A Tiny Homestead

Heaven On Earth Homestead

Today I'm talking with Sami at Heaven On Earth Homestead. You can also follow on Facebook.
If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee 
https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes
00:00This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Sammy at Heaven on Earth Homestead. Hi, Sammy, how are you? I'm good. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. So I was, I found you on Instagram.
00:27And I was looking at your Instagram page and your Facebook page and you and I could have been really good friends about 20 years ago. Oh, wow. Because, because 20 years ago, I was doing the same things that you're doing right now with all the preserving food and stuff. And I'm still doing it, but just not as heavily because my kids are grown and it's only a couple of people in the house now. Fair enough. So we could have gotten together and roasted squash and bagged it up and
00:57homesteading and preserving, it would have been really fun. So tell me about what you do. So we are on just about an acre of land. It's actually quite small, but we try to utilize it the best we can. So we started this journey maybe about 12 years ago, when our oldest was almost eight years old. And we're having a...
01:25They were having a bunch of health problems and we were seeing a ton of specialists and taking a ton of medicine. I work in healthcare. I'm a respiratory therapist by trade. And so I was just really concerned and we were at another gastroenterology appointment, I think, for reflux and all kinds of other things, autoimmune related. And I was just kind of airing my frustration and saying, you know, like, I don't understand why my eight-year-old is on eight medicines twice a day when...
01:54You know, my 80 year old grandmother is not even on this much. And he's, he kind of said, you know, well, the only thing I can really offer as a physician is to add another medication for these problems. And I was just so disheartened, but I just wanted them to feel better. So I said, well, you know, is there any
02:16anything non-traditional that we could try. And he said, well, I have a couple of patients who have Crohn's and IBS and other things that have tried an anti-inflammatory diet and they've seen great success with that. So he gave me the name of a book and we bought the book. I read it overnight and my husband went to work the next day when he came home. I had all the food in the house boxed up. He said, we're going to try this for 30 days. We're eating nothing.
02:46that could cause inflammation in the body, we're going to reset all of our immune systems, I bought into it a thousand percent." And he was like, okay, how are we going to do this? And I said, we'll figure it out. I don't, you know, it'll be fine. We'll figure it out. And so we, for 30 days, we ate very strictly anti-inflammatory, no sugar, no dairy, no gluten, no grains, you know, it was no beans. It was all kinds of things that we couldn't have anything of.
03:13And after 30 days, my child went from taking eight medications twice a day to taking an inhaler as needed for asthmatic symptoms.
03:23Good job, mama. And I realized I was inadvertently poisoning my kid with just regular standard food and I was so frustrated. And then it kind of, that's kind of where this journey began and it kind of spiraled into all this. So it's been a long time coming, but we finally, we relocated so we could have some more land and be in a better climate. So we had a longer growing season. And so where we are now.
03:51We have a very large garden. We have laying hens and we do meat birds in chicken tractors. And we have a very beautiful little community here where we live of friends that we've made who are kind of of like mindset. And so we have friends who do beef and friends who do pork and friends who do lamb and goat. And so we kind of all work together to make sure all of our families have what we need and support each other. And it's been just a...
04:20beautiful journey. So it's nice to meet other people who are of like mine because sometimes you kind of get the hairy eye when you explain things in public. Yes, absolutely you do. And we've gotten it too and I just ignore it now. I'm like, you don't have to do what we're doing. You keep doing what you're doing. We're all good. Absolutely. So I'm really impressed that you asked the doc for
04:48different solution and I'm really impressed that the doctor said hey you could you could look into this because a lot of our medical professionals don't don't give you answers like that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Which is why I said good job mama because you were a great advocate for your kid. I'm so proud of you because it takes a lot of guts and courage to stand up and say I am
05:15not okay with the answers I'm getting, I need a different answer to the question I'm asking. Absolutely. And then, you know, once you're on something, you get side effects, and then you're going, is that a symptom or a side effect? And, you know, they just kept saying, well, we could add this medicine or we could do this thing. And really, the only thing that really did help long term were allergy shots. And that was just because they were allergic to everything, grass, trees, pollen, you know, just every single thing.
05:46And we were just astounded when we got the allergy test back. So we did do that and that has seemed to help quite a bit. And so we're happy now they're at college. So it's a little, it's a little bit nerve wracking because we're trying to kind of, you know, we had to pick a college that had, um, you know, anti-allergen dining and you just kind of have to plan, but as long as you, you know, what you're up against, then you, you know, are just diligent about it.
06:15you can make it work. And you know, they wanted to go away to college. So we made that happen. Awesome. Awesome. I love that you've worked this hard for your child. And there's a reason that I say that, um, my parents and I were talking yesterday about the shooting in Madison, Wisconsin. That happened. My dad, my dad is 81. My mom is 78. Okay. I'm 55. They raised me and my two siblings. I've raised four kids.
06:45And we were talking about why this stuff keeps happening. And we came to the conclusion that a lot of parents don't parent, daycares parent. And my dad, he's a really smart man and he's very opinionated and I love him to pieces. And my mom is following in his footsteps. She was very shy when she was young, but she's gotten a lot more outspoken as she's gotten older.
07:13And I said to my parents, I said, you know, I said, when I was a teenager, I didn't appreciate you guys watching every move I made. I said, but having been a parent, now I really appreciate the fact that you parented me. So, so I'm going on a limb here, but I feel like if you're going to have kids, maybe you want, might want to actually spend some time with them and, and care for them and not put them in daycare and spend, you know, maybe 12 hours a week with them.
07:42And that may piss people off, but I'm sorry, it's how I feel. Well, I mean, I absolutely agree. I just feel like if you're going to have children, that's the biggest responsibility of your life is that's your legacy when you leave this earth. You know, and if you don't pour into them everything you can, you're you're missing the mark.
08:03Yeah, and kids are amazing. Like the joy of my life was watching my children learn and become functioning humans, you know? It still is. Absolutely. It still is. Absolutely. And my daughter is the oldest and she's 35 and she called me the other day and she was like, I love my job. She just got a new job like a couple months ago. And it's not a fancy job, it's a job. And she is having a ball.
08:31with this new job and her voice was ringing and she sounded so happy and she's learning new things that she's good at. She was already good at them, but now she's actually putting them into practice with her job. And I was just so filled with pride that she's really coming into her own, you know? Absolutely. And I think a big part of parenting, especially in today's climate is...
09:00Teaching your kids that happiness isn't keeping up with Joneses, happiness is finding happiness where you are with what you have, and that having it all really isn't having it all anymore. No, and the thing is, they used to say, especially about women, you can have it all, you know, when women finally got jobs and had the right to get divorced and to drive and to vote and all this stuff. And the big thing was, you can have it all. You can do it all. No.
09:30Not all at the same time. Not unless you want to be in an early grave from exhaustion and anxiety. Exactly. And I do think. So you're right. Absolutely. And I think that we find a lot of peace and joy in a slower lifestyle, in the homesteading lifestyle. Like I think if I didn't enjoy cooking and I didn't enjoy gardening as much as I do, this would be very difficult.
09:58but I find peace in it. The reason we're called Heaven on Earth Homestead is because when we moved here, my husband is phenomenal at carpentry. It's just a hobby of his. But he built my garden, he built our chicken coops, and he's kind of engineered this, so I tell him he's the engineer of my dreams. But the reason we call it Heaven on Earth is because he would say, what are you doing out here? I'm just hanging out in my little slice of Heaven on Earth.
10:26And that was just kind of our thing together, you know, and I find a deep connection religiously in the garden. Like when I'm struggling and I have questions, I go in there to kind of ruminate and it helps me really think and it gives me that kind of relaxing calm and I'm getting things done, but I, you know, when the beans aren't growing and I'm wondering why aren't the beans growing and I hear, you know, well, the beans aren't growing because you're not nurturing them. I'm like, one of my kids is struggling. I'm going, why is my kid struggling? Well, you're not.
10:56It's kind of the same thing, you know, you kind of get answers through the little things. And so that's kind of where heaven on earth came from. I'm glad you told me that because I was going to ask. I didn't even have to ask the question. You just volunteered the answer. Thank you. So I have questions because I have been where you're at with this whole homesteading thing because we started homesteading on a tenth of an acre. Oh, wow.
11:25over 20 years ago with a little garden and we had flowers and stuff and taught myself to crochet so I'd make my kids scarves and hats and things. And the first time I had something come out right that I did with my own brain and my own hands, I was so happy and high for like a week. And I told everybody, I told my mom, I told my kids, well my kids knew because they were there. I told my mom.
11:55told my mother-in-law, told my neighbors about, you know, oh, we put away, I don't know, 25 gallon bags of butternut squash that we grew from seeds, da da da. And everybody was like, oh, that's really nice. That's cool. And that was it. Right. But I was so excited about it. So when you first did something like that, did you have that same feeling about it? Absolutely.
12:24Absolutely. And I was so excited to talk about it. And I would go to work and at the hospital, and I'd be telling people, I got these seeds from the seed company, and they all germinated. And I was really worried because I wasn't sure if I got the seed mix right. And I would just start going off. And if somebody would ask a question, it was polite conversation. I would go off on a TG, you kind of see their eyes glaze over, like politely listening, but really not interested. And I would get so bummed out. So then when I found
12:50You know, you find your people, the people who are really interested in it and you can geek out together. It's just so rewarding. That's why I started this podcast because I don't have a whole lot of people to geek out over things with right now. And luckily we made some friends who are doing kind of the same thing we're doing and they live five miles away. So, so when they come to visit, it's really fun because they're like we got piglets and we're like what kind and what do you do?
13:17and what do they need and how big are they going to get? And they're like, oh, and they just talk and smile and laugh. And it's amazing. So yeah, having, I don't want to, I mean, I do want to use the word fellowship, but I'm not saying in a religious way, I'm saying in a commonality way is so important.
13:38Absolutely. And it really has, especially where we are now, we moved five hours away from our closest family member to be where we are, so we could have land and be in the right climate and all the things. And it was really hard because we both have very large families to kind of make that jump and just do it. And so when we got down here, we knew nobody. And then we had a baby as soon as we got here. So it was like, we don't have any family, we don't know anybody. And it was so great.
14:08to kind of have people come out of the woodwork and just cultivate a community of friends and kind of turn them into our local family here. And it's been a really cool journey to meet people of all different places in life, all different ages, all different backgrounds, and everyone's interested and we're all learning from each other. And did you see this and you should try this? And it's exciting and it's fun. I absolutely agree. It is.
14:35I don't know about you, but when I get talking homesteading or podcasting, because podcasting is my new baby. I've only been doing it for a little over a year, so it's still new. And I get talking with people who are into those things. It's so fun. And like, my heart gets too big for my chest. You know, I just, I feel like I'm swallowed up with happiness because, oh, somebody gets it. Exactly.
15:03So it's been really neat doing the podcast because I get to talk to people at least three times a week, if not five times a week for at least half an hour about things that I'm interested in, but to people who are doing it differently than I am, which was kind of the point of doing the podcast in the first place. Right. And I learned all kinds of things. And there are a million right ways. Uh-huh.
15:29Yeah. And I learned so much from everybody because I don't necessarily do things the way everybody else does. So they're like, we, we do this. And I'm like, I need to do that that way and see how it works because we're doing it a different way and it's not working great. So Right. I definitely understand that. When we first started doing our laying hens, my husband built this beautiful mobile chicken tractor that had a great nesting spot and it had
15:58like indoor perches and all these things. And we ran them on the grass, just thinking we really don't have enough space to put a stationary coop and, you know, just kind of making the most of what we had. And we realized very quickly that we were going to need chicken math. We were going to need way more. We were going to want way more chickens than we had. And that there was no way in a 32 square foot, two story, you know, mobile coop we were going to be able to get.
16:27the volume that we wanted for what we wanted to do. You know, we have to make our own pasta and we have to make, because what we found out was that our child was allergic to basically all food dyes and all food preservatives. And so we kind of, that's kind of how it all started and kind of how we got to where we are was we had to learn very quickly how to do it all ourselves. Because in 2009,
16:582010, there was really not a ton on the market that you could get that was organic and didn't have food dyes. And that kind of became trendy later. And so we needed more eggs. And so after it painstakingly took months to engineer and build this, we used it for a year and realized, oh, we could better utilize these chickens in a stationary coop with deep bedding to make compost for our ever growing garden and alleviate the middleman.
17:29We live in pine country, so we can get wood chips free at any point in time. They'll deliver them right to your driveway because they, you know, any of the leftovers when they're milling in an area, they just bring it to us. Nice. So it ended up working out, you know, for us to have a stationary coop. So we use the mobile tractors now for our meat birds. But so, you know,
17:51And we thought at first all, we'll just have a couple on the grass and it'll be fine. They'll get fresh grass every day. And they're very happy, but we needed more chickens than it could sustain. So I definitely understand you kind of sometimes you have to work through it and find out what works for you and you don't make it work. Yeah. I feel like homesteading is an ever evolving process. Yes. It's never done. It's, it's a, it's a running document of ideas. They get tried out when they need to get tried out. Yes.
18:22when it becomes a necessity to change the procedure, then you change the procedure. Yeah. Honestly, the way that you are doing your life is beautiful. I mean, we definitely don't eat the way that you eat because we're not in that situation. We don't have a child and we don't have any food aversions or allergies or reactions that would require us to do what you're doing.
18:50We definitely utilize the stuff that comes out of our garden in the summer because it's really good food and we're going to use it. Absolutely. So, I was also going to ask you about the little wreath ornament that you have the picture of on your social media. I made those when I was younger in Girl Scouts and I saw it and I was like, oh, I've made those. So, where did you find out about that?
19:20undiagnosed ADHD until I was 35. But hindsight is 2020. So I realized when I was about six years old, both sets of my grandparents, I spent a ton of time with both of them. I had two working parents and I was a latchkey kid. So I would, you know, my choice, I didn't want to be home alone. I'd spend a ton of time with my grandparents. And so I realized now that I'm older, I had so much energy and I was bouncing off the wall. So both of my
19:48needle craft. So I learned embroidery, I learned knitting, I learned crocheting at a very early age and it's just kind of been a passion throughout my life, you know, and it's easy to pick up and put down as you need it and I enjoy doing it, especially in the winter when there's not a ton to do outside. But
20:06Probably about the same time that we started doing all this, we started going on, I started going on medical missions trips with the church that we were at at the time. And so in order to fund that, I was making baby blankets anyway for the girls at work, but they said, you should make hats and scarves and fingerless gloves and all these things and sell them. So we started making hats and gloves and scarves and selling them. And that was how we would fund the missions trips.
20:34And so it kind of became a thing amongst all the people that knew me was, Hey, if you need something as Sam, she can make you a baby blanket or a hat or a scarf or a gift for someone. And so when I started doing this, I was kind of going, okay, well, at certain times of year, I don't really have much to post. We're not really doing a ton because the preservation is over and we're not quite ready to seed anything and there's not a ton going on. So.
20:59I was asking friends at work, you know, what do you want to see now? Like, because we started the page because especially during COVID, we had already been doing all of this. And so people were getting very nervous and scared and they were saying, you know, well, how do you do this and how do you do that? And how do you do this? And I was repeating myself at nauseam at work. And the one nurse practitioner at work was like, you should just start a YouTube page. And I was like, I don't know anything about YouTube. Like I watch YouTube, but I don't know how to.
21:26I don't have a fancy camera and I don't know how to edit. It just seemed like so much of an undertaking. And she said, what about photographic posts on Instagram or Facebook where you could kind of say how you do things or put up a recipe or however, information. So if people are interested, they can kind of get a bite of information every day. And I was like, oh, that's a great idea. So we kind of hemmed and hauled over it a little bit. And finally I said, all right, I'm going to do it. And so that's kind of how it all started. So I was saying, well, what do you want to see now? And they were like...
21:55You never post anything about your crochet. So I kind of take pictures of stuff as I do it. And on those days that I don't really have a ton to post, I'll pull one out and kind of put it out there. And so, um, one of my friends has a stall at a farmer's market. And, uh, she was saying, you know, this time of year, we don't, they don't have, they, they sell grains and beef and other things, but they don't really have a ton coming out either in their stall is year round. So she said, I know you make beautiful stuff. You know, if you have anything you want.
22:23to put up, I'm making hodgepodge and craft stuff right now for Christmas. So she said, if you want to, you know, add anything, let me know. And so I just kind of got a huge inspiration and I was like, Oh, let me look online and see anything I could find. And so I've been making all kinds of different baubles and things for the tree. And I found a picture of that and I was like, I could do that. I have a ton of old rusty canny lids that I have no nothing to use them for, but I've been holding onto them. So I'm like, this is
22:52a great way to utilize those and not waste them and then.
22:57someone else can enjoy them. Yeah, we made them with the actual rubber seals that they used to have for the canning jars. Oh yeah. That's how we did it. And it made them kind of bendy, which was nice. And the other difference in how we did it from what I saw on yours is my mom was co-leader. So she picked up some of those little tiny jingle bells. Yes. And she had us sew three jingle bells on the wreath so that when they got knocked, when you walked by the tree, they would ring.
23:27That's so cute. I love that idea. Yeah, and the minute I saw it I saw the picture. I was like, oh my god I remember making those I think I was 12 and It was the first time I'd held a crochet hook in my life was when we made those and girls to make those that's so neat Yeah, and they're so cute and they're so easy and yeah Grandparents love those kinds of ornaments Absolutely, absolutely
23:56So they're very old fashioned and very homesteadish. So I think it's just great. I do. I love that aesthetic. So we kind of, we didn't really buy into it for a while, but now I've just owned it. There's mason jars everywhere and braided garlic and the whole nine. Yes. Mason jars are the best thing ever invented. I swear to God, I use them for my peony bouquets in the springtime. I use them for spruce vows at Christmas time. They're just, they're just the most
24:27What's the word I want? I can't think of the word I want. Versatile. Versatile, yes. They are the most versatile container ever known to man. Absolutely. We just, well, my husband just canned 34 pint jars of tomato sauce from the tomatoes that we picked from our garden and froze. He just did that this weekend when I was working on podcast things. I was so impressed. I'm like...
24:55I'm like, you know, if you could just wait till next weekend, I can help you. And he was like, I got it. Go do the thing you love to do. I was like, okay, perfect. I'm going to go do podcast stuff. And I came downstairs and he had 34 jars. Well, I had, he had the sauce cooked down for 34 pint jars. And I was just like, Oh my God, I love you. You're the sexiest thing ever. Right. And he just laughed. I love language.
25:20He just laughed. He said, yeah, he said, we're both 55 years old and the sexy things are hard work. I'm like, yes, yes it is. That's exactly right. Absolutely. Absolutely. The other thing I was going to say about Christmas ornaments is one of the other things that we did in Girl Scouts, because I of course went down the memory train when I saw the wreath. We took Christmas cards and cut like a house shape out of the picture on the Christmas card. Oh yeah.
25:50And then we took little toothpicks and made a little roof and little walls around the edges. And those were really cute too for Christmas. That sounds adorable. My kids would love that actually. Yep, and they're really cute on the tree. And if you get one of the Christmas cards that has the metallic stuff on it, the glitter or the paint that is shiny, when the light hits it, it glows. So they're really pretty.
26:18That's cool. We're definitely gonna have to try that Yeah, and I swear we have lost so many neat things like that in the last I don't know 30 years I feel like it. Oh, I feel like kids don't get encouraged to be creative anymore No, they just sit in front of the TV and watch somebody else do it And it's so sad because I feel like
26:45You know, we were made for creation. Like, I just feel like that's, I think that's why I enjoy this so much because it's so cool to, you know, plant a seed and see it grow and come to fruition and make something out of it. And, you know, it just, it's very rewarding, but at the same time, when you're eight or 10 or 12 or whatever, you know, something as little as making something, it gives you fulfillment. It gives you that happy, joyful fulfillment. And at the same time, it gives you great memories for later.
27:14Your kids aren't going to remember watching YouTube or, you know, watching somebody else do something, but they're going to remember when you sat down and made shrinkadinks with them or, you know, made a wreath or something. Yeah, there's, I feel like kids are lacking a sense of personal accomplishment in the smallest ways these days. Absolutely. Like my youngest son still lives with us and he'll be 23 at the end of this month.
27:43And he and his dad, well, his dad was building a greenhouse this year, hard side of greenhouses past May. And he asked for our son's help. And my son was like, sure, of course. And they basically built this greenhouse. It's like 40 by 20 feet. They built it. We had a friend come over and help one day.
28:08And he was not very experienced. He was, the help was very much appreciated, but he was learning as he went. So he helped, but my son and my husband basically built this gorgeous greenhouse. And my son came in just smiling, you know, just like, wow, that was really hard work, but it was really great. Absolutely. And my husband came in and he was like, thank God we had that kid late in life because we need his back. I was like, yes, we do.
28:37It's very helpful, that is for sure. So even when they're young adults, just being involved in getting their hands on actual work and doing it and seeing the result, there's such a thing that happens inside their brain and their heart. Absolutely. My mother's parents had a farm, and so I spent a ton of time on their farm as a kid.
29:06primarily vegetable farming. And we would spend all day outside. We never went in the house. There was no air conditioning. And so you didn't wanna go in the stuffy house. And it was just an unconscious thing. You just went with them and did whatever they did. And you helped and you learned and you weren't in imposition. And at the end of the day, you were tired because you worked and you slept well and you woke up the next day refreshed and ready to go. And I feel like the...
29:35kids today don't really get that. They get kind of parked in front of something so we can get something accomplished fast. Because I feel like today is about efficiency and productivity and all these things where before it was pouring your knowledge into the next generation. And so I think we kind of have, my husband and I kind of have a unique, maybe not unique, but less road, less traveled kind of background. Because my husband spent a ton of time on his.
30:04sister's in-laws farm when he was a kid. He was a late baby in life too, so but his siblings are a lot older than him so he spent a ton of time with them. He was young doing work on the farm as well so I think we kind of both have that in common. Yes, and I realize that it sounds like we're trying to convert the world to doing it the way we're doing it and I don't necessarily think that. I just, I feel like if you have
30:33the capability to maybe slow down and think about what you really want out of life and then make a plan to get that, then maybe you're inclined to do homesteading or gardening or baking or whatever and make that a thing. If you're not inclined that way, that's okay too. You know? Absolutely. If you want to be a double income family and you want to have your kids be in daycare,
31:02and you want to try to give them things that you didn't have as a kid and you spend time with them on the weekends, that's fine. But that's not how we did it. It's not how you're doing it. And it's not how a lot of the people that I talked to on the podcast are doing it. So I don't want to alienate people, but I also want to be compassionate about everybody's place in their life, that they're doing things the way they do them. Absolutely.
31:32And it doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. You know, if you don't have any desire to garden and you don't like bugs or heat, you know, because the reality of gardening is it's beautiful in the spring and it's great in the fall. But in the summer, when it's a heat index of one hundred and eight, you don't want to be out there. You know, you have to want to do it. You know, if you just want to do some sourdough in the house or you just, you know, you just want to try something, it's it's rewarding. Try it. You know, baking or.
31:58You know, whatever, you don't have to do it all. It's, you know, I have some friends at work who were talking this weekend and they were like, I just want to learn how to make butter. I'm like, okay, go to the store and buy some cream and here's the post. And here's how you can do it. It's so easy, you know, and they're like, wow, I didn't even realize that's how it was made or brown sugar or, you know, just something easy. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing, but it's very empowering to have that little bit of knowledge and just know I can do that if I wanted to.
32:27Yes, and the thing is anybody can try anything. And even if it fails, there's value in the trying. Because you learn from your mistakes. Absolutely. I didn't walk out of the gate gardening of 2,500 square foot garden without some losses. You know, the first year I guarded, I put all of my eggplants like eight inches apart, and then I put my zucchini like a foot apart and they were
32:55all over each other, they were riddled with disease. I couldn't find them. And then when I found the zucchini, they were like 10 pounds zucchini. You know, what if you do it? This, you know, it's just kind of, that's just life. And you kind of have to laugh at it and go, well, next year I'll play them further apart. There's always next year. That's the best part. There's always another try. So even if you fail, laugh at yourself and try again. You just, you just made me think of something. Back when I was in junior high and high school,
33:24I was pushed real hard to be perfect on my tests and my homework. Like if I got A on a test, like if I got 100%, I would get the question, why wasn't it 110%? And I don't think I'm the only kid in my generation or the next couple that got that. I wonder if we have been programmed that if we can't do it right the first time, it shouldn't be done.
33:53I feel like that is definitely a lesson I also learned later in life. I think there was a big shift in the 80s and 90s to, you know, where manual labor was kind of looked down upon and you have to go to college and you have to get a power job and you have to push yourself and, you know, kind of like you said, that was when women were two income families and everybody's working. And I feel like that was definitely a big, a big thing. Set yourself up for success. And you know,
34:22start out strong and all the things. And I think a lot of people kind of are accepting the slow down now as a result of burnout from that. And realizing that there is value in working with your hands and creating something or learning a skill and it's okay to be proud of yourself for making a mistake and learning from it.
34:46And I think that's just the symptom of society that I think a lot of people are finding joy in these simple things because they're tired of the difficult and the, I don't even know what the word would be, the competition. There was always competition. Everything was so much, you have to be the best and why aren't you the best or whatever it was. Even among my friends in high school, I remember it always kind of felt like a competition.
35:15And it never had to be. And I think that was a big lesson I learned having kids and raising them in the way that I wanted them to know that it was okay not to have a competition. And you're just running your own race. And as long as you're happy with where you're at, that's all that really matters. Yeah, exactly. And again, you're pointing out something else that I hadn't really thought about until I talked to you today. I don't feel like there's a whole lot of competition
35:44between people who are doing what we're doing. I think it's more lifting each other up and teaching each other and being there for each other. Absolutely. And the wonder of learning, you know, there's 25 ways to do every single thing that we do. And even more, if you think about all the different climates and the different places and altitudes, and you know, kind of all of that, there's so many different ways to do something. So there's always a cool, different way to see how someone does something and learn from them.
36:13or just get excited for them. Like you said, you're doing what you were doing, what we're doing 20 years ago, and you can be excited for what we're doing now. And I can look at you and say, man, in 20 years, my husband and my son might be building me a 20 by 40 greenhouse. And that would be so cool. And that's a joy. That's a cool part of this. Yeah, it's amazing, because I look back at the things that we were doing.
36:4020 something years ago and we were just doing them because it was interesting and because my husband's mother said, would you like some of the irises and the lilies from my yard because she was selling her house. And we didn't have a garden or anything at that point and we put them in the little area in front of our bedroom windows that run it on the sidewalk and they grew and they were beautiful and I was like, this gardening thing is kind of cool. Right? It is.
37:09And I said, could we maybe try growing some tomatoes and cucumbers next spring? And he's like, where? And I said, in the backyard. And he said, but it's all grass. And I said, can't eat grass. And he laughed. Right. And we ended up tilling up that whole backyard and growing basically in every square inch of dirt we had so that we had tomatoes and cucumbers and carrots. And I don't even know green beans and rhubarb and herbs.
37:37and stuff and we started out really small and really slow. But by the time we moved four years ago, we had enough food to give our neighbors garbage, not, not, not, grocery bags of produce because we had too much. Absolutely. So it's, it's really interesting how the things that we do are cumulative in impact.
38:05You know, you learn to do one thing and you have some success and then you're like, huh, I did that. Maybe I could do more or different or bigger or whatever a year from now. And you just keep growing, just like plants keep growing. Exactly. And there's always something new to learn or try. So you stay fresh, you know, it stays exciting. Yeah.
38:39I think that's one of the coolest, I just think that's one of the coolest things about it is that it stays exciting. You know, like I said, my grandparents had a vegetable farm. My other set of grandparents were first generation immigrants. My grandmother was from England and they met during World War II. And so she had a very unique way of doing things that seemed very alien to me when I was young. But I loved it. I thought it was super cool. You know,
39:07she always harvested rainwater because they didn't always have a hose. And she always composted because England was a small island and they weren't bringing a lot of things in. So if you didn't compost, you couldn't grow your victory garden. And she always had a victory garden, but she had this beautiful stair step flower garden.
39:33which was such a difference from my mother's parents who just had vegetable fields everywhere. There was no flowers in their yard. There was no, if you couldn't eat it, they couldn't grow it, which is what made me think of that. But my grandmother would grow, you know, she had berry bushes and she had, you know, she had a little greenhouse and all the things, but her primary joy was to flower garden and have just beautiful landscaping. And so it was cool, cause I kind of got both sides of it. My grandmother just did the things that she did
40:02my father's mother did things that she learned growing up in England during that time because that was just her normal. That was her comfort. And so I learned a lot of that as a kid just because that's what she did. Whereas my mother's parents were growing more for production and sales. They had a roadside stand and we sold produce. And so it was kind of nice to get both sides of that and see it.
40:32And so when I grew up, I, you know, we were in that Excel, Excel, Excel. I had no desire to garden or any of that. I was going to school and I was going to get a good job and I was going to work and I didn't have time for that. And I just kind of, we kind of hit that, that wall with our oldest. And I was like, you know what? I'm so stressed out and I feel like maybe if I just had a little bit of home with me, it would be cool. And I just put it in a little garden and that's kind of...
41:00where the piece of the garden came from for me. But I, so I never vegetable garden or I never flower garden until we moved down here. And it kind of started for me as there was a few flowers and bulbs in the landscaping when we bought our house here. But I really wanted to encourage pollinators cause we grow organically and we don't use any pesticides or herbicides or anything like that. And so
41:28I wanted to encourage pollinators. So I just started planning any, I would get wildflower mixes and I would get any kind of cheap seed packets I could find and just started throwing flowers all over the landscaping. And now the flowers are a must. Like if they, I might not have enough room to plant all the vegetables I want, but we're going to definitely have the flowers because they bring me so much joy and they're so nice to just have a little piece of them in your house and just smile at them when you walk by and you know, when the
41:57Sunflowers are eight feet tall and staring at you in the evening. It's just very cool. And it wasn't something that I, I set out to do, but it was, it just kind of evolved with the process, but something that small could just start. You know, you could just, like you said, just throw some bulbs in and, and enjoy cut flowers from them or, or whatever. Yeah, absolutely. We didn't have any flowers here when we moved here four years ago. There were hostas.
42:25And I keep saying this on the podcast episodes, but there were hostas here. I don't love hostas. They're fine, but they're not the prettiest flower I've ever seen. And as soon as, as soon as I realized that there were no flowers here, I was like, honey, we have got to get some kind of flowers here. We had brought peony roots from the old house. So I knew we would eventually have peonies. So we got those in and we got some, uh, lily bulbs from somebody for free. And we put those in and we bought tulip.
42:54and daffodil bulbs and those came up the following spring which made it a lot easier. But the thing is in the springtime nothing's really growing yet you know and we bought crocus bulbs too because they're the first thing that really comes through in Minnesota because it's cold here until April. Oh yes!
43:16And so when the crocuses came up, I had never seen a crocus in person. I thought that they were a bigger flower. They are the daintiest little flower I've ever seen. And my husband came in and like, I think it was the first part of May, very first part of May. And he was like, there's little tiny like lavender and yellow flowers out there. What did we put there? And I was like, I don't know. Did you take a picture with your phone? And he said, well, of course I did. And showed me, I said, those are the crocuses.
43:44He said, they're this big. And he showed me with his fingers. He said, they're tiny. And I said, yeah. I didn't know they'd be that small, but how cool is it that we have flowers first? Right. And the other thing is that when you garden, I had no idea that potato plants have the most beautiful blooms. Yes. They're gorgeous. They look like flowers you would cut and put in a vase, except they're really short.
44:14And the sunflowers. Oh my God, we planted sunflowers two summers ago. My son wanted to plant sunflowers. I was like, sure, we've got an acre of garden we can put in sunflowers. That's fine. And they are so joyful. Like people joke about, you know, sunflowers being happy. They are. They're a happy flower. They are. They really are. So I understand what you're saying about
44:41you know, even if you don't have enough room for everything that you want to put in that you can eat, you're still going to put in flowers. I can't not have flowers on my property. I have to have something homey. So I get it. All right, Sammy, we've been talking for almost 45 minutes. I try to keep these to half an hour. So I'm going to let you know. And thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I've had so much fun talking to you. It's been great to meet you. You too. Have a great day. Thank you. You too.
45:11Bye.
 

