.

24:52
But horses are expensive. So  they can have one horse that can do both competitively. Then that's a, we've gotten feedback that that would be a nice to have for, for a lot of people out there. Okay. Thank you. Cause  I know nothing about horses and rodeo. I was not brought up around it. I grew up in Maine. We don't do a whole lot of rodeo and rodeoing in Maine.  And, uh, Minnesota has some  of that.

25:22
up in Hamel, it's like an hour north of us. They have a Hamel Rodeo every year, but I've just I've never been into it. So  when I see something new, I have to ask it's my got to know it is kicking in.  Okay, so what's the future look like for you guys?

25:42
We're always learning that every day.

25:48
It's real, it-

25:51
It's kind of unknown at this point as we  have learned that in order to continue to grow through the cattle program, we're just going to physically need more land, which is a challenge to get these days. Uh, land's really expensive and even finding lease land these days is few and far between because the cost of land is so high. People are choosing to lease.  Um, and so it's, it tends to get taken up. We'd love to, we'd love to grow the cattle program to where it's,  you know, as it can be like a

26:21
a full job instead of just a part-time kind of thing. But we're very much like a hobby ranch at this point, right? Like, I don't even know if we're a full, even a hobby ranch yet. It's a little less than hobby. We're getting, it's very beginning stages. Are you a dab, you're a dabbling ranch, not a hobby ranch. Yeah, there you go. We're dabbling in things and learning things.

26:51
And at some point we hope to, I hope to have enough land that we can  grow into a hobby situation and then into a  cattle operation at some point. So we're, have the training wheels on at this point, just everything we're doing is, is learning.  so we'll see.  I, don't know.  I have hopes and dreams, right? Like that we can grow into.

27:19
lack of a better term, real program  instead of a of a beginner program. But there's a long way to go to get there. yeah, we'll just kind of see as the future kind of unfolds and we'll have to kind of watch the real estate market and see how land prices do and see if the, I don't know if they'll ever come down again, but you know, maybe we can find something, you know, it's a decent price at some point, but.

27:48
We are watching and waiting to see how the future goes. Uh-huh. Maybe you'll find a farmer who is trying to get out of his, his thing because he's aging out and you'll manage to strike a deal. I'll, I'll keep that in mind for you. I'll hope that for you. There you go. Thank you. Um, my dog must've just heard somebody pulling driveway cause she's barking. She's a really good watchdog. Um, I was going to say COVID was the thing that kicked us into looking for a new place.

28:18
And I am so thankful that we started looking in 2020 because if we had waited till 2022, we  wouldn't be living where we're living now because we would not have been able to afford it. Yeah. Yeah. That's another big problem right now, right?  I think that the cheap interest, those 2 % interest rates, a lot of people got a really good deal on a mortgage, but I actually think there was a double edged sword.  It was, it was bad in general because now the

28:49
interest rates are high and people aren't leaving. So it's just kind of, people are sitting on those 2 % rates. so just people aren't moving about the country, you know, because they're just kind of, some people are sitting on stuff and it's too expensive to get in stuff. If, if those, if that never would have happened and rates would have stayed at, you know, in the three or 4 % range and then current rates would be the,  in the same range, people just kind of keep moving around and stuff would keep flowing. But right now it's just.

29:16
Stuck. Everything's kind of, everything's stuck. You know, I mean, like we're, we're same boat here, right? I think we got a two and a half percent rate on this place. It's just, I mean, it's wild. Yeah. I can't, I can't remember what we got in this place. I think it was actually lower than 2%, which is unheard of.  uh, the other thing that I said to my dad and my husband back during COVID when, when the government was  handing out all those rebate checks. Yeah.

29:46
I said, last I checked when I was in school and we were learning about finance,  when you give people money,  money loses value. I said, this is gonna come back to bite us in the butt. And  my dad said, well, I don't run the government. And my husband said, well, I don't run the government. And I said, well, do we have a choice?  Can we not take this money? And my husband was like, why would you not wanna take money? And I said, no, I mean our country.

30:13
Can we be like, no, this is a bad plan. And both my dad and my husband were like, no, that's not how it works. So I kind of knew back when that started happening that the cows were going to come home or the chickens were going to come home to roost on this. And I think it has hit every facet of our finances, everybody. Yeah. think hindsight's 20-20. I mean, you know, you're faced with a massive unknown.

