A Tiny Homestead

Appalachian Highlands Farmers Magazine

Today I'm talking with Aaron at Appalachian Highlands Farmers Magazine. You can follow on Facebook as well.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Aaron at Appalachian Highlands Farmers Magazine, and you are where? I'm in Bristol, Virginia. Okay. Welcome, Aaron. Thank you for being here. Thank you. I appreciate being here. So how's the weather there? It is...
00:29study in a little bit chilly.  You're lucky. It is very muggy in Minnesota. That's where I am. This is about as this is the first  couple of days we haven't had rain since I've been here. uh Oh, okay. So are you new to there or  what's up with that? I've been here about two years.  Um, I'm a transplant from Southern California,  um,  and still moved out here just to retire. And then I figured out I can't retire.
00:59So I started getting busy again. Yeah, my husband and I are both in our mid fifties and anytime retirement comes up in conversation, we just do that very sardonic laugh and go, we're never retiring because it's not going to do us any good to retire. Yeah. And it's also not good for your brain to sit off that much, you know? Absolutely. Yeah. My dad retired over 10 years ago. He is now 80.
01:28I think  and He acts like he's 50. He lives like he's 50. You would never know. He was 83 years old. So I'm very proud of  All right, so tell me a little bit about yourself and about your magazine Okay, well I was gonna mention that I'm planning out here from Southern California in the mountains of Southern California About 5,000 so I come from a kind of a rural
01:58not rural really, it's urban forest I guess you could call it, it's a little town called Crestline, California. um I  spent most of my career in  the printing business and when I say print I mean magazines, newspapers, that type of thing. um My education is actually graphic communication, kind dawned into the print business and ended up consulting with authors.
02:25These are the things that I like the San Francisco Chronicle, San Diego New New York Review, and people like that. About, you know, how they used to go out and do their layout design. So, later on in the managing, I my little hometown newspaper at the time. It was called the Alpenhorn Nude. It addressed my town. And I worked there.
02:54for a while and I just wanted to  it. was  definitely going to buy it from after that fence fell through and I moved away to Montana for five years and I came back and it turns out somebody had bought it from the old owner and he was not doing well with it and so I was joking, strictly a joke. I wrote up the contracts for me purchasing it  and was supposed to just be something funny.
03:24And I said, no, I'll buy it for $295.
03:29And that was how much they that's how much money they were in the black for the year.  Uh  huh. So he's he he's didn't even look at it. He just said, you know what, where's this? Where do I  Wow.  Right. And I ended up publishing that newspaper and upgrading the branding on it. It had already been changed to to a new name, which was the  Alpine Mountain here in this case.
03:58It was just a typical little newspaper, a real small town newspaper. Nothing's honestly known, no stories or anything like that. No politics. So then I retired, moved out here, got calls from a son of mine back in California who owns stable farmer's markets, some private farmer's markets. And he said, you know what, I want you to do my marketing for me.
04:26So what I want to do is create a farmer's market newspaper. Okay. And I said, sir, I'll do that. I put one together, you know, a mock up of one and pricing, I'll be distribute distributing that. And when he thought it was going to cost him 20 grams, was looking for alternatives. So I said, well, why don't you do an online news? You know, the money. And so that was the
04:56impetus for creating something called the California, well, it's called the farmer market times. And it's at ca farmers market.com. And it's just mainly just really a marketing tool to promote each farm. But it's best media, news and stuff. And so I thought, you know, I live out here in the middle of the last year where everyone's farming, farming culture.
05:26I was eating on a call. I buy my meat from a place around the corner. It just occurred to me. that's kind of what I do. it turns out, there should be some kind of a really neat thing. I haven't made any money on it. But the whole idea is that once it's mastered, I can duplicate that anywhere in the country if I want to.
05:56All I got to have is somebody that wants to do the reporting or get any storage. Um, and I can create like a franchise out of it. And like I said, I haven't made any money. So, um, I don't know if I ever will, but doesn't matter. move to keep playing from beach. So it just turned out to be this really neat thing and it has a side. I think I'm already well aware.
06:42to have the lecture, gonna be, people are be a little bit cautious about you and I'm well aware. But this is a way, this has turned out to be a really great way of me acclimating to the culture here, which is quite different  and doing it in a very respectful way that respects the culture of this region.  I met a lot of nice people that I probably would have never met before  and
07:11It's on a level that connects with them in a way. Don't think that could have done that. Yeah. you're not into gardening or growing your own meat, then you probably wouldn't have had a connection. Is the lifestyle there slower? Is it, I don't know, more peaceful or is it not? It is. Yes, I think so. Now I come from a little tiny town in California. True. Yeah.