Muddy Roots

Today I'm talking with Jess at Muddy Roots.
If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee 
https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes
00:00This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Jess at Muddy Roots in Boston, no, near about Boston, Massachusetts? Yes, Boston, Massachusetts, but located in Dorchester. Okay, cool. Yeah.
00:24Awesome. So what's the weather like in in Dorchester? Because it's really gray and overcast and kind of chilly in Minnesota today. Yeah, looking at my window, it's about the same. I mean, we had like a pretty delayed start to our winter. So that was great. But yeah, it's gloomy. It's cold. You know, we're probably get snow soon. And that's what it is until, you know, till March, April. Yeah, I understand.
00:50we're actually supposed to hopefully get a little bit of snow because really we haven't had any and we are coming up on Christmas next week. And I'm like, okay, if it's got to be gloomy, can we at least have pretty snow falling? You know? Well, that's what I said. I said to my kids at work, I was like, God, like, have you had like, have you had a snowy Christmas yet since you've been born? And they're like, no, you know? So, hopeful for that too.
01:13Which is insanity because I grew up in Maine and I don't remember not having a snowy Christmas in the entire time Until I moved out of the state when I was 21 22 So Just the fact that that new england is not having Consistently white christmas is so weird. Well, it's not and I moved here almost four years ago and since then like
01:41you know, the warmth of our winters and the fact that we really are like compared to what it used to be, barely getting any snow. I mean, we used to have 12 feet of snow, six feet of snow, and now we're lucky, you know, now we're lucky if we get a couple inches snow, you know, and I grew up in New York in Long Island, and I remember being little and small and going out into the snow and it coming up to my to my chest, you know, and growing up having these
02:10you know, massive snowstorms every year that you kind of got to look forward to. You get to take them from school and, you know, with the way the climate's going, that's just not happening anymore. Yeah. And there's lots of people who don't believe that climate change is a real thing, but I think that climate change is real. I think that it's definitely here and I think it might be a little too late to fix it, so I'm, I'm kind of worried about it, but
02:37I'm going to make the best of every day that I have alive on this planet. So that's where I'm at with that. So tell me about yourself and what you do. Sure. I mean, so we started or I started Muddy Roots. I mean, I started Instagram for myself to find an online community of what I was going through, which was chronic illness at the time that was undiagnosed and being a woman and just how long that was taking for me to understand what was happening. And so I sought.
03:06community and I found a bunch of young women going through similar things, right? Just being young and it taking so long to get where you need to be. So in that time I had started that for myself, but was also at my wits with you know medicine in general and I've always been a gardener. My last name is gardener. My dad always used to bring us outside to our yard, force us to garden every year and do a vegetable.
03:33Garden and plant all the flowers and just say, you know, your last name is Gardner and you will do this And you know, this is in Long Island, New York And I so I grew up like that right your parents Sometimes force you to do these things and you grow up and they just become part of who you are and you continue them You know, you don't start to stop doing them You learn to love them and appreciate them and you know, thank your parents for it later so when I was going through the midst of my illnesses and things like that and
03:59you know, there really was no medication from me to help my pain, I, out of pure desperation in order to function and have some semblance and quality of life, went to my garden. And I started going herb by herb for what I was growing. Sage, rosemary, oregano were like mainly the three things that I started with and noticed that like, they helped my pain significantly when other things weren't. And that kind of led me down this rabbit hole.
04:29Like if I was never taught about this, if I didn't know about this, if people don't talk about this, and this was almost 10 years ago, what else don't I know? What else can I find just by growing more, experimenting, being inquisitive, you know, and trial and error, really, you know? I wasn't like, I didn't go to school for this. It just was happenstance and desperation that I fell upon this. So yeah, muddy roots kinda.
04:57started as a way for me to treat myself and also connect with a community of women and help people advocate for themselves and their body as I was learning to do that for myself and help women gain access to not only Western medicine, but other holistic options that I saw effective, you know? And we would kind of piggyback off each other, you know, because all of us were young and wanted to have a life worth living, you know?
05:25Yes. And when you say oregano and sage and rosemary, do you mean eating them or do you mean teas or do you mean tinctures or all day above? I started with tincturing and now I, so yeah, it really depends like what I'm going to use it for, right? If I have a UTI, I'm going to use a tincture. If I have gastric upset, there's other herbs I'm going to use and I'm going to use that mainly like from a tea.
05:53Yes, or you can put these things in salves and use them as muscle rub. So it really depends how I'm going to make it for what part of my body I'm going to use it for. Okay. Yeah. I was just curious because we did not have an herb garden this year. We didn't even really have a garden this year. The weather was horrible. All of May and June, it rained and rained and rained, and our garden was just a sad mess this year. But up until this year...
06:21For three years straight, we had the most beautiful herb garden and we had rosemary growing, we had thyme, we had sage, we had, oh my God, I don't even know, all the usual suspects. And what I do with that is I cut them and dry them and put them in my pantry and we cook with all those things. Yes, yes. And so we eat a lot of our good for us herbs. For sure. We don't really do tinctures or teas. That's like such another way to just, an easy way to incorporate.
06:50these things into a daily diet, right? They're not just seasoning. Yes. So yeah, for sure. Yeah, we do that as well too. We dry, you know, we have our garden in the back and we're lucky we live in Boston and we have a yard and my husband made me a garden last year so I can start using. So what we try to do at Muddy Roots, or I try to do anyway, is we set up our garden, we grow everything and we
07:19shutdown shop for the most part when we're done with our garden for the year. That way we don't source out and unless somebody personally comes to me like, hey I like this product can you make it for me? Like you know then I'll do it but that's for the most part except for our skincare we keep that going. Fire cider I do all year round. But salves and tinctures normally stop probably by March and then start again come June. So it's a short window that it's not going on.
07:49Okay. Yeah. All right. So I have a very specific question for you because you live in Massachusetts and I live in Minnesota and every state is different when it comes to the rules and regulations about what we people who aren't factories or businesses, you know, big businesses, can make and sell. So what do you have to do to be legal to sell the things you make? I mean, mainly as far as skincare, it's all good as
08:18as far as you're accurately labeling, now it's tricky, you know, when it comes to fire cider and things like that. You know, that we can't sell at pop-up shops and things like that and I don't. You know, if people come to my house, they want a fire cider, I'll sure I'll make it for you and you can have it. But we don't sell that without a license. Okay. Yep. It's very tricky sometimes when you're trying to help people but the government is like putting handcuffs on you and saying,
08:47No, no, no, you have to pay for this license and you have to take this test to be sure you know what you're doing and blah, blah, blah. So. No, I read, you know, and obviously like for sure things need to be regulated, but you know what? You know, they also regulate, I mean, you know, it's also the Twinkie, you know what I mean? The FDA approves the Twinkie. So. Uh huh. No, I know. I know it's so. It does need to be regulated. People do need to stay safe and they do want, they do need to know what they are ingesting and they have the right to know and you know, all that, you know, so I get it.
09:17Yep, I just here in Minnesota, we don't really, we have to label everything. Like we make soaps, we make lip balms, we make candles, and even the candles sort of have to have a basic label that says what the candle was made with. And that's only because of fire hazard. But for sure, soaps and lip balms, we have to put every ingredient on them. Well definitely. And...
09:42If anything, I mean many reasons, but for one being allergy purposes, right? Like sometimes sunflower is used or other oils and there's lots of kids. I work with them with sunflower allergies, you know. So it all depends. Yep. It's just all part of having a business and playing by the rules and trying to honor and respect and have compassion for the people that are going to be using your products. Now anybody with that being said is a...
10:12welcome to come into my home, sit down, have a cup of tea and pick my brain and I'll give you any advice you want. I'll set you up with a plan, you know what I mean? And you know, go from there, you know. I, um, which is what I do for like most of the things that I sell, whether it be a T or tincture, you go home and I ask that you journal and you tell me like, how do you feel on this? What is your differences? And I want to know for like the next month, whether we continue or not, or do you need something else, you know?
10:40That's amazing. I love that. I can't say that everybody does it, but I do. But that's how I learned herbs, right? Because you think of, well, when you get to know herbs that are aside from your garden and your pantry, and you learn that there are thousands other out there to kind of experiment with and learn about, it's kind of like a daunting task, right? How am I gonna learn?
11:04all these things and I feel like I'm still pretty early in that even though I've been doing it for 10 years and researching and experimenting for 10 years there's always more to know and how the herbs interact with each other and all that and it's like just super daunting. So I read like about a couple of years ago you take one herb and you just try to really focus on that herb and you get to know that herb and experiment with that herb alone without adding it with other things and see how that makes you feel you jot it down before you start doing combinations and all that because then it's like you don't know.
11:33It kind of all gets muddled. Yeah. It's kind of like when you start, well, you don't have kids, but I do. It's like when babies start eating solid food, you start them on one new thing at a time so that you can see if there's any reaction to it. Right. Yep. Cool. I am impressed. I think that that is wonderful that you say that the people that you help should keep a journal of how they're feeling. Because number one, it makes it easier for them.
12:02but it gives you some feedback on what really works and what doesn't. And if they do have certain symptoms arise, I can probably find out why or what is it, are you someone who naturally runs low energy, high energy? If I'm going for an example of, or even heart rates, like if you're someone who is naturally a tired person and you don't tell me that and I give you Hawthorne.
12:28you're going to be sedated. So these are things I need to know so I can give you a different herb for maybe the same thing we're trying to treat that's just going to make you feel different while doing the same job. Yes, because someone who's naturally not high energy and you give them something that's going to make them sleepy, that's not really a great plan. It's not gonna work. And there's so many, there's so many herbs, luckily actually, that kind of do similar things, right? So if one doesn't work or you have this effect from this one.
12:58and we're trying to work on like blood pressure and things like that. So and you're taking it and you're sedating, there's a bunch of other words that we can use that's going to maybe even boost your energy, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm gonna throw this in because it's one of the things that I learned about an herb and it has nothing to do with people, it has to do with cats and dogs. Catnip, catnip. Oh yes, it grows wild in our yard and we've had like.
13:25stray cats coming and we have a dog but we've seen this stray cats in our yard. One of them I know from like a mile or two down the road and it's found my yard. So you know. Yes, catnip makes cats crazy. It makes them hyper and crazy and stoned and it's really fun to give some to your house cat. But did you know that it's a sedative for dogs? It calms them down.
13:51Yes, and it's great for their GI tract. I started using herbs on my dog, one of them being catnip too, when he was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel. I just started thinking, oh my God. And I asked my doctor in a holistic about what can I use and the things that were told to me I had in my cupboard, things I use on myself. Yes. But yeah, catnip is great and it's great for humans. And it grows wild here. I mean,
14:20Wild, I mean, when I plant it. I don't know if it's native to here at all, but it does grow crazy in my yard. It grows wild here when we're not in a drought. Yeah. If it's dry, it doesn't grow. But the reason I discovered this situation about the difference between how it affects cats and how it affects dogs is we had our beautiful favorite dog, Spade, three years ago. And she was...
14:48about three and a half years ago, she was about six months old. And they gave me some medicine to keep her calm because she's a mini Australian shepherd and they're freaking crazy. And the medicine they gave her, one of the side effects is hyperactivity. I'm like, you gave her something to calm her down and it might make her even worse. And so we gave it to her and she was, she was being her normal crazy self and she had a spay incision that was fresh. And she actually ripped a stitch.
15:17We had to take her back in and make sure that it was okay and they fixed the stitch. And so I looked up things that I might have in my home that she could eat or, I don't know, drink that would calm her down. And I found out that catnip would work. And we had catnip and she had tried it before because she got some from when we gave it to the cats. And I put some in my hand and she smelled it immediately, came over and licked it off my hand and ate it.
15:47And within 10 minutes she was laying on the floor, completely calm, tongue hanging out, just relaxed. I was like, huh, herbs are great. I love herbs. They're wonderful. And one thing I do notice, I mean, with some of them, you'll notice pretty immediately how it's going to make you feel. And I'm not anti-prescription or anything like that. But I know that if I take rosemary and I want to treat low energy brain fog, I know
16:17or ADHD symptoms or things like that, I know that within an hour, I'm good. You know, I can feel the difference from just a strong rosemary tea and how it affects my mental alertness and my energy and my brain. Yeah, peppermint and spearmint do that for me. Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah, it clears my brain immediately.
16:45I don't know why. It just does. Well, that's the thing too, right? I mean, well, same with medications is like how it interacts and how your body metabolizes. It is so different. You know, I spent, I spent, I guess a little like brief, I'll get into it a little bit, but I spent like the majority of my childhood and young, a young adulthood on things like Ritalin, Biobans, Adderall.
17:09Prozac, Wellbutrin, like, you know, all these things, right? And then when I was 27, I decided actually the year before I got into herbs, you know, I decided I'm going to for like the first time since I'm like literally four years old, clear myself and get off all these things and like kind of see what happens for the first year. It was like super difficult. And, you know, literally the detoxing that went on with me from things I didn't even abuse was horrific.
17:37and I'm not gonna tell somebody not to take these things, but for me that was like my experience and it really freaked me out, you know? And I started looking into my herbs and thinking like, what can I do to replace this? Because it's crazy that we grow up. The issue that I find mainly is that Western medicine and things like this are not combined and they should be because it's opening so many other doors for people.
18:06to treat themselves, you know, and make choices for their body. And when one thing fails, you have a million others. And it's not like that when we're not educated, when we don't know that these things are available and may work for us. Yes, I think that they should go hand in hand. And I was just talking with someone else on a podcast episode a week or two ago about the fact that Western medicine and...
18:35our doctors don't like your general practitioner isn't going to say I think you should go visit an herbalist unless they've had experience with an herbalist. No and what led me well actually what I'm not sure I first seeked my first herbalist maybe like
19:00six years ago, I want to say. And it was such an eye-opening experience. And then years after that, like maybe four years ago, a couple years after that, I started getting really bad GI symptoms. And I was somebody who had IBS. It wasn't severe or anything. But what I was experiencing was like dropping weight.
19:26I couldn't eat anything, my stomach was in so much pain, and I kept running to my GI, and I kept saying, like, this is not normal for me, and I literally cannot function. I borderline almost have to leave my job to give time to myself to figure out why this is happening, because I can't do both, and to be in that position, not for the first time in my life, but to run and ask for help and have nothing to hold onto and no hope.
19:54you know, when your life is suffering. And I went and I saw a naturopath and it changed my life, right? He changed my life with food. He changed my life with the supplements and the herbs that I was taking. And in six months, you know, I was fine, you know? And in that time, it took also my doctor six months to believe me and to run, or no, eight months I was fine, but two months before that, it took him the six months to run a test I was begging for with upper GI scope. That's all I wanted. I wanted...
20:24And answer, of course, he kept telling me I was fine. And what did he find? Erosive gastritis, you know, with pre, like, you know, precancerous like things in my stomach. So I was just like, that really led to me to, I don't wanna say not trust because every practitioner is going to be different, but to be very open-minded to when you're not getting help, go seek it elsewhere, you know? You have to advocate for your body because not everybody's going to do that for you. Yes, absolutely.
20:54and especially as women. I have talked about this a couple of times in episodes. I'm not gonna get into it too far, but if you are a woman in this world, especially in America, if you're not getting, if you don't feel like you're being listened to, definitely look for a second opinion. For sure. And I had a, so after they found like the precancerous cells and the changing in the erosive gastritis, he's now, you know, then he's like, all right, now you need a scope every one and a half years.
21:22I go to my next scope, right? I had been on herbs this whole time, you know, and was pretty like non-symptomatic in my upper GI. Everything was good. They do my scope and they tell me everything's back to normal. There's nothing there. Nothing there, no pre-cancer, nothing. And they said, what did you do? I said, herbs and fire cider. And they said, what? And I said, herbs and fire cider. And they said, okay, we'll see you in a year.
21:50I mean, in a year and a half, right? We'll do it again just to make sure. And if you're clear then you don't have to come back unless you develop issues. And I said, is this normal for this to happen? And they said, no. I'm like, all right. So even if you tell them this is what you're using because they're not trained in it, there's nothing they can do. There's nothing they can say. They can't even say like, they can't even recommend it to somebody else, right? It's not regulated. So they, you know, it's to them, it's like, oh, you know.
22:17you know, good for her, but when the next person comes in and they're struggling like I was and they, you know, and you know, they don't have help. They need to be trained in both modalities. I stand by that. They have to be. Well, maybe in 50 years, that'll be the norm, but right now it's not. And isn't there a line, patient heal thyself? Yeah. And I think part of that comes from the fact that we know our own bodies.
22:45best of all, right? We may not understand what's going on or why it's going on, but we know when things are not normal. I should tell my doctors, I've lived in this body X amount of years. I know when something is not right. And it's so hard when you know that to be sent home and to be told constantly to come back in two weeks if it doesn't go away, you know? Like, especially now after COVID.
23:12I mean, I saw a drastic decrease in the level of care I was getting. Forget about wait times with specialists and things like that. I'm talking like being able to get tests. I'm talking the time I get in their office or anything like that. Like it's been really, really difficult, you know, for me to find proper PT and other things that I used to have that helped me, you know, a lot of things I do come out of pocket, unfortunately, now so I can receive.
23:40good care. But I really do think like the more people podcast about these things, the more women speak up, it's going to be forced to change somehow one day. Yep. And I, this is going to sound really dumb. My podcast isn't necessarily about health in particular, but it's about all the things that kind of support health, if that makes sense. Right. Yeah. So what you're saying is important.
24:09What can you do with the things that the earth gives you to help yourself? Right and there are so many things like Raspberry red raspberry leaf tea is one of the things that I heard about a lot when I was pregnant with my kids Yes, and elderberry for supporting your your respiratory system and
24:34There are so many simple things that don't really cost anything except your time to learn how to use them, how to prepare them, and the time it takes you to harvest them. I think because we're not raised to be like this, right, quote unquote, homesteaders, which is such a vast word in how you choose to go about what you do with your land and your time and your resources. You know what I mean?
24:59It does seem daunting. It seems daunting to me, and I'm sure it seems daunting to a lot of people who are not raised like this to go out from the way we are expected to live in society and go attempt that, right? It just seems even though making these things is, it's pretty easy once you learn and you know, it's not hard. But the idea of it seems like I can never do that. Yeah, but people go to college and spend
25:27hours and hours and hours cramming information into their brains to spit it back out on a test and find out they're never going to use that information again. For sure. I went to college and I dropped out after six years of like trying to get this degree and finishing 80% and leaving and moving to another country and living there and just trying to figure out, you know, this is not it for me. I need to, I need to figure something out. I need to, I need to.
25:56I need to do something else. You know, I didn't, it's funny too, because years ago in high school, they make you take those aptitude tests, right? And I went to college for fashion and on my aptitude test for like what career you'd be best at, it came back as nurse and a farmer. And I was really pissed off because I had just was getting about to spend all this money. And I had been interning for years even in the fashion industry before I got into college. And I was like, well, this is not correct, you know? And if you think about it, what I'm doing now is,
26:24Am I a farmer by any means? No. Do I garden? Yes. Am I a nurse? No. But do I help myself and try to help any woman who comes into my path asking for it? Sure. So in its own way, it was kind of correct. You were a caregiver and a nurturer and the tests showed that. Sure. Yeah. Great. I love it. I took those tests too. And for me, it was singer, writer.
26:53or broadcasting. And now you're broadcasting. Yeah, and I actually write too and have for years. You know, I've been publishing a couple magazines and... That's amazing. Stuff. So, the aptitude tests are sometimes they're pretty dead on even though you don't think so. It's crazy because, you know, I say like to myself personally, right, when I think of myself as an 18-year-old entering the world and you think sometimes. And maybe people, some people...
27:23know more about themselves than I did, right? But I decided to go to FIT. I went to school in big New York City and I was somebody who hated big cities and didn't like to be around a lot of people. And still, you know, there's so many times in my young adult life where I knew things about myself and I didn't listen to what I knew about myself and just did what I thought. I'd make money, give me some level of prestige.
27:53um, whatever that be. And then you grow up and you realize, man, like, it's hard, man, sending an 18 year old to college and telling them, what are you going to do for the rest of your life? You need to figure out within the next couple of years and hopefully stick to it. It's difficult. I don't advise it, right? You know, I don't know. Yeah, I did not go to college and my teachers were very upset with me. Really?
28:20Oh, I told my English teacher, my senior English teacher, that I was not going to college. And the teacher I'd had for two years in a row, the two years before in AP courses, advanced placement English courses, the lady that had been my teacher for two years in a row, she said, so where are you going to college? And she said, there's a school in Maine that you could go to that's really good for writers. I will write you a reference letter. And I said, I don't need one because I'm not going.
28:49I remember. Oh, yeah. She had tears in her eyes. She said, Mary, why you're so smart. And I said, because I know myself well enough to know that sitting in a lecture hall for the next four years is not where I want to be. Yeah. And I didn't know these things about myself. Like I knew certain things, right? But I didn't understand a bigger picture here of like many, many things.
29:17And it's interesting because so much of growing up, in my opinion, is kind of growing up, evolving, and then for me specifically, unevolving, right? And getting back to the root of who you are and the things you love. My garden. You know, being in just empty spaces, taking walks, and trying to, the best I can in this society, to slow everything down. Yes. I've been trying.
29:46And you know what is really hard? Like we live in Boston and I want so badly to get out of the city more than anything. And, and I have an Oasis where I live and I'm so lucky, but I know I'd be better off with. Space and land and less people and less noise and traffic and yeah, just a different type of life.
30:10Well, you don't sound like you're old, so you have time. Sure. Yes, I'm 37, so I've got time. I've got time. But sometimes, you know, when your jobs are here and this is here and that is here, it feels hard sometimes to just bite the bullet and leave. For us, it would mean like starting over in many ways. Yes, and that's really hard. And what I will tell you, because we sort of did it on a small scale four years ago.
30:39We left our cute little tiny house, not tiny house like tiny house, but our 850 square foot house, sold it and moved to a 3.1 acre place in the middle of corn fields and soybean fields about half an hour from where we used to live. And it wasn't a huge change because it was only half an hour away from where we used to live, but we don't have the option of having food delivered to where we live, no one delivers this far out of town.
31:09Um, if we want to go to a real place to go shopping, like a Sam's club to stock up, we have to drive half an hour one way or 40 minutes another way where it used to be 15 minutes away. Um, there are, there are big things that happen when you move in a big way. Like if you move across country, that's a huge change, but even half an hour away to a place where
31:35our nearest neighbor is a quarter mile away. That was a humongous change for us. Yeah, I mean, going from Long Island to Boston, I didn't think it would be such a big change, but I didn't grow up in the city. Yeah. You know, so.
31:51So it's been a big change.
31:56But yeah, yeah, it's, I'm ready to get out of land and, you know, make more herbs and make more things. And I think back to three years ago, and like even, yeah, three years ago, I didn't know how to make a single thing. I knew things about herbs, but I didn't know how to make a single thing. And I just randomly started experimenting. Not even for medicinal purposes, I started with soap.
32:23Oh my goodness, is the dog okay? Yeah, I see.
32:33He hates steps, so he cries. Is he a hound? No, he's a poodle. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I hope that's okay. No, I don't. I can always edit it out, it's fine. Oh, good, oh God, that's like not the first podcast that I've been on where he just like is quite loud. No, I love dogs. Anyone who has listened to the podcast knows that I adore dogs because my dog is my favorite thing on earth right now. Same, yeah, my dog's helped me through. He's just come with me everywhere he's helped me through.
33:03through so many things. Yeah, it's so silly because we have the most beautiful home. We are so happy where we live. And we got this dog like a month or so after, well, two months after we moved in. And she was eight weeks old. And she was the cutest, sweetest thing. And she has just continued to be the cutest, sweetest thing in my life. And I feel like the crazy dog lady, not the crazy cat lady.
33:30Yeah, I'm the crazy poodle lady. I always say this is going to be my last poodle and then I get another poodle. Well, this was the first puppy I've ever owned. So, so it's been a very big experience for me having a puppy that I have grown into the most wonderful dog ever. So it's a big thing for me. I love her and I talk about her way too much. So we have been talking for like half an hour and I really do try to keep these to half an hour. But.
33:59I want to go back to the college thing real quick. Yeah. I think that if you are really interested in becoming a doctor or a lawyer or something that requires a huge amount of education to acquire the dream, college and university are incredibly important. Totally. But I feel like if you're not going down that road, it costs a lot of money to get
34:28an education beyond high school. And if you can't ever pay back that money with the job you get, it's kind of pointless to do that. Yeah, and I think about, you know, when I was 18 and I went to college or 17 or over old, I couldn't see myself doing anything else but fashion and it was what I loved, you know, until I did it long enough and...
34:54It kind of hit me like when I decided like, listen, I've been in college six years and I'm not I'm 80% done. I'm not gonna finish this degree. For me, it was like, coming to this, I didn't know how I was going to do it. But I didn't want to be in an environment. And it's interesting how it ended up working out. But I didn't want to be an environment who where you help women by addressing their outer appearance. And that's like, what really hit me when I chose like
35:23I'm having such a hard time getting through this. And that was like the nail in the head for me to, and that started with like how I felt in the industry with myself and how difficult that was. And I saw how that was affecting me and my mental health and my body image and things like that. Like I can't sit here and be healthy and do this. I guess I can finish my degree, but if I do, I'm still gonna go elsewhere.
35:49So for sure, I think like, listen, if you have a passion and it involves college and you really wanna do it, do it. But okay, and I feel like many people don't, not many people say it's okay if you wanna take a break or you don't wanna go that route or you wanna try something else and see how that works for you. And there's no shame in that because you just never know what's going to happen. I didn't think that me saying that I wanna help women and myself by not focusing on their outer appearance.
36:17appearance would lead me 14 years later making, you know, tea from my garden, skin care from my garden, fire cider from my garden, helping women when they reached out to me with their diagnosis and, you know, finding them good doctors as I found them for myself. You know, like I didn't think that was where it would take me. I didn't know, you know, what would happen. Yeah, life is a wild ride. You never know where you're going to end up.
36:47I'm going to tell you, I have met some incredibly beautiful people doing this podcast. I see people, they show up and they're on camera and I tell them they shut the video off because video never see light of day. And I've met beautiful people in real life who do grow gardens or who are homesteaders or farmsteaders or farmers or whatever. And I'm not saying beautiful as in aesthetically pleasing. I'm saying they know who they are.
37:16They don't give a crap about what other people think unless those people are in their corner. That's right. Beauty is literally on the inside. And so I can see how with you trying to help yourself and other people, that outside beauty kind of lost its luster for you. Yeah, it really did because it's so interesting. Like, you know, we just got married in September and, you know, that was the first time in however long.
37:46that I dress up, that I put on makeup, that my hair is done, that I'm not in my sweats and my boots and, you know, just chilling where so many years ago, my sense of fashion and how I creatively portrayed my sense to the world was so wrapped up in my overall being. And now it's not that I don't love it, it's not that I don't have it inside or that I'm not a creative person, but I don't hold onto that and say, if I don't portray this to the world, right, I'm not good enough.
38:16Yeah. So you know, like planning my wedding for me really was like my everything I left behind in that way of being creative, right? With fashion and style and we didn't use a planner, you know, I did all that. You know, kind of giving that to the world and then that's over and going back, you know, to how I am. Sweatpants, sweatshirt, glasses, messy bun in my garden, making stuff in my kitchen. Uh-huh.
38:44I think that's gorgeous. I think that's absolutely wonderful. All right, well, I'm gonna let you go because we're in like 38 minutes. And Jess, keep doing you. Do what you love and do what you're good at. All right, thank you so much for your time, Eda. Oh, you're welcome. It was a pleasure. Thanks, have a great day. You too.
 

