Plotting To Plate - The people on plot 11 & 5

Today I'm talking with Matt and Deb at Plotting To Plate - The people on plot 11 & 5.

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00:00
Did you know that muck boots all started with a universal problem? Muck? And did you know that it's their 25th anniversary this year?  Neither did I. But I do know that when you buy boots that don't last, it's really frustrating to have to replace them every couple of months.  So check out muck boots. The link is in the show notes. The very first thing that got hung in my beautiful kitchen when we moved in here four and a half years ago was a calendars.com  Lang calendar.

00:26
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00:56
You can find them at HomegrownCollective.org. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Matt and I think you said Debbie. I might have screwed that up. At Plotting To Plate. Hi guys, how are you? We're good. Thank Very good. Thank you. Did I get the name right? Yes, it's Deb. Okay, good. I blanked for a second. I was like, what is her name?

01:24
Okay.  You guys are in Staffordshire or Staffordshire, England, right?  Yeah, we're in Stafford, which is in Staffordshire. It's a market town,  about 71,000 people. So it's quite a big town these days. It's so medium to large.  And it's in the Midlands. Okay, cool.  And how is the weather in England today?  It's  lovely.

01:52
It's really nice. So if you're wanting to go outside and get some time and sit and have a cup of tea and read books, it's great.  If you're growing vegetables, not so good because  this has been the driest spring that we've had since the records began.  So obviously we have two hats on these.  Oh, no.

02:19
Unseasonably warm and dry for the UK at the moment.  I really wish that Mother Nature would get her act together. Well, just give us more warning about what she's going to be because we've got seedlings and things we need to look after.  So, you know, you need to be able to plan for that, don't you? Yes. And we went through this last year here in my town  because we had six weeks of rain straight in May and June. Yeah.

02:49
And it was bad. Our garden was terrible.  And I've talked about it a lot, so I'm not going to talk about it anymore right now.  tell me about what you guys do, because I  know in England you can either have plants growing where you live or you can have allotments. And I'm not quite sure I understand what allotments mean. So tell me about it.  Yeah. So an allotment  is  a large piece of land.

03:17
that's often owned by either a council or an association.  And then it's subdivided into plots.  And  the sole purpose of the plot is to grow  fruit and veg. And you rent that land from either the association or the council.  So we rent  two plots  on our site.  There's plot five and plot 11.  And there's about 150 plots on the site. So it is a massive site.

03:47
But it's urban, so it's completely surrounded by housing. There's nothing rural about it  outside of the gates until you get in the gates and then there's all  the small plots that are put over to fruit, veg, flowers  or whatever you want to grow there.  Allotments,  it's quite an old tradition in the UK.

04:15
the 1970s became popular and then it died off again. Then it came back to life in the 1990s and has sort of grown ever since. We found that we actually took ours on in just after lockdown in 2021 because during lockdown, know, we love food, we love eating well and we love eating organically. So lockdown gave us the time to think and consider about having.

04:43
a more sustainable and simpler life and part of that was to get these two allotment plots. We haven't looked back since actually, just absolutely love it. So as far as allotments for the third, as quite large. So normally in the UK they're about 300 yards, but as a bigger, so with the two together, I think we have about a quarter of a plot, something like that, isn't it?

05:13
A quarter of an acre. Not a quarter of a plot. That wouldn't feed us. It's about a quarter of an acre, which it's not too big. It's just about as much as we can manage because Matt still works. I'm retired but he works. But it does sustain us to be able to eat seasonally, to eat organically and to also grow just enough to keep some for through the winter.

05:43
basically everything that we cook has got something that we've grown in it  or something that we've preserved with it.  That's so beautiful. I love it.  So when do you guys grow? When does growing season start?  We  tend to do it based on temperature.  because,  well, so you can see from plotting to play, it's our diary.

06:10
and it shows what we decided to do with it was to keep a diary on how things progressed. But what it has shown us is every single year is different. So the first year we planted straight away, which was kind of February, we started seedlings off in a unheated greenhouse. But then the following year we could see from the posts that everything was a month later. So.

