Outlaw Farm Alpacas, LLC

Today I'm talking with Steve and Jennifer at Outlaw Farm Alpacas, LLC. You can also follow on Facebook.

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00:00
listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Steve and Jennifer at Outlaw Farm, Alpacas, LLC in Ohio. Good morning, you guys. How are you? Good morning, everybody. Doing well.  I love that. No one has ever said good morning, everybody,  on any episode of my podcast so far. Thank you for doing that. I'm glad I'm the first.

00:29
Uh, were you in radio by any chance? I'm a performer and I own a production company, so I'm pretty familiar with this kind of stuff. Yeah. I figured you had to have something in your background because most people would never have thought to have said that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So the first thing I always ask is how is the weather where you are and you're in Ohio. So how's the weather in Ohio this morning? Well, it's a little overcast today. It says it's 60, but it certainly doesn't feel like it.

00:58
It is raining here in Minnesota this morning and it has been overcast for the whole week. I am praying that we get some sunshine tomorrow because  I am a, I'm a sunshine girlie. I really do like it when the sunshine is pouring in the windows. And this week I've gotten up every day and watch the sun come up, what little sun there was, and then it's been gray. So I am ready for it not be gray for a little bit. think we have a couple days of rain in store for us here then before we hit some sunshine again.

01:28
Yes,  I this spring has been so weird and I don't dare to complain about it  because the last two springs here all it's done is rain all of May and into the first half of June and it really ruined our farm to market garden  So I'm not complaining I'm just saying it would be nice to see the Sun peek out a little bit this weekend. That's all I'm saying  Okay, so you guys how did you get your name number one?

01:57
Well, let me tell you, um we bought this place um about eight years ago  and it's located on Law Road in Grafton, Ohio. um we were  brainstorming for a name and we're thinking of crazy different names we could name an alpaca farm. And I said, what about outlaw farm? And she says, what do mean? We're not outlaws. And I said, you know, but we're on Law Road. So that made a lot of sense and it stuck. we ran with it.

02:25
And again, it's attention grabbing. of the reason I love this so much is because part of the way I find people to talk to is by you guys' names. And I saw Outlaw Farm, Alpacas, and went, oh yes, I must find out about them. Okay, so when did you get into this? Well, we got into it around 2018. We bought this place and...

02:52
It was, it was really in need of some work. So we cleaned up the old barn, which was built in like, I say the late 1800s, a lot of cleanup. We cleaned it up, made it look nice. And we thought, yeah, let's get a couple of animals because it's such a nice barn. We could use some more pets because we have the land now. Well, my wife has a cousin that has alpacas as pets. So  she mentioned alpacas. She contacted her cousin and they said, you know, we'll sell you a couple.

03:22
So we bought four pets,  two males, two females,  and  it just went from there. um She started researching alpacas and the fiber and the showing and  the breeding. And she just wanted to make it a business because  she was set to retire in a couple of years and she wanted something to do. So that's, that's basically how it started.  minor midlife crisis situation.  Small one.

03:50
I just did the same thing almost three years ago because my youngest was going to be moving out,  youngest of four,  and I didn't want to face emptiness syndrome without a project. So I started this podcast. So I'm right there with you. Awesome.  I get it. It's really hard when your life changes in a big way and women tend to find projects and I won't say what men tend to find. And that would be a very terrible thing to say.

04:18
I don't think that men necessarily find projects. I think that men find distractions. I'd have to disagree because I have a lot of projects. Because of the farm, he has a lot of  I mean the men who are enlightened. You're enlightened, Steve. We'll give you that today. You are an enlightened soul. Awesome. Thank you. So uh do you guys, I want to talk about the alpacas because I haven't really talked in depth with anybody about them.  But do you have other animals as well?

04:47
Yes, we right now we're at 34 alpacas and we are expecting nine creas, which are the babies. Anytime I have our first one actually do now and they'll birth all the way through probably the end of September. But we also have five goats, just pets, all males, weathers and then 30. Oh, let me see where we at. We're at about 40 chickens, I think, and six ducks.

05:15
aside from numerous dogs and barn cats and the like. Whatever else shows up on the property, know.  Yeah, I saw you have barn kittens right now.  Yes, we seem to have. had a mama kitty that kind of hung around and now her kids came seem to come here and live and.  Add more barn kittens to our farm, so I think we just have two. Those are the only two I have seen so far.