O'Connor Family Acres

Today I'm talking with Tracy at O'Connor Family Acres.
If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee 
https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes
00:00This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with my friend Tracy at O'Connor Family Acres. Good morning Tracy, how are you? Good morning Mary. I'm doing well. Thanks. Thank you. How did you guys fare with all this crappy weather yesterday? Yeah, I stayed home.
00:28We were supposed to go somewhere and I was like, nope, I'm going to stay in the house. Paul went to work though, so he had to venture out, but he did well. He just took it slow as we do in Minnesota. Yeah, no doubt. So this is yet another hyper local episode. Tracy lives like maybe five miles from me, maybe in Le Sueur. So I have to tell you, we're doing homesteadish stuff today.
00:58Who? What are you doing? Well, I started that, that black garlic thing. That's the fermenting thing. And that's been going for three days. So my kitchen has smelled like garlic for three days. And it's got to go at least another couple before I can even open it to check it. And Kyle and Cameron are downstairs, um, basically heating up all the tomatoes that we froze to get ready to can them into sauce. So.
01:27My house smells like an Italian restaurant right now. Oh my gosh, I love it. I love canning tomatoes was new for me last year was the first year I did it and absolutely love the smell. And I'm excited to hear how your black garlic turns out because that sounds super interesting. I was listening to your episode where you talked to the guy about black garlic and I was very intrigued. So yeah. Yeah, I will have to give you some so you can try it.
01:57Awesome, I would love that. Yeah, I think there's 15 heads of garlic in that machine right now. So if it works, I'll have some to share. Nice, nice, nice. I will reciprocate with, you know, well, something. Goat milk in the spring would be awesome. Absolutely. That's a, well, that's a hopefully a for sure. We have a new buck this year. So.
02:22And he's pretty young, so hopefully he did what he needed to do so we have babies in the spring. And that would be wonderful. And on that note, tell me about yourself and what you guys do at O'Connor Family Acres. Yeah, thank you so much. So we are, you know, a small homestead. We have about almost six acres. And we moved here to the homestead. This is going on four years now.
02:51We started with ducks and we actually started with ducks in the city-ish. So city-ish. We were in Medina at the time on an acre and we started with maybe six ducks. And it was during COVID, of course, because we didn't have anything to do. And we're like, we had been talking about when we buy our forever home, getting
03:20you know, some animals and really kind of not completely being independent, but controlling at least some of our food and how it's being, you know, handled, processed, what goes into it, all the things. And so we started with ducks. And then when we moved to where we are now, O'Connor Family Acres, those ducks multiplied greatly. And we also got goats.
03:49And this year we added pigs. So we're kind of we're not really at a point where we're you know Consistently selling we'll sell something here or there But we're almost to the point I would say this next year if our buck did what he was supposed to do will be at kind of a tipping point where we can maybe start selling some stuff and the idea is to you know provide for us provide for our family and
04:18you know, maybe offset some of the feed costs and, you know, the money that we're putting into it by selling some of the abundance, if you will. So. Awesome. I'm glad that that's the case because I don't, it's fine if you just have a homestead or a farm or whatever and you're just doing it to provide for yourself. But that never quite works that way because some years you will have an overabundance and you're like, what do I do with all this?
04:47Oh, for sure. Absolutely. I mean, in the spring, because we do have so many ducks now, I'm literally trying to give eggs to people. I'm like, Oh, it is so nice to see you. Thank you for visiting. Would you like a dozen eggs? Yeah, we used to do that with the chicken eggs, because we just had so many we couldn't use them before they would go bad. Yeah, exactly. Duck eggs and zucchini. Zucchini is the other one I'm always having abundance of from the garden. We do have a garden too.
05:17I'm always like, oh, would you like some zucchini? It was actually amazing to me this past summer when Kyle was selling at the farmer's market in Lesour that people bought zucchini. I was like, are you serious? You don't have neighbors who are just putting it in your car or in your porch? Well, and not everybody does, right? So that's kind of the beauty of it. And you guys have amazing vegetables. So I always love coming in and seeing the...
05:47the garden and now the greenhouse and all the things. And of course seeing you guys too, but. Yeah, it's just the stuff. It's not. Kind of like when you have kids, right? And they're like, I come to see the kid. Well, also you too. But then when you have a homestead, it's like, I come to see all the animals in the garden. Oh, and you too. Yep, exactly.
06:12So our garden this year, you know, did not do real well. We had some zucchini for a while and we had tomatoes after the third planting. And I'm very excited about the fact that we actually did get some tomatoes to make sauce out of and we're doing that today. But keep your fingers crossed that next summer's better because man, this was a very depressing year for the garden. Yeah, it was a rough, it was a really rough spring.
06:41And I think our saving grace was that we had the raised beds, which can be a positive and a negative. It was nice that it wasn't white. I mean, we still had some stuff that struggled for sure, as we do every year. And part of that is just we're still learning too. I've always had at least containers. When I lived in the city, in the city, I had a little salsa garden with
07:08containers of tomatoes and peppers. And then when we moved to Medina, we added some raised beds and now we're here. We have two, four, six, eight, about 12 raised beds plus some space. I plant pumpkins on the side. There's some asparagus, rhubarb, some of the things that you definitely put directly in the ground.
07:36So long story longer, that was kind of our saving grace this year. It does limit you, I think, a little bit on the quantity because you leave space and there's only so much room. But for controlling drainage and things like that, it is definitely helpful. Yeah, my heart broke for you guys this spring for sure.
08:01Yeah, ours too. It was very sad. Like we shed some tears over that four or five weeks of rain. Yeah. So I have a question about your asparagus, but I also want to ask you another one after that that has nothing to do with asparagus. Yeah. Was there asparagus there when you moved in or did you guys put in crowns? Yes and yes. Okay. So this was actually kind of funny. So Paul tilled the garden.
08:31How did this go? He tilled the garden, said he had to buy a torch so he could burn the garden, tilled it again, and then I planted asparagus. And it's so funny because where I planted it is kind of, of course, on the edge of the garden because I know asparagus spreads like wildfire. Oh, yes. And just to the left of that was...
08:54asparagus coming up that spring. I'm like, first of all, how did that survive our garden Armageddon? And then also, yay, I have extra asparagus. So that was kind of cool. And so that asparagus that was there, were you able to harvest some right away? I think not the first year. And I don't know if that's because we went crazy on the garden or if it was because...
09:20Um, it was newer, like maybe the people before us just put it in. Um, but last, this last year was the first year we were able to really get some asparagus. So it took, it was the third year. Yeah. I keep hearing that it takes three years for it to get established. And I have the same experience. This is the first spring that we've been here that we've gotten more than like, you know, eight stems. So nice. Nice. It is though my, um,
09:49Grandma's, my grandma's place, which is now my aunt's place, has an asparagus patch that's been there probably 50 years. I mean, I remember getting asparagus as a kid and my aunt still gives the family asparagus every spring. So it's a, I mean, once it's established, kind of like rhubarb, I know you had a really awesome rhubarb plant. It stays.
10:18Yeah, we actually haven't gotten a whole lot of rhubarb from the stuff that we put in when we put it in the fall. We moved here for years ago, 2020. But the rhubarb plant that was here when we moved in, the one little rhubarb plant they'd put in, we got some this past spring from that. And it was pretty good. Cameron ate a bunch of it with the, you know, dip the stem in the sugar and bite it. Oh, yeah.
10:44Oh yeah, that was one thing we planted too a couple years ago when we moved in was the rhubarb plant. And the first year it did not do well. The rhubarb plant was like, no thank you. But then I replanted a different one the next year and that one came back last year. And I'm hoping this year we'll get to harvest some stuff from it. So fingers crossed because I love rhubarb.
11:10I do too and it's how I know string is actually here when there's enough rhubarb to cut and put with strawberries and boil with sugar and make a compote and have it either on toast or on ice cream. That's when I know string is officially for sure here. Oh yeah, so lovely. Yes, and we do it every spring. If I don't have rhubarb growing, I will buy rhubarb just to make it. Yeah, it is. Yes, yes, and all the yeses.
11:40Okay, so my other question is, and I ask this almost of everybody, were you, like, I don't know your upbringing, I should, we've been friends for like, two years now, but were you brought up around farming or gardening or whatever? So we, I grew up in the suburbs, so directly no, like our family didn't, we didn't even really have a garden, honestly.
12:10trying to think back, we grew up truly in the suburbs. Around, it was Hamline, so it was north suburbs and it was kind of a development that was built around farmland, if you will. So I've always been farm adjacent. And my grandparents on my dad's side were farmers. So we would go down to the farm.
12:36you know, a few times a year, a couple holidays, and then sometimes we'd go and stay with them for a week in the summer. So I did have exposure to farming from that. And then when I started my container gardens and growing tomatoes, I got more and more interested in it. And so it was kind of always, I had a childhood dream to have a small farm.
13:03at some point in my life and then, you know, life kind of does what it does and you know raised my child and then you know, I got married. Paul and I just celebrated our eight-year anniversary and then we moved to our forever home and that's really when it started to take place. We started to talk about it as we were, you know,
13:30talking about getting married, it was like, where do you wanna live? What does our life look like? And I had really started to get into understanding more about where our food comes from, sustainable farming, and just really eating healthier and being healthier. And so that's really what drove it. Okay, did Paul have any background in it beforehand? No, ma'am. Okay.
13:57He is from England, the northeast of England, so kind of a harbor area. And he played professional soccer from the age of 16. So he was very much playing and traveling and doing all the things and then coaching. He had small gardens as well too in his adult life, but nothing, no exposure to farming.
14:26you know, as we know it. Okay. Yeah. Um, so I'm going to poke a little bit of fun at Paul just for a second. Paul would have been part of this interview, but Paul has the thickest British accent ever known to man. And when he's excited, he talks really fast and it's hard to understand him. So that's why he's not talking. He's also working right now, but yes, he has an extra. Yes. He does have a very thick.
14:56British accent that he has kept for sure. And it's northeast, so it's not what people traditionally think of here in the U.S. when they think English accent, they think more south. South England, so more London area, the posh south, they would say. But no, he has very, very northern English accent for sure.
15:24Yes, when we were talking about this the other day, I told you he sounded like he had an English accent mixed with a Scottish brogue. Yes. And his voice is fairly deep. So it's really easy to listen to him when he's talking slowly, but when he's excited, he just runs all his words together. I'm like, what? Yeah. Well, and we have a, I mean, we would probably run over if I gave you the full story, but
15:52We met when we were kids. I mean, I was 17 and he was 19 and then had separate lives. And then through, you know, kismet, fate, whatever, reconnected probably about 10 years ago. And listening to him speak was, I've always just absolutely loved his accent, loved the, you know, tenor of his voice. So anyways. Yeah. Yeah. And he is
16:21He is a really nice man. And I think that his accent is really sexy, but that doesn't help me if I can't understand what he's saying. Yeah, you don't have to understand. You just have to listen. Yes, and if I was in the market and he was single, I would probably listen closer. But since he's not single and neither am I, and I love you and I love my husband, I'm not playing that game. So.
16:49Agreed and agreed. Love you and love my husband and love your husband. We're one, I mean, just really great people. It's always nice to connect with great people. Yeah. And I was so thankful to find you because when we moved here, it was during COVID. You guys, I don't think you guys were here in 2020. I think you moved to your place in 2021, right? I think that is correct. Yeah. I'd have to look back, but yeah, I think so. Yeah. And having moved from small town, Jordan,
17:17you know, half an hour northeast of us. Yeah. In town, that quiet and not really seeing anybody was very welcome for the first year or so. Yeah. Yeah, I listened to the episode about community and it's so true. We have amazing neighbors, which is just super wonderful. You know, and then also to have...
17:41Connected with you. I mean I consider you a neighbor even though we're you know five ish miles apart Yes, that's how you are in the country right my neighbor For my vegetable farmer neighbors is what I is when I do your full title what I said Yes, my friend Kathy who lives like two miles away calls me Csa Mary because that's how she's oh there you go. There's the full title, right?
18:07Yep. Yep. She has three Marys who are friends of hers. So she's like, I have CSA Mary, I have whatever Mary, I have the other Mary. And I'm like, okay, I'll take CSA Mary. That's fine. That is awesome. And I think you call me my friend with goats, right? Most of the time. Yeah. But it was funny because I was on Facebook and stumbled across your page and I was like, Conner Family Acres. Okay. And then I...
18:34you know, scrolled through the page and I was like, I need to meet this lady. I need to reach out and say hi. And I did. And here we are two years later. Yeah, I was so glad. It was really nice. It was nice to connect. And it's been nice because we're both, I think, you know, learning in our journey, which is awesome. So it's kind of like, Oh, did this work for you? This worked for me. What are you guys up to today? You know, what's new? And I know
19:02Paul and Kyle connect a lot and talk about structures and farming and how's this going to work out. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's really nice for Kyle to have someone to talk to who is male and gets into that stuff because he talks to me about the wood burning furnace and I'm like, as long as it throws heat, I'm good. Exactly. Kind of like, why don't you give Kyle a call?
19:32Talk shop with somebody who has the same parts as you do. It'll go better, I promise. Exactly. Yes. So anyway, a big mutual admiration society going on here. Sorry listeners, but this is what happens when friends have a podcast episode recording. So I was looking at the description on your Facebook page and it says Nubian slash Kiko
20:00So does that mean that they're a crossbreed? Yes, we have. So we have some Nubian Sonins actually, and then we have a purebred Kiko. And so we have a little, kind of a little bit of both going on. Our buck had papers, but he passed this last summer. He was a purebred Nubian. And so his son is now our main breeder.
20:29um, and is a Nubian, he'd be two thirds, no, two, three quarters Nubian and a quarter Saanen. I had to do the math there. It's not my strong point. It's okay. So what's, so what's a Kiko goat? Yeah, the Kiko are more meat goats. Um, and honestly looking at her, you probably wouldn't, I mean, she just kind of looks like the other goats.
20:57I think we had her when you were over last. She's the all brown one with a little bit of black socks. Yep. And literally she looks just like the other goats, but she's more of a meat goat where the Nubian and the Saanens are more of our dairy goats. But we bred her this year, so I'm super interested to see how she does, with the birthing first of all, but then also what her offspring look like, and do we get...
21:26some decent milk from her. I'm interested to see all the things, which is kind of fun. That's the fun side of homesteading is getting to kind of go, how does this work? Yeah, absolutely. Homesteaders are incredibly innovative. You're like, what would happen if we did this? Absolutely. And we're certainly obviously not the first people to crossbreed.
21:53Nubians and Kiko by any means I think that's fairly common because you kind of Get you're supposed to get the best of both worlds, right? So you get dairy and you get meat And so it's kind of a good combo of goat But our Kiko Miss Mabel was a little bit of a runt and so I'm interested to see if her offspring are gonna be full-size
22:19you know, will they give good milk, which that we won't know for a few years yet. But it's kind of fun. It's kind of fun to think it all through. And then Paul and I had conversations about do we breed her, do we not breed her, because she was kind of a runt. But she's a good size runt, if that makes sense. She's not like 100, I wouldn't say she's 100 percent, but. And from what I've read, because I do a lot of research online, you know.
22:46Sometimes they can have full-sized babies and sometimes they produce other runts. So we'll see what happens. Well if you end up with a runt or two, maybe I can talk to Highland letting us buy them from you. Oh my gosh, that would be so fun. I don't think I can, but I would love to. Yeah. Okay, so I know you guys got piglets back.
23:12last spring was it? This spring, yeah, absolutely. So that and that was kind of the cool part, the goats, we were finally at a place where I'm like, okay, I think we can sell some of these goats. And we had been talking about getting turkeys and pigs were the next things we wanted to add to the homestead. And I was talking with a lady online about what I was talking to a guy about turkeys. And I was talking to a lady about pigs.
23:40and she wanted to trade some of the baby goats for the baby pigs. And so I was like, perfect. I love, love when we don't have to come out of pocket cash for buying new livestock. Barter is fabulous. Exactly, barter is definitely the way to go. So we bartered some baby goats for some baby pigs and we now have Magna Lista pigs, two of them. One male that has been
24:09no parts, and then we have a female. And so the plan is to keep the female for breeding and the male will be at some point processed. Food, he'll be food. Exactly, exactly. Okay, so how old were they when you got them? They were probably six to eight months. I'd have to look back at the dates, but they were about six to eight months and the goats were about the same age.
24:35Basically, at the age where you can, you know, where they no longer need the mama. Yeah. Okay. So, they weren't little baby tiny piglets when you got them. No, they weren't newborns by any means. Yeah, it was kind of funny because when I said we were bringing home pig, you know, baby pigs, they're big. These are big pigs. They should get up to upwards around 300-ish pounds. And, I mean, that's not...
25:00in the world of pigs, that's obviously not the biggest, but it's big for us on our little homestead. I'm like, oh, these guys are going to get huge. And we went to pick them up and we saw the mom, the mamas and the daddies. I was like, oh goodness, these are going to be, yeah, these are, these get big. Um, but they are so sweet. Like I have just been with the grand, we have a grand kid who is four and he was just in with them the other day, um, petting them and you know, kind of.
25:29checking them out and they're still at a size where he can do that. They're probably about the size of a lab right now, like a really gigantic, chubby lab, but you know, lab body size or height, I should say maybe. So he was still able to do that, which was kind of fun. Cool. So the reason I asked how old they were when you got them.
25:54is because it's really hard when it comes time to put down an animal for food. And if you need me to come and stand with you or hug you when it's done, I can do that because I know you're probably going to be sad. Thank you, Mary. That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely losing an animal, any animal, the ducks, the goats, it's not fun by any means,
26:24you know, it's part of the circle of life. And, you know, I always, people always ask me if I'm getting, you know, like an ostrich or something. And ostriches have their place, but you know, everything on our farm is, maybe ostrich isn't a good example, like mini, mini, you know, mini horses or something. And I'm like, everything on our farm has a purpose, right? They're either guarding, de,
26:51rodenting. The cats are little, you know, de-rodenters. They produce food or, you know, they have a job. Everybody has a job or a purpose on the homestead and that's why we're feeding them. So, but thank you. I would, I love that. It is hard to lose animals. It's especially hard when it's not planned and it's predators or something else that can be.
27:20challenging and difficult, you know, and frustrating because you feel like, you know, you're setting everything up for success and then, you know, there's always mini setbacks which are, you know, just an opportunity to learn and change the way you're doing things. So we've definitely pivoted a few times on the farm. Yeah. And it's hard even when you don't feel a particular connection to the animal. Yeah. We had...
27:48four or six, I can't remember, chickens at the old house years ago. And it was time for them to no longer be part of our yard. And we were going to eat them. We were going to call them and cook them, but they were not meat chickens, so they were not worth cooking. And we, I made myself go out when they were dispatched.
28:13I made myself go out and watch the process because I was like, if I'm expecting my husband and my sons to do this, I should probably at least be here for it. And I didn't cry, but man, that first chicken, I teared up. And I had that big thing in your chest where you feel like you're going to really sob, but you don't. And I don't even like chickens, Tracy. They're not my favorite creature on earth. So it's just...
28:41it's hard when you see something lose its life. It doesn't matter what it is. Yeah, no, I fully get it. The first few ducks that we dispatch are always a struggle and then you kind of get in the swing of it. But, you know, it is emotional and it's really hard when it's not planned. And you know, I think...
29:06to your point, even when there's not a connection, you know that those animals are in your care and you're responsible for those animals. You know, kind of like we talk about barn cats a lot, right? Even though we know that the, you know, the success rate of a barn cat is probably not as high as some other animals, you still are sad when something happens because those, they're in your care, you know? So yeah, it's interesting.
29:36the joy of baby kittens and baby goats and baby ducklings and hopefully one day baby piglets. It'll be a few years, but I'm kind of excited for that too. Well, you know, it definitely overshadows the trials and tribulations. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like living in Minnesota. We live it. We suffer the winters to enjoy the spring, summer and fall. I think it's the same kind of perspective.
30:03100%. Yeah, sweet. Yeah. Well, and there are, I mean, there are people who absolutely love the winter time in Minnesota for sure. But I am on your perspective there with I tolerate the winter because spring, summer and fall are great. Although Paul got me a pair of snow shoes two years ago, which was kind of not perfect timing because last year we had no snow and this year we're struggling a bit.
30:32Yeah, still waiting to get those snowshoes out there. Yeah, absolutely. So we're at 30 minutes, but I wanted to share a thing that I did yesterday for listeners. I made a designated website for the podcast yesterday. I love that. I'm so excited. Congratulations. I'm going to have to go check it out. Yeah, it's a tiny Very original.
31:00But I'm going to be doing blog posts about every episode. And that way people can get a little bit more background on the people, you know. And if there's stuff that gets mentioned like the Kiko Goats, I can do a little aside in the blog post about what a Kiko Goat is or whatever. So it just gives me a little leeway to play and to get back into writing a little bit. So if you guys wanna check it out, it's atin And it's got the whole list of episodes on the...
31:30the episode page, like it's all there. So you can just click and listen. Awesome. I'm so excited to go check it out. Thank you, Mary, for sharing. It's super cool. The particular website platform that I found is so user friendly. Oh, nice. I think it's Webador is the name of it. And I opened it up and looked at it and went, oh my god, this is easier than any other one I've ever used. I'm so excited to dig into this. Nice. I'll have to check it out because we do have
32:00I did a little of that with Paul's coaching to set up a website because he's an independent contractor and the one we used was also very user-friendly but had some limitations and so I'll definitely check out the Webador. That's very cool. Yeah, I'd never heard of it before. I think it's actually Weebly, W-E-E-B-L-Y, but it's Webador is the thing that shows up when you actually sign up for it. Okay.
32:28But I'm very much in love with the way it worked. And it only took me like an hour to get it set up. Nice, well congratulations, that's awesome. Yep, and I'm gonna be screwing around with Instagram over the next week to start promoting the podcast on Instagram because I'm bad at Instagram. I don't quite understand how to use it, but my daughter loves it. So I'm gonna hit her up for a couple hours this week and be like, can you show me how to do this?
32:56Yeah, I wish I could help you with that one, but I too am bad on the Insta. And I know, I know it's extremely popular and I know it's really good for your business. Um, and I, I need to, I need to get into it both for my jobby job and for my, my farm life. Yeah. I just, I don't know how people do all the fun things I see. And I'm like, how did they do that? I don't even know where to find how to do that. So.
33:21My daughter does all kinds of stuff with Instagram, so I'm just gonna be like, hey Sandra, I need your help. Can you help your old mommy with some new technology? Kids are the best. And once she shares with you, then I'll pick your brain. I do know, I do know there's a way to kind of tie some platforms together. So when you post on one, it posts on multiple, which is really nice. It's helpful, it sure is.
33:49Alright Tracy, I want to talk to you again this fall after the summer. Yeah. And oh yeah, we're going to be making the duck that you gave us next weekend. Good, good. Oh good, I hope you love it. It's yeah, it should be good. Let me know. Keep me posted and I would love to talk to you again and we can update how our respective gardening season was. Yes, and we can talk about the dispatching. No, we're not going to be dispatching the pigs for a while.
34:18The mail will be this coming fall. So yeah, if we talk again in the fall, it's about 18 months. And so we would have had them about 18 months. So I'll give you an update on whether that has happened or not happened. Yeah, exactly. I think that would be really good for people to learn about because it's a process. For sure. Thank you so much for your time, Tracy. I really appreciate it.
34:46Thanks for having me, Mary. It was great to talk to you. Have a great weekend. You too. All right, bye. Bye.
 