07:41You know, it was not a fast paced place anyway, but there was a lot of community involved there. You know, was just on the map board and this could be the way it is. And to be honest, slowing down a little bit didn't hurt my feelings. So it is a slower paced environment. Your people are not as rushed. They're not as stressed, I think. And also the population out here is considerably older too, in general. So
08:11There's that.  Sure.  OK, so I was looking at your website and you cover  what areas? Well, that's interesting. Bring that up. It started off where I was going to cover from  Johnson City, Tennessee and north up into Virginia to about I was thinking, though. Like.  Damascus, Virginia, so not a big, I mean, that's easy to.
08:40That's a real easy drive. And then somebody informed me  that if I'm going to call it Appalachian Highlands,  then I got to expand my horizons a little bit and go at least from Asheville, North Carolina, up to Whistler, Virginia.  So the reason they said Asheville is because the whole farming market scene, the marine experience here in Virginia,  that all changed.
09:11That area has  what? One, two, it has six farmers markets that I'm aware of  operating in the Asheville area. And they're the ones that started using this going on, but the else has copied it. So  I said, all right, I'll agree to that. m then, you know, West Virginia, some parts of West Virginia also are including in this too. So.  So it's like three states. Yes.
09:40It's actually Tennessee, North Carolina, West Virginia  and Virginia. Okay, so four states.  Okay, cool.  And how do you go about finding your story ideas? Because  I, as a podcaster, I just go find people who post on social media and like I found you and message them and say, hey, can you come talk to me? And people typically say yes if they have time. But is it that easy for you?
10:10It's a little bit more involved for me because I'm physically going to them. em And the way I find them is a number of different ways. But so when we came here, I made friends with my neighbors who own, they're very well known people, the Sleanor family over here and they own a farm. um And they are very present on Facebook.  So when I say young couple, they're, when I say young compared to me, I think they're in there.
10:39probably in their 30s, maybe early 40s.  They are very active on Facebook, so I ran into them there. And then once I got to know them and meet them at their farm, they have a farm that has, where they do a lot of agritourism, know, they have even rides that they created out there. And they look like these and they pull it behind the track into the cubes and have a farm made. Fun! Yeah, super fun.
11:09They have weddings, it's pretty neat. And so once I got to meet them, it turns out they also own the local meat packing plant, which is called Washington County Meat Packing. So now I can buy meat from them that they raised. Well, not necessarily, but most of the time it's that they raise because they also do packing for other farmers. But sure. And then.
11:38They have had a number of charitable events that I've covered. And at those I meet people and then I go to all the farm so that I can go to and then I always meet people there and that is a spin-off. There's always spin-off stories. So a great one is I went to the Johnson City Farmers Market, City, Tennessee, and I'm I'm going to around with every vendor. You know, it's just for a minute, find out what's it doing, how I'm doing it.
12:08all that kind of stuff. I met this artist down there and I wrote about him as a separate story because he was just so interesting. And so I picked up an extra story there or I'll meet another farmer, someone that's about to go out. Someone named Damascus Wazina who's doing this. It's actually the Damascus farmer's work, Sweden, that does topical culture and just all kinds of neat mottling.
12:38science-y things.  then they introduced me to other people and  I just keep aware of events and just mix around there. Last week we had Pepperfest in Bristol, Tennessee. um It's all about
13:06fun, fun, fun, fun. love it. Um,  uh, there's an old saying regarding people and it said something about if you can,  if you can do the thing, do the thing. But if you can't do the thing, teach the thing.  And,  and I feel like what you do and what I do  is we're trying to get the information out about what people are doing to improve their communities or the world or however you want to say it.
13:36And  I love people like you because you aren't necessarily growing a hundred foot by 150 foot farmer market garden to sell stuff out of.  You are promoting the people who are doing that kind of thing. Yeah, that's exactly right.  And it originally started out that it's  kind of interesting really about that. The original intent, I created the farmer market times in California was to promote
14:05to promote to farmers that those farmers want. It turns out that the owner of that, that hired me to do it, doesn't want to do that. And the reason he doesn't, he doesn't want any competitors getting his vendors. So I'm trying real hard to talk him into, wait a minute, is everybody going to be loyal to you? If you promote them, if you don't, then there's no loyalty to you. So it worked out that way.
14:34Here's the thing, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about this area. So farming is a big deal. mean, everybody's either a farmer or, know, a farm to table is a huge thing here too. And I cover that kind of stuff. But I'm also kind of expanding into some more.