05:44
But there could be more.  For everybody listening, if you want to see some really cute kittens, go to Alpaca's Farm,  the Facebook page, because there's a couple photos and they are very sweet. um I am a sucker for a barn kitten. We have two females right now who I suspect are pregnant.  And if they are, they're probably due at the very end of June versus July. And I am so looking forward to barn kittens again, because we haven't had any in a couple of years.

06:14
They're lot of fun. They're cute. It's fun to watch them grow up. They keep the mice population down too.  Oh my God.  Yes.  When we bought this place back in 2020, it was August  and the big old pole barn that was on the property was empty except for all these little packets that were ripped open on the ground in the pole barn. And come to find out it was  rat poison basically because

06:44
We had a pretty good mouse issue going on in that pole barn that we didn't know about.  And so  my husband was out puttering around in the fall and he had opened up one of the drawers on the old workbench in the pole barn. And he came in and he said, do you have a minute? And I said, yes, what? And he said, come with me. So I walk out to the pole barn and he's like, be quiet and just look, just look. And he opens this little drawer in the workbench.

07:11
and there's four little tiny field mice babies all curled up sleeping in the drawer.  He says, uh we need to get some cats. He said, cause where there's that many babies, there's lots more mice.  So, okay. So we ended up getting like three cats and then we had a stray show up. She was a female. She had babies.  I think she had three or four litters in a couple of years. And one of her daughters had a litter and

07:39
The thing with barn cats is that barn cats flake off or they get killed by cars. And so  every year we lose a couple. So I'm very excited that we have kittens coming, I hope.  We don't keep tons of cats, but  when there's new babies, it's fun  and everybody likes a kitten. So we usually find homes for them pretty easily.

08:03
Yeah, we try to do. I mean, there's some people interested in the kitties and when they're old enough, I'm sure we can  we can get them some good homes. Yeah, I just I get real antsy when I talk about the barn cats because the big thing is they and neuter your pets and I agree completely stay and neuter your pets unless you intend to breed them as a business. But when it comes to barn cats, barn cats have a job. Yeah, yeah, it is not the same premise is not the same thing so.

08:33
I try to walk a fine line between, yes, have millions of animals on your property that you can't afford  and that aren't being treated well. Don't do that. That's not a good plan. Have a plan.  So anyway, ah what kind of dogs do you have on the property? Well, we have four German Shepherds and we have a Dalmatian, which is the oddball.  Is it a girl or a boy? Girl.  What's her name? You'll never guess. Purdy?

09:02
Yep. I love it. I have never seen a Dalmatian puppy in person. Wish I could say that I had because I bet they are freaking adorable as the They are the most adorable little puppies. As the spots start to pop out. Yeah. Yeah. Because Dalmatian puppies are white when they're born, right? Right. Yes. Yeah. And then their spots come in slowly.

09:29
Right, about two, three weeks in, they start getting their spots. Yeah.  See, I'm such a freaking encyclopedia of worthless information.  I know that about Dalmatian dogs, never actually met a Dalmatian dog in person,  but I know nothing about alpacas. So, go fig. So tell me all about alpacas. Start from the beginning. Well,  I guess the main thing to know is they are actually quite

09:59
shy but curious. They're not an animal that you can just always walk up to on pet unless they really get to know you and really trust you. But once they do, they are a super, super sweet, calming animal. um That's the one thing that I find attracts a lot of people to them is their calming nature. Just they're very gentle, they're very curious. um you know, once you get to once they get your trust, you know,

10:29
They come up to you and approach you.  A lot of people use them, um obviously, for their fiber. Their  fiber is much  warmer, actually, than wool. um It doesn't have landlin in it, so it lacks that itchiness that you get when you wear wool. So a lot of people that are allergic to wool um can actually go ahead and wear alpaca-fibered products.

10:58
It doesn't cause that itchiness or allergic reaction. Well, I didn't know that. Yeah. Um, their fibers are also hollow. So that's why they are able to stay, um, cool in the summer most of the time, unless it's a heat wave and then warm in the winter, traps that heat inside those hollow fibers and keeps them warm. Uh, their fibers also moisture wicking. So.

11:23
You'll never see it. Well, you might see a soaking wet all pack of it stands out in a good thunderstorm. But most of the time it just rolls off it like it has a rain X on it. um, see what else they're pregnant for almost a year. Oh That's true. Um, let's say I'm trying to think. Um, as far as there, let's see, they're pregnant pregnancy. So we have nine girls that are pregnant now. Uh, they are pregnant for pretty close to a year.