WoodFlower Farm

Today I'm talking with Emily and Clayton at WoodFlower Farm.
If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee 
https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes
00:00This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Emily and Clayton at WoodFlower Farm. Good morning, guys. How are you? Good morning. We're having kind of a terribly gray yucky day here in Le Sueur, huh? Yes, yes we are. It's that snow sleet.
00:29kind of mix today. It's really gross. My husband and son would normally be outside doing anything to not be inside and they actually decided to clean out our closet and our pantry this morning. I was like, oh, please do that. That would be great. That's a good task for today. I would love that because I have things I need to do. So you guys find something to keep yourselves busy and do something really productive. That would be great.
00:54So Emily and Clayton live not even a mile from me, I don't think. And I didn't even know about you guys until I saw you on Instagram, which is crazy. I should have known, but I didn't. So tell me about yourselves and what you do. Yeah, well, you probably didn't hear about us because we're pretty small and this is, I think, our first official year. We're just a small husband and wife farm and homestead, and we are in Le Sueur, Minnesota.
01:24And we started our farm with the goal to grow flowers and also some veggies, maybe pasture raised meat and farm products for our local community. Okay. And have you lived there long as well or is that new too? Yeah, that is, that's kind of a story. We so I grew up in Le Sueur. That's where I'm from. My parents still live here.
01:54but we have only lived here for, I think this is our second year. Yeah, our second year, yep. Okay, cool. And I don't wanna ask a rude question, but do you have like an acre or do you have acres? Yeah, we have technically right here where we are. This is my parents' land. So we moved back.
02:21to Minnesota, well, back for me, first time for Clayton. He's from Wisconsin. We moved here after living in Colorado for a little while. And when we moved back, we thought we would move into this house because my parents own the house and that it would be very temporary. But after living here, I think it was about a year that we decided that we like it here. We were really struggling to find
02:51a house, it's a very competitive market. We were also struggling to find a house in Denver. So when we weren't really able to find a house, like with some land here, we thought, well, why don't we just settle in? And there's a, so the land that we're on is about 40 acres. That's my parents' area. And then there's little woods.
03:18And then on the other side of that woods, there's another like 36, 40 some acres. And that was also in the family. And we bought that land. So technically, we're landowners now. Nice. That's awesome. And you're young. I assume you're in your late 20s, early 30s, or even that old. Yeah, exactly. Okay. All right, cool. And what I want to say about where we, in quotations, live.
03:47because we live on the same road. This highway that we live on, this area is so pretty. And it's also so flat. The further you go out highway eight, the flatter the land gets. Yeah, the further west. Yeah. Funny that you say it's so flat because actually what separates our land from her parents' land is this really deep ravine that has a little creek running through it that leads into the Minnesota River. So we actually have some
04:17topography differences between the lands. So that adds a little bit of something unique, which is kind of fun. Yeah. We feel pretty lucky that of the acreage that we own, I think it's 12 acres is wooded. And that woods is really pretty. And the whole Minnesota River Valley really is a gorgeous area.
04:40Yes, Minnesota is a really beautiful state. And part of the reason that it's so beautiful is that it does have so many changes in topography. I grew up in Maine and I've been living here for over 30 in Minnesota for more than 30 years now. And I went kicking and screaming from my home state to here. And after 20 years, I was like, oh my God, I actually love it here. It's really pretty and it's not that different.
05:09You know, the land isn't that different. The things that grow here aren't that different. The only big difference is no mountains, no ocean. Well, I can travel, it's fine. And so I came to really love it here. And I really love spring. I'm not a huge fan of high summer. High summer is way too hot for me. Really love fall and winter's okay. Like it's the break that we need as people who grow things to regroup and plan for the following growing season. So.
05:37So Minnesota's not a bad place to land. Right, yeah, and we came from Colorado. So I mean, the competition, you're competing with the Rocky Mountains, right? But there's something about Minnesota. And the part of Colorado that we were, we were living in Denver, it felt like there was not as much of the seasonal change. And I think we are just seasonal people. We love the shift from spring to summer, from summer to.
06:06fall and then fall into that quiet winter time where we get some time off and we love the snow and all of that. So I think Minnesota, we're Minnesota people too. I'm Northern Tier State people. If it hadn't been Minnesota or Maine, it would have been Wisconsin or Pennsylvania as it were. Pennsylvania is not really a Northern Tier State, but Pennsylvania, New York, that area. Anything in the top states would have been fine with me. Yeah.
06:36So, okay, so I was looking at your Facebook page and your Instagram page, and I saw the photos of the tulips and the peonies, and I was just like, oh my God, they're so pretty, and it's a wrong time of year to be wanting them. Yes, yeah, so we did do, our first year was really full of trying everything. So of course we tried the tulips. We were lucky enough that there were, I think like 50 year old.
07:04peonies here that my great grandmother planted. So we had some well-established productive peonies to play with. But after trying a little bit of everything, we kind of thought this year we're gonna focus more on the summer flowers and we're not gonna do tulips because I would be doing tulips right now. If we had planned on doing tulips, I would have already planted them, but.
07:31I think we just want to put more of our time and our money into the summer flowers because that's what really sells well. Perhaps we'll explore tulips when we actually have a high tunnel and kind of force them to come up a little bit earlier. We found that they kind of came up later than we wanted to and at the end of the day they don't necessarily bring in as much money as you necessarily want them to. Well, because they're a one time.
08:01You know you pay if you're not buying huge amounts you're paying almost a dollar a bulb and then wholesale You can't really get much for him So it it's not a it's not a great option for us with the size we are and then yeah like Clayton said without a high tunnel They're they're blooming pretty fast and they they blow out like they start to crack and then it's like you know Less than a day before they're all the way past picking
08:30Um, scrambling a little on the sustainability side, which is kind of the road that I'm starting to go down and learn more about, uh, tulips in general, just don't seem like a very sustainable product to me because you have to, you purchase them. They're probably coming from Holland or somewhere overseas and then they have to cross the ocean and get to you. And so, you know, you're looking at the emissions that come off from trying to get these bulbs in the ground. It just doesn't seem.
08:59Doesn't seem very friendly to the earth to me. So if we can move towards the things that grow native here, that we can focus on, you know, keeping in this closed loop circle in Minnesota, then that's definitely more of the direction we'd like to push. So, yeah, awesome. I love it. Um, and if you're like us, you probably have critters that are under the ground that eat the bulbs too, because we planted 150 tulip bulbs the second year we were here, we've been here for.
09:28And there are not 150 bulbs in that ground anymore. Not even close. I think we must've got lucky because we did not lose a lot of stuffed predators. I think what partly helped was that we planted our tulips like in our backyard in a pretty big garden area and our dogs definitely patrol the area. So I'm sure that our livestock herd dogs that we have.
09:58that aren't actually livestock or dogs, but they might have helped. Yes. And the peony thing, anyone who's listened to the podcast that I've been doing for over a year now knows that I am in love with peonies. I think peonies are the most beautiful flower ever created by God or the universe or nature, whoever made them. I love them. And we put in a whole bunch over the last few years because when we got here,
10:26There were no flowers except hostas and hostas are not my favorite thing. So, so last year, last spring we had tons of peonies bloom and I was talking to my husband about it and I was like, can we put in more? And he said, well, yes, if you find them for free. Oh, sure. Well, okay. Facebook marketplace is an incredible thing. People are getting rid of stuff all the time and separating their peonies or like.
10:56My dad, he's landscapes and often they rip out peonies and they move them to new spots and sometimes they have extras. So we'll bring them home for us. Yup. It's much less expensive to do it that way because peonies are very expensive if you buy them at a nursery. For anyone who doesn't know, they used to be about 25 bucks a pot, but I haven't bought any.
11:22in over a year, they might be closer to 50 to 60 a pot with inflation now. I don't know. Yeah. And if you're buying them just the root, which is how you would buy them if you were planning on starting them, the root itself is like $15 wholesale. So yeah. And then you have to wait three years before it actually produces anything of size. You're supposed to prune them back their first couple years so they can focus on growing their root.
11:51Which I never do. I never do it. If there's a flower, it's going to grow, it's going to bloom, and I'm going to cut it. And if it takes another year past that three years to really produce, I don't care. That's how much I love the blooms. And it's really funny because people think that all peonies smell the same. They don't. No, we only have, I think we've got Sarah Bernhardt
12:20I mean, that is an incredibly fragrant. It's an older variety. They're amazing, but I have seen some wildly different, and I assume they smell different too, peony bags. They do. Sarah Bernhardt is my absolute favorite, and it's because it smells so pretty, but it's not like in your face overwhelming. And the purpley ones, the magenta colored peonies.
12:48I can't stand how they smell. I think they're beautiful. But I don't like how they smell. Yeah. And my second favorite is the festive of Maximus. I don't know if I'm saying that right, but they're white. They're pure white with a little bit of yellow down in the middle, little stripes of yellow. Such a good bridal peony. Uh huh. Love those too. We also bought some yellow. Ito? I-T-O-H? Yeah. Yeah. I've seen that one.
13:18I think it was Bartzella, but I'm not positive because it was like three or four different yellow ones that all pretty much look the same. And those actually bloomed last spring and they were gorgeous and they don't really smell like anything. They're not a really heavily scented peony. So I'm a fanatic. My grandma on my mom's side loved peonies. I didn't know that until I started talking about peonies with my mom and she was like, you're your grandmother's granddaughter.
13:48And I said, well, yeah. And she said, no, no, no. She said, your grandma adored peonies. She grew them in her garden. I was like, why did I never see them? And she said, because we were never in where they lived at the time of year the peonies bloomed. Yeah, yeah, they're short, short season. Yeah, we would usually go end of June in the first part of July from Maine to Illinois. And so by then the peonies were done and I didn't know what peonies.
14:16worse, I didn't know to look for the leaves at the time. So I get it honestly, that and my love of shoes. I don't love shoes as much as I used to because I can't wear high heels anymore because it makes my feet hurt. But apparently my grandmother really loved pretty high heels as well and so did I. So it's a thing. So anyway, you said you have dogs. What kind of dogs do you have? Yeah, they're both rescues. They're both mutts.
14:45So they have a few different breeds and then they're they're big dogs Okay, God people All right. Well, I'm a small dog person I don't know if you've listened to the podcast but I have Maggie the the mini Australian Shepherd which We don't think she's actually a mini we think she's a small standard, but it doesn't really matter We love her and she is kind of a she's supposed to be a farm dog if we had she or goat She would probably hurt them, but we don't sure we don't have any animals right now. We have two cats and a dog
15:14our chickens got culled a month and a half ago because they were getting old and it was time for them to go and we'll get chickens in the spring again. But right now we're down to two cats and a dog on 3.1 acres. How sad is that? Yeah. Yeah. So I, a lot of people I've talked to have chickens. Chickens are like the gateway animal into homesteading, right? They sure are. Most people have chickens. We have chickens.
15:43We have just some laying hens for ourselves. And we call them the anniversary chickens because on the weekend of our second wedding anniversary and our first month of living back here in Minnesota, we got a gift of money that was intended to be spent on a romantic night out. And we spent it on pullets. So we got, we have three ISA Browns.
16:10four Bef Orphanedons and a couple of Wyandots and a Bard Rock. And they were just about to start laying. Some of them were already laying and they were less than a year old. And we still have a few of those in our flock, but we have many additions. So it's quite the barnyard mix. We've had a lot of trouble with predators over the last couple of years. Um, our biggest one being our own dogs.
16:38We do have a chicken killer. So, so much for the livestock guard animal. Yeah. Cause he does more damage than good, unfortunately. So that's been a pretty big challenge for us. And it, our chicken coop has kind of just turned into Fort Knox trying to keep him or the raccoons out. We had a raccoon that was really wreaking havoc for a while there until I was out. One day.
17:06saw some beady eyes looking down at me from the tree. So took care of that problem, which was good. What you gotta do. Yep. We don't have raccoons because we don't really have any cover for them. We have a small tree line. We've never seen a raccoon here. Really? No. Well, let's go for your future chickens. Yeah. We have possums and we have skunks. We've seen, we had a skunk.
17:36that was actually in the pole barn the day we moved in that was dead. That was fun. The pole barn smelled really nice that day. Yeah. And then this, this spring we had a skunk in the pole barn. My husband went out to get his van to go to work and he smelled skunk and he was like, uh-oh. And he walked toward the back of the pole barn and he has his cell phone with him and had the flashlight thing on.
18:05And he saw two eyes and he was like, hello. And it moved and he could see it was a skunk. He didn't start startle it. So it didn't spray. And he came in before he went to work and he was like, um, we're going to have to make sure that if there's cat food left in the cat bowls out there to dump it before the end of the day, I was like, why? He said, cause we have a skunk visiting again. He's like.
18:30So we got the cat food out of there. You know, as soon as the cats would finish eating in the morning, we take the cat food out and Skunk went on his way. Never had to shoot him. He just moseyed on and I just free his way. That was it. That's good. Yeah. I hate having to kill animals when they're just trying to survive, but if they are a pest, it's a problem. Yeah. So do you guys have any, I don't know, pigs or goats or sheep or anything?
19:00No, we do not. Well, okay. Yes. Yeah, I forget about Kevin. Okay. So yes, we do have, um, he's not really our goat. We help take care of her mom's goat and horse. That's literally, I can see them from my back window right now. Yeah. So I grew up with horses, um, here in this house and, um, my parents still have, they had
19:29a couple of horses. We had an older horse that we had to put down. And then the other horse was lonely, of course. So my mom took on a goat, which was, it was my cousin's 4H Project goat. He's just a little Alpine goat. And he's been here for a few years now.
19:58He broke his leg, actually. He shoved it. We think he shoved it in the fence gate, um, which has like vertical bars, shoved it in there and twisted it somehow and broke it, uh, because when we found him out in the pasture, he was limping really badly, but our vet, the Minnesota Valley vet is incredible. And she was like, I think I can probably, you know, cast this and he'll be okay. And so he walks with a limp now, but he is.
20:28Still out there. And he's got a little bit of a bow in that leg. So he looks a little hobbly and pieced together, but he's still kicking. He's still a happy goat. So. Yeah, so we do have a goat on the farm. I wouldn't call him our goat and he's definitely not a productive goat. He's an inside goat. He would rather sit in the barn and be happy, just mowing on whatever haze right in front of his face and actually go be useful in the field. So.
20:57He has a little jacket in the winter. He's got short hair and gets cold. Yep. I'm glad you brought up Minnesota Valley vet, because we take our dog and cats to them. They are fantastic people. They really are. Yeah. We took Maggie there for her first puppy checkup when she was, goodness, 12 weeks old. And she's four. And.
21:24four years and a few months old now. And she's gone to see them for every checkup since. And she loves going to the vet because they have the squishy treats, squishy dog bone things. We don't buy those specifically because she knows she gets those at the friendly place where they give her her shots. Yeah, they really are incredible. They, for a small town vet, they're so friendly and they, you know, they're
21:54They're busy, but they always make time for us. It feels like, and we've been taking our dogs there too. They've been taking care of the horses and everything. They're great. Yeah. They're a small animal and big animal. And that's great because trying to find a vet that does both is nigh on to impossible sometimes.
22:18but I love them, the techs that they have, not the actual vet doctors, but the techs that they have are fantastic. Maggie loses her mind when she sees the techs. She wiggles, she's got the wiggle butt, obviously she's a wiggle butt dog, and she loves them. But the vet walks in and she knows, she knows that that is the actual doctor of veterinarian medicine.
22:46And she growls in the back of her throat. She's, she has nose. And so this last time when we took her in for her checkup and to get her rabies shot, I asked if, uh, if maybe the vet could, if the tech could just take, take Maggie back in the back to the vet, get everything done and then come back. And that way she wouldn't feel like she had to protect me. And that's exactly what they did. And when they brought her back in, she, the vet and the tech walked in.
23:15And Maggie came over and sat down and was smiling and wagging her tail like everything was great. I said, okay, we figured out the trick here. This is good. But no, they're, they're fantastic. I love them. And anyone in the area, our area who has animals need to be checked out by a vet. Minnesota Valley vet is the place to go. They are really, really good at what they do. Yeah.
23:39And I don't, I don't, they don't sponsor me or anything. I haven't even asked, but I just want people to know it's a great place to take your critters. So just an honest plug for really. Yep. Absolutely. Okay. So you, I know that you sell your flowers to the co-op in St. Peter, but what else, how else do you sell your flowers? Yeah. So we, yes, we sell at the St. Peter food co-op.
24:07and the local farmers market, primarily Lee's Sewer and St. Peter. We have been also selling wholesale to florists. And I did do a wedding last year, and I have room for one more wedding next year doing floral design with our locally grown flowers. We have been thinking about a CSA program. Yep. But we're
24:36We haven't really jumped into that yet. We're also probably going to be starting a little farm stand on County Road 8, which would have some bouquets, maybe eggs when we have extra. Any leftover produce that we grow from our garden that we're not canning or eating ourselves. Yeah. And then in the near future, not sure when, we are planning on moving the flowers out to the land that we.
25:06bought and starting a you pick. Oh fun. So that's the plan for the flowers. Very nice. The video that you took of the was it was it zinnias that had gotten frosted? Oh yeah. That is so cool. I had never even thought about the fact that taking video of the flowers when they're done would be would be that interesting, but it's really pretty.
25:33They're beautiful. Yeah, I think the designs that happen with the frosts are really pretty. So, some videos of that. It's a little sad, you know, cause you know it's the end, but it's also really beautiful. Yeah, when I saw it, I did a double take cause I was scrolling through when I was like, what is that? I stopped and clicked on it. I was like, oh my God, Zinnia's frosted. That's gorgeous. Yeah. And I had taken photos years ago.
26:03of roses with snow on them here in Minnesota in Jordan. We lived in Jordan at the time and it had snowed and we still had a couple roses blooming. And I was like, okay, so we just went from summer to winter overnight. This is great. Yeah, yeah. And really pretty, really pretty photos. I bet, yeah. So, okay, what else can I ask you? We have like four minutes left.
26:29What would you like to share if I haven't asked the questions that you needed me to ask? Yeah. Well, yeah. So we obviously are growing flowers and flowers are, they were kind of the start of our farm. But we're also doing, we're going to be trying to do some other stuff this year. Maybe chickens. Yeah. We recently went to a regenerative egg conference, Acres USA.
26:57They hosted it in Madison, Wisconsin. It was about a week ago. And so from that conference, it kind of inspired us to look a little bit further beyond just flowers. Just doing flowers is great and we're really excited about it, but it doesn't necessarily leave room to give back to the soil, doesn't necessarily leave room to just grow in different directions. And so we're kind of looking.
27:26at our farm and growing it more into a regenerative full circle integrating animals into what we're doing, doing a little bit more perhaps down the road of like a market garden, possibly turning that into a you pick. So we have a lot of ideas as far as where we want to grow our farm. I know that we want to get.
27:53more than just chickens on our land. But the struggle with that is just infrastructure. We don't necessarily have all the money in the world to throw at fences and all that good stuff. So for now, we're just gonna take it slow and steady and pay off some debt so we can set ourselves up to succeed, because I mean, farming is a hard one to make money in, it's a hard one to be profitable in. And so as much as you can focus on, you know,
28:23monthly expenses down so then you don't have to worry about money as much is kind of where we're at. So there's a lot of exciting things to come. It's just taking the time to let it happen.
28:38Good. And you guys have so many doors that are open to you right now. You're young. You have land. You have ideas. You got to go to a conference that I would have gone to when I was your age. Did you meet Mr. Joel Salatin? We met him all. He signed our book. We gave him a You Can Farm book and he signed it. Yes, you can. So that further lit the fire under our butts.
29:05get this going. We got to meet Will Harris as well and see Gabe Brown and all the big names were there. So, fun. Yeah, it was really cool to get to hear those leaders in the regenerative ag world speak and share their wisdom and we absorbed as much as we could. Awesome. I'm so excited that you got to go. That sounds like so much fun. And honestly,
29:34The regenerative movement that's been going on makes so much sense if you actually look at it and read about it and learn about it, because why wouldn't you want to have nature do what nature does? Yes. Right. Yeah, and that's exactly what it's about. It's, you know, so many farmers right now are working against nature, and regenerative ag is really just about letting nature do the work, you know, and working with it.
30:04you know, to succeed. Yeah, and it makes it easier on you. And that means that you'll have the energy to keep doing it. Exactly, yep, exactly. Because this lifestyle takes a lot of time, a lot of patience and a lot of energy and it's good work, but it's still work. Yeah, and the big focus of the conversation that we took away from the conference was to make regenerative farms profitable
30:33you know, being regenerative, putting less into the land and letting nature do its work, that allows for you to save a little money in certain places. And also consumers are beginning to crave food and products that connect them with nature again. And words like organic and pasture-raised and sustainable, they're words that most consumers are aware of and there's definitely a hungry market out there and we just have to figure out how to tap into it.
31:03Yep, exactly. Well guys, it was amazing talking with you. And since you only live down the road by about a mile, we should set up a time for you to stop by this spring. Because my husband is like big into the gardening and being outside. And we put up a hard sided greenhouse last spring. And we're going to actually have like a high tunnel style greenhouse also. And we're going to be growing bedding plants in the greenhouse this spring because
31:32to do that. Yeah. And then once they're big enough and it's warm enough, they're going in the high tunnel so people can just come and buy bedding plants for their gardens. So you should, we should set up a time for you to come chat with him because I'm sure he would be thrilled to talk to you about the greenhouse and the high tunnel. Yeah, we absolutely need to do that. All right, awesome. Thank you so much for your time today. Yeah, thank you. Have a great day. You too. Bye.
 

Finny's Farm

Today I'm talking with Peer at Finny's Farm. You can follow on Facebook as well.
If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee 
https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes
00:00This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Peer at Finney's Farm. Good afternoon, Peer. How are you? I'm doing well, thank you. How are you? I'm good. I'm so curious to hear the story on what you're doing because you have a lot going on there. So tell me about yourself and what you do.
00:29Well, I yeah, I do have a lot going on. We started this project. Couple years ago I was I've always been into horticulture and and just plant biology and stuff and actually went to school for it. But about three years ago, two or three years ago, I was diagnosed with some
00:59issues which were health related to other, you know, environmental things. So I spent a lot of time really researching just growing food, consumption of food, the things that are in the air, the soil that were contaminating, and my, to go back a ways, my
01:27education was in sustainable food and farming, although I went off on a different career for 30 years. So about two years ago when I was diagnosed and had to change diets and change everything I did, and I kind of backed away and semi-retired, but I can't sit still. So we decided to, I'm on two and a half acres here, and we decided to
01:56kind of start doing it ourselves, homesteading to a degree, mostly food. And kind of ended up here where I said, again, I'm a busy body, so it was like, let's try this. Let's try a co-op. Let's try garden-ready plants. Let's try a CSA. So that's kind of what brought me to where I am right now.
02:27really trying to kickstart it and get things out there so I can help other people just localized, you know, so. Yeah, and you're in Mankato, Minnesota, right? Correct. Okay, so do you go to the farmers market in Mankato? I go to the farmers market, as a vendor, you mean? Yeah. We will be this year, so yeah, I haven't in the past, but the person I partner with,
02:57has had experience at the farmers market and doing that kind of stuff. So I'm kind of working with somebody else on that portion. So.
03:11Very nice. I hear great things about that farmers market. So I wish it is. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. A lot of good ones around here. You know, we're Mankato. I'm not sure where you're from and what, but Mankato is very, um, agricultural. So it kind of, it kind of brings two sides to what I'm doing because I'm surrounded by monoculture and
03:37you know, no matter what you try and do when they're spraying pesticides, it gets in the air. And, you know, so it's there. I'm just surrounded by things. So it's kind of tricky. And we, you know, are trying to find different ways to make sure that everything that comes out of our garden is healthy and pest free and chemical free and all that. So.
04:02I understand. I'm in Le Sueur, Minnesota, so I'm about half an hour northeast of you. Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, my husband actually works in Mankato. Okay. Yeah, and we are surrounded by corn fields and soybean fields, so I feel your pain on the pesticides spraying. Right. Because we grow a fairly hefty garden as well. And we try really hard to use organic practices,
04:31you have drift, you can't be organic. So exactly. And that's one of the things that I'm not going to brand label myself as, you know, because it just, it's too difficult in this area where you and I are just because of the drift and everything. But, um, but you can do what you can do. And that's what I'm trying to bring some people. Yep. Exactly. Um, so I was looking at your website, which is beautiful, by the way.
05:00And I saw the online co-op and marketplace tab and it says, it says vendor information, and then it says project Green Haven, and then it says community garden benefits. Is project Green Haven yours or is that just an example that you put on there? Well, it is, it is something, it was basically my kind of final paper thesis.
05:30when I was at the University of Massachusetts. And I kept it all these years. So I'm in my 50s, went to school a long time ago, but went back in like 2015 to kind of continue my education with, like I said, sustainable food and farming. That was one of my things. So I put it up there. And I don't know where I'm gonna go with it, Mary.
05:59But I just, I spent so much time on just researching it and finding ways that people can live healthier lives and embrace the environment and be stewards of the land. And so, so to answer your question, I don't really know where I would go with it. I wish somebody would.
06:27know, a developer would say, hey, that's a good idea. Let's take it to place. But I just kind of put it up there to see what kind of response I get. Yeah. And I didn't go to college, so I didn't have to write a thesis about anything. Thank goodness, because it seems like an awful lot of time and energy that I probably wouldn't have wanted to put in. But I know that when people write theses, or thesai, or whatever the plural is, they really don't ever necessarily do anything
06:56body of work. It just is a thing that you do to get your degree. And so I think it's great that you put it up because you're allowing people to learn from what you learn. Right. I appreciate that. And again, it was, you know, a lot of time spent just researching. This was really probably, I want to say 10, 12 years before we, I mean, people were conscious of what was going on.
07:25with the food that we were taking in and stuff, but the way to live it was not really there 10 or 12 years ago. I mean, you did have some people, but it's becoming more and more just relevant around us. So yeah, I was kind of proud of that paper just because it was a long time ago and I thought I was ahead of the curve and kind of looking at that. So again, put it up there just to kind of see what kind of feedback I'd get.
07:54And maybe someday when the time is right, I can go out and present it to somebody. So, but that's, that's kind of what project Green Haven's all about. Okay. It's actually using the wind and basically permaculture, you know, the sun, all that kind of stuff and regenerative agriculture to, you know, live together with.
08:23you know, what we have on Earth here, you know. So, yep. Well, maybe you can turn your thesis into a book. Maybe that's a good idea. I might, I might have to look into that. You've already done half the work. You might as well go further and turn into a book and then you can actually make some money from it. Um, okay. So you guys also offer a CSA and is that just in the summer or do you offer things for the winter too? Um, we are.
08:53So I've lived in Mankato for two years and when I was living north of the suburbs I had a small one. You know I only had about 15 people. So this is going to be new down here to us. I already have some clients but I'm hoping to get like 25. So this would be new.
09:22going into next winter, I'm not sure what we would offer. And, but potentially it would be an off season type CSA as well. But again, trying to just bring people foods and gifts and, you know, healthy things, including, you know, soaps, honey, all that kind of thing. So it, it's just starting, Mary. So
09:49At this point, I don't have an answer for you. We're not doing it this winter, but that might change next year. Okay. Cool. I am really excited that you're offering a CSA because we did it for two years in a row and we did not offer it this past summer because people were hesitant to lay out the money at the beginning of the season, not having a guarantee that there would be anything to show for it.
10:19And we're really glad that we decided not to offer a CSA this summer because our gardens did not do well because of all the rain this spring. So we are right in the middle of trying to decide whether we want to offer one next year or not because we're real concerned that the weather patterns are going to be the same next spring and summer as they were this past. Very well could be. And that does, you know, I mean.
10:48with the customer at risk and the farmer as well. But yeah, it's one of those kind of risk reward things. And I get what you're saying as far as people kind of hesitant because, oh, 400 bucks, what if there's a drought? What if there's too much rain? And I'm getting two tomatoes and an apple.
11:15an apple, my basket each week, you know, so I'm hoping we have a better, better spring summer because this will be our first attempt at it. And like I said, I did it up north and it was real fun because you meet a lot of people that, you know, just are on the same page as you and really kind of understanding the last questions and stuff. So, so it's
11:45through and out of semi retirement to do something that's passionate to me. I love talking to people about it. I love, you know, I don't know everything, but what I can explain to a customer about, you know, why you should do a CSA or why you might want to, um, change your garden patterns or habits and your food and stuff. So, so it'll be, it'll be interesting and hopefully we'll have success. We're not looking for a time. We're just looking for.
12:14like 25 people to get started. So. Yeah, and it's really nice to be able to teach people about what you're doing. But the thing that we found in the two years that we did it is a lot of the people that were our subscribers to the CSA had small gardens of their own and they were growing things we weren't growing. And so they taught us some stuff about what they were growing too, which was really fun. Yeah. That's neat. And that's a kind of what
12:45you know, the organic kind of networking can do, you know, it's really in that that's what when I decided to really kind of localize this. That's what that's exactly what I wanted, Mary was what you just described was, was people helping people educating and hey, I have a home garden and I'm growing Brussels sprouts and they're, you know, they're not
13:14they're not popping, they're, there's, you know, so have you ever, you know, it's, it's exchanging ideas. And I think that's really cool and, and important. Yeah. We're not just growing gardens. We're growing friendships and relationships and growth is good. It doesn't matter what it is other than if it's like cancer. Cancer is terrible. We don't want cancer to grow, but, but good healthy growth is good for everybody. Right. Yep. Absolutely. Okay.
13:43So, you said that you are in your 50s. So is this your retirement plan? Is this what you're going to do until you die? Do you love it that much? Yeah, I actually do. So, like I said, I grew up in the city's area south of the city's went up there. My parents were very, even though they were both in the medical field, they were both my mom was a
14:10outstanding horticulturist. My dad had a huge garden and that was their hobby. And, you know, as a kid, I, you know, would grow a tomato plant or grow whatever, you know, out on the porch when I was very small. But so it was kind of in my blood. And yeah, when I chose to go to school, it really kind of stuck out. But then I kind of went into I went into a sporting career.
14:40after that kind of stumbled into it and yeah it was something there's just always been a passion so to answer your question yeah I would like I would like it to be successful I do not you know need it to explode and cause chaos and all it all it's about is money but yes something to kind of take me through retirement so I'm just in my mid-50s but
15:09um yeah decided to retire semi-retire when i was diagnosed with some stuff and um and so yeah this would be a long-term thing for me i absolutely love it you know i'm already ordering seeds i'm already looking i spend so much time online just reading articles and stuff so it's definitely in my blood and something that i very very much enjoy it's your life and that's amazing
15:36My husband said to me last night, we're talking about the fact that we're going to be growing bedding plants for our community, you know, for them to buy, because we built a hard-sided greenhouse this past spring. And I said, so when do we need to have seeds planted so that people can buy them in time to put them in their gardens? And he said, the answer to that is we need to start looking at seeds now. And I said, but we don't really have any extra money, right?
16:06now. And he said, no, he said, but you have a podcast, he said, and you have connections to people online, and you can let them know what they're what we're doing. And they can put in their orders for what they want. And they can pay for they can help out with the seed costs. And I was like, like a CSA for plants, not produce. And he said, kinda.
16:31He said, I don't know if that's what it's called. He said, but do you think that would work? And I said, I don't know, but I will ask a couple of people and see if they're interested. So that's the next thing on the list for tomorrow morning is to get hold of a couple of my friends and be like, would you be interested in buying bedding plants for your garden? And would you be willing to kick in a couple of bucks towards seeds? And if they say yes, then I'm off to the races. There you go. Yeah. And it's, I used to buy organic seeds from
17:00uh high mowers is it high mowers high mowing and they actually have what do they call it a seed well it's a csa for seeds and they kind of do it as well um on on their website so so the idea that you and your husband have is great and and you know it again just kind of brings back that portion of everybody's investing
17:28you know, even though you're doing the growing, they're a part of what's going on. Get to that, you know, and I'm doing, uh, garden ready plants as far as you call them bedding, but yeah. You know, I've already got a contract through a few churches for fundraisers and stuff. So looking at what you're, you asked your husband, it's like, okay, if they want them April, when do I gotta do it? How am I going to pay for what am I? You know, so.
17:57So it's a lot more difficult and a lot more. Um, what I would say is just. You have to sit down. It's not just a matter of planting a seed. You have to plan this out. You have to find the right stuff. You have to find tolerant stuff. You know, you're just looking at, um, for me, I look at it when I'm buying seeds is, you know, what diseases they might get, what, um, you know, they're crossed with what.
18:26um pests all that kind of stuff so it is a full-time job you know trying to to make sure that you got the best product and when people get involved with you i think that's really neat yeah and my favorite part of spring is seedlings i love going to the nurseries and walking in there's all the herb the herb seedlings and you run your hands over them they smell so good so so what we're gonna do is we're gonna grow the uh the
18:55the seedlings in the hard sided greenhouse. And then we have like a high tunnel style greenhouse as well. And so we're gonna put tables in the high tunnel once the seedlings are started, like they're green and coming up, we're gonna put tables in the high tunnel and people can actually just go in and look and see what they want to buy. So they'll get that experience of running their hands over the plants and being able to smell them and stuff too. So yeah, this spring should be really fun and it's not necessarily
19:24weather dependent because we have the greenhouse. So we can grow, we can grow and not have to worry about the stuff getting flooded out or not getting enough water because we have a little bit of control because of the greenhouse. Right. And that's kind of where I'm in the situation where I had a, I got a little spot of a greenhouse, almost a new home, you know, so, you know, I have to go down there to do it.
19:53Yeah, to be able to grow it and get it going. And it's nice to have that kind of, you know, outfit there is having the greenhouse so you can put them in there. So that's what I'm challenged with coming this spring, but I'll figure it out. Or this winter, I should say, is trying to figure out where I'm gonna put 4,000 seedlings, but you know, we'll figure it out.
20:21Yeah, I don't know that we're going to do 4,000, but we'll probably do a thousand at least. So, but I'm just excited to be able to baby the plant babies this year instead of just throwing them to the wolves of the weather. Yeah, I understand. Yep. Perfect. Yeah. It's so fun talking to people like you because you're so into it that I feel like I can kind of geek out a little bit about plants because...
20:46Sometimes people are like, yeah, we grow a garden, but we also raise cows and goats and rabbits and chickens. And they're excited about that part. And we don't do livestock here. So I'm like, oh, well, tell me about your goats and your rabbits and your chickens. And they talk and I listen and I'm like, that's awesome. And I don't have anything to say necessarily about goats or cows, but plants. I could talk all day. I love, love, love plants.
21:14I agree. Yeah, as far as livestock, I'm not interested in having them, you know, but I have teamed up with a couple of people for a few things. And maybe that's something that's out there for you is so I have a a pork producer that I buy, you know, a couple of pigs from them.
21:44and they're actually at the Schmitz right now. But you know, that option, I have a couple of neighbors that have so many chickens that they can't deal with how many eggs they have. So I buy them to sell off and stuff. So yeah, it's kind of partnering up with the things that we necessarily, you should say, not want to do but can't do. You know, I can't have cattle running around my two acres. Right.
22:13You know, it's tough. So but it's you know, there's opportunities and but like you I at plants are my thing and that's what I'm gonna stick with because it's a it's it's kind of like I got two daughters and it's kind of like watching your your babies grow, you know, you have to nurture them, you have to take care of them, you have to be there for them, you have to talk to them, you have to teach them the right things so that they're healthy.
22:44Absolutely. So you were saying teaming up with people and I know that you have the online co-op thing or at least your websites as you do. So how does that work? So if you're familiar, I'm guessing you're familiar with cottage foods. Yes. So what I'm looking for, this was just a random thing that my partner and I had talked about was just like how can we help
23:14other little vendors like us, you know, kind of expose their product and get it out there. And so when we redid this website, this website was from years ago that was kind of parked when I was up north. We kicked it back up and yeah, the idea was, well, maybe we can get somebody who has a year one.
23:44um cottage food license or I guess they're not called license but membership registration registration there you go yeah um you know and and kind of help them um kind of promote their products so and and as far as helping them are we have many different
24:15I shouldn't say organic, but very low chemical fertilizers, worm castings and all that. So we were going to sell that and then it was like, why stop there? So, so the idea is trying to find somebody who maybe makes bread, you know, that can promote it on our Facebook and that. So it's not a moneymaker for us. It's just, again, a way to.
24:45kind of go grassroots with this and really educate people and offer products that are healthier than run into a high V or a pub foods, something that really is meaningful for somebody to make and then somebody to eat. Well, that's kind of the idea behind that. We're just kind of starting. That's not my side of it, but that's my partner's side
25:15kind of starting to reach out and try and get some vendors, just to, again, try and help promote their product. And it will go back to them, the sale and everything, but just kind of an environment full of good products and safe products and healthy products.
25:39So sort of like a food broker, you know how there are insurance brokers who help you find the best insurance company for you to use? Same idea. Yeah. Yep. Awesome. Yeah. And our thought is, too, is not to exclude anybody, but we don't want to flood it. So you know, we were thinking, well, maybe if we find two or three breadmakers, the first one that...
26:08talk to us, get in there because I don't want to have, you know, 15 bread makers out there that, you know, people again are going, well, which one do I want? Which one do I want? So, so it's trying to narrow it down so that you have two or three of the same products that they can choose from and not have to go far. But yes, it is like a broker just kind of trying to point Mary in the right direction if she wants some maple syrup.
26:36Or some good sourdough bread. Yep. Things like that. Um, I was going to say when it comes to breads, you may be surprised because there are so many different kinds of breads. You've got gluten-free breads. Ancient grains breads. You've got just white breads. You've got like, my husband makes a fabulous honey oat bread and he makes an herb white bread and
27:04He's tried making rye. Rye bread's kind of a pain in the butt to make. He hasn't tried it again since. But there's all these different kinds that people are very passionate about, kind of like I'm passionate about the herbs and you're passionate about the bedding plants and stuff. So you may be surprised if you find like five or six people who bake bread and they're all different. Yeah, that's true. Yep, that's a very good point. And I've never tried to make bread, so.
27:34I don't know, but I know what you're saying. And yeah, that's that's a good point. And put that in my, my notes because yeah, there's there's many different types of breads. Yeah, and I'm not gonna lie, there's a lot of people making sourdough bread right now because of the thing during COVID, which I think is very funny. Because number one, I don't love sourdough bread.
27:59And number two, I don't want to have to feed a sourdough starter every day. So I don't do sourdough bread, but so many people are so into it. It's just crazy. Right. Yeah. Yup. So, so, um, there are also so many people making cakes and cookies and brownies and, and sweet, that you'll probably end up with like 30 people selling all different kinds of baked goods. Right. Yeah. And, and.
28:29I'm trying to streamline it a little bit again is not to exclude one person over the other, but yeah, just not to confuse anybody that goes to our website and says, well, there's 30 different breads, I'll just go to, you know, a grocery store where I can see it, feel it, look at it, you know, all that kind of stuff. So, so it's something, it's in a work in
28:58make sure that we're getting what we want out to the people. And that doesn't mean that we're excluding anybody that doesn't have good products. By any means, it's just kind of better for us to kind of just not have to. Because on our side of it, Mary, is we have to, our web developer has to get the pictures up
29:28the description and post all that and then link it back. So yeah, if he has 25 people doing the same sourdough bread, it's kind of an hot mess and kind of just too much for not making really any money off. Oh yes, absolutely. Yes, for sure. And you don't want people going to the website and being overwhelmed and being like, oh, never mind, I can trust this loaf of bread from Hy-Vee that I get every week. Right.
29:58Yep. Yep. Understood. I get it. All right. Um, here we've been talking for almost half an hour and I try to keep these to half an hour. So thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it. Yes, I appreciate it too. And you're in Le Sueur there, you said? Yep. Okay, well, we'll have to stay in touch. I would love to hear more about what you have going on. And, uh, you know, love to share with you how things are going.
30:28in the future and if you don't mind I can put a little link if you have one that you can send me. I'd love to put a link to your podcast on our website and Facebook page. Absolutely and I will send you the link when this one is live. Sounds good. All right. Thank you so much, Peer. Have a great afternoon. You too. Bye.
 