06:37
We kind of stick with the 15 degrees thing now. So as soon as the temperature is regularly at 15 degrees, we know that the seedlings will be all right in the unheated greenhouse that's on the plot. yeah, so it depends on the year. So sometimes we can start things off February, March. Other times it's a little later. OK, is there a greenhouse for the whole?

07:08
set of plots or are there greenhouses for every few or how does that work? Well  when we took the plots then they were completely derelict  so it was just  a piece of land that was covered in weeds and brambles and  we had to build everything so fortunately I married a man who's very handy  so  there's the first thing the first plot we had was 11 and

07:34
We cleared it all and then Matt built a shed. And then the shed wasn't quite enough for what we wanted to do, so we then designed and built a greenhouse. But you can't use glass on the site. Obviously, there's rules on the site as to equipment and things that you can do. So yeah, he designed and built a greenhouse, which has just been brilliant for, and big enough to do all of our seedlings.

08:03
And then on the second plot, which was number five, again, had to build a shared clear it.  But on there, we've got a huge polytunnel  so that we find that with the greenhouse and with polytunnel,  we can get enough seedlings going  for the whole of the two plots.  OK, what's the second thing that you're saying?  Polytunnel.  So you describe the polytunnel in that.  I know you definitely have them.

08:33
stateside. It's  a hoop tray covered in plastic  shikoo. We've got  a large  semi-agricultural one.  It's just over 20 foot by 10 foot, which we've  got  tomatoes and chilies.  We're trying  sweet potatoes.

09:02
this year because we can get a consistent temperature.  We've built an irrigation system which is  driven off solar panels. So we haven't got to be there every day to water. So we've brought an element of  automation into it.  it's  because it's  because you're out

09:31
in the public, our site's got public right away. You have to be wary of  the potential.  We don't have massive vandalism,  but you don't have anything too valuable there because  it can get damaged or stolen.  everything we do is an element of a compromise associated with it. Okay. That makes sense.

10:01
So  I know  that smaller towns or cities in England have this allotment system, but do the big cities have it too? Yeah, they do. So there were some laws that were brought out  so that  every council has to offer allotments where there's demand for them.  And you find that in the larger towns and cities  that the waiting lists for allotments are years, years and years and years.

10:30
Yeah, it's quite shocking really. There's a few sites in some of the big cities, London and Oxford, places like that, where the waiting list is like 15 to 20 years to get on. You're literally waiting for people to die before... Or give up. give up. Predominantly it's...

10:58
There's a huge demand these days for allotments. We're very lucky to have  two  plots on the site where we've got one in my name and one in Debbie's name. That's fabulous. I love that there is such a demand because  here in the States,  not as much demand. We definitely have cities that have community gardens. That's what we would call an allotment here.

11:27
And I've talked to on the podcast a couple of places that do this and a lot of the lots go empty.  They  just don't have people who want to use them. That's such a shame, it?  You know,  you find that  in a foodie culture as well these days, which is getting more popular,  the chance to get organic vegetables that you know exactly where it's come from.

11:56
is growing. So you think why do people not just want to try and do it themselves? I think they think they're too busy.  I I don't know what the culture is like where you are, but here a lot of people  work a lot of hours during the week. They're gone a lot. Yeah. To afford these big fancy houses and boats and fancy cars  and

12:24
They are not, they don't have the time to actually enjoy the time that they have off. Yeah.  And you're right, you know, because  we were able to do this now because I have retired.  So Matt still works.  I don't.  And it was  a conscious decision to really simplify because I've come from that, you know, for 30 years, I've got very corporate life  where I was not at home very much. And,  you know, I'd sort of.

12:53
leave on a Monday, come back on a Thursday night.  So the chance to do this actually felt like quite a dream at the time. And  now that we are able to do it, it's do feel really, really lucky.  So the plus side is that, you you're out and about,  you know, enjoying doing something that's completely natural, but the bounty of it,  because you're able to eat and produce great food.