11:53
we start watching it about 340 days of pregnancy.  And  usually they deliver before that year is up. So usually about a good 11 and a half months.  They have one baby at a time. um Did they never have twins?  Rarely. They very rarely have twins. And usually  if they do happen to get pregnant with twins, they lose that pregnancy prior to  full term. Okay. Or uh

12:21
If they do have two, they're extremely small and a lot of times don't survive. um There have been cases where they do and they're fine. But um for the most part, rarely do they have twins that do survive.  And the babies are called creas. C-R-I-A.  Do you know why, what, do you know anything about that word, where it comes from? I have no idea, honestly. Okay. I didn't know if it was Latin or Greek or something. So. Yeah, no idea. Okay.

12:52
How big is a crea when they're born? Usually anywhere between about 15 pounds to generally about 20. We've had them as small as 10 pounds and as large as 22. So it can be varied, but usually generally I would say, you know, 15 to 20 pounds is about your average, at least for our farm. How much does an average mama alpaca weigh? Females generally are anywhere between

13:21
140 to 160 pounds. So they're about the size of a deer. Yeah, they're not super large. They are, you know, they're part of the camelid family. so llamas would be like the next size up and they're generally like 250 to 350 pounds. Okay. Where most alpacas, you know, once they reach adulthood or anywhere between 140 and 175, 180, or take.

13:49
Okay, I thought they were bigger than that for some reason. That is good to know because  I,  we don't have room for an alpaca. If we did, I would actually consider it now knowing that they don't get as big as llamas. No, they're not as large. They're definitely not as tall.  And, um, they're just, you know, once they look bigger, guess,  um, you know, especially we just had our short on Wednesday, but,  um, they look really large when they're all full fleeced.

14:18
Cause some of them will have, you know, five or six inches of fiber on them. So it makes them look quite large. And then once they get shorn down, you actually see how small they actually are. mean, yeah, they're probably about the size. I would say probably about the size of a deer actually when they're shorn. Not real large. Yeah. Um, have a question about their fur hair, whatever you call it.  Um, if you were to walk up to an alpaca that you know really well,

14:47
and lean in and sink your fingers into their fur on their shoulders. Do your fingers sink in or do they stay on top of that six inches of fur? Oh, they sink right in. So it's not real dense. It just depends on the alpaca. Some of them have much denser fiber. I do have some that are extremely dense, but you can get your fingers in there and wiggle them down to the skin.

15:16
Some of them are just finer. you know, more, um, you know, they're, they're fibers finer, not quite as dense as others. So, you know, it varies. Okay. I, I've never actually pet an alpaca. I have pet llamas and I don't really enjoy it because the llama that I met, he was very friendly, but he was also very skittish. Like he really wanted you to talk to him and pet him. But the minute you moved, he would kind of startle.

15:44
And it made me real nervous because I was like, you  going to spit at me or are going to bite me? Because I don't really want either. Yeah.  I think llamas are more prone to spitting than alpacas. Alpacas do spit,  but it's not generally at people. It's generally at each other. um The females tend to spit at each other,  you know, especially pregnant because, you know, they want the food. um

16:12
So if you get spit at, you're probably just got to gotten the crossfire of it. Um, and boys, the males tend to spit each other, especially, um, this time of year when, um, it tends to be breeding season, um, for those that are not already currently pregnant. Um, they do spit a lot of each other just basically to, you know, fight for that position, so to speak. It's so gross. Oh my goodness. It's the best smelling stuff.

16:41
And  I understand that the creator gave every animal a way to assert dominance and defend, but what a gross way to assert dominance and defend. Yeah, it's not real pleasant. you know, as far as Elpac is, that is pretty much their only defense.  They are a predatory animal, so they really don't have any natural defenses. So a of farms.

17:09
you know, then have the guardian livestock animals, especially if they don't close theirs in, you know, at the night and during nighttime. So, but we do close ours and some farms don't, um, ours don't seem to mind it. They kind of just put themselves away most of the time when it starts to get dusk and then I just closed the gates. So, that's helpful. Yeah, very helpful. Okay. So tell me about the babies. Are the babies, um, like,

17:39
like goat babies who are basically up and nursing within an hour or so, or does it take them a little longer? Generally, rule of thumb is they should be up, standing and nursing within about 30 minutes. Some do take a little bit longer, especially if the mama is, know, first time mamas, they're kind of a little unsure about what's going on. But you know, our season, season mamas do really well. They, they get those babies get up.