 

PTY Granola Company

Today I'm talking with Brit at PTY Granola Company. You can follow on Facebook as well.
If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee 
https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes
00:00This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Brit at P&TY Granola Company. Good morning, Brit. How are you? Good morning. I'm so good. How are you? I'm great. You are where in Minnesota? Our kitchen is in Plymouth, and I live in Dayton, Minnesota.
00:30Okay. I wasn't sure which was which, so I thought I should ask at the beginning. Yes. Okay. So I went and looked at your website this morning because I'm a dumb ass and hadn't had a chance to go look at it and found out what P&TY stands for. And I just giggled. So can you tell me about yourself and your company? Cause I can't wait for you to share your story. Absolutely. So I'm Brit Williams. I started P&TY Granola Co. five years ago. And it all started
01:00I was making granola bars for my husband because he was eating a granola bar and I looked at it and I was like, Trevor, there's no nutrition in this granola bar. He's like, yeah, but it tastes good. I was like, well, let me see if I can do something better. And so I started making these bars and I would take them at the time I was an event planner and I would take them on the road with me for my staff. And one of the events that I did was for Whole Foods Local.
01:29And Whole Foods staff there was like, you got something different with this recipe. It's not like what's on the shelf. I think you should do something with it. And that was April of 2019. And by June of 2019, I sold my first granola bar and it was all by Insta story. And I just was having people test it out and everything. And as I was doing that, I was thinking about the fact that there's like 50 million granola bars out there. And.
01:58How do I stand out? Something has to catch them before they get to the taste. So if it tastes so good and they want to keep going after it, how do I get them to do that? And at the time, I had my son who's seven years old now, he was two or three, and I was teaching him manners. And he would yell at me like a toddler does and he would yell, no. And then I was teaching him about no, thank you.
02:27And so then he goes, no, thank you. And I was like, Oh, so there's something to this manners, right? Like there's something like it hits differently when you consider someone, even if it's coming from a toddler. And so that's what got me to think about what does, what does my company stand for? What do I want people to think about when they have a granola bar? And that's where P and T Y comes from. Please. And thank you. So granola bars that say please and thank you.
02:57So it's this message, this fueled by respect. Every time you have a bite of our granola bars or you go and grab them, I want you to just be reminded about the power of manners. I wanna think outside of myself. I wanna think about other people and how I can make them feel and how I can make myself feel by treating myself with respect as well. So that's where PNTY came from and it...
03:27My hope, my dream is that our granola bar tastes so good that every day you have a little bite and you're just reminded about the power of manners and how that can make an impact in the world. I love it so much and I'm gonna tell you why. I always say please and I always say thank you to the point that when my dog does something I ask her to do. I say thank you Maggie. Yes.
03:54And excuse me is a big one in my house. You know, we don't say, we don't say get out of the way unless there's a reason we say, excuse me, to the point that I say, excuse me to the dog as well. And everyone who listens to the podcast knows that I love Maggie beyond life itself. So of course I'm going to talk to her like she's my kid. And I have been talking to my kids like little adults since they were born.
04:19And thank you and please and excuse me and all those wonderful things that let them know I care about them have been part of my vocabulary with my kids forever. So I'm just so impressed with the fact that you put that much thought into naming your business. Well, it makes a big impact, right? I'm sure your dog appreciates being acknowledged and respected, right? And so does our kids and whoever they interact with and whoever you interact with.
04:49consideration factor and I think humans just need a little bit of a reminder of that like we're all doing our best right just have some consideration and and treat each other well. Yes patience goes a long way and that's part of consideration so yes I love it I love what you're doing. You asked me when I messaged you if the fact that you're not a cottage food producer mattered and I said nope.
05:14But the thing is you were a cottage food producer, so you do fall under the headings of my podcast topics. And you're one of those people that gives the current cottage food producers hope. Because it's not easy to go from being a person who cooks yummy things in your kitchen and sells them to friends and family and people at the farmers market to having a full-blown business. Right. That is a journey.
05:44So how hard was the journey? Was it pretty good for you or did you hit roadblocks along the way? I would say that I just tried to take one step at a time and I think the cottage food license is an amazing license that gives you, especially if you wanna grow, an amazing opportunity to try things with a lower overhead.
06:12You don't have to follow certain rules. You obviously have to follow the license rules, but there's some leeway and there's some opportunity to take in feedback and adjust quickly to the feedback that you're getting from your customers. So I started as cottage food. And
06:33I made everything out of my kitchen. You know, I have two kids and I was making granola bars in the morning before they got up and then I would drop them off at the neighbor's house in like a bag or a box or something. And they would pay me in Vemo and then I got into farmers markets and you could talk to people and learn what the rules were that were coming up next in a way that was less risky.
07:03to kind of start that way, get your bearings, get a foundation, get the feedback, be able to adjust along the way and then say, yeah, I know I got a product that if I license it, I could actually grow this and I know what I'm going to take on in the next round of growth. And so after, so I had the cottage food license for a year and a half probably.
07:32went to enough markets, got enough feedback, and I was like, I think I can do this in a commercial kitchen, get licensed for that. And then I moved into different packaging and then I got the nutritional stuff. So I took it one step at a time. There's roadblocks along the way, but roadblocks that I dealt with at that period in time are much different than this period in time.
08:02I, yes, it was hard, but it was the right type of growth and the right speed in which to grow. And that's why I love that cottage food license. It just gave me the opportunity to take a little bit of risk, but to learn along the way. Yeah. And I'm going to say this, like for the record, because I talked to one of the ladies that is part of the cottage food place.
08:31from Minnesota and she was very clear that it's not a license, it's a registration. There you go. So, so I try to, I always try to say cottage food registration, not licensing because she was like, it's not technically a license. And I'm like, yeah, no, I get it. Yeah, that's very fair. That's very fair. Yep. And the other thing is, um, I was going to go somewhere here. Oh, with the cottage food registration stuff.
09:00It gives you a chance to really stretch and play with what you're making too. And I, I have mine. I have my registration. My husband has his because he makes a really fantastic yeast breads. And he keeps saying that he's going to sell them to the farmers market, but he seems to run out of time to make these threads in the summer because, you know, he was growing stuff in the garden and selling things. Yes. But, uh, I made granola.
09:28You know, not granola bars, but granola, the first year that he was at the farmers market. I didn't do it this past year because I was too busy doing a podcast this year, but people really liked it, but I had made it with raisins and almond slivers. Someone said to my husband, they were like, could your wife just make it plain, like without the raisins and without the almond slivers? And he was like, I'll check with her when I get home.
09:57And so I started making the plain granola and the plain granola actually sold better than the granola with stuff in it. So it's really nice, you're right, to be able to get the feedback and the questions and the things that people like and dislike so you can pivot or you can change. Yeah, and you can get enough of that feedback in an honest way because you're the one talking to them face to face. And if you get enough feedback going one way or the other, then you know, for sure.
10:25make the change and stuff. So that's really cool. I've gotten similar feedback too. So I have, I have granola as well. And I sold it in two different ways, one with stuff and one without stuff. And the, the one without the extras has one out and that's what, that's what we make now. So it's pretty interesting because people always want to add their own stuff.
10:48Yeah, and I mean the reason I put granola slivers, not granola slivers, almond slivers and raisins in the original batch is because that's how I like it. And I was like, well, if I like it, other people will like it. And then I was like, oh, well, maybe I'm just weird, huh? Okay. You're not weird. I think everybody likes stuff in theirs. So it was really neat and I was astounded.
11:11at what people would pay for granola. And then I realized how much you're paying for granola at the store with a whole bunch of stuff in it that doesn't need to be in it. And I was like, I'm okay with what we're charging for my granola. Mm-hmm. So, so what do you, what do you sell as granola bars? What do you, what is the stuff that you put in your granola bars? So all of our granola bars are gluten-free and dairy-free.
11:38We use a locally sourced honey, so we are actually licensed by Minnesota Grown as well. It's oats and cinnamon and vanilla, and then we make our own nut butters that we use in them too. Four of our granola bars, four out of our five granola bars have nut butters in them. There's a peanut butter, a hazelnut spread, and an almond butter. The fifth one is actually nut free, so dairy free.
12:07gluten-free nut free and it's called the you're welcome because it has all of the Allergens taking care of so it's kind of like that. You're welcome Care of the you're the allergens So we make our own nut butters and then each of them have a different type of flavor So the golden rule is chocolate white chocolate coconut the part in me is chocolate dry cranberry Sharing is caring is dry cranberry coconut almond the thank-you bar
12:36is our peanut free bar and that one has an almond vanilla flavor and then that last one I just talked about the you're welcome is dates and pumpkin seeds. Nice, and you're making me think of the Care Bears. You remember the Care Bears? Yes, I do. And they're all in the different colors too. Yeah. Nice. I love that. Okay. So when I was looking at your Instagram page.
13:03I looked at the packaging for the granola bars. It looks very professional. So I'm assuming you're not printing that yourself. No, I actually worked with a local Minnesota marketing firm or designer back probably three years ago. And I found this company called Replace and they support small business and they were willing to grow with me. And they've been my design company ever since.
13:33I met with them and we came up with the colors and the branding, the granola buddies that we have. And then so they design everything. And then I work with a printer that prints all of the wrappers for us. Okay, cool. Isn't it great when companies want to work with you? It just makes it so much easier.
13:57It means the world and especially as a small business, if there's companies that are willing to start small with you, like if there's less minimums or they're coming in with a lower hourly rate and they're willing to stick with you and they can see that you're going to grow and you know you're loyal back to them because they have good business, then they're willing to grow with you and that means the world is a small business when
14:27cash flow is not as big when you're smaller and you're just trying to get to that next step. So it has always meant the world to me and Minnesota has a ton of those people that care a lot about Minnesota food, the industry, CPG industry. It's just a great community to be a part of.
14:56very, very touristy state. I mean, half the people that live in the state of Maine cater to the tourist market from Memorial Day to Labor Day because people go to Maine for the trees and the ocean and the experience. And I moved to Minnesota about 30-something years ago, and Minnesota is so Minnesota-centric. Like the great state of Minnesota.
15:26I hear it all the time. And I heard the great state of Maine when I was growing up, but it wasn't like the news catch phrase. And at first it really threw me. And having lived here for this long, it really is a great state. It is a really great place to live. And when you meet people who want to give you a leg up or a hand up, they mean it.
15:53They absolutely mean it and they stand behind it. And so for the people that have helped you along the way, I think that there's a big thank you there. And so the please and thank you part of your name, I think that thank you goes a lot further than just the name of the company. Absolutely. My whole dream is can I be the people that helped me grow and get to the next level? How else can I share my knowledge
16:23And talking with people that are willing to say like, hey, I believe in what you have going on. I have this resource. Let's tap into it and see where you can take it. And I actually just had someone, you know, I had a conversation with another entrepreneur on Monday night at, you know, 10 p.m. because I ran into an issue and he's like, I got somebody, I'm going to give them a call. Let's figure out what we can do next. He's like, this is where he even said it.
16:53I couldn't always do this before, but now I'm in the position where I can help somebody else and I go, I'm going to be you in a few years so I can help somebody else too. So it's just this really cool community of us trying to help each other answer these wild questions that we all have. Yes. And when I meet people who I really admire, I have this thing that I say, I always say, I want to be you when I grow up and I don't want to be them.
17:21But I want to be like them. And I still say it and I'm 55. So I'm never growing up. I'm going to be a kid for the rest of my life in my head. And I think that's what you're talking about. You want to be, you want to be able to be like them when you grow up. Absolutely. And it's just, you know, giving back and bringing it forward. And, um, I think Minnesota, like you said, has a, an amazing community of people that do that and actually mean it on the backside.
17:51Yeah, and I don't want to imply that people in Maine don't mean it, but I just want to know. It sounds like I got to go to Maine. It sounds beautiful. It is very, very pretty. It is also very expensive to live there, which is why we didn't move there when we decided to move four years ago. We talked about it and I looked into it and I was like, well, we could afford land and a house, no problem, but can we afford to eat after we do that? So we decided to stay where we were.
18:19And I love where we live, so it's all good. But yes, anyone who has not visited New England needs to go. And you need to go like the end of September, 1st of October, because the bugs are not as bad and the trees are starting to change and the temperatures aren't as miserable. Cause it's hot in Maine in the summertime. It's really muggy, kind of like Minnesota. Yeah. We'll note it. So go visit.
18:47Go, it's really fun. And the food, oh my God, try everything. What's your favorite? Lobster, because I can't get it here worth a damn. Yeah, lobster in Minnesota is probably not the best, huh? I don't, I had someone bring me a lobster roll as a surprise gift from a decent restaurant at one point. And I will fully admit that I was in
19:14incredibly not gracious about it. I said, I said, thank you. And I bit into it and it wasn't quite the lobster roll that I expected when I thought of lobster roll. And I chewed up the bite and put the thing down and said, I really appreciate this, but I can't eat this. Oh, that's funny. You gave me your best shot.
19:39The friend that brought it said, why? And I said, because this is not really a lobster roll. This is some not great lobster in a not great bun. And they put stuff in it that shouldn't be there. And they were like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'm like, it is not your fault. You didn't know. Now you gotta bring that friend to Maine so they can experience what a true one is. Yes, and I mean, I am terribly spoiled. The last lobster roll I had had before that unfortunate experience.
20:09was literally on the coast at the lobster shack, I think in South Portland, Maine, outside at a picnic table with a gingham tablecloth on it. I had picked out the lobster in the tank that I wanted the whole experience and it was lovely. No way. You get to pick the lobster that you're going to eat? Oh yes. All right. Oh yes. I can picture this. I like it.
20:38They pull the live lobster out of the tank. They take it back. They put it in the hot water. They cook it. They break it up. They do the thing. And the funniest part about that whole story is my second son, well, my first son of my body. Long story, I have a daughter. I have a stepson. I have two sons after the stepson. Second- You got a full family. Yeah, first son of my body was like four or five at the time. And he saw the lobsters in the tank and he thought that was super cool.
21:08And I said, so you're going to try eating lobster? And he said, I'm not eating those big red bugs. I was like, well, fine. You don't have to eat the big red bugs. I will eat your share. So it was very, big red bugs. Yes. But anyway, go to Maine, eat all the foods. It's amazing. Um, okay. So we're at 21 minutes. What else can I ask you? Oh, you said you make, you make like breakfast granola too.
21:37Yes. Yep. Okay. And is it the same flavorings as the granola bars or is it different? It's slightly different. So this one is a cinnamon almond flavor. We make a hazelnut spread and we melt that down and use that as our coating. And then it's got extra cinnamon flavor and some almonds and some pumpkin seeds. It's a really, really good...
22:02granola for like yogurt in the morning. Lots of people love to put it on their vanilla ice cream at night too. And it comes in like clusters almost. So you can just, you know, put your hand in the bag, grab a little chunk and eat it like a potato chip. But it's better because it's yummy granola. And it's called Yes Please. So it's like granola trail mix. Yeah, there you go. Nice. Very nice. I was going to ask you back before we got onto the whole main thing.
22:32The packaging that you use, you're very aware of your customers and the gluten-free and the nut-free and the dairy-free. What's the packaging made of? It is a post-consumer recycled material. So it is made from recycled material on the front end and then you can specialty recycle it on the back end if you want. But
23:00Being on the trend of CPG, single use packaging, and doing that in a way that doesn't take away from the earth was really important to me because we're all running around, right? We're all trying to grab that convenience snack and it has a wrapper because it's supposed to keep the food safe and share all the information, but then it just gets thrown away, right? So I hope that we can stay on this trend of.
23:30Not only is the packaging made from recycled material, but then eventually the technology will catch up with us in which it can then be recycled on the back end while keeping the food safe and keep the shelf life safe. Because that's the other thing we have to think about is if the packaging doesn't support the food and the safety or the shelf life of it, then we're creating food waste. And so it was a, it was a
23:59learning experience to go from my bars are always in compostable packaging, but my bars only lasted for six weeks in compostable packaging. And that's not going to work in the long run. So then I got into opaque packaging that I'm in now that's made from partially recycled material, but then keeps my food safe up to nine months. And so now I'm extending the shelf life without changing what's
24:29And so what's really important to me is can my packaging be just as good for the earth as we would hope any packaging is and we don't add to the earth, we help it. So that's a long-winded answer to my packaging is made from post-consumer recycled material.
24:53That is a perfect answer and I expected absolutely nothing less. I figured with everything else you were considering, that was probably the answer I was going to get and I'm so glad it was. Yes. And now that we're looking into new machinery, I need to get into new packaging and so I'm having my packaging company do a lot of research around. How do we stay on that trend?
25:20make sure that the packaging is small enough to make it through the machine, but it's still made from post-consumer recycled material, but it keeps the food safe. And what's interesting about now going into a flow wrapper is we have less material for the packaging. So it's actually
25:44less waste that we're going to be using and I think we can continue with the post-consumer recycled material with this new packaging. So that'll come out next year when I get new machinery. But it's something that I think about and I think it's really important to stay on that trend and help the technology evolve. Absolutely. You are the person that is going to change the world. You already are doing it.
26:14I'm so pleased that there are people in the world like you who are really considering all of these aspects of having a business because the world is not the healthiest place right now, the planet. And I want people like you to be being ingenious and brilliant and putting your stuff in the world so that everybody else sees that it can be done. I appreciate that. And thanks to people like you that
26:41like to talk about it and spread the word and ask all the questions because there's lots of us out there that are thinking about it and we just need people to be interested in it and like care about that too because when you go into those types of packaging ideas or the ingredient ideas and you lean into high quality, there comes a cost with it, right?
27:10about how it's being produced and the care that goes into it, they're more okay with paying a little bit more, right? So if my bar is on the shelf and it's 50 cents more than somebody else, if you look into that and you ask the questions, well, it's a small business. They don't have the economies of scale or they're paying attention to packaging or they're paying attention to nut butters.
27:40more okay with the cost difference, right? And so it's people like you that are asking the questions and helping people understand, and that's really cool. I'm trying real hard to ask the really important questions. And when people say things to me that I'm not quite sure of, I definitely ask them to clarify and I'm like, I'm going to push you a little because we need deeper, bigger answers than what I was just given.
28:08And I feel bad about it sometimes, but I'm like, yeah, this is what I do. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. Absolutely. And then you can, you can dig into, is that actually a real answer? Is it not a real answer? Yeah. And I haven't had anyone yet be offended. So I'm just going to keep trying to ride that wave of not offending, but making sure that the answers are what I need out of it. Yes, absolutely.
28:37because I don't want to offend people. I want people to feel safe talking to me. Well, you're really fun to talk to. I'm having a lot of fun. Good, and I don't want to hurt people's feelings either because that just hurts me too. I don't, I never feel good coming away from a conversation where I'm like, I think I might've hurt their feelings. I feel bad about that. Because not only did I hurt them, I hurt me in the process. So I try really hard not to do that.
29:06To end this interview on a really fun note, I have a story about my foray into making granola bars. It's not very long. I tried making granola bars years ago and I used honey and vegetable oil and biggest mistake was chocolate chips because I did not realize that if you put chocolate chips in an oven to bake granola bars, the chocolate's going to burn.
29:36So I ended up throwing away an entire pan of granola bars, which never made it to the bar stage because they smelled so terrible. We had to open all the windows and open the doors. So is there a secret to making granola bars? I mean, I want you to give away your trade secrets, but how do you do it so that you can have the little chocolate chips or whatever in them? So the ones that have chocolate chips in them are actually no bake. So four of my bars are no bake bars.
30:06Um, we make them and then press them down, cool them down, and then we cut them and package them and they, they don't need to be baked and, um, they meet all the requirements of, of shelf life. The only one that is baked, um, is the, you're welcome. And that's what the dates and what we do with that one is we reduce the water activity in it so that the shelf life is longer. But that's the only reason we baked that one. So, um,
30:35Four of the bars are non-baked, and then the granola is baked for that cluster, that crunch, and then the Your Welcome is baked so that we reduce the water activity in it. Okay, well the recipe I used must have been faulty because it said, I did everything it said to do, and I will never ever do that again because my house smelled like burnt chocolate for two weeks. There you go. And the baked ones sometimes are a little bit more crunchy, right? Our bars are a lot more chewy.
31:05They're softer to the touch. And so they just have a much different texture than what's out there. Yours are the kind that I really like. I don't like the hard ones. I don't want them to break teeth. I don't want to break teeth. I really don't. So all right, awesome. Brit, this was so much fun. Back at you. And thank you so much for your time today. This was amazing. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right, have a great day. You too. Bye.
 