13:21
from your labors, if you like.  So it's a shame that you can't  get that balance with  both things. I know we couldn't, when I worked and we were both working, we couldn't do it.  I suppose  a lot of people on our sites,  do both work,  but you find that they're  not getting quite as much out of it or able to do  as much, but they get little bits of it, you know?

13:51
Yeah.  it's also, I think it's an incredible way to decompress.  Even if you're,  I am not by nature a gardener, but  I  just, just for being outside and doing,  it's cheaper than a gym and it's more rewarding  digging.

14:19
building, but just being outside and seeing other people. There's  hundreds of people on our site with the plots. We're from all different backgrounds, different cultures,  different opinions,  ages. It's a massive cross section, but we've all got the one thing in common, that we've got an allotment and we're all trying to do our best.

14:50
Just the talking to people, getting advice, sharing opinions and forgetting about your corporate life, forgetting about work, being immersed in something natural. It's just a fantastic way of... Cleansing the clutter from your life.

15:18
Do the other people that have allotments as well, do you and they end up helping each other sometimes? Yeah, it's brilliant for that. There's all sorts of things. So ours is quite  a  social allotment. So there's lots of things that  bring people together as well. So we have like  cake days where we sell cakes to make some money for  other social events like barbecues, bonfire nights,  things like that.

15:46
So there's a social aspect to it. But we also share produce. So we've got some, obviously we've got neighbours either side on our plots and our friends, all share what we grow. So if we have a surplus of something, then we share it with them and they do with us. But it's not just the physical, know, like swapping your strawberries and your packed choy, but it's also advice and knowledge.

16:15
So there's a real character next door to Matt on plot number five. And he knows everything. He's gardened on the site for over 20 years, know, on various bits of the site. And he knows every single pest, every single problem that you're going to come across. But the funny thing is it makes him a little bit paranoid as well. And Matt was harvesting onions.

16:44
last year and Steve came over and said oh my goodness you've got some onion pest and you know because that's all flat and Matt just said no that's where I fell over  so  you know it's  sort of every week there's some kind of conversation where  you laugh just laughing about something.

17:08
So it is great, it's a nice community, really is good.  Everybody's got time for each other as well.  And as far as help's concerned,  yeah,  we've helped people  like, motivate their plots if they're struggling and, you  know, others have given us slabs where we want to put paths down and  segment the plots out. So  it really is a nice culture there.

17:37
I love it. I love it. love it. I'm so glad this goes on in other countries too.  Okay. So what do you grow in your plot?  Well, take  two different views on this. So  Matt's plot is all about potatoes  and onions.  And his mission this year is he wants to grow a huge onion. That's all he's interested in this year.

18:05
Then my, and so Matt's plots got, you know, huge beds for potatoes and the onions. Whereas my plot is lots and lots of fruit. we do, but it's things that we, so on my plot on 11, we tend to try and grow things that you can't get in the supermarkets or are really expensive in supermarkets. So we've got a little orchard there, which is apples, pears.

18:36
green gauges, cherries.  We grow strawberries, but we grow white strawberries.  So they're white with a red seed.  Then we've got a fruit cage which has blueberries, red currants,  white currants,  raspberries, gooseberries. Oh, we grow lots of blackberries.  Then the next  bit of the plot is all down to

19:04
vegetables.  we have permanent beds for asparagus.  always grow bulotti beans. We always  grow  globe  and Jerusalem artichokes.  But then lots of beetroots  and salads, squashes,  kale, anything that we like to eat  and anything that's a little bit unusual.  things like we've grown tromboncino, which you don't get in

19:33
supermarkets, which is a really long squash. Yeah, grow, if we grow courgette, we'll grow round ones. You know, just things that are a little bit different. Is courgette eggplant? No, it's zucchini. Zucchini. sorry. There's a word for eggplant in Europe and I can't think of it right now. What is it?