14:55I think interesting things that aren't necessarily farm related, they are kind of like,  I give a story about the radio station that was in Exilist  at  the first place of  Country Music Museum in Bristol.  It's a radio station, it's an operating radio station that is playing  all kinds of music, but it's country.
15:26and the city. But he said, here's a living exhibit at the museum.  So they put on shows all the time. So I had an opportunity to cover them. So I'm actually expanding a little bit of what I'm There's a little store in Virginia that has studies  a gallery store for  artists in the region.  all the art that they have displays artists that they can fill that. I'm going to start.
15:55And the good thing about that is that I get to do some focus on those artists at some point. So if I do a big picture story about something like a farmer's market, I'll always find people in there that will give me some side stories. And it's just that now I have people calling me and going, yeah, I need to do a story about this. sure. Awesome. It's like the tagline for my podcast is the podcast.
16:25comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters.  And then I have a hyphen and then I say, and topics adjacent, because  I can only find so many people to talk to until it does become adjacent. I talked to a guy a year ago about green burials because green burials are about kind of protecting and preserving the earth. And as someone who really enjoys my garden, I would like the earth to be doing what it needs to do.
16:55And he was fabulous. He's going to come back and talk to me once we can get our technical difficulties worked out. He was supposed to talk to me the other day and he couldn't get logged into the recording room. So we have to figure that out. But  there are so many things that are adjacent and everything  goes hand in hand. I mean, the radio station. Appalachia  is very  big into music. That's where a lot of our
17:23country music started. and  music is really important to farmers because they play the radio in the barn for the cows.  It's a part of the culture and the culture.  The culture is not one thing. It's a whole bunch of things.  And all of those things play off each other. So that's absolutely correct. Yeah, it's all one big web. It's craziness. Also that particular web, particular radio station does things like
17:53them to local farmers and they do a crop report  stuff too. So it all ties in somehow  and even if doesn't, I don't care if I'm off track sometimes, no one's spamming me.  So  I can get off track if I want to. Sure. It's your thing. Just like this podcast is mine. And if I want to interview a guy who's really nice about green burials, I can do it.
18:21The  other thing that I think that we forget, because  not all of us are older than dirt, is that  radio  and newspapers were the way people used to get their news. That was it.  And so, of course, radio had crop information and  the price of pork bellies or whatever back when.  And  newspapers used to report  news. Yes.
18:50Yeah, it's not crazy these days. It's almost depressing really. Yeah. Well, I do it's depressing. don't think you say almost. It is actually quite depressing. Because even the amount of information that's thrown at people and then you have to sit and parse that to get to the part that's really right and or through or know, speckled with somebody's opinion or whatever, know, used to be this way of doing it to your board. Yeah.
19:18Yeah, the only news I trust is the notification that I get on my phone from the AP website because I still trust the AP. But anything else, I'm like, hmm, let me go check AP before I say anything. That's exactly right. I feel kind of the same way. Or I'll listen to somebody, but then I'm going to have to listen to people. You know what I mean? Or sometimes it may be true.
19:47something that may be true, but it's based on a kernel of truth. It isn't really the whole thing. You you've to get the whole story. You know, so and, you know, I know they still have radio. I listen to it in my car, mostly. But I think that's even gotten a little bit crazy. you know, and people have said for a long time that newspapers were dying. And I would argue that they're not.
20:17they are changing, they need to change. I think people still like to look at a newspaper physically. It's just that sometimes the stories are not relevant to younger people. don't understand any, I'm saying newspaper, so newspaper business has to examine their business models all the time and continually improve and continually update. But I think you'll get younger people
20:46reading these great pieces of material as well.  Oh, sure. Of course. And the other thing is that  I heard a statistic the other day and I'm a big, big word nerd. I love books. I love to read. I'm actually in middle of writing an article right now  for Homestead Living Magazine  and  I freaking love words.  And I heard a terrible statistic the other day that
21:13reading is just not happening anymore with our younger generation.  And I'm
21:21That's okay.  Reading is not something the younger generation is doing now. And it makes me  so incredibly sad. Yeah, it's going to have some consequences at some point, think.  At some point you can only, you know,  dump things down as bad as you out. think I'll say that.  can only  make things simple for so long before the simplicity makes things bright.
21:49I think that's common soon.  Yes,  and I don't  want to get too deep on this, but reading  is one of those things that teaches people critical thinking. And critical thinking is not as  common as it used to be either.  And so  I don't want reading to go away. I raised four kids, they all  love to read. And  one of them has a child.