18:07
We kind of do help get them standing up and help them find, you know, where to nurse. And once they tend to find that they're kind of pretty much on their own.  Um, one thing about alpacas, unlike,  um, dogs or some other livestock is they do not,  um, clean their babies.  Oh, so, um, I kind of, I like to be home and around when I know it's definitely going to be birthing time.

18:36
Um, because for any particular reason, that generally, once they start the birthing process, you know, the placenta does break, but if for any particular reason it doesn't, that baby just basically suffocates because mom, unlike dogs or other cats or whatever, they don't clean that baby off and lift that placenta off. So, huh. Yeah. I had no idea. Yeah. That was a, that was something I really, I mean, I didn't know that either. And, um, but we've.

19:06
Again, pretty good at  delivering them and,  um, taking a couple of classes at Ohio State University on ways to help if there seems to be a uh issue that arises. But, um, for the most part, it goes pretty well. And, know, they, they just like other livestock you want nose and toes. You want that Superman position coming out. Oh yeah.  And, um,  once that happens, then, you know,  baby is born and,

19:35
We kind of just dried off real well  and try to get it up and standing and nursing usually within 30 minutes. Okay. Thank you for all that. Cause I just learned a couple of things I wouldn't have even thought to ask, let alone  knew the answer to. So I love my podcast so much because I learned so many new things from you guys. I'm so  thankful  and grateful that you spend the time to talk to me.  Um,

20:02
So anyone who's listened to my podcast knows that I am a sucker for babies. So I must ask, do the babies let you handle them? Do they let you hold them and pet them or are they really skittish and all they want to do is be with their mom? It kind of depends. I have some babies that like the minute I walk in the barn, they walk right up to me and they want like little kisses on their noses.

20:28
And you have other ones that are just like, take one look at you and they run the other way. So it just kind of depends.  Um,  but for the most part, we had, you let's say we had eight babies last year and I would say only two of them are probably, I don't want to say they're not people friendly because once you, once you grab them or get ahold of them, they're perfectly sweet and fine, but they're just not their personality is not to come up to you and initiate, you know, loving or whatever. But for the most part.

20:58
Um, I,  it's hard because they're cute as can be.  I try not to be too handsy with them.  Um, especially males because they do have what's called berserk male syndrome. Okay. So as you know, if you over handle a, a male CREA, especially as they become like a yearling,  um, they

21:20
can get this syndrome, is basically they've imprinted on you and they think you are an alpaca and then they have no problem trying to assert dominance over you. ah And it can be quite dangerous,  especially if you have a very large male. So I do try to make a very conscious effort not to be too hands on with them, but hands on enough that I can do what I need to do, give shots, weigh them, administer any medicines that they might need.

21:50
Um, but for the most part, try really hard not to be too handsy with them.  So  I'm assuming that  you sell their fiber. So is there a market for their fiber?  Um, there is, I do have,  um, one particular farm in Tennessee that, um, she buys quite a bit of a certain color fibers  of our alpacas.  Um, the rest of it, honestly, I send to a fiber mill.

22:18
And  we have yarn and rug yarn  made from it.  And then we turn around and make products from that or we sell the yarn in our our farm shop or online. OK, so can people find a way to order it from you on your website? Yes, you can.  Once you go on the website, it does have a link  on there for our Etsy store at the moment.  And then.

22:47
If you're um in our area,  then we do have um a shop set up where you can come and take a look at our yarn and purchase if you'd like. Okay, awesome. I'm all over the place  today with questions because again, haven't really talked to anybody about all packets. um Ohio gets hot in the summertime.  I know it does  because I've driven through Ohio as a kid. Well, I driven, I've ridden in my parents' car.

23:17
through Ohio as a kid, because my grandparents lived in Illinois and my parents and I lived in Maine.  And Ohio in July and August gets  hot.  Yes.  So how do the alpacas handle that with their fur? it because their fur is  hollow? Do they stay cool?  Sometimes it just depends. Some of them can, like the lighter color alpacas can  tolerate a little bit more. ah But we do run barn fans.

23:46
And a lot of them,  uh,  in the summer, pretty much 24 seven, unless you get a nice cooler day. Yeah. But they'll go out in the morning and they'll hang out in the pastures in the morning and munch. And when they start to get warm, they come in and lay in front of the fans.  And then,  uh, evenings, when it starts to get a little bit cooler, they will.  Um, head back out to pasture. So, but, um,  you know, you can  sometimes I hose off their legs, their bellies, their necks. never want to hose off the.