20:02
Aubergine. Aubergine, yes, I love that word. I don't know why I couldn't come up with it right now. Oh, we grow those too. So on the polytunnel, on my foot we grow aubergines. We've actually started to grow a kiwi, which is a hairless kiwi, but we haven't rooted yet, so I don't know how that's going to go. And we've grown watermelons and things like that in there as well. it's quite

20:27
diverse, but it's always based around what we like to eat. Yeah, because why grow it you're not going to eat it? Exactly. How far are you from your allotments? Five minutes in the car. Yeah, it's round about a mile. think within Stafford, think there's a total of about six or seven allotment sites within

20:57
our time and so forth. So we're quite lucky though. It's a five, 10 minute drive to get there. So it's a hopscape and a jump really? Exactly, yeah. Okay, good. I started watching Clarkson's Farm on Netflix. Oh, it's A year ago, maybe a year ago. And I never really liked Jeremy. I thought he was kind of snotty.

21:26
I watched the first season and he was  all, I got this, this is easy, it's all going to be great, I'm going make money, it's going be great.  And then they got the sheep and then they had babies, had lambs. And I watched that man melt and I went, okay, there's a heart in there. Yeah. Did you see him with the pigs when you... Yes, yes.  And when he was so distraught about what happened to the piglets that he redesigned the thing.

21:55
that he, you know, so that  they wouldn't get crushed.  Honestly, I was crying.  I could not stop crying at that one. And like you, I never really liked him very much  when he was doing all Top Gear and  Grand Tour, but  saw him in a completely different light in that program. Yeah. And I love his farm shop. I love that  Diddley Squat farm shop as well. We must go, Matt.  Yes, I just...

22:22
I always thought that he was terribly arrogant and arrogant is one of my least favorite qualities in a person. Yeah. And I think the thing that he learned and we all learn when we grow things or have a farm or a homestead or whatever is that it will humble you in ways you could not have imagined. Absolutely. Yeah. Because you go in with loads of confidence, don't you? Thinking this is all going to be great. And then it just takes a couple of weeks of bad weather and you've lost your crop.

22:52
or something's too hot.  We planted, got a real thing for wild garlic, so we planted some  a couple of weeks ago and because of this sustained dry weather it looks like we've lost it.  That's what you have to try and get your head around, isn't it? That  not everything you try will work, but you've just got to keep trying  because it's worth it. About two years ago  we were growing  sweet corn.

23:22
I was going up daily and I knew the sweet corn was going to be ready any day soon and kept checking and I was thinking tomorrow this sweet corn is going to be perfect. So I went up there to harvest the sweet corn. We've got badges on the site and the badges are just totally, they've eaten all the sweet corn but they're also

23:50
destroyed the sweet corn bed and just scattered about it.  I stood there and I just didn't, literally didn't know if to laugh or cry. And I couldn't believe I was  that emotionally moved by a vegetable and  losing a vegetable. But I took comfort in that I'd contributed to the wellbeing of badgers  and

24:18
The badgers had been fed well  and they were happy. But  I'm  mentally scarred and I can't grow sweet corn. And I struggle to eat sweet corn now because the badgers ate my sweet corn. But that's how you know and it's right. Badgers come for it.  That's how you know you care about that sweet corn.  Oh my.  Isn't there something about you can't kill badgers?

24:48
They're protected. Yeah,  are protected.  But  they're big. They are magnificent creatures  and they're beautiful to see. But I was mildly upset when they ate my sweet corn.  Are they protected because they got hunted down to almost extinction? Is that why they're protected? Yeah, there's a big...