22:18The other three do not have kids and she loves to read and I hope that that gets passed down from from me to him to her. Yeah, I hope so too. have, I have a bunch of, I have four daughters and um, um, they all love to read, which is great. really happy. Like one of them, the youngest one, when she was a kid, did not want to watch TV or anything like that. She said, give me a book.
22:48and then all what happened is she'd get a book  and like kind of dumb stuff like, know,  these are empire novels. She also likes Shakespeare, things like that, too. But  her problem was she would read a book and then she watched the movie. And she say, that's not how it happened.  And by the way, that guy doesn't look anything like that. You know, mean, stuff like that. oh
23:14She preferred the book because she could put her own imagination in there and make those characters do what she thought they should  or the way they were doing things  he thought it ought to be done.  And the way they looked was the way she imagined it looked. And that's the advantage that reading has because if you have someone telling you a story. And, you know, like on a movie, they tell you what it looks like, they show you what it looks like. um
23:41you don't get the imagination, you don't get the exercise, your imagination as much as you should. You know? I'm happy about the fact that your food reads and my form reads, maybe that's good sign. Maybe there's hope for the world, I also don't want to go too deep on this, but it's relevant to the conversation about how newspapers used to report the news. I was
24:09scrolling through my phone this morning looking for more people to talk to because that's what I do. And I had the news on in the background and our president announced that they caught the person they think shot Charlie Kirk yesterday. And no news, nobody. AP hadn't come out with it, nothing yet. And I looked at the TV and said, what the F? And I actually said the word because our president is not supposed to deliver that kind of news.
24:37That's not his job. And it's for the first time in a long time, something really truly surprised me. I was like, why? Why is he the one telling us? Well, yeah. and again, of course, don't want to get political sauce. I'll keep this in a generics. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. The danger I feel, because it's not the only comment he's made about it.
25:07you know, he's been clear about it. It's feelings about the whole incident and all that kind of stuff. But the problem with that is that when this guy goes to trial, he's going to be able to say, hey, it's from the bat. The president was spreading the word that I did this. that means he's not going to get a fair trial. And that means that could end in a mistrial because or even a strong adopt because he can't get trial because everybody's already forced.
25:35And that's the problem with presidents. And that's why presidents have always traditionally kept quiet about criminal cases. Right. Exactly. Because in this country, we're supposed to have rules and laws and channels of how information gets disseminated.  That's why we call it  news. So, yeah, I was just dumbfounded. I could not  wrap my head around it for about 10 minutes. And then I was like,
26:02It's just another thing that's going on right now that makes no sense. I'm just going to let it go. I were that guy's attorney, I'd already be all over that. I'd be playing in that. Right down the line, that would be my plan, my defense plan. It's like, yeah, you know what? It doesn't matter in the case because he's talking to his friends. So, you know. Yeah. And the other thing that I thought about when that came out and who they've got arrested for is that my youngest son is actually a year older.
26:32than the person they've arrested. And I'm just like, holy crap, what is our world coming to? 22 years old. Yeah, don't, I certainly don't know what motives were at Meanwhile, they, meanwhile, they been putting it out there, there are still plenty of people.
26:59that  are spreading entirely false information about  it. That's just kind of  an additional problem with news. People get news, they think it's news, it's not news. But they get information from people who aren't reliable to give it.  And  then it spirals, it just keeps going.  Yeah, it's a problem. And considering that you are in the  actual magazine world and I am in the podcasting world,
27:29This is very, very relevant to both of us because  no one should die for expressing their opinion in a reasonable manner and  inviting open discourse to  talk about what is going on  and come to some kind of resolution. And I really wanted to say that today because  I didn't even know who Charlie Kirk was until two days ago because it's not on my radar. But I'm not necessarily a fan.
27:57of his opinions, but I am a fan of the fact that it's another person in the world trying to invite conversation to solve things. Right. I'm going to say this all day long, that I'm absolutely a believer in three-states. And I think when that three-states is missed in a way that's, know, insolent or whatever.
28:26The best way to counter that is with rational speech. Speech against speech is the best way to debate, open debate um is the best way to handle things.  Violence tends,  well, in my  observation of history, political violence does nothing except silence, free speech, but it also creates martyrs. And martyrs create
28:56more violence and that's nice to get out of control after a while. So I mean, at some point that just becomes a big problem. becomes, you know, it becomes untenable. You're going to end up with war or something like that. I don't want to go down that road, but you know, you get one guy and it does this and then another guy got to get revenge and another guy's getting revenge. I say, solve it with, with words. Yep.