24:16
backs,  then that just kind of like traps the heat in their fibers. they do like the hose. um They do like to stand in their water buckets because the water is nice and cool. Oh, which I don't care for. um But, you know, it's not too bad.  Last summer was extremely hot and they spent most time inside than outside. um We haven't had too many days where it's been too warm yet, but

24:44
we're getting there. But now that they're shorn, they'll stay outside a little bit longer. oh So is, is, is fall and winter  better for them?  Are they comfortable? Yeah. Yes. Okay. You they're from, you know, basically Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, their area and  in the Andes mountains. So they're used to that kind of climate, the cooler temperatures to snow. They don't mind the snow, honestly.  Um,

25:13
they like that cool weather and  they'll lay outside when it's snowing.  And  again, I know lots of things about a few things and a few things about lots of things.  People worry, people who don't know anything about livestock worry about horses and cows being outside in the wintertime and they've got snow on their backs.  And that's good. If they have snow on their backs, it means that they're warm. Right. It means that they're insulated.

25:42
And I assume it's the same thing with the Alpacas. Yes. Yeah. Their fiber is extremely warm. And we were shearing the other day and it was a cool day. It was what probably low, low in mid maybe mid fifties or something in there. Yeah. And I was freezing. uh Our shears were freezing and they were sweating. Like we pulled off, you we pull off you, you shear them in  sections.  they're basically from their shoulders.

26:12
back to their bottoms and then pretty much mid sides that top area is where that's their prime blanket. That's where the yarn is made from.  And we pulled off and it was damp to the touch. They were like literally sweaty. So they were quite still warm as we were all bundled up in sweatshirts and jackets.  So.  Okay. So I got a couple more questions. try to keep this to half an hour, but I have two more questions.  How much on average does it cost to buy

26:41
Young alpaca like not not ready to breed yet. Okay. Well Cause I never had  an average so  males are generally Less expensive than females because of course you can breed the females. Yeah, goes by color grays blacks Rones  are your most expensive whereas your least expensive or generally your white or beige alpacas um but you can

27:11
You can get a good pet, for depending thousand dollars by a hundred to a thousand. Um, if you want something quite substantial, you can spend up to 30, 40,000. Um, so it just kind of depends on. You know what your purpose is with them. guess if you're, if you just want a pet, you can probably, you know, you can find them.

27:37
quite inexpensively. If you want something that you want to breed and show, you're going to pay a little bit more. Yeah, I was, I was, my second question was going to be if you're looking for a female that is old enough and ready to be bred, is it exponentially more money? Not necessarily. Um, it kind of goes, but prices are go by color and fiber quality. So you're more dense animals. Um, you know, better fiber is going to go.

28:06
more than one that just has, you know, maybe not a lot of crimp, but a lot of staple length to it. So there's a lot of variance in the pricing. We sell ours, tend not to, we're somewhere in between probably pet quality and, you know, mid range. I wouldn't say we, know, nobody, none of our passers is going to sell for like, you know, $30,000.

28:34
Some farms definitely would have that because they have a larger quantity. You know, have more capital that they can put towards theirs. All right, well, if anybody listening wants to buy an alpaca,  you now have more than enough information to keep looking into it and seeing if you would like one because  Jennifer has filled me in on all kinds of things that I didn't even know about. uh Where can people find you guys? Well, our website is  www.

29:02
outlawfarmlpakas.com  and there's links to our Etsy shop and our Facebook page on there. So pretty much all our information's on that webpage. And we are on Facebook, of course, Outlaw Farm L. Pakas  LLC.  And you can look us up there.  And we  post a lot of things on Facebook, a lot of photos of the farm and photos of the store and stuff like that. So you could see what's going on over here. Yes.  And  can I give you guys a little piece of

29:32
I don't know, encouragement? Sure.  Can you post some more actual videos on your YouTube channel of the babies? Because I know you have the one the one video, but that's all I saw. Yeah, we just started the YouTube thing.  Yeah,  we're going to start targeting that more. Yeah, once the Koreas are born, we're going to do some shorts and we're going to put it on. We're just getting started on YouTube. So, yeah, definitely we're going to we're going to post some more content on there for sure.

30:01
good because I will become an avid fan if you do that.  All right.  I love those babies. They're so cute.  All right, you guys. Thank you so much. always, people can find me at a tinyhomesteadpodcast.com.  Jennifer and Steve, I hope you have a wonderful day. You too, Mary. Thank you.