The Food Movement

Today I'm talking with Rob at The Food Movement. You can follow on Facebook as well.
If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee 
https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes
00:00This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Rob at The Food Movement. Good morning, Rob. How are you? Good morning. I'm well. How are you? I'm fantastic. Are you in Illinois? I am. I am talking to you right now from Arlington Heights, Illinois. Okay, yeah.
00:29My mom grew up in Illinois, so I have a little geographic knowledge about the state. I'm in Minnesota. It is a beautiful sunny day here. I don't know what it's like where you are. Oh, yeah. No, the sun is shining. It's actually relatively warm. It's in the 40s today. Yes. For anyone who listens to my podcast, I usually ask about where you are in the weather because I feel like asking about the weather is asking...
00:55How are you? Like it is how I say I care about you. So for anyone who's never heard the podcast before, that's why I do it. Well, likewise, what part of Minnesota are you in? I am about 40 minutes southwest of Minneapolis. Okay, cool. Yeah, so. I know the twin cities very well. Yeah, corn and soybean country is where I live, so. Yeah, I've driven through it.
01:19Yeah, it's really, really pretty. It's much prettier in May and June than it is right now. But we have to have the winter too. The winter is the tax we pay to enjoy the spring, summer, and fall in Minnesota. Yeah, I like having all four seasons, but I don't know, this year here in Illinois, I think we skipped right past fall and sort of an interesting year weather-wise.
01:45It sure was. And I'm really hoping we get a reset in January and we can have some normal, moderate weather for 2025. I was just talking to a friend yesterday about this and she was like, our gardens didn't do anything. And I was like, no, neither did ours because the weather was crazy. So anyway, that leads me to tell me about yourself and what you do, because what you do has a lot to do with food. Yeah. So for the past
02:15Oh, 24-ish years. I've had a company called Whole Earth Marketing and we sell nutritional supplements, primarily to independent health food stores. And I love this business so much that in about 2009, I became a partner in an independent health food store in Gurnee, Illinois called Earthly Goods. Sorry, I'm giving you the long version, but- No, that's fine. Tell me.
02:45And so a business partner and I acquired a store called Earthly Goods. It's no longer there, but had a good 20 plus year run in Gurnee, Illinois. And about two years into it, we realized that it was a lot more work than we thought running a store. We had some complications, staff left and things like that. And we conveniently got an offer to sell the store. And we did that.
03:15Around that time, I had been working on a line of private label superfoods for our health food store. And I really wanted to do something in depth. I didn't want to just accept something turnkey from a manufacturer. So I started sourcing superfoods from around the world. And my naivete led me in some really interesting directions.
03:44For example, importing superfoods from other countries or any kind of foods is a really complicated and potentially risky business. You really don't necessarily have to, which is what I found out later. There are ways to navigate that. In that process of putting together a line of superfoods for the health food store I was part owner of and then selling that store.
04:14The food movement was born. I said, I've done all this work. I've come so far. This could really be a business venture in and of itself.
04:25And that became the food movement. Okay. So do you have a background in the science of this, or did you just learn it as you went? So I think my background coming into the industry would best be described as herbalism, which is somewhat of a science, but also a traditional school of healing.
04:53So, you know, my interest has always been in sort of the overlap of science and tradition, whether it be herbs or food, you know. So no, my background is not primarily scientific, but I do find the science quite interesting and relevant. And, you know, one of my favorite books when I was starting out in the industry working in a health food store, I was the book buyer. And there was a book.
05:22called the scientific validation of herbal medicine. And I really thought that was cool, because I thought, you know, here we have traditions of thousands of years sometimes that cultures have found the validity of these foods and herbs, and they've seen the results, you know, in their culture and their trial and error. You know, traditionally using herbs, there was no scientific validation.
05:51going back thousands of years. They really didn't exist, you know, when culture started using herbs as medicine. But in the modern era, it's exciting and, um, you know, interesting to see the validation of these traditional, you know, because it's really as simple as finding out that a plant can be medicine. And if you discover that garlic, for example, can kill just about any kind of
06:19And this is today validated by hundreds, if not thousands, of scientific studies. But where did we learn that? We learned that from traditional cultures. The wise women and men who lived it, didn't study it, but lived it, yes. Absolutely, yeah. And that's, and so the name the food movement for the company that I started coming out
06:49the Earthly Goods days was meant to put a pin in that intersection of herbs as food and food as medicine. And so I think, you know, we have a model in allopathic Western medicine, which is to have a symptom, I want to relieve it, I'm going to take a substance. So I've got a headache, I'm going to take ibuprofen. Problem solution.
07:20But there's a bigger picture when you look at what do you consume, you know, 99% of the time when you don't have a symptom presenting. And how do you treat your body holistically and on a day-to-day basis? And I think that mindset is becoming more and more popular. And people are seeking that out. And more so than looking for a magic bullet. Which
07:49really hard to find a magic bullet. I've never really found a true magic bullet that would be you know an antidote for the 99% of what we do. But thinking holistically, looking at what we do every day, what we consume every day as part of the medicine I think is really, it's really a growing, it's been there for just since time began probably. Sure and
08:17I'm not going to lie to you. I'm going to push you a little on what you're doing because there are lots of supplement companies out there who are selling things that aren't necessarily good for you. So I guess my first question is where are you sourcing the ingredients for what you're selling? Yeah, so it really varies. We make a wide variety of supplements at the food movement.
08:46And the first thing I would say is that, you know, the name of our company, the food movement is meant to draw a distinction and an alignment with a tradition in this business that has been around for many years, the trade organizations. So, um, and the reason I make that distinction is because since my time, starting in the health food business where there were many
09:14legacy companies that had really good practices. In the modern era, we've seen hundreds, if not thousands, definitely thousands, I should say, Amazon supplement brands popping up. Never heard of them before. And suddenly they've got X, Y, and Z product Moringa. And, you know, I can tell you where we source.
09:38Armoringa and that Armoringa is, you know, just as one example, just picking on Yes. Moringa, the miracle tree as one herb. You know, we source Armoringa from Asia, from reputable suppliers that provide us with testing to show that the product is what it says it is and that it's not contaminated. And then we, as part of our good manufacturing practices, which is validated by FDA.
10:08we then do our own testing. So it's not enough to accept the testing of the supplier. Obvious reason being, they have a good motive to lie to you. So finding the right supplier that has vetting a supplier is an important part of the process in the supply chain, but then doing your own due diligence. So every product that the food movement makes is third party tested multiple times.
10:37And we test for, and these are industry standards, you know, every good company does this. We test for microbiological contamination, and then we test for heavy metal content.
10:52And then the third aspect of that is botanical identification. So just making sure the Moringa is Moringa. And there's essentially like a botanical fingerprint that validates that. That's the easiest part. But it's an important part because sometimes, you know, depending on who you're buying stuff from, you have no guarantee that it is what it says it is.
11:21Yes, and that's exactly what I was trying to get to. So thank you for telling me all that. And I'm not picking on you, Rob, at all. I just, this is my podcast. I'm the only one doing it. And I have to make sure that what I'm telling people and what I'm letting people tell my listeners is accurate. So I'm not trying to be a brat about this. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate a little bit, if you get what I'm saying.
11:51Well, yeah, and I could play, you know, devil's advocate in the other direction. You know, I think, I think it is important to hold supplement companies accountable. It's also important to hold drug companies accountable. Oh, yes. Yes. Important to hold food companies accountable, you know, and I will just, I hate to harp on this point about, you know, you're talking about supply chain. So how do we know the food movement products are good?
12:20And so I'm going to use some concrete ways that we're doing third party testing, whatever. But we also go a step further, which is that we recommend you buy our products in a local health food store close to you. There's some great stores in the Twin Cities. Mastells is a store in St. Paul that I highly recommend as a great source to buy not just our products, but products that are also reputable.
12:50They're very thorough in how they look at what they carry. I'm sure many other independent stores are as well. Because you can Google this, fraudulent supplements sold on Amazon. So you have brands that have been sold for many years. Two that come to mind are Host Defense Mushrooms and Now Foods right here in Illinois. And they found that there were sellers on Amazon
13:18that were making counterfeit versions of their products. They actually found this out on one of the host defense products, there was a typo. So someone, some criminal, I hate to say it that way, had made a counterfeit version of their product. You're hoping what was actually in the capsules was not harmful. Right. But at the very least, it wasn't what it said it was. And...
13:46That's because when you buy things online, you have less accountability. Both of those companies that I just mentioned, they only ship directly to customers, to retail customers, wholesale customers in this case. So if you go into Mastel's or any other health food store and you buy a host defense product, a now foods product, a food movement product, you know the chain of custody has been
14:16honored has been properly handled and that it is what it says it is because it came directly from the manufacturer who does their due diligence. So I think it comes back to dealing with reputable brands and when people go and I'm you know I might get in trouble for saying this because you know somebody's gonna there's somebody out there who has an Amazon only brand who's gonna say wait a minute you can buy good supplements on Amazon what are you talking about but
14:46And I'm not saying you should never buy anything on Amazon because since, you know, this fraud and counterfeiting of supplements came out, I understand that Amazon has put processes in place to try to validate in a greater way the products that they're carrying and you know, that's great. That's fantastic. But I think it's twofold. You know, one, when you walk into a health food store, by and large, they're
15:16brands that they have vetted, that our industry has vetted through third-party means. And so there is some accountability. You can feel good about what you're purchasing. And if you ask the store, how do you know this is a good brand? What made you decide to carry this brand of Moringa? They have an answer. Well, they do third-party testing. Their sourcing is consistent.
15:45You know, they have good relationships with reputable suppliers. Mm hmm. Okay. Awesome. So now my next thing, I, I am not at all downplaying what you have created because I think that supplements are very important and have their place. But I also feel like we should as a human species be getting most of what we need nutritionally from our diet.
16:15Now, you know as well as I do that our country does not promote people getting what they need nutritionally from their diet. Thank you McDonald's and Burger King and all those places. And the reason I even bring this up is because I live on a 3.1 acre property and we grow a garden every summer and we try to grow things that are good for us to eat that support our bodies. And so what is...
16:44Why do we need supplements, I guess is my question. Yeah, so there are a number of reasons. So as we kind of started off saying, we have really two kinds of products. We have whole foods as supplements, really just whole food, superfoods, really no different than something you would have grown and dried and.
17:12you know, in this case powderized, but they haven't been processed, they haven't been extracted. They are raw foods, essentially. And I take the case of maca. So I'm going to venture to guess that you don't grow maca on your farm. No, no, we do not. And that's probably good because there have actually been studies that found that the
17:41And it grows in that climate, in that region, in part because of the altitude. It's a high altitude. It's also a very rich volcanic soil. And it is native to that area and they've tried growing makarut in other places. There was a study published looking at cultivating makarut in Eastern Europe, because that could be a great cash crop, you know, over there. But
18:08They found that it did not have the same potency, didn't have the same properties and qualities that indigenous maka root does. So Peru realizing this and maka being a cash crop, they only allow the export of maka root as a finished product. In this case, ours is certified organic, traditionally sun dried, and it's in a powder. So,
18:37I say all that to say, you know, maka root is something you cannot grow yourself. Right. Very, you know, to my knowledge, it'd be very hard and it would not necessarily be as good as what you're getting from Peru. And maka offers as a whole food, some really unique benefits. So I think the answer is probably both. And that word, supplement, you know, so it's not replacement. We don't sell. Right.
19:05meal replacements or food replacements. We sell something to supplement your diet to give you benefits that you would not necessarily get from just the diet that you already eat. Okay. So you've brought up maca a couple of times. What are the benefits of it? So maca, yeah, I mean, maca is a great example just because, you know, it is something you
19:34to source from the region it's indigenous to, from Peru. So it's a great example. Same with moringa. I mean, you can grow moringa other places. So these are the foods we're offering as supplements, right? So maca itself is what we like to call an adaptogen. And adaptogens are plants that can non-specifically increase a state of resistance. So it means basically that they strengthen the systems of the body.
20:04So a lot of people feel more energy taking maca. It also has been shown in studies to help with reproductive health. So it has some hormonal balancing properties and that could be, you know, on one end of the spectrum, helping, you know, somebody's reproductive health. And then you can extend that.
20:32out to later stages of life. It's been shown to help with things like prostate health and dealing with symptoms of menopause.
20:44Okay, that's what I wanted to know because I know nothing about maca. I think I read about it maybe five years ago and went, eh, I don't need it. And then I didn't look at it again. So thank you for the information. Absolutely. Goodness sake. It's allergy season again in Minnesota. It's dry and gross here. Oh my gosh. Sorry. Yeah. Yes, I won't try to recommend any supplements.
21:12for your allergy symptoms on this podcast, because that is one thing we don't do. We're not, and that's an interesting distinction with supplements, right? You have the laws in the United States. You sell supplements to support the natural structure and function of body symptoms, but not to treat disease or illness. And that's an interesting sort of line there. It's a law called Deshae.
21:42And people don't always stick to those rules. But certainly there are lots of great formulas that can potentially help with allergy symptoms, for example. But that's kind of the crossover between food and what we would call medicine. And another thing about supplements, what you're saying.
22:13you're growing your own food. And the question is, why would I need supplements? You know, can't I get it all from food? And I think I the reason I brought that up is, is I want to hope that we can get what we need from our food. But I know we can't. So go ahead. Well, and you got to look at the the evolution of the human body. And it happened over thousands, if not millions of years, where we've adapted to our environment.
22:41The problem is that our environment has radically changed over the last 100 plus years to where we're not just dealing with, I mean think about, and you may not be living this way, but the average person has, I mean, I can only speculate, 100 times more stress than we did in our evolutionary history. I bet it's even higher than that, but yes, I get what you're saying. And we have, let's say...
23:10100-folds, 100-folds more exposure to pollution, kinds of pollution that we never dealt with. So I think the point being that in the modern world, our nutritional needs may be increased beyond the level that normal, even normal amounts of food might provide. Yep. Yeah. Because of this, you know, even...
23:38the sort of mainstream government bodies recommend adding B vitamins to enrich cereal products. So it's actually since 1998 a rule that if you're selling, you know, grain products that you're supposed to be adding B vitamins like folic acid and niacin, other B vitamins, very small amounts. You know, I think that's where our industry differs because if you want a therapeutic
24:08you probably are going to look towards a supplement outside of just enriched grains. And I'm not sure. I would rather eat less processed grains and take a more effective supplement. So I was, I was just going to say the same thing. Okay. We're on the same page here. Yeah. I mean, you got to look at if you, you feel like the, I feel like the body is a natural healer. If you give it the right nutrients that it can
24:37heal itself, really. And so that's where the original approach to supplementation that I encountered, if you go back maybe not even quite a hundred years, but the early 20th century, where folks were talking about using vitamins in conjunction with the whole foods diet, it was to identify deficiencies. And one of the biggest deficiencies, and I really
25:06zoom in on this for the food movement. One of our areas of focus are minerals and trace minerals in particular because that's an area of deficiency that we don't often talk about. People talk about vitamin deficiency. Oh, you know, look at your diet. You're really not getting enough B vitamins. You're dealing with a lot of stress. You need to think about
25:34water soluble, they don't build up in the body and they may help. A lot of people feel a real difference taking an effective B vitamin supplement, but the minerals above and apart from the vitamins. So magnesium is a major mineral. A lot of folks find that they're not getting enough of in their diet, especially if they're eating at those places you mentioned before.
26:02If you're on the Super Size Me diet, you're probably magnesium deficient. Most likely, yes. But there's this broad range of over 70 trace minerals that in our evolutionary history were part of our diet because they were part of our agriculture. When people were doing crop rotation, when people were doing composting and those kind of things, there was a natural balance of trace minerals, trace elements that were
26:32recycled, you know, that were part of the life cycle. Switch fast forward to a big agra, you know, modernized food systems. And there was a turning point. You could call it an evolutionary U-turn where big agra decided, you know what we really need to make big profitable crops in P and K, you know, we need these three elements because they're what make plants.
27:01grow strong or grow big, I should say. And N, P, and K are nitrogen.
27:12Oh my gosh, nitrogen, phosphorus.
27:22And potassium maybe? Yes, thank you. Okay, yep. Well, it's definitely Monday over here. Nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium, thank you. But yeah, the focus on those. I live in cornfields. I hear about nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium all the time. And if you look at our natural evolution, we weren't getting crops that were fed just nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium.
27:49they had a broad range of other minerals. You know, they had, and if you look at even just traditional farming outside of big agra, adding things like limestone as a natural source of calcium, that puts nutrients back in our food. You know, the trace mineral is a little more elusive because it's at a trace amount.
28:19So you're talking maybe parts per million, and what the modern system has said, your body doesn't need that. I know it was there for thousands, millions of years as we evolved, but we don't see a need for it. And I think the naturalist looks at how things have evolved and how they've been done prior to now, prior to modernization, and they go, wait a minute, if it was part of the system,
28:48part of the cycle, if it was part of how we evolved, the need for it may not be as pronounced as, for example, a calcium deficiency or magnesium deficiency, because you need more of those. We know that you need much larger amounts of calcium and magnesium than you do of, say, chromium.
29:16thousand milligrams or more of calcium a day. You need, based on what we know, micrograms of chromium.
29:27But there's no chromium in the crops that are being grown with NPK as fertilizer by big agro. And where else are you going to get chromium if not from a supplement? Early natural products looked at supplementing with nutritional yeast was a really popular kind of whole food supplement. And it's naturally rich in chromium.
29:55is a big factor in blood sugar metabolism. It helps to regulate insulin sensitivity in the body. It's a big correlation between potential blood sugar disruptions and chromium intake. And you don't need a lot. We're talking about maybe hundreds of micrograms, so less than a
30:26but there's still great evidence that you need these micro-minerals and rather than picking ones out to supplement, well let's just take some chromium and then let's take some manganese. What the food movement is focused on is a broad spectrum of these trace minerals as they occur in nature and we use a very ancient plant material called humates.
30:54And that's what we sell as black earth minerals. And that's made from lignite, which is basically, like you say, very, very old plant material that's broken down over long periods of time. And then it results in these organic acids and this broad array of trace minerals. Wow, that's a lot of information. So I'm gonna, I would love to have 10 more minutes of your time if you have it.
31:24Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So I want to break this down into layman's terms for my listeners, because I'm listening to you and I love words and I read a lot. So everything you're saying is actually sinking in. But what it comes down to is what you've done is you have taken these really good for people things, broken them down into things that can be ingested and used by the body
31:55So my big question is how does this stuff taste? Because I know kids who take medicine and will spit it out because it tastes gross. So how do the supplements taste? Yeah, that's a great question. And I'm realizing now I didn't say it at the start, but it's part of the Hippocratic oath. Do no harm? First, do no harm. Primare no ser noctum, right? That's our...
32:23primary responsibility and that's partly why it's called the food movement, you know, because there are some really interesting supplements that are not food and that are, you know, things that can be useful. But I think the safest path forward is to stick to things that are food. The exception to that is probably the black earth minerals which are made from food because it's very old plant matter broken down. It is...
32:52I'd sort of say it's ancient foods. Sure, yes. Like ancient grains, but ancient foods. Yeah, yeah. But the answer to how does it taste, I think the greatest thing, we have a lot of parents that use our black earth zeolite, which uses our black earth minerals with an extract of volcanic mineral called Kleinoptilolite. Sorry, I know I'm throwing out a lot of food.
33:20As you say, I'm throwing out a lot of terms here. And, you know, I think, but the bottom line, I think this is, I love words as well. And I try to be clear and not just to throw words around. And I think one of the great things about Black Earth Minerals is that we didn't come up with this, you know, one supplement that's been very popular lately, sort of because of social media and whatnot, is called Shilajit.
33:49And you may have heard of that one. I'm sure some of your listeners have heard of Shilajit. It's just really trending. It is an ancient Ayurvedic from India, Indian traditions, humate. So it's very much like our black earth minerals, but it comes from India and it's sourced up in the mountains. And you know, and I say that to say, a lot of these influencers are saying, you really want Shilajit that tastes bad.
34:19You know it's good stuff if it smells like a horse's feet and it tastes the same. That's how you know you got the good stuff. I'm sort of going like, well, this is an interesting world that we're living in now. When I got into this business, people complained that spirulina, it's an amazing superfood, but it tastes so terrible. The industry responded by making products that had spirulina and then a bunch of sugar
34:49flavorings like wild berry and banana. So you take something that's naturally not necessarily tasty, and then you try to make it fit the modern paradigm. We don't do that. If you look at our black earth minerals, we have a black earth fulvic, is just the most basic liquid extract. Most of the feedback we get from reviews and things like that is that it does not taste
35:19bad. It does not taste strongly. I think I would put our black earth minerals up against Shilajit as tasting a heck of a lot better, get a lot higher compliance with kids. And that's not to say there's anything wrong with Shilajit. I mean, Shilajit, I love, you know, what taste is a matter of conditioning. So they say you have to taste something I've heard like what 11, 12 times before you'll develop a taste for it.
35:50And in American processed foods, we develop a love for salty and for sweet, but maybe not as much for savory or bitter taste. And I think that the more I have changed my diet since I was young and eating more processed foods, I develop more of a taste for those.
36:16I mean, Shilajit, you know, we don't sell that. We sell a North American version in our black earth minerals, but it's got this smoky, bitter kind of flavor that I find myself sometimes kind of craving. There's a different company, not our company, but that has a Shilajit honey. And it is this complex taste. You know how sweet honey is? I mean, it's like.
36:44It's just pure sweetness, right? And nothing tastes like honey. It's very sweet, but yes, nothing tastes like honey. So I'm guessing you're going there with this. Well, you gotta look for the Shilajit honey because I mean, they call it campfire honey, not because you eat it around the campfire because it tastes like it fell in the campfire, but it's got a smoky, savory taste to it. And I just, I think,
37:14There's something to that about, you know, a lot of our products are made to not be tasted. To your original point, you know, that if you dilute our minerals in water, it will change the color. It gets very dark because of the fulvic acid and the humic acid, but it really just tastes like water. I mean, our ultimate trace minerals, 10X, is a black earth mineral that you dilute in water.
37:42put about 20 drops in a bottle of water or whatever you're drinking. And I don't taste it at all. And a lot of the reviews we've gotten say that they don't mind the taste, they don't notice the taste. It's a very...
38:00you know, not a strong unpleasant taste, if anything. So neutral. Yeah. I think that's a great way to put it. Kind of a neutral tasting way to take these minerals, whereas other kinds of trace minerals that we don't make, like the ones that are extracted from the Great Salt Lakes, it's a good way to get minerals, but they're very, very salty. And if you don't dilute those, man, you will just spit it out because it tastes like you swallowed some of the ocean.
38:29you know, which you don't swallow that, you know. Yeah, and if you can taste that much salt in something you're drinking, you probably shouldn't be drinking it. It's not good for your body. I think it's okay. You know, it really depends on how much salt you're taking in otherwise, you know? Right. I think trace minerals from the Great Salt Lake, just to be sort of objective about products we don't make, you know, that they're good sources of trace minerals. You do want to dilute them.
38:58but it's more about how much salt. Like if you're taking that supplement and you're eating at McDonald's where they're adding a lot of sodium, then you're gonna spike way high above what your sodium intake should be, but probably more so because of the processed foods. I mean, if you're eating whole foods and you're, let's say you're adding Himalayan sea salt, you know, or I'm sorry, Himalayan salt or sea salt to your food, I think you're safe to add a reasonable amount.
39:27You know, your body will kind of tell you. But if you go around eating cheese whiz, you know, that's been spiked with tons of sodium, yeah, studies show that your body will start craving more sodium than you really should be taken in. And since you said all that, I always anytime I have anybody on the podcast who is talking about supplements or.
39:56herbal, I don't know, salves or lotions or anything where you are taking something into your body or into your skin that you don't normally do, make sure that you talk to your doctor before you start anything new. And that's only because sometimes things do interact with maybe medications you're already taking or maybe you have diabetes and something that you are going to take is going to mess with that. So
40:24Anytime you're going to start a new thing that affects your biology, talk to your doctor. That's all I want to say about that. Yeah, no, I think that's a very safe recommendation to have. And you know, I think that's a really good thing about that is it may make people think about
40:46the medical care that they have. Because if you go to your doctor and you ask them about Shiela Jeans, what are they gonna say? Or if, you know, and if what they say is, well I- They're probably gonna say, what is that? They're gonna say, well, I don't know. And if I were in that position, that doctor, and I didn't know, I would say, maybe you shouldn't take that because I don't know what it is.
41:14So this is gonna sound really harsh, but I don't mean it this way. A question you may wanna ask yourself in addition to asking your doctor is how much do you wanna be limited by the knowledge range of your doctor? And is it time to shop around? Are there holistic doctors that may have the medical knowledge you're referring to, but also some of this natural information? So there are...
41:43integrative doctors, and you can have more than one healthcare practitioner, right? You can go see a general practitioner and then go see a rheumatologist. And if you want to get really radical, you can go see an herbalist. You can go see a wise woman as you, they're still out there. So, I mean, it's, I think it is a great suggestion of what you just said to ask your doctor. But I think in this modern
42:11realm we have to be ready for that answer of I have no idea what you're talking about, you know? Yes. And thank you for pointing all that out because I was going to say back 10 minutes ago that it's unfortunate that our doctors, our general practitioner doctors are not really up to date on herbs and minerals and vitamins because they're really not.
42:39Our doctors that we have, my son's doctor is fantastic. I love her, but if I brought up Shilohji, she would be like, what are you talking about? And she's really, really smart, but she wasn't taught this stuff. And so when we go to our general practitioner for a checkup, they're like, okay, so your heart rate is good, your blood pressure is good, your lungs sound good, your skin looks good, you can see, you can hear, you can talk, go home. Yeah.
43:07There's so much more to health than just those five things. And so I think that what you're saying is absolutely right, that you can have a general practitioner who gives you a checkup like your car would get at the mechanic. And then you can go to a nutritionist and say, I'm kind of feeling puny.
43:32If I eat these things, but I'm feeling great if I eat these things, I think there's a disconnect somewhere, help me. And you can go to an herbal person and be like, okay, my nutritionist said, and then we got talking and she said, I want to talk to you because you're going to know things I don't know. And then you go to a rheumatologist. I mean, there are so many people who know things that the other ones don't know. And it frustrates me to no end. I can't, I'm not allowed to talk about.
44:01why my son has a doctor who he adores. And it's nothing life threatening, but it is definitely a life inconveniencing. And I wish that his doctors would talk to each other more about how to fix the problem, because it's going to be a lifelong thing, and it gets in the way of him having a fulfilling life. And so I'm probably gonna end up stepping in here in the next six months and saying, okay, guys,
44:31The things you're doing aren't making this better. I mean, it's not as bad as it was, but it's not making it better. Who do I talk to who knows more than you? Because I need someone who knows more than you on this. And I think I've, you know, I could, I don't wanna go, you know, over your time here, but you know, the, I will say I've got a daughter who's at this point an adult. She's
45:00one of my kids is in college and thankfully we discovered something called functional medicine. And so she went to see an MD starting in her early teenage years because she had a wide range of issues. And he was functional medicine is a phrase that can possibly be helpful. You know, looking for a practitioner who practices functional medicine.
45:29I'm sure there are many different kinds of functional medicine, but it seems to include nutrition and focus on things like food allergies. In her case, my daughter's case, she found that cutting out gluten, cutting out dairy, cutting out corn, and originally some other things that she added back in like eggs. She eats eggs with no issue at this point. But it was...
45:58Number one, identifying those potential irritants or I don't know if you'd call them pathogens, but just foods that you're sensitive to or maybe even allergic to depending on the person. And that's something you don't get from a general practitioner in my experience. They don't, you know, they might send you to an allergist or a nutritionist, but functional medicine seems to be kind of straddling.
46:28couple of those realms and also dealing with supplements. And one of the things that's really interesting is now, and with that practitioner as well, they sell supplements. So you go in, you find out, okay, you're sensitive to gluten, you're sensitive to dairy, cut those out, you're gonna see a huge benefit. They may recommend some lifestyle things. And by the way, you need to take these three supplements and we have them behind the counter.
46:58Right. And that kind of enters into a whole new realm there where now the health food stores are complaining, wait a minute, you know, they could buy a lot of those things from us at a better price, but you know, the doctors have identified a revenue stream. So you get this, what it used to be, I think what I've found is that 20 years ago, those kind of doctors were sending people to the health food store. Yes.
47:27as a practitioner has really ramped up. And, you know, it's neither bad nor good, right? I mean, I think it's good in, but, you know, it goes back to your point about your kind of having to be the advocate for your child and to navigate in between these practitioners and these options. And that's where something like common sense goes. You know, I know Dr.
47:57Smith, it's not the name, but you know, let's say Dr. Smith is recommending this $50 supplement that includes CoQ10 and some other things. But I'm thinking that I could maybe find something and I'm going to get in trouble with any functional medicine. Wait a minute, he's telling them to go off their script. But we have to navigate these things for ourselves between what one practitioner says or sells.
48:27and what our common sense tells us and what our own research tells us. And I think it's gonna be a good process if people really trust themselves and they trust their ability to, you know, because I think a lot of times we get made to feel it's the way medical expertise works. You know, trust me, I'm a doctor. And you're supposed to sort of relinquish a certain amount of control.
48:55You know, my uncle was a PhD scientist at NASA at one point. And he said, you know, I look at my practitioner as a consultant. He's not telling me what to do. He's giving me advice that I'm paying for. And I thought to myself, oh my gosh, Jerry, your doctor must love seeing you walk in the door if that's your approach, you know.
49:19Yeah, doctors don't love me either because they're like, you need to do A, B, C, and D. And I'm like, well, what about E, F, and G? Because I know there's an E, F, and G coming down the pike. So, so yeah, I always tell my doctors when I meet them, I'm like, so I read a lot. My dad was a, he was in the medical field. So I learned a lot just by listening to him talk about his job. You're probably not going to like me much. And they usually just laugh. So. Yeah, you know, and their jobs aren't easy. And.
49:50They have limitations, things like liability, right? If that is one thing I've been told, and this may be changing, I'm sure it is, but I've been told point blank by practitioners, look, taking whole foods and vitamins may be very well and good, but it's outside the scope of my malpractice insurance. So if I start telling someone to take Shilajit, and they have a terrible reaction,
50:18I'm liable for whatever reactions they have and that's not a risk I'm willing to take. Yep. It's so the medical profession and the medical thing we have in our country is so frustrating and so difficult to navigate sometimes. But on the plus side, at least we have it because I would be
50:42I would be heartbroken if anything happened to my kid that I was talking about and his doctors are very good with him. So I'm thankful for them. And on that note, I'm going to let you go because we've been talking for almost an hour, Rob. I didn't mean to wind this so far out. Well, thank you. It's been a great conversation and I agree with you that, you know, doctors are very important.
51:09And I think food is very important. So it's an interesting conversation. You know, we've got to, we've all got to find, you know, what works for us and our families. And thanks to you for asking important questions. I always do because I have something called got to know itis. I want to know all the answers possible before I die. Rob, thank you so much for your time and you have a wonderful rest of your day. Thanks, Mary. I hope you have a great day too. All right. Bye.
 