25:16
controversy about badgers in the UK at the moment because some of the dairy farmers believe that they spread tuberculosis. So in certain parts of the country, the farmers are licensed to shoot badgers, but there's a lot of pro and anti badger things. Apart from the fact they

25:46
at the sweet corn.  I like to see them. think they're beautiful creatures.  I  understand the  resentment.  I've  got to be very careful because I don't think it's been 100 % proven  that they do spread tuberculosis. But I think there's enough suspicion.  I understand that the farmers who lose their dairy

26:15
um, yields due to the TB, why, why they're so anti badgers, but personally, I think they're beautiful creatures. Okay, cool.  Um, since you brought up tuberculosis, which leads me to bird flu over here in the States, have you guys had any issues with bird flu with chickens? The, on  our allotment, you're not allowed to keep chickens, but with,  within the UK, a friend of mine, um,

26:43
does keep chickens on is  on a different allotment site.  And it's only the, it's about six  weeks, two months ago that the restrictions have been  lifted on the  birds being allowed to be outside. There's been quite a impact on some of the commercial  poultry.

27:11
establishments with the bird flu.  Once again, there's a lot of  people believing possibly there's been overreaction. I don't know enough about it, but there's been a lot of restrictions in place.  Yeah, we've been  kind of going through it here in the States with that.

27:36
We have our chickens here. have 12. We're getting 12 more on Saturday because we can't keep eggs in stock because people buy them in our community from us.  And thank you community for buying our eggs. We appreciate that.  But when my husband said he wanted to get 12 more chickens so that we'd have  eggs for ourselves,  I said, realize you're going to have to put them in different coop for at least a week or so, right? And he said, why? And I said, because if they happen to be sick, we don't want the birds we already have to get sick.

28:06
And he said, oh, well, it's a good thing we have that other shed ready to go. I was like, okay,  we're good.  So  I had other questions about England that aren't necessarily about you growing things.  But I'm going to ask one about you growing things.  Do you do canning? Do you can your produce? Yeah. So we tend to  do, cause we always have massive gluts of

28:35
tomatoes, lots of pasta sauces which are canned.  Then we do lots of preserves, chutneys and jams,  lots of those.  There's a great book called  The Modern  Preserver. you  know, there's like  blackberry and gin jam and  lovely flavours, so I'll get a lot of recipes from there.  Don't tend to do

29:05
anything that hasn't got masses of vinegar or sugar in  just because the worry is,  you know, not just going off but  botulism isn't it? Yeah. I would want that as well.  Yeah, so I do do it but tend to be quite safe,  you know, about what I do and what I preserve. But we give lots away as well so,  you know, we are that mad old  couple that

29:30
turn up at your house with a string of onions  saying, you need these. Please take my produce. Yeah. Exactly right.  And the other thing that I've really enjoyed  started last year was starting to do fruit, gins and vodkas. So  rhubarb and strawberry was one.  Blackberry was another one.  And  they have been  lovely. I want to read current one.  And they have been lovely.

29:58
We don't like waste, you  put all the fruit into the gin or the vodka, leave it for a few months and then bottle it.  And I actually made  a conserve out of the fruit that had been marinating  in the alcohol.  Oh my goodness, you cannot have it for breakfast. But it's  really good. it does go with that, don't waste anything. Kind of ethos.

30:27
It's an after dinner compote, yes?  Have you ever heard of anything like that?  I think it's a brilliant idea. Yeah,  you'd lose the day though if you had it on your toast.  Oh my goodness. Yeah, that would not be  advised, I don't think.  No.  Okay.  All right. So.

30:51
I added a question into the end of my interviews like a week or so ago and I'm asking everybody this question and we're at almost 30 minutes. So here's the question. How would you describe  your experience with this,  with what you're doing? One word.  For me, it's joyous. Yeah,  I'd go for joyous or  I find it relaxing.

31:17
You can have both at the same time. Awesome. And I don't need you to explain it because I've been listening to how happy you guys are  with what you're doing through the sounds of your voices for the whole 30 minutes because you love what you're doing. can hear it.  Yeah, we do. It's special. But yeah, we enjoy it a lot.  And it's something that we actually do together,  which is quite unusual  really. So yeah, we do. We do it together without arguing too often.

31:47
Well, that's good. That helps. All right, Matt and Debbie, thank you so much for your time and what a pleasure to talk to my, my probably relatives in England. Who knows? It's been great to talk to you. Thank you. Have a great day. You too. Bye. Bye.