30:43
the effects of what COVID was going to do.  I mean, you look back on it  and it was a huge overcorrection for sure. was like, at the end of the day, it was a bunch of  funds and cheap interest rates that fueled an already good economy.  And there was a  certain  group of people like in the service industry that should have been the,  you know,  the main

31:13
Um,  recipients to that kind of thing, because,  know, they're fully forced out, right? Like they can't do anything as restaurant worker. You're, you're sitting there. Absolutely. I mean,  absolutely would have been the right call. Everybody else,  especially in, uh, like high tech, for example, where  we all work from home anyways, all you did was fuel people that. And  low interest rates to people to be frank, that just didn't need it.

31:42
But it's a hard thing, right? When you look at the Fed and the decisions that they were made, I mean,  how are they supposed to know? It's a pandemic that  easily could have gone sideways. I don't really know whether it would be kind of trying to predict that,  Yeah. Tough thing.  But that's what ended up happening. They  just poured gasoline on a blazing fire that was already hot, right? Like it just, and then it just.

32:11
That's why it wrecked everything. And then supply chains were disrupted. had everybody bought everything. You know, when we started the ranch, that was one of the problems we had. Everything we bought had to be brand new because there was nothing used. Everything was gone. Yeah. You know, just getting a pickup truck for me, like that there wasn't any, there was literally nothing. think there was five trucks in the area. Like I had to go get something. And of course they're wildly overpriced. The only tractor that was available.

32:41
They had  one left and it was new and it was one left in the region. And I just happened to walk in there and that was the last one. And it was like, you know, getting anything was just a challenge. so everything we had, we got a great rate on the property, but  everything we had was  overpriced and brand new.  I never liked to buy that way. I loved to buy, you know, get a deal on something used and I combed everywhere. And it was either.

33:10
The only thing used you could find was just something that was rotten away in a field or brand new. Like there was like nothing in between and it was just really challenging. Now there's stuff now, but man, 2021, 2022, the inventory was just deleted. There's nothing there. It was a crazy, crazy time. I really do remember it because we moved here in August of 2020 and basically there was nothing here.

33:39
We had a house, we had a pole barn, but no infrastructure, no tractor, no nothing. And we ended up buying a brand new  small Kubota tractor because we needed one.  Who knew when you buy three acres that you're going to have to actually  need  some kind of tractor to actually  mow because you can't use a push mower on three acres. And you're going to need something to pick up big old logs and trees and stuff.

34:08
You you can't buy acreage without having some  form of tractor. So yeah,  I don't even want to get into this. There's so many things that we had to do when we moved here.  I actually try to keep these to half an hour, but I do have one last question for you.  If you had to choose one word to describe Hot Mess Ranch, what would it be?

34:33
One word? mean two words. It's a hot mess.  Well, how do you feel about it? guess one word to describe how you feel about it.

34:46
challenging.

34:49
This depends on the day, think. Mm-hmm. Challenging, educational.

34:58
watching my daughter sometimes it feels inspiring.  well, that's a whole lot of words. You're not playing. depends on the day. It's so hard to pick one, right? Because it's like this life. There's just so much that goes on that.

35:16
And I don't want to say challenge. don't want the, you can use the word challenging and it,  that can sometimes carry a negative connotation to it, but I think it can also carry a positive connotation to it. Sometimes challenging can be a good thing. Uh huh. Um, I think challenging is a perfect word for you. Yeah.  So far I've gotten love, I've gotten dream, I've gotten prideful  of all words.

35:44
And I think the person who said it meant proud, but used prideful instead.  So I just, wanted to come up with a question at the end of the podcast that, that let people know  that it's everything. This, this life when you're growing animals or growing produce is  everything. Like there are so many parts and facets of it. And I figured if I started asking  for a word that would more illustrate it.  So.

36:14
All right, Stephen, I really appreciate your time today and I love what you're doing and you are clearly having a ball doing it. At least what you're showing on your videos, you look like you are just so tickled at your life. Yeah, it's fun. I mean, there's days that it's not fun, I would say it's like 80 % fun. Okay, where can people find you?

36:43
All platforms, it's just Hot Mess Ranch. It's pretty easy to find. And you have a website too. What is it? We do. Hotmessranch.com.  We'll have our first little test run of goat milk soap soon. So I think we got 11 of them. So it's not very many, but we'll see what people think about it. I hope that goes well for you because it gets, it can be addicting once you get into making soap. We do it too.

37:11
Really nice. Yeah. Yep. All right, so you guys can find me at a tiny homestead podcast calm  you can find Stephen and his  Hot mess ranch at hot mess ranch calm  and  I hope Stephen has a wonderful weekend and I hope my listeners do too. Thanks Stephen. Thank you. All right. Bye