Steadfast Roots Homestead

Today I'm talking with Krista and Dave at Steadfast Roots Homestead.
If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee 
https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes
00:00This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Krista and Dave as Steadfast Roots Homestead. Good evening, you guys. How are you? Good evening. We're good. How are you?
00:22I'm good. Other than technical difficulties over the last 48 hours, I'm ready to shoot my computer. Other than that, I'm great. Thank you for spending some time with me on Friday evening. I'm sure you probably had more fun things you could have been doing, but we're going to try to make it super fun. Tell me about yourselves and what you guys do. So this all started just a couple years ago. We started really
00:51getting into the homesteading lifestyle just a couple of years ago during COVID, essentially. We had been thinking about getting chickens for a while and that's what we started with other than we were already gardening and stuff. But we started with chickens and we moved on from there to getting a new property and more animals and that's where we are today. We're starting from scratch essentially.
01:22We're learning along the way. The gateway animal got you, those darn chickens. Right. Yes. We've always been really interested in natural living and more whole foods and stuff like that. We really wanted to be able to have our own. When you really look into the meat industry, it's scary. And you're like, that's kind of like, we're like, we can make our own chicken. Why not make our own chicken?
01:53And then it just ballooned from there. And now we're trying to do 10 million other things. We didn't get chickens for meat. We got chickens for eggs. And it was a good plan until our chickens decided to be lazy and stopped giving us eggs about three months ago. So we don't have chickens right now, but we will have chickens again in the springtime. Awesome. Yeah, we started with eggs and we've moved on to, we tried the, with the kids,
02:24corn scrosses for 4H. We didn't really like their breed just because they're kind of gross and we decided we'd go with more heritage breeds. Breeds that haven't been bred to be more meaty and bigger and produce meat in mass quantities is what our... where we want we want the more natural, the less
02:55the less engineered, yes. Yeah, yeah.
03:00Yeah, I don't blame you. This is our first year going and, um, uh, growing out our own chickens from eggs to harvest and we're working on it. And I think our results are turning out pretty well. Yeah. That was kind of like the goal. It was, it was egg chickens, but for meat too, like dual purpose. Yes. Yeah.
03:27Is it difficult for you to raise them from egg to eating? Is it difficult when you have to call them or are you okay with it? So the hardest times I've had with calling isn't really the ones that are for me. It's the mercy calls, you know, when you have a chick born with a defect and having to take care of that one and sometimes that's what gotten the most. But.
03:57Growing them out, knowing that they're going to be used for me and that they're going to be used for sustenance, it's never bothered me. It gives me a new appreciation for it. It doesn't bother me. It's like I know I'm a meat eater and I eat meat and it makes me feel, I don't want to say good, but it makes me feel better knowing that this animal that I'm eating has lived a full and good life.
04:27throughout its whole life and that its ending is going to be swift and fast and it's not going to suffer. And almost, I mean, I would say probably all the meat we buy in the store probably suffered. So when I look at it that way, and you know, and for me, it makes it a lot easier to do the ending because swift and fast and I know that, you know, that animal's life was for that purpose.
04:57Yeah, and I didn't ask that for you to feel like you had to defend your choice. It's just that there's so many people in the world who are like, I could never do that. And the thing is you never know what you can do until you do it. So I just, people don't quite understand if they haven't done this, that this is not murder. This is not a terrible thing that you're doing. This is actually a sustainable.
05:27normal practice that went on for years before we had farms that grew tons of animals and dispatched tons of animals. So totally. I hope I didn't come across that. That's been done on it too. That it's just, it's better this way. Yeah. I hope I didn't come across like I was asking you to defend yourself because I'm absolutely not. I am right on the same boat with you. No, I just felt like that that's part of my explanation of why it, you know, like it doesn't
05:56bother me because a lot of times people are shocked because we eat things that are cute like rabbits too. And that can be really touchy for people. They're like, how do you do that? How can you do that? But it's so much sustenance. And when we have a meal that's rabbit, we can feel the difference in the nutrition in our bodies almost. You get fuller faster. Yeah, and rabbit is really tasty. Yes, it is. It's very tasty.
06:26Yeah, if you cook it right, it's fantastic. I kind of love rabbit. Um, okay. So I've got a couple of questions for you that have nothing to do with, with chickens or rabbits. Um, you have an Airbnb that you, that you do. Is that right? It's a camp. Oh, it's like Airbnb, but it's a camp. It's like, we, we go through hip camp and, um, hip camp is like, um, it's basically like Airbnb, but just for camping stuff.
06:55So we just do tent campers, but we have we have 20 acres and we have a lot of interesting buildings and stuff on our property and it just felt like It would be a good way to make a little bit of money on the side to help fund the homestead As well as give a sense of community to the property as well Give back. Yeah, we like to share we want to share. It's really magical here
07:22Yeah, and you guys are in Ohio. So do you do you do that during the winter too? Or do you shut down that part for the winter? We've left it open in the winter last year was our first year. And we did have a couple campers that came in the winter. And they did a really good job of doing their thing. And they had a great time this year, though we had that we recently had this really bad snowstorm and we're under feet of snow. So we did shut down for a couple months just so that we can figure out where
07:52what's even going on because we haven't even been to the back end of our property because of the depth of the snow and the storms. Wow. I didn't realize you guys got that much snow in your area. Yeah. Yeah. They, what was it? The governor declared it a state of emergency or something. We went under level three. Do not leave your house. Yeah. We weren't allowed on the roads. Roads are still pretty rough, but they're scooping them. Huh.
08:21Wow, I'm sorry to hear that. Winter hit with a vengeance for you guys. This is our second year here for winter and this is so far the worst so far, with snowfall. Yeah, yeah, definitely. We were not as prepared. We were told that we were gonna get between one to one and a half feet of snow and we were like, okay, we can handle that for a few days, but we ended up getting three feet of snow and trying to unbury things that we didn't know we needed at the time.
08:51It's become interesting. Yeah, that's one word for it. Interesting. Okay, so when people come to stay with you and it's not three feet of snow on the ground, do they get to help out on the farm or do they get to see what you guys do or how does it work? We would love that. We're open to like lots of different things like that. We've had people that want to see the animals.
09:20and we've had them and we had one. I have an option for photography because I'm also a photographer to add to our package. So if they wanted to have like their picture taken while they're here. So we did have a couple that did a little photo shoot. We did a photo shoot with them. We offer eggs for them to purchase if they wanna have from fresh eggs from our homestead.
09:44We, it's, hip camp is really open to like your own interpretation. It's kind of cool. You can kind of do what, what you want and charge for with what you want. Like some people charge for boat rental, but we have a couple of kayaks in a boat and we just let them use them, you know, like we don't charge for things like that. But then like, um, I have like, just. We're, uh, we're still figuring it all out too, because we really don't know what.
10:13exactly people want. It seems like most of the people really like to just come and be there in the back alone by themselves and they have the best time ever and then they leave and we don't even see them sometimes. We have a beautiful forest back there. It's definitely older and it's gives them plenty of privacy as they need it. Very nice. Is is hip camp
10:40a business like Airbnb is or what? I've never heard of it. Yeah, it is. It's kind of like Airbnb. We use them and so we don't have, you know, like we're insured through hip camp for the campers that come to our property. We're insured like similar to what Airbnb does, but it's for landowners.
11:04Most of the, some of them are even landowners where people don't live on the land and they, they do hip camp it out. Huh. I'd never heard of this. This is very cool. We, it's pretty fun. You should look it up. There's probably some around you that you don't even know about. I bet there are. I'm in Minnesota. I would bet my ass. There's probably some here. We have a cute little old like teardrop, not teardrop, but bigger than a teardrop trailer.
11:33that our kids use when they come to visit in the summertime, they sleep out there and it's in pretty good shape. I bet we could do a hip camp at our place with that trailer. I bet that would be really fun. You probably totally could. Yeah. It's fun. Like I'm one of the ones that's near us that they offer baked breads to their campers, which is kind of cool because they're like a bakery. We don't do that because we're not really doing the bakery stuff, but I think that's so fun.
12:03And there's lots of different kinds of hip camps. It's very interesting. And there are some where they do like, you can do a cabin or a building or a camper or something like that, like glamping type stuff too. It's not just tent camping. And we do have sometimes we have, I think some of the funnest visitors we've had are ones that were just driving through and they needed a place to stay for the night. We get that too with hip camps.
12:35Nice. So you meet all kinds of different people. Oh yeah, yeah. We've had some really fun and we haven't, I mean we've, we haven't had a ton of visitors but we've had enough that I can say we've had a lot of fun interesting mix of visitors and most of them have been really pleasant too. I would say we've only had like one or two that weren't too great but our backyard's kind of creepy and I think they got a little creeped out.
13:03Okay. All right. So my next question is you have a son named Max, is that right? Yes, we do. And he does videos on YouTube? Yes, Max does. And Max actually said, can I talk to you? So if you ever want to talk to Max, Max would talk to you as well. He loves the homesteading life. Like he's super, super into it.
13:34I would love to talk to Max sometime, maybe in January we can figure out a time to do that. That would be fun. How old is Max? You would enjoy it. Max is till he'll be 13 in January. We have other kids too and they're there, but Max is super into it. Super into it. Yeah. I will have to, I will have to have you and Max talk to me and we'll schedule a time and Max and I can have a chat. I've never talked to a kid as the interviewee.
14:03on my podcast yet. If you're okay with that, that would be really fun. I am so okay with it. And you will love talking to Max because he loves to talk about it to everyone that he can. And he loves to brag about his, you know, 4-H turkeys and everything that he's got going on. He's the vice president of a 4-H club and he's super proud of that. And he'll really enjoy talking to you.
14:30I am so excited. Please talk to Max tomorrow and ask him if he would be kind enough to chat with me in January and we'll set up a date. I think that would be so freaking fun. That was good. Okay. So, my next question is how did you guys get into this?
14:52Well, we started with that first round of chickens and we were living in, we had three acres and we figured we had plenty of room to do what we were doing. And we were on the edge of an HOA and part of an HOA that shared a lake. And when we bought the house, there was a little tiny itty bitty chicken coop next to it and the realtor told us to get chickens and we asked the HOA for their.
15:18list of rules and they never provided them to us before buying the house or after buying the house. But a couple years in we had put up a garage and I guess it wasn't allowed to face the road and be seen from the road. And so they sent us a letter and in that letter they mentioned our chickens. So I was kind of like, I don't know what should we do? And we both kind of thought maybe we should.
15:47At the time, the market in that area for housing was really good. And we thought maybe we could sell our house and get more land. Uh huh. Yeah, that's what we did. We did a crazy choice. We're just going to leave it all. Because you know what? It's not worth fighting the HOA all the time. And, and we were like, we're going to build up higher than this than what we already have and we're not going to stop. Yeah. And then when we came here, they took us to see the property. Like we came here and it was the son of the.
16:16the parents that had owned the property, one of the sons, and he met us out front and took us out back to see the property, not the house, the property first. And we were kind of like ready for it, you know, like we didn't even need to see the house. We're like, we can live here. It's all good. Because we just fell in love with it. And we had to sell our house within a week to make the deal. Oh. And then we had like two days to move.
16:45Yeah, it was insane. Wow. It was an insane week. That's a lot. Yeah. That's a lot. Not leaving the house to let showings happen and not knowing where we're going to be. And it was a very long, a few weeks that we were moving and getting things situated and chaos involved in that and unpacking. And you know what? I still want to try to, you know, even if they would have allowed us to do what we did, it was a lot.
17:13it wouldn't have been enough for us. We get a sense of fulfillment doing what we're doing and I would have wanted to stop them. We knew we wanted to go further than chickens. And when they said something about the chickens, we couldn't, we just, we knew it was, you know, if we could do it, if we could make it work, we should and we did. And now we're like, no, working on it all the time. Oh yeah, we just had to put a fence up to block the doors for the garage before we moved out as well.
17:41Yeah, so you couldn't see it from a road. So we had like two weeks notice to put up a fence and get all these things in line and it was chaotic. Uh huh. Yeah, we had a fence in Soho before we could move too. I forgot about that. Yeah, that was really cool. That was insane. Yeah, the HOA was going to put a lean on our house so that we couldn't sell it if we didn't put up a fence. Huh. And the fence is four feet tall.
18:08because there was a hill in front of the garage and you could only see the very top of the garage anyways from the road. So the fence only needed to be four feet tall so that you couldn't see the top of the garage. And 140 foot wide. So it's much bigger than a 8 by 10 garage door. I'm like, I don't understand it. But if this makes you happy and I have in writing, we'll do it. I don't really care as long as we can move on. Right and get out. Uh huh.
18:34Yeah, we told us the HOA was just to take care of the lake that was connected to the property. So we believed them Okay, two things you were like no clucking way am I giving up my chickens and number two HOA's are ridiculous. I I have never lived anywhere where I had to deal with that, but my mother-in-law did and She was told that she could not have like a raised bed
19:04outside of her little home. She could have patio bucket tomatoes, you know, because you can move those, but she couldn't put in a small raised bed because once you put in a small raised bed, that's where it stays. And she was very frustrated with that. And that's not the same as being told that you can't have your garage so that it can be seen from the street.
19:32We can't move the garage if you wanted to, to make it face the other way. Because there's not enough width of land. If we could make it at a like 90 degree angle, we could just angle it a little. It's already a pre-hab metal building that was huge. It's like a four car garage. Yeah. I don't, I do not understand. Like I get that there need to be rules and regulations for some things, but sometimes I feel like HOAs just like find the most ridiculous nitpicky things.
20:02to be like, no, you can't have that, or no, you have to do it a certain way. And I'm like, what are they talking about? Across the road from that house was a giant field of the protected farmland. And in the back of that field, while we lived there, somebody put up a garage with four doors. So it's not like even we were in an area where there wasn't garages facing the road. And it was a septic transfer site behind that.
20:32Oh my god. It was ridiculous. And we had three acres. So, you know, it wasn't like a typical cookie cutter, H.O.A. It was. It was old farmland that was not being allowed to be used as farmland anymore. My boys would say they were redonkulous. Totally. Geez.
20:55Well, I'm glad that you got out from under that situation because you never would have been happy there. And you sound like you're really happy where you are. Yeah, we both were living in separate houses in separate cities when we bought the house with the HOA. We wanted to get a place between so that we could live together. So that was the solution. And it seemed like a really good one at the time because it was a good one.
21:23We didn't, you know, we were told that the HOA is just to take care of the lake. And like, I'm like all about conservation. So that sounded great. And yeah, we lived there for like two years and didn't have any problem until we started getting chickens and putting up a garage. We just had rabbits too there. Yeah, we did have rabbits there. They didn't know about that. Okay. Well, the rabbits were on the down low, so that's good.
21:52It's really interesting because back in the old days, hang on one second, back in the old days, people were all about community. You know, you knew your neighbors and your towns were small and everybody knew each other and they all helped each other out. And yes, there were disagreements between neighbors, but that happens. And then we got away from that and we spread out away from people.
22:23And now if you're going to be back to that sense of community with your neighbors close, it usually is too close or it's an HOA situation. And we do things like move away from towns outside of town to where our neighbors are like half a mile away so that we're not stuck in all those rules and regulations. And it's so backwards to me that if you want to be close with your neighbors and feel like you're part of a community.
22:52You have to abide by all these rules. It's just, it's so dumb to me. I don't know what happened. Well, the awesome thing is when we were moving day one, pretty much when we were moving our next door neighbor of our new, new place that we were living now, he came up to me and asked me, Hey, if there's anything you need, you can, if you need my trailer, you can have my trailer for now. Like anything you need, we'll help you out. We don't know him. We didn't know him before. And he was just a nice character. He's like,
23:22You need to borrow my truck. You can borrow my truck. He's just a nice older man. And, and you know what? We ended up needing his trailer. I'm like, I'm like, I wasn't sure how we're going to get our chicken coop over because we were just renting a big box truck and I'm like, I don't know how we're going to get this giant. So I have it on sleds type and it's eight foot by eight foot on the base. And then it's about 10 foot tall. And I'm like, I don't know how we're going to move it. I'm like, it's.
23:50It was kind of wet in the backyard and stuff. I don't know how we're moving. And then he comes up to me and says, if you need anything, let's let me know. I was like, you know, I'll take that trailer for a day because I need to move a big old chicken coop. So we hooked me and a coworker of mine. We hooked it up to the trailer and we're taking this big giant chicken coop. All the way about an hour away from where we.
24:14we're living to our new house. From Cleveland to the North East corner of Ohio. Getting all kinds of looks because we're going down the side streets, not on the highway as much as we could, you know. And all kinds of looks. It was awesome, you know. Well, that's great that he was willing to help. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we have we've we've found a lot more community in the like you said, out here where there's less your neighbors aren't as close. But at the same time,
24:42It's been very interesting to see the different communities that we've lived in, because we've lived in so many different places. I lived in the area that we both graduated from, and he had lived in the city up in Cleveland. Then we moved to a more rural area, but then we still had the HOA in that rural area. That area is a completely different area from any of the other areas we've ever lived in.
25:12And where we live now is another whole, another world. It's really, really cool to see like, but at the same time, you're right. We're missing community in a lot of spaces. And it's hard because there's, there's definitely a divide in the country with people in general, and it's scary sometimes to see it. It really is. And I think the other thing that caused.
25:41people to, I don't know how to say this right, back in the old days you had the one room school house and kids walked like a mile to two miles to school or they had a buckboard and they had horses and they got rides to school. And then it ended up that we became these communities where kids went to a big school district and they rode school buses and your community was the parents of the kids that your kids went to school with.
26:10That's great while you have kids in school, but like I'm 55, my kids are grown. And so the friends that I make are friends that I meet out in the world. They're people I meet not with that immediate tie in to my kids with friends. And so making friends is hard. And every time I talk with a new person for the podcast, I'm like, I feel like I made a new friend today. That was great. And like,
26:38I'm never probably going to meet you guys, but I get my social stuff met with my podcast because I don't really go hang out with people very often. But when my kids were young, it really helped knowing my neighbors and having friends because you can't raise kids without other people in your life or you will go insane. That is so true. It's so true. So schools really help.
27:08Yeah, the schools, the schools help. Um, I've noticed like in our area, there's, there's a lot, we're really, really fortunate we haven't taken advantage of any of it yet, but there's a lot of art opportunities that I think would be good for kids too, and adults. There's a lot of, but yeah, it's hard. Cause I mean, I have a hard time making friends too. Cause I don't want to leave. I like being at home. Yep. It's not here. And I have all my stuff I need.
27:36Uh-huh. Yeah. And I have a smidge of social anxiety. So I really like where I live. I really like having people I trust come over and have coffee or a snack and hang out and talk. I don't love going out and meeting a bunch of strange people. It's not my favorite thing to do. That's one thing with hip camp that's been kind of cool too. We seem to get a lot of people that are nice. They're usually pretty pleasant. They have the same mindset. They are
28:04They care about the earth, you know, they leave no trace. And that's really, I can really appreciate people like that. We just, it's nice that we have the internet to make community because if it wasn't for the internet community, I'm not sure what we would have fully because that's where you can find all the information. That's where we've learned everything pretty much. You know, we obsessively research all the things that we need to know on the internet. We sure do.
28:34I love that you said leave no trace because I always translate that into my in my head to leave it better than you found it. And I like leave it better than you found it better than leave no trace because leaving no trace is easy but leaving it better than you found it requires something of you, you know? Mm hmm. Yeah, we're trying to figure out a way to make more community too of our hip camp. We're hopeful.
29:00We're slowly building, like, we would like to do like an online group, hopefully eventually where people might want to join so that they could possibly talk about their experiences here and if they wanted to add to things that or do things here, we would be okay with having help, you know, like, or having their creative whatever that they want to add.
29:28here. Like there's so many people that have come and had ideas and the like why no one took like a bunch of like sticks and made like a nice little area for their tent. And they were super proud of it. And it was really cool. And I was like, that's so awesome. We'd love to have more people that just want to leave it better like that, you know? Yeah. Yep. I think that's great. So what's the plan for the future in general? I mean,
29:58Right. We also have ducks, geese, and rabbits. Yeah. And are you are you growing gardens and stuff too? We are working on setting up the garden, the area where they used to have the garden before we even moved in. So it's been overgrown. We were trying to start it naturally where we didn't have, you know, anything to put down like any plastics or and stuff like that. But the land is really seeded there
30:27It has been difficult. So this winter or this fall, we've planted some winter rye to hopefully choke out anything that's in the land for now. And then next planting season, we'll probably be covering it to hope that we can get rid of the rest of the stuff within a year or two and hope to eventually get to that point where we can naturally grow our food.
30:56in the earth there without having anything added to it. We had a wonderful garden in our old house and we plan to have a wonderful one here eventually. We just have to amend the soil enough to the point where it can really flourish the way that we need it to. But we live now in this wonderful zone where it's very moist and I have inoculated logs with mushrooms and we have a wine cap bed full of that grows wine mushrooms.
31:26I've taken photos of so many mushrooms, I've lost track of how many and I obsessively research mushrooms almost daily. So we've got, you know, even our garden isn't growing like it used to with tomatoes and cucumbers, but we do have things growing in other ways. Fantastic. You have everything open to you at this point, because I get it.
31:54trying to grow stuff in a garden plot that hasn't had anything grown on it in forever, it's gonna take you a while to get the soil to where you want it to be. But you will be able to grow a really nice garden in a couple of years. So you will have animals, you will have produce, you will have the hip camp thing. You've got a little boy who's very into doing videos of all the homesteading stuff and you have other kids who are probably doing wonderful things too or will be as they get older. You guys are just set!
32:24for like miraculous fun times ahead. Right, I mean, you know, it's, yeah, it is. It's really fun. And we're hopeful that we can get things to go along. I mean, you know, we'll see. Like we've had some setbacks here and there that they're discouraging, but at the same time, they're usually a little bit empowering. Like, well, we can make it work even better if we just work, try a little harder, you know?
32:52Yeah, how could we make it better? And our top thing that we're trying to do is make everything sustainable. So chickens, they're going to make their own chickens, the pigs, they're going to make their own pigs. We don't want to have to continuously bring in more animals. We want to grow them out on our farm or homestead. Right. Like born here and bred here. And very nice.
33:18We really hope to be able to finish in here. We'd like to offer meat to people eventually. There's a lot of red tape with that. So we're not sure about how that's going to go about if we, you know, we have access because we're, if our pig has a lot of piglets, we're going to have to figure out where the rest of that meat's going because it might be more meat than we could handle. Bet it'll be easier than HOA rules. Right? Never getting the government systems.
33:48Yeah, yeah, definitely. I'm sure I'm not super worried with the larger animals. It's all just red tape with you know Taking to a proper butcher and do we don't take them off our property. We really want them to have their full life here That's why we struggle with that. Yeah, it's the struggle between What we feel is right versus what you know What we're allowed to do. Yeah in some states they allow you to to start the process on the property and then they take the carcass and
34:16you know, and they put it like in a cooler van and take it to the butcher shop. I don't think they do that here. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's how it is in Minnesota too. I'm not positive. Do not quote me. Um, I'm not, I'm not in the butcher business so I don't know, but yes, definitely do your research and do it right. And that way, that way you don't get hand slapped or at worst shut down because that would be terrible.
34:46We do it ourselves if we have to. Yeah, we can be a small animal producer with a little bit of red tape without having to take things places, but anything other than that, it's just a lot of navigation with the government. Yes, and funding. We've got to fund ourselves. Yes, and on that note, have you guys looked into grants? Because grants are a wonderful thing too.
35:13We had someone come out here from Ash Jabila's Soil and Water District. They have a free program with most of the, like I think with most local governments, there's like a free program that's offered by the government to help you out with determining how to handle your property and stuff like that. But she offered us a lot of good help. She talked about
35:42a few grants that we might qualify for like, with the USDA, there's like some type of forest pasture raised program that we have to look in that we can look into and rotational grazing and stuff. And other than that, like a forestry program, if we wanted to set up a program with the forestry divisions.
36:12to harvest our trees every so many years, which I don't, we're not really entertaining that idea, but it can lead to tax write-offs and stuff like that for your property. We're just learning about everything really. We're trying and no, we haven't had any grants, but we're, I know there's a few different ones out there that, and we're finding, we're finding what we can. You hear anything about any of them, let us know.
36:39I absolutely will because it's really important for people who are just starting out because this lifestyle costs money. Who knew? It's not just you just buy a piece of property and go crazy because you can't. You don't have the funds to do it unless you start out rich and not very many people start out rich and then buy property. It's not how that works. So the grants can come in really handy.
37:09There are also loans that you can get that are lower interest rate things because you're homesteaders. And I don't know if Ohio has them, but Minnesota has them. And I don't want to take out any loans, so I'm not looking into that, but it's another option for people. So anyway, we've been talking for 37 minutes, you guys. I'm excited that you spent that time with me tonight on a Friday night.
37:36And I appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Thank you. And thank you for documenting homesteaders. It's really a cool thing you're doing. I am trying. I am trying so hard. You keep us going. Yes, exactly. Your own little community. And it's awesome. It's so cool. Thank you. Thanks. You too. And thanks for having us. All right. Bye.
 

Rising Phoenix Community Farm

Today I'm talking with Heather-Marie and John at Rising Phoenix Community Farm. You can follow on Facebook as well.
If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee 
https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes
00:00This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Heather Marie and John at Rising Phoenix Community Farm. How are you guys? Good. Thank you. Yep. Great. How are you? I'm good. It's a beautiful day in Minnesota. Yeah. We have snow up here.
00:28We got a little bit overnight and I didn't know it was going to snow. We got like an inch in Lasur. What'd you guys get? We didn't get any last night, but it was maybe a week ago and we have maybe two winches, something like that. And you're light. Yeah. And you're in Barnum. Is that right? Yes. Half hour south of Duluth. Oh, so you're up in the really pretty country. It is pretty up here.
00:55Okay, well, tell me about yourselves and what you guys do. Yeah, I started the farm in 2011 and I didn't own land and proceeded over the next 10 years to move five times. And yep, I just leased land and so kind of moved from place to place. Also during that time, I built a tiny house. So it's a little house on wheels.
01:25and that got moved around so at least I had a place to live. In 2011, I started a very small CSA. It was just me. Then John and I met in 2018. Then in 2020, we bought our farm and have had a permanent place since then. We do flowers and veggies and we have a 56-member CSA.
01:57Very nice. And I'm so glad you found your permanent farm. Because I sort of do understand when we, back in 2019, I think, the summer of 2019, or summer 2020, a friend of ours said, do you guys want to grow a garden over at my place? Because we didn't have the room. And they had 24 acres and she had a perfect spot for a big old garden, but she didn't want to.
02:25She didn't want to do a garden, but she knew we did want to. And so we took her up on her offer and that went really well until they decided that they were going to go ahead and get their pole barn built and the contracting company decided that the best place to put the pole barn was right beside where the garden was, which meant it would be shaded out completely the next year.
02:47And that's part of the reason we actually bought our place in 2020, in August of 2020, because we were like, the only way we're ever going to have a big garden is if we actually move somewhere where we have some land. So I do feel your pain on this. And I'm really excited that you found a place that you don't have to move again from. Yes. Yeah, we are very excited about it as well. Yeah, it's gone. It's gone well. I think we were really lucky. We started looking in early 2020, you know, in the middle of the lockdown and
03:15We didn't have anything else to do. Looking for land. And, um, this farm was, uh, in the same family for four generations. And, um, uh, one member of that family is still just down the road from us. And, uh, you know, we, we actually got married on our farm the year after we bought it in 2022 and, and members of the, of the Johnson family, who, who, you know, whose family goes back a few generations on this land. We're actually at the wedding. So.
03:44It's pretty fun to have these connections to the land. And of course they go further back than that. And we can talk more about that if you want it to. I do want to, but I also want to say how sweet is it that you got to get married on your land? That's amazing. Yeah. That was pretty, pretty special and everybody gathered here and, um, yeah, it was, it was pretty great. Awesome. All right. So tell me, tell me more about the land that you bought. Yeah. So it's, it's a 40, it's a 40 acre farm and, uh, it's.
04:14You know, we were looking for, I guess, you know, everybody's looking for that perfect piece of land, but we like some of its imperfections too. It's on some rolling hills. It's on a busier road than we would like, but that's good for us because we are able to have a rather than go to farmers markets, we sell a lot of our produce on Fridays at a farm stand here on the property. So that's been great. And we've in the process got to know our neighbors. And that's also how we
04:42kind of opened the door to new customers. And then, yeah, going back further, we're also trying to learn more about the pre-colonial history of this land and the indigenous history of the land. And we've learned some things. We're really lucky that we are just down the road from the Fond du Lac reservation and have actually been able to grow some produce for a CSA program that they have as well. So sort of making those connections slowly has been fun also. Awesome.
05:12I love it. I'm like a big history buff. I wasn't when I was in school. I hated social studies. I hated history classes because it was just dates and names. But when I started getting into historical fiction and then into historical books that weren't fiction, I was like, oh, this is where all the stories live. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really great when you can find out actual stories of what really happened around you and in your family. Yeah.
05:42Yeah, that's really important. It is. And I, I kept telling my parents when I would come home from school that I just really didn't like my history classes. And my dad laughed and said, they're not teaching you history stories. They're teaching you facts. He said, wait until you discover some books about history and you start reading about it on your own and educating yourself, you're going to love it. And he was not wrong.
06:11So history is amazing as long as you can get the actual stories that go with the names and the dates. Yeah, it's true. And we're fortunate, among other things, I'm a journalism professor up at the University of Minnesota Duluth. And so I write an occasional column for our local independently owned newspaper. And the editor there recommended a book to me, and it's called North Country, The Making of Minnesota.
06:41It's written by, I think, a history professor at St. Cloud State, and I really recommend it to people. It tells the indigenous perspective and the indigenous story in a really strong way. And it's just a really, I started it last winter and I'll pick it up again this winter. It's really, really, I recommend it to anybody learning, interested in that history. I will have to find it. One more thing on history and then we'll get to the other stuff you guys do.
07:09I live in LaSore. Like I said, we moved to LaSore in 2020 and I knew nothing about this area. We were living in Jordan before that. And there is a history center in St. Peter, which is the town south of us. And apparently we don't live more than 10 miles from where all the Sioux Indians were marched through Minnesota.
07:35I had read a little bit about that, but I went to this museum and I was like, man, people still suck, but they sucked then too. Because what happened to those Native Americans is just reprehensible and it makes me crazy. And so I went to this museum with my kid who was, I don't know, probably 18, 19 at the time.
08:03And he was very taken with all the farming stuff that they talked about at the museum. And I'm standing there with tears in my eyes and he's like, what's wrong? And I said, you need to read this thing too. And he read it and he was like, oh man. He said, why do we have to be so sucky as human beings? Yeah. It's, it's, it's remarkable. And this book really does a good job in getting into that history and the complexities of even like the treaties and the money that was involved in those.
08:32Yeah, there's some unbelievable stories and like you say, unfortunately history classes maybe don't give us all the perspectives. No, they do not. They get whitewashed a lot and that's unfortunate because I think that we should learn from our mistakes in history and a lot of the times we just keep doing the same things over and over again. So that's all I have to say about that because we're gonna go down a rabbit hole that's gonna be way too deep. So did I see...
09:00Heather, did you make prints as well? Yeah, yeah. I had gone back to school thinking I wanted to teach art and then did not end up teaching. But yeah, I have an art degree. And in the wintertime, I've been trying to kind of dive back into the art world. And so yeah, I do linoleum block prints. And it's the first time we've put them
09:29on our website this year and so we have them up on the website for sale and I do a little fiber and some jewelry as well. So yeah, it's nice to have the winter time to do some of those things. Use a different part of my brain. Yes. The linoleum, lock prints are super fun. I did that in an art class in high school. Yeah.
09:56The chisels that we use, I was just so impressed with how that all works. Yeah. And I don't remember what the print was that I did. It was a very long time ago. But our art teacher was fantastic and she was like, so now that you carved out all this stuff, here's how it's going to work. And she's a little ink over it. We're going to lay it flat on a piece of paper and press it. And the pieces that aren't carved out are going to make a design on the paper. And I was like, oh. And
10:24We had some really talented kids in our class and there were some very nice prints that came out of that. And a few of us traded, you know, we made more copies and we traded and I had three or four of my friends prints framed and hanging in my room because they were so beautiful. Wow. It's a really, I don't want to say it's an easy art form, but it's really fun to do. Yeah, for sure. And it's...
10:52I've done some other printmaking too where it's called etching, but you have to have an acid bath and there's a little bit more of an up cost. Linoleum printmaking can get very complicated and the prints that people make can be quite big. But it is at least an art medium that you can do at home with not too many parts and
11:21up costs and stuff. So it is nice to be able to do that at home. Yeah, and there's something really satisfying in the actual carving out the design I found. I thought that was very relaxing. And no lie, I screwed up the first one. I pushed too hard with the chisel tool and ruined it. And I went to my art teacher and I was like, I think I screwed it up. And she said, yep, you did. She said, you got to go easier.
11:50you know, don't press quite so hard. She said, and here's a brand new piece, start again. She said, you got a good thing going, do it again. And so I wasn't intimidated by it because she was very kind about the fact that everyone makes mistakes when they're doing something new. Yeah, yep, for sure, yeah. I think that's one of the great things about art is that there's some good lessons in there. Yep, patience and everybody makes mistakes and.
12:18the wonder of it when it comes out right and comes out better than you even thought it was going to be. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. It can be pretty satisfying. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to touch on the fact that you do those because my podcast is all about people is also about people who craft. And I was like, Oh, she's gardening and she's a crafter. I got a two for one today. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll brag about Heather Marie a little bit more too. She's really
12:46taken her art and her design skills and abilities with flowers, both live or fresh cut flowers and doing arrangements there. But then then she dries flowers, I'll let you talk about it. And it's done some amazing stuff with dried flower arrangements and wreaths. And they've her and a woman named Christina who works with us on the farm. I've done some workshops and are planning more things along those along those lines as well. Yeah.
13:15Yeah, I added flowers. I think I grew some flowers like in the very beginning and then added a few things over time, but it hasn't been since being at this location that I've dove really more into flowers and bouquets and, um, and yeah, I think it sort of uses the same side of my brain as art. And, and, uh, and so it's sort of nice to have that.
13:41of my brain being used during the summer, otherwise it wouldn't be. And so flowers have sort of allowed me to be artistic and creative while also, you know, kind of expanding our offerings for the farm. Yes. Do you cook too? We do. That's where John excels. John is an amazing cook and a great photographer and great writer. And so, yeah, we both have kind of artistic ways.
14:10you know, things that we do artistically differently. Yeah, cooking, cooking brings out that same part of my brain that that doing painting or, or, I don't know, crocheting or any kind of art form does. Yeah, yeah, we've had, you know, one of the things we do with our weekly CSA, and I guess just for people who aren't familiar with them, but a CSA is, is it basically a vegetable subscription, right? And you sign up at the beginning of the season for either a full or a half share and you get weekly.
14:39boxes of produce. And so with that, we put out a newsletter and include lots of different recipes in there. And it's really fun to experiment and we try and encourage our members to share, you know, how they've prepared the vegetables as well. And just to get people excited about eating things they're not completely familiar with and to eat seasonally. And then this this time of year, you know, our CSA is done, but we've got lots of
15:08our freezers and our walking cooler and our cupboards are filled with produce that we've either pickled or canned or frozen and put up. And so this is the first year we're actually experimenting a little bit with making our own kimchi and sauerkraut and pickles and selling some of those on a really small scales right now, but hoping to expand that side of things as well. But our main goal is to feed ourselves over the winter months. And that's gone well.
15:38Yes, and I don't want to forget about this, so I'm going to ask now, can people, I don't know how to ask this the right way, if somebody wants to buy a subscription to the CSA for someone as a gift, like for a Christmas present for next summer, can they do that? Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, this time of year is, you know, going into winter is sort of, you know, a time for many farmers where they're not getting any income.
16:06And so I know other farmers do this as well. And so we are doing it this year as well, where we're sort of offering some things for Christmas gifts for birthday gifts. So block prints, we are we put up our flower subscription for next year. So we have a full share option, and then a punch card option. And so yeah, those those gifts can be can be those shares can be
16:36for Christmas, for gifts. Awesome, do you let people know that? Because if you don't, you should be. Oh yeah, yep, yep, we actually just launched it. So we sent it out on our, we have a mailing list of not only our CSA members, but other people who have signed up for it, whether it's from our farm stand or elsewhere. And then, yeah, on our social media, we posted it there as well. Good, I can't tell you how thrilled I would have been.
17:0515, 20 years ago, if somebody had bought me a CSA subscription as a Christmas present, I would have been tickled. Now, not so much because we grow our own garden and we did offer a CSA for a couple of years. And so now probably wouldn't be as impressed with getting a CSA subscription for Christmas because I don't need it. But oh man, 15 years ago, I would love that. And speaking of preserving things.
17:34I literally just got a black garlic cooker machine thing in the mail today that I ordered because I tried black garlic a couple years back. That was already made and I love it. It's so yummy. And I was talking to a guy who makes it and he was telling me the best way to do it is to actually get a black garlic fermenter slash cooker and just do it that way. So I'm going to be trying my hand at making my own black garlic here in the next two weeks.
18:03Oh, that sounds fun. Yeah, we grow quite a bit of garlic and sell it raw and then look for other ways to preserve it as well. But we have not gone down the black garlic route yet, but I've heard good things about it. I don't think I've even actually tried it, to be honest. We did. We haven't? It's all like Sydney when we were visiting. But yeah, maybe. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. It's really yummy. It's like candy.
18:28the way that we had it was in some kind of marinade or something. It was through one of the meal places where you order the ingredients for food and it gets shipped to you and you make the recipe. And I had never heard of black garlic before and I was like, hmm, I don't know about this, you know, and tried it. And it's sort of like garlic, but it's like a
18:56It's sweet, but it also is garlicky. It's really yummy. Does it, uh, is it shelf stable or how do you preserve it once you make it? Um, in the fridge, it's good for six months in a, in a, in a glass jar with a screw in lid and think it's shelf stable for like a month. If you just have it in a jar with an airtight lid on the counter, I think right about today. So, well, another, uh, um,
19:23way that we like to preserve garlic is somebody recommended it to us who came to our farmstand. It's a Lebanese garlic sauce. I'm sure I'm saying it wrong, but it's called Tuome. I think it's T-U-O-M-E. It's very simple. It's just you make a paste with kosher salt and the garlic in the food processor. Then you just slowly drizzle in a neutral oil and some
19:53but just a wonderful way to slather garlic all over everything. Yeah, it's sort of a fluffy cloud of garlic. And that'll keep well too. I've read that keeps four to six months. We don't know because usually when we make it, it's gone in about two weeks. But yeah. I bet it's good on garlic bread. Oh, it'd be great. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. We dipped it with we had that just fresh veggies at Thanksgiving and dipped it in that. Nice. So it's sort of like a garlic hummus idea.
20:21Sort of. Yeah, it's very strong. Yeah, yeah. The texture is very similar. Okay. Awesome. I might have to try that. Yeah. See, this is part of the reason I love having these conversations with you and everybody else I've talked to because I keep getting all these new ideas to try because homesteaders and farmers are nothing if they're not innovative. Yep. Yeah, that's part of the fun of it all, right? Is trying to learn new things and think about different fun ways to feed yourself and to feed others as well.
20:50Yes, and I actually love the feeding others more than I love feeding myself. My husband goes to the farmer's market because I have social anxiety, so I don't like being around a lot of people in person. But I'm so excited when he comes home and tells me about all the stories that people tell him about what they're doing with the food that we grow. It's really fun. Yeah, that's one of our favorite things.
21:16like it is a lot of work. You got to get to put your extrovert hat on for a little while during our Friday farm stands. It can get really crowded and people just love to stop and visit and they'll talk about how they cook something or what they've made. And it feels really good. You know, this is historically a farming community, but a lot of the farms are no longer active. And so people are really excited to see us and other farmers coming into the area and and and you know, rediscovering
21:45local foods and things like that. So it's really cool to talk about the history of the land and the ways to prepare the different food and all of that is just, I don't know, it's really rewarding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. We had a guy come screaming into our driveway the first summer we were here. We were outside working in the garden and he pulled into the driveway really fast and he stopped and parked and I was like, who is this? Because we didn't know anybody. And
22:14He was like, I'm sorry. He said, I was just so excited to see somebody working in the garden. And I said, okay, hi, who are you? And he said, well, he said, I'm so and so, and my dad used to own this place. And my shoulders came down and I went, oh, please tell me about it. And come to find out there used to be an old actual barn, like a barn raised barn, like there was a barn raising to build the barn. Yeah.
22:43on our property, it's no longer here. And he told us about that. And he said that the last time anything had been grown where our garden was, was 40 years ago. And it was a pumpkin garden. That's all that was grown here. Wow. But you've got some pretty good soil down there, I would guess. We do accept that there's a bunch of clay underneath about, underneath about 12 inches of really good black dirt. It's clay. So this spring when it rained and rained and rained, our garden was soup.
23:12because there was nowhere for the water to go. Yes. So it was a very rough growing season this summer. We were very happy to see the summer be over and we're keeping everything we've got crossed that next summer is better. Sure, yeah, yep, we hear that. But it's really weird here because we live on a busy road too. And so we have a farm stand and people come in in the summer and buy whatever we have in the farm stand. And...
23:42That farm stand went up two summers ago. And two summers ago, we had people pulling in the driveway at least 12 to 14 times a day just to see what we had in the farm stand. And we have a dog that is a very good watchdog and she barks at everything that pulls in the driveway. So needless to say, two summers ago, it was very noisy here from mid-June until September. Sure. Do you do a self-service stand? Yes.
24:11Yeah. Okay. Yep. We do. We limit ours at the moment. We'll see how things have progressed here. But right now we just have it on Fridays in the afternoon. And so we spend, you know, we spend that whole morning harvesting for the farm stand. So it's, but we do hear from people who would like, you know, like to be able to pick up at other times, but some of our you know, some of our regular customers who work out relationships with and
24:39So if they need something, they know that they can just reach out to us and we'll get an order together for them. Awesome. Do you guys have like a cooler in your farm stand for stuff that needs like the leafy greens and stuff or just you just have stuff out? Yeah, I mean, we have we have a we. We we built a walk-in cooler in our barn and that's I don't know 15 by 8, something like that.
25:08And so everything gets harvested, washed, packed, and put in there. It kept cool. Oh, sorry. Okay. And then we put things just in coolers to have over at the farm stand, but we have tables and put everything out onto those tables. And so yes, the coolers are over there, but it's not like people are going in and out of the coolers. Okay. We don't have one.
25:35And so we're trying to figure out the best way to make that happen because the leafy greens are okay for the most part until the end of July and most of August. And then we're like, maybe we don't cut them and put them in the farm stand. Maybe we just wait and see if somebody wants them. We cut them when they come. Sure. Yeah. I know some people have used, have made like a walk-in cooler in a covered trailer.
26:05and sort of, and then it can kind of be moved closer to the farm stand. My goodness, I'm so sorry. He keeps turning it off and it just keeps coming back on. And then I know some people who have just like bought coolers and have them at their farm stand, kind of like the fancy glass ones, like big refrigerators. I think if we...
26:29eventually do a second day for our farm stand. We thought about doing like a, like we're here on a Friday, but then it's self-serve on a Saturday. We've thought about getting an actual like refrigerator so that some of those things can just, like you say, it just, they stay cool to a certain point and then they just don't look so great. Yeah. Wilted lettuce is gross looking and you're never going to make it come back to the way it looked when you picked it. It just doesn't work. Yep. Yep. For sure.
27:00Okay, well, my last question, because we're almost at 30 minutes, and I feel like we didn't really do any talking or anything substantial, but I'm sure that we did. I just, I get sidetracked by things that come up and I'm like, oh, what did I actually wanna ask them? You sound very happy. Are you very happy doing what you're doing? I mean, I guess it depends on when you ask us. If you ask us.
27:25mid-August when it's hot and everything is taking takeover by weeds. But yeah, I think we do love what we do and yes, it's a ton of work and we don't make a lot of money, but we know that we are providing food for ourselves. We're providing food for our local community with just within a 10-mile radius.
27:50Um, and then, you know, Duluth is sort of our biggest town nearby and, and we're bringing food into Duluth as well. So knowing that we're feeding people and making people happy and, and contributing to our community, I think is, is pretty great. And we get to play outside. Um, and, uh, and that's pretty great too. So, but it, you know, I think it's easy to romanticize owning a farm and growing vegetables and all of that. And if you just listen to our half hour discussion, it sounds like we're just.
28:19having a blast and making food, but it's, it's, it's unbelievably hard work, as you know, and, you know, during the summer months, I mean, if the sun's up, we're probably working and as we age, that's going to get harder. But it's, you know, there's a high burnout we have, you know, up here, there's a strong local farming community and CSA members and people who sell at market and things like that, and people who are choosing to live a similar kind of life.
28:48there's a lot of burnout and a lot of turnover. And I think, you know, it's, it's, if we didn't have off farm income, we wouldn't be able to make it. I think people need to remember that. I think it's, it's incredibly rewarding. And, and, and it's wonderful to, you know, both work hard physically, but also learn so much about the land and the soil and, and all of those things. But it is, it's tough. It's definitely, it's definitely tough. And there's
29:14days where one of us is having a meltdown, it's never good when we both have a meltdown on the same day. We try and alternate having a meltdown. Absolutely. With the way our summer went, it was so sad and so frustrating. And I had a couple of days back at the end of July when my husband was at work and I was like, maybe we made a mistake.
29:38Maybe we should have just stayed in the little house in Jordan in town and just had our little backyard garden and called it good because this is really frustrating. Yeah, it's crazy. Like each year, you know, like, like you last year, we had some really heavy rains at the beginning of the season and we had one rain event right after we planted potatoes that just flooded out that entire bed. We pretty much lost 70 to 80% of our potato plantings, which is really big loss for us. Yeah.
30:06For that, it was a drought, extreme critical drought, whatever the worst name they gave for that situation. And so, and I think that's just sort of the reality. Maybe it's always been the reality of farming, but with climate change and with everything that's happening, you sort of have to be on your toes and expect that every year is gonna be a little different and challenging in a different way. Yes, yes. And part of the reason this summer was so hard is because the first two summers we were here, it was...
30:35fantastic. We had the most beautiful, lush, producing or productive garden of the whole time we've been gardening, which is like 20 years now off and on. And so we got spoiled. And then the summer it was like, oh, this is the year of the suck. Okay. We have to not expect it to be amazing every year. But I was expecting it to be amazing. So it was really discouraging.
31:04I took two days to be kind of down about it and really think about it. And I looked around our property and I looked at my gorgeous dog. We would not have a dog if we hadn't moved because she is a barker and she would have barked all the time. And it wouldn't have been fair to her to live where we used to live. So I was like, okay, we have this beautiful three acre place. We have a nice home. We have a great dog and we have the potential for the weather to not be terrible next year.
31:31I think we made the right decision and I was fine. But you will have days where you will be like, Oh my God, did we make a mistake on this, whatever this thing is? Yeah, for sure. Yep. That's just the reality of farming. Mm hmm. Yep. But in the meantime, when it goes really well, it's really good. It's really fun. It's satisfying. It's exciting. It's, it's a character building at, at worst, really. Yeah.
32:01So I just want to say that because I don't like ending my podcast episodes on a downer. Yeah, for sure. You know, I think you asked the question, like, do we sound happy? And we are, but I think, you know, like, happiness can be hard, right? Like part of, you know, part of being happy is to have something that's challenging and that you have to push yourself to do and then to fight through those things and realize that, you know, maybe not everybody would choose this lifestyle. It is really rewarding. It really truly is.
32:31I agree and that's why we're still doing it and it's why you're still doing it. And as a total happy note on the end, I was so excited for you guys that you found a place to be, to not have to move every year because it has to be hard. So congratulations on finding your forever farm. Thank you, you too. All right. Thank you guys for your time. I really appreciate it and you have a great day. Thank you. Yep, you too. Have a good rest of your year. Thanks.
33:01Take care.
 

Brotzler Farms

Today I'm talking with Kayla and Trent at Brotzler Farms.
"We are a sustainable family homestead. We have over 120 free range egg laying chickens, fresh sourdough, herbal remedies, a few goats, and we make pure Wisconsin maple syrup. We believe you should know where your food is coming from! Local!"
If you'd like to support me in growing this podcast, like, share, subscribe or leave a comment. Or just buy me a coffee 
https://buymeacoffee.com/lewismaryes
00:00This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Kayla and Trent at Brotzler Farms, I think is the way I pronounce it. How are you guys? We're good. Thank you for having us. Did I pronounce it right? Yes, you did. Okay, good. All right. So tell me about yourselves and what you do.
00:29Well, we have a tiny little three acre homestead in Osceola. We moved there about three years ago now. And we kind of do a mixture of all sorts of things. We kind of started out with 20 chickens that were handed over to us from the old owners. Trent has been doing maple syrup for a good while now. And then I started into...
00:56herbal remedies and different concoctions that I make, gardening. And now we have, I don't even know how many chickens, over 100 chickens, three goats, and I do sourdough now. So we kind of dabble in a few things. I also was doing microgreens last year and that turned into a pretty decent sized little business that I was doing pretty much all by myself, but I stopped doing that just because it took.
01:24quite a bit of time, but everything else we're still doing. There's nothing prettier than a tray of microgreens, I swear to you. I know. They're so cool. So for the listeners that aren't Midwesterners, Osceola is in Wisconsin, just so everybody knows. Yes, Northwest Wisconsin. Okay. All right. So does Trent have anything he wants to throw into that description? She pretty much covered everything. As far as the maple syrup, I started in 2018 myself.
01:54My grandpa done it many decades ago, but I never, unfortunately, never met him. Um, so I kind of, I guess I picked up a little bit where he left off and I started with one tree, one tap and now I'm over about 150 taps. And we do about 40 gallons of syrup a year. So, and just kind of looking and expanding that every year. So it's going good. Wow. I love maple syrup. I'm not kidding you. We always have some in the fridge because.
02:23I can't do pancakes or waffles without it now. Without real maple syrup. The stuff that is manmade or factory made, forget it. I don't even have it anymore. Yeah, I was just saying that the other day. I'm ashamed to say that I was raised on the store bought stuff and I didn't, at first I didn't like real maple syrup and I started eating it more and I was like, wait a minute, how did I ever eat the fake stuff? That's how I was too. Yeah.
02:50I had no idea that maple syrup that was made from maple tree sap was so yummy. Right. And especially when you look at the medicinal properties of it too, I think that's one of the things that I'm kind of passionate about is looking at the nutritional value and the medicinal aspects of different foods and different plants and herbs and everything. And it's really cool to learn about. Yeah. Two of the things that will never be missing from my pantry is real maple syrup and honey because they both have such great...
03:20medicinal and nutritional qualities that I don't want to be without it. Yeah, absolutely. We've talked about getting honeybees too, so that's probably on the list eventually. Mm-hmm. It's a great thing to have, but I don't know if you've looked into it at all, but it's an expensive hobby. Yeah, my parents did it for many years, and my uncle did it for many years, so we have supplies and stuff to view it. But yeah, you're right. It is a lot of work, so that's kind of why I haven't done it yet. But it's something I'd like to at least try at least once.
03:49Yeah, the reason we haven't tried it is because number one, we don't have all the things yet, and it's expensive to acquire them. But I'm also afraid that we're going to kill the beehives by accident. I would be so sad if we got them and they just died over the winter. Oh yeah. So no, we're not doing bees. We're doing chickens. Chickens and barn cats, those are pretty much the only things we do right now. So yep.
04:16Okay, so I was looking at your Facebook page because I do my homework, and you had a post on there about ghost pipe mushrooms. And I had to go look them up because I thought they were poisonous, but they're not across the board poisonous. They're poisonous in certain ways. So can you tell me about that? Yeah, so ghost pipe, it's actually a flower, but they do generally grow amongst mushrooms.
04:44From what I understand, they kind of work synergistically with the fungus and the different bacteria in the ground. So that's why they grow amongst the mushrooms. But yeah, they're really cool looking flower. I'm sure you've seen them. They're like a translucent white color and they lack chlorophyll, which is why they're that color. And they are medicinal and they're usually used as like a sedative.
05:14for anxiety and pain. And so what I did is I harvested some this year and I tinctured them. You want to tincture them right away, right after you harvest them. So you'll put them in a jar of alcohol and then you let them sit for six to eight weeks and then you strain it and then you have your medicine. And it turns into a really nice like deep purple color. So I've sold...
05:39quite a bit of it already and people have been having really good results as far as sleep, anxiety, pain. I use it myself for just like muscular pain and anxiety, tension, whatever I need it for. Yeah, it's a really really cool plant and I'm glad I discovered it. A friend of mine I figured out has basically the jackpot growing in her five acres that she has so next year I'll be going up there to harvest some more.
06:06Yeah, I assume it grows in Minnesota, but I don't know for sure. I have not seen it in person. Yeah, you know what? It's crazy because I had never seen it either, but now that I know where and how to look for it, I found it everywhere and it's the coolest plant I've ever harvested. It's so cool. It doesn't look real. It looks like a toy that some kid left on the ground. Right, and even like the stalk of it is so, I don't know, it's like a sturdy little
06:35plant, but it's also kind of dainty. But you have to kind of harvest it sustainably too, because in some areas it can be endangered. I don't think it's considered endangered in our area, but you still want to harvest just a little bit from each little plot just so that it can regrow. Yes. And I'm going to do this because anytime we're talking about something that people aren't necessarily sure of, I always say this. If you're going to forage, make sure that you have done your research.
07:05And then if you're not positive, take someone with you who knows what it is that you're looking for and can identify it distinctly. Because I would never want anyone to go hunting for a mushroom or whatever and get the wrong thing and get hurt or die. And when I researched the ghost pipe thing.
07:27It says that you can eat it in small quantities and that it tastes sort of like asparagus. And I love asparagus. So I might have to go find them and try it. Yeah. I actually did eat one because I was like, oh, let's just see what it tastes like. And it did. It kind of did taste like asparagus. And it's, I don't know, it was kind of cool. And then from the herbal remedy books that I have, from what I've learned about it, you can't overdo it as far as the tincture. So I always give instructions when I sell it.
07:56Yeah, you just don't want to do too much. And that's really the same with any tinctures. Too much can be, you know, poisonous to an extent. So you got to be careful with it. Yeah, it's that everything in moderation situation that I keep hearing about every time I talk about things or learn about things. Okay, cool. And then the other thing I saw on your Facebook page was some kind of sprout that tastes like
08:25Oh, watermelon maybe. Oh, I wonder if was it the borage that tastes like cucumbers? Yeah. Yep. So that was the when I was doing microgreens. I did I have like, kind of my staple greens that I would grow like broccoli and radish and cabbage and those kind of things. But I would grow some specialty ones every once in a while and borage was one of them. And if you let them grow to maturity,
08:52I'm sure you've probably seen them before, but they have like a really pretty blue flower to them and they kind of have fuzzy leaves. But as a microgreen, you're just growing it to the true leaf stage and they just have those fuzzy little leaves. And yeah, they're kind of crunchy and they taste like cucumber. Well, I had no idea about that. But what I do know about borage, we grew it. We grew it a couple summers in a row. Those dainty little flowers will change color from year to year. And one year they'll be that lavendery purpley color.
09:21or blue. And then the next year they can be white. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't either. I was like, why is my borage on that, putting out white blooms? This is very strange. Interesting. But the other thing about the blossoms is if you want to get real fancy at a dinner party, you can put those blooms in ice cube trays in the water and they will freeze in ice cubes and it makes really pretty ice cubes. Yeah, that's a good idea. And you can eat the blossoms in salads.
09:50Yeah, for sure. I wanted to dabble in edible flowers, but I just didn't really get that far. But like nasturtium is another one that are edible flowers. If you've ever tried nasturtium, they're very like peppery. I did infused vinegar this year with them. We grow nasturtiums with our tomato plants because supposedly they repel insects, I guess. Oh, sure. Probably because they're peppery. Yeah. And marigolds, of course, grow. We grow those in the tomatoes too.
10:19Our tomato patch is the prettiest tomato patch on the planet every summer. So okay, so how did you guys get into this? What's your history on becoming homesteaders, farmers, whatever you want to call yourself? Man, it's kind of a compilation of things I feel like. I didn't grow up doing any of this stuff. I mean, I grew up on store-bought eggs, fake syrup.
10:47boxed foods, like I didn't grow up canning, gardening. I didn't even have pets growing up. My dad wouldn't even let us have pets. So this is a huge change for me. But Trent, he has much more of a history, a family history with gardening and crops and syrup and I don't know, why don't you talk about it? Trenton Larkin Yeah, I mean, we grew up in that country. So this is just, it's just kind of like normal for me. And I'm so like
11:16having a different lifestyle just doesn't really, I don't know, it doesn't really make, I don't wanna say it makes sense, but to me, just living out in the country, we're on well water, we had our own septic, my parents did the gardening, we had chores, we had to go snap beans, weed the garden, pick rock and all that stuff. So just living in the country, that was just the way of life. So I guess when we got this property, we...
11:45I always kind of wanted to do stuff like that and here we are. So that's kind of my background on that. Okay. And how long have you been doing this? Well, we've been in Nostia La at our property for three years. So we've kind of started back then. But I mean, before that, we lived kind of in a neighborhood northeast of Rochester, Minnesota. And we...
12:12started to dabble a little bit. We had a garden down there and Trent, like you said, what did you tap? Like one tree, one or two trees. And he was super proud of his tiny little jar of syrup, but that's how he practiced, you know. And now, I mean, you should see, I don't know if you've seen any of the pictures of his operation, but it's a whole ordeal. Yeah, he's got like lines running all through our woods to different collection points. He's got a really nice evaporator. I mean, he's got it pretty much dialed in now.
12:42Yes, and Trent, you should be very proud of that first little jar of maple syrup because every win is a win. It doesn't matter how tiny it is. Right. I still have it in our cupboard, so I don't think I'm ever going to open it. It's like the first money you make when you open a business. You have to take a copy of the check or the dollar bill or the $5 bill or whatever and frame it and put it somewhere so you can see it to remind you of the beginning.
13:09Yeah, I know he started out with like this tiny little pot. I don't even, it was tiny. Yeah, I just did it on our stove in our kitchen and yeah, it was a tiny little pot. It just really made just a little bit, just to try. And then a couple of years ago, we drove to almost Green Bay in the Green Bay area to pick up his evaporator from, what was it called? Smokey Lake Maple. We're by Green Bay, yeah. Okay. Cake every win. Every win.
13:38every win just gives you the fortitude to keep moving forward. I think. I think so too, yeah. We've just been learning so much throughout the years and a lot of trial and error. Not everything's gone perfect, obviously, but it's been fun. And we're teaching our kids, you know, we have three kids, ages one, three, and five, and they're still pretty little, but they kind of help with different things and they enjoy all the things that we add. And they like...
14:07planting their seeds in the garden and visiting the goats and helping get the eggs and whatnot. Yeah, it's a wonderful way to raise children. And it gives you guys so many opportunities to spend time with them and bond with them. The connections you are making are forever. Absolutely, yeah. And I enjoy it especially myself just because, like I said, I didn't grow up with a lot of this stuff.
14:36to see them grow up with it. Like, it's just normal, it's awesome. I mean, I go outside and we look at plants and I tell my son, I'm like, that's mullin, that's the mullin plant, if you know what that is. And that's medicine, you know? And so he knows now, he's like, that's medicine. So he's just gonna grow up learning that plants are medicine and whatnot, so. Yeah, I don't think that kids need to associate the coroner pharmacy with medicine. I think associating. Exactly.
15:03plants growing on their property is probably the more, I don't know, not appropriate, but better association. Yeah. I mean, there's a time and place for everything, but definitely like herbal medicine is just, it's very effective if you know how to use it correctly. Absolutely. You were saying you have a bunch of chickens. We got rid of our chickens over a month ago because they were basically slowing down and not earning their keep.
15:31And so my husband was like, we'll just buy eggs over the winter and we'll get new chickens in the spring. I was like, okay. And so we've bought maybe a couple dozen of store bought eggs in the last month. And I hate them. It's the worst. It really is. You can never go back after you've had fresh eggs. Yes. Luckily we just acquired like five or six dozen of actual real chicken eggs from real chickens that people own. And I said,
16:01I said, I'm going to make some egg salad this week because I really want egg salad sandwiches and I don't want store bought eggs to make them like that. I know. Yeah, it's just not the same. It's insane. I know. I sell egg, well, we both sell eggs to our coworkers at work as well. And they always, you know, a lot of them have never had farm fresh eggs they've only bought from the store. And when they eat them for the first time and crack them open, they're like, wow, these are way different than the store.
16:29And they're the same price nowadays, really. Yeah, I was so mad. I made two butternut squash pies on Wednesday, I think, this week, this past week. And I used a whisk, I used a spoon, I stirred it by hand, the filling, and I used store-bought eggs. And when my pies came out of the oven, I was like, that's not right.
16:53And all through my pies, there's little tiny pockets of egg white that's just cooked egg white because it didn't mix in. That's crazy. I wonder if it's just because like what they can sit on the shelf, I think for what, 30 days? Yeah, the farmer has 30 days to move the eggs from farms to store and the store has 30 days to sell. So you could potentially get eggs that are 60 days old, which is not a gross to me. Yep. So I basically after those came out, I...
17:22tried the pie, it's fine. It doesn't taste bad. It's not going to kill anybody. But I said to my husband, I said, I need you to get hold of the lady from the farmer's market who sells eggs every summer and see if she has eggs. And we need to go get some every couple of weeks because this store bought egg thing is going to drive me into a bar. Yeah, I don't blame you. And I don't even drink. So he was like, really? You're going to drink? I was like, I'm, I'm.
17:47thinking real hard about it. If we don't get some real eggs in this house, he just laughed at me. Yeah, I know. So yeah, there's, I never really thought about it because we haven't had store-bought eggs in the house in over five years. So when he was like, we'll just get store-bought eggs. I was like, sure, that's not a problem. It is a problem. It's actually a problem. I didn't know what it is, but it is. So I'm testifying. Get some chicken and get your own eggs because it's way better.
18:16Yeah, definitely. They're not hard to take care of either. No. No, he just didn't want to have to be slipping and sliding to go feed him and water him this winter. He was like, I just had hernia surgery last year at this time. He said, I really don't want to have to be in the hospital over Christmas again. I was like, that would be good. Let's not do that. So there's all kinds of things that really are a benefit when you do it yourself. And... Yep.
18:45Chicken is one of them. And, and if we had room, beef would be one of them. I know. Yeah. Same are, are, I don't know. I don't even want to call it a five year plan, but sometime in the future, after our children are not in daycare and we're paying basically a second mortgage for daycare, we would like to, you know, buy more land and expand eventually, but that's, that's on the horizon at some point. And that's also something that.
19:15We have both never done is raise beef cattle at all. And we've raised meat, birds, meat, chickens. We did that, uh, what, two years ago now. That was pretty cool. Um, but Trent's mom, right? I think she was saying, I mean, they, that's all they grew up on is their own raised beef and raw milk and their own chickens and whatnot. So it's like, that stuff's only been lost over the last one or two generations. It's kind of sad. So there's a big comeback though. It's
19:44it's coming back. Yes. And for the listeners, if you're not in a position to have chickens or cows or steers or animals, just go support people who do have the resources to do that. And then you're supporting your local farmer, grower, and you're getting stuff that's good for you too. Yeah. And there really is a big difference. I mean, I've noticed, and I don't know, I've seen other people say the same thing, but
20:12Even the store bought chicken is just not the same. I don't know what's going on, but I bought some, and maybe I just got spoiled because we raised our own, I don't know, but I bought some and I made it and I was like, I can't even eat this. And our, we did 50 meat birds. We sold a lot of them. We split them up between like, um, Transparents and a bunch of our coworkers and stuff, but we kept about 20 for ourselves and it lasted us probably two years. I mean, that's a lot of chicken.
20:41Especially when our kids eat like mice because they're little. Yeah, just wait mom wait until I like 10 10 12 and 13 you won't be saying that anymore. I promise. I have four who are adults and they ate us out of the house and home for for many many years. So yeah, I'm waiting for that day. It's gonna be interesting time. Mm-hmm. All the reason to grow your own food really. Absolutely
21:09And can I give you a hint on getting them to try new stuff or are they good eaters? Oh, yeah. They're, yeah, it's hit or miss. Okay. The trick I learned with the last kid out of four, I wish I had known this trick at the beginning, is he was very, very curious about our food on our plates by the time he hit 10 months old. And I wasn't going to give him food off our plates that were seasoned because I didn't want to blow his little brain out of his mind.
21:37with new flavors, but by the time he hit about one and a half, he had had mashed bananas, he'd had applesauce, you know, the stuff that you do. And he reached into my plate and grabbed some green beans that had some mildly hot pepper powder on them and some salt. And I looked at my husband because I grabbed the kid's hand before he put it in his mouth. And I said, do you think it's okay? And he was like, yeah, what's the worst? Can you spit it out? And I was like, okay. So he tried it.
22:07And he was chewing it and he had that look on his face like, I have made a mistake. And I grabbed a napkin and I said, it's okay, you can spit it out. And I put the napkin over his face and he spit it out. And from that point on, I was like, food doesn't have to be a battle. And basically, as soon as he really could understand what I was telling him, I said, from now on, try everything. That way you know whether you like it or not. Give it an honest try.
22:33You have to taste it, you have to chew it a couple of times. If you don't like the taste, you don't like the texture, you can spit it into a napkin politely. Or if you're at home, you can walk right over to the garbage can and spit it out. I don't care, but just please try everything. This kid has the most, I don't know, curious palate on earth. And he loves to cook. And we went to a restaurant one time when he was probably 10.
23:03And of course they have the kids menu and the waitress was got to him and she was like, what would you like to eat? And he was like, I would like the stuffed tilapia with the, the whatever, the sides. And she said, are you sure? And looked at me and I didn't say anything. And she looked back at him and she said, she said, are you sure? And he was like, well, yes. He said, I like tilapia and I see what it's made with. And I like all those things. So, so yes, please. I would like that.
23:33And she looked at me again and I said, bring him the food. The worst thing that's gonna happen is we pay for it and you dump it in the trash. Oh my goodness, that's funny. And she brought it to the table and he dug in and she walked away after she put the plates on the table. And she came back maybe 10 minutes later and his fish was gone. Wow. And she was like, did you really like it? And he says, I loved it. He said, I wish I could have more. And she said, I wish I could bring you more.
24:03And before we left, I had my husband take the kids out to the car and I walked over to her and I said, I understand what you were doing. And she said, yes. I said, maybe, maybe don't do that. I said, because if there's a kid who's just for the first time being brave and trying something new, you're going to discourage them. That's not good. Don't discourage them. Right. And she was like, oh, I never thought of that. And I said, yeah.
24:32them explore their horizons with food. It's fine. She's like, she's like, I'm so sorry. She said, the look you gave me was like, stop. And I said, that was exactly the look I gave you. Yeah. I said, but I wasn't going to be rude or anything. But just from now on, if a kid is saying what they want, let them try it. As long as the parents are like, no, you know?
25:00And still kind of the same values and our kids with eating and trying to eat you're trying to create healthy eating habits you know like my oldest son he's five and sometimes his Well, how do you say it? Your eyes are bigger than your stomach And he'll say I want so much of this and whatever and he'll eat it and he'll get sick And sometimes he has to go throw it up and I'm trying to teach him like listen to your body if your body is full
25:28just stuff. It's not a big deal. Like there's going to be more. Or, you know, we teach them this stuff. This is the kind of food that has protein and protein makes you full. And if you eat a bunch of sugar, it's going to make your body think that you're more hungry and then you're going to want to eat more. And, and a really big thing for us and a lot of families nowadays is the dyes. You know, we try to avoid dyes at all costs. And I teach the kids why we avoid dyes.
25:56what they do to their bodies and their little brains. And, you know, my kids are not dumb. They're like, oh, why do they put dyes in kids' food? And I'm like, that's a great question, son. I don't know. And hopefully one day that changes, you know? Yeah. So. Yeah. I don't know. Did you guys grow up with the clean plate club rule? You kind of did, didn't you? Yeah. For us, we didn't have to eat all of our food.
26:26almost bad in a different way where my dad, because he grew up poor, so he was like, well, if you want more, eat more. And so we would overindulge. And so that's why I don't want my kids to overeat. It's such an icky feeling to overeat, like just eat till you're satisfied and that's enough. But I don't want them to go hungry either, you know, trying to teach them the balance.
26:56plate club thing is because my husband was raised that way and he is the biggest eater now because of it and I was really picky when I was growing up and my mom would always say I hope you have a kid just like you someday. I don't have a kid just like me my husband is the kid that's just like me. And so in our house we don't we never had that rule.
27:19There was no, you will sit at the table until everything is off your plate because it just causes so many hard feelings. Yeah, thank you. But anyway, as usual, we get talking about kids and it becomes how to raise kids. Oh yeah, I could talk about that all day. I've done it and I love my kids and it's so much fun. Okay, so we're at 27 minutes. Let's see. Try to keep these to 30. So let's see what I can do. Are you happy? You sound happy with what you're doing.
27:47Yeah, we are. We enjoy everything that we've been doing. It's kind of a struggle at times trying to balance, well, I won't go talking about kids again, but raising kids and trying to do the chores. Trent does most of the chores, honestly, while I'm inside getting dinner ready or bath or whatever. But I honestly have a list for him all the time if he hates it. He's like covering his face. He's like, oh, add that to the list, you know? But I don't know.
28:16you can answer for yourself. I mean, I guess just to build off what she said, I think we're in a good position and we're grateful for what we hang up. I think a lot of people think it's just a natural human like thing to always want more. And I keep telling myself not right now and just kind of live in the moment and take each day as it comes and not try to think about tomorrow. So I think we're good. I know there's stuff gonna come in our future. I think
28:46God has answered a lot of our prayers on where we're at and I feel like eventually we're going to expand and we'll grow on what we have. So yeah, we're happy where we're at right now. Good. And I have two things on that. Number one, being present is the best gift you can give yourself because the moments don't, they don't last. You know, the moment you're in is the moment you're in. Take everything you can out of that and enjoy it. And then the second thing.
29:15You were saying, Kayla, that you're usually in the house doing stuff because Trent's outside doing the other things or he's outside doing the other things. So you can do the things in the house. Everybody has the roles that they play on the farm or on the homestead. And the thing that I've found for us and for the people that I've talked with over the last year or so is that everybody is good at something like really good at the things that they're good at. And so.
29:41the chores and the activities get split up in that way. If Trent's really good at something outside that needs to get done, and I think you're probably a really good mom and the kids need you, it makes sense that you're splitting it that way. So don't feel bad about being in the house if you're doing the thing you're good at, you know? Yeah, yeah, we've been able to divide our chores and tasks up pretty well. And I have to work long shifts at work. I do 24-hour shifts. And so he's...
30:11kind of default parent a lot of the times when I'm not here too, so that can be challenging, but we've been able to split it up pretty well. Yeah, and that's really good for the kids too, because mom shouldn't be the only one they're looking for to help them. Yeah. It used to drive me crazy, because when my kids were younger, my husband had the full-time job and I was the one who was at home with the kids. That's right. And I loved it, but if he was home on the weekend, if they needed something,
30:39He'd be sitting right there in front of them and they'd turn around and say, Hey mom. Oh, I know. I'm like, and if it was something, if it was something right there that I could do, you know, if it wasn't a big deal, no problem. But if I was in the middle of something myself, I would be like, your dad's right there. Ask him. It's like they forgot. The blessing and the curse of being a mother. Yeah. It's like they forgot that he was a fully functioning adult human could help them. Definitely.
31:09It's crazy. It's nuts. All right. So we're at, we're at 31 minutes. We did it. You guys, thank you so much for your time today. This was really fun. Yeah. Thanks for having us. We appreciate it. Have a fantastic day. You too. Thank you. Yep. Bye.