29:25Absolutely. And  I don't really talk politics on the podcast, but this one kind of shook me a little bit. And as someone who is very, um I don't know, I'm very careful with my privacy as far as I can be, even though I do a podcast, I was like, you know, this is not okay. You can't have people killing people because they're talking with other people  and trying to come to some kind of consensus on opinion. And I don't like it.
29:55So I want to do a strongly that the mental. Uh huh. you believe that the Americans in general do not see this as an approach? Everything's appropriate. I have the least I hope. so too. It's not good. And of course, and of course yesterday was the anniversary of 9 11. And so you had.
30:21Wednesday's crap and then you had all the nostalgia and reminiscing and  and sadness for 9-eleven and I was just like, okay on my podcast the next time I talk on my podcast I'm just gonna tell everybody you gotta live while you're here. You gotta try to do something good and when you're dead, it's suddenly not your problem anymore, but don't leave problems for everybody else. Yeah, I think that's a really good philosophy.  Um,  I don't know.
30:51What was it? Don't remember what that dumb movie was.  With Bill and Bill and Ted's excellent adventure, then they have a little saying at the end of something whenever they said something like be awesome to each other or something like every other. Exactly. Something like that. Like be kind to each other. eh OK, the excellent to each other, I think is what it was. Excellent to exactly. And you know what the thing about the news with Americans, we have a lot in this country to be proud of.
31:20In terms of universally as Americans, we so many things that we can celebrate about being Americans.  honestly think,  we can just learn to treat each other nicely and  celebrate those things that we have in common that aren't American, quintessentially American things. You know what? We'll be just fine.  And everyone will live a happier life that way if we could just all focus on those things.
31:50Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And part of the reason that I love this community that I've built with the podcast is because everybody in this community of home studying and cottage food producing and crafting  and topics adjacent like you  are all really kind and giving and doing something to leave a positive mark on the world. And the more people we have like that, the better it's going to be. I feel like part of that comes from the fact that you're doing something that's tangible and real. Yeah.
32:19You know what mean? Like I think if you spend too much time focused on, you know, you know, we just, you know, I'm one of the  important the computer most of the time because I'm producing something that I think is, that is real.  And, you know, but there's people who are living fantasy life inside their computers and inside their TVs and stuff like that.  They're just immersed in the,  all of the fantasy that's available to them. And I think that's dangerous.
32:48So when you have homesteaders, farmers, people who do podcasts, people who do  magazines, they're creating something.  And uh I think that's, it's not all input, it's some of its output. So that's the beautiful thing about it. I think when someone spends all their time  inputting information from all these different crazy sources, that's damaging to the soul.
33:18things into balancing some public of something good,  know,  poetry writing, farming,  eating vegetables, creating, you know, food and things like that. I think you become a better human being. I think you become a more calm human being doing those things. I don't think that you can give to the world and  not be a good person. It's when you take from the world constantly that it's hard to remain being a good person.
33:47ah I tried to keep these to half an hour, Aaron, and we got a little deeper than I meant to on stuff that isn't really what I wanted to talk about, but I feel like it was really important.  And again, I'm going to stick to it. Everybody try to do something nice at least once a day for somebody or for another living creature,  or I don't know, talk to a plant, tell it it's pretty,  something  nice, and you will be a better person for it. Agreed.  Where can people find you?
34:16So it's real easy, ahfmagazine.com. Okay, awesome. And what are you on Facebook? Anything to ask? Oh, wait a minute. I got to look, hold on. I think it's under Appalachian Islands Farmers Magazine. Yep, sounds right. Are you on Instagram at all?
34:44Uh, have an account, but I haven't populated it much. I've only been doing this for a few months. So I don't really have a chance to get involved in too much more than what I've been doing. So, right. I think I've been doing it. Well, maybe it's longer than I thought. It's a time is time is getting past me here on some of this stuff. Um, yeah. So I don't know if I'm going to end up going that dress. I might. Okay. At some point it becomes a job.
35:14Yeah, and when it becomes a job, it's not a passion anymore. And then you're like, do I really want to do this? Okay, as always, people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com. And Aaron, thank you for going out in the world and finding good stories and promoting good people. I appreciate it. And thank you. Thank you for what you do. I appreciate that as well. All right. Have a great day. You too.
 

Groovy Grazers - Autumn update

Today I'm talking with Morgan at Groovy Grazers for an Autumn update. You can follow on Facebook as well.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters.  I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Morgan at Groovy Grazers in Montana. Good morning, friend. How are you? Good morning, good morning. It's starting to feel like fall here, which is always exciting after a hot summer. So I'm super excited to be here today.  Oh, honey, tell me it's starting to feel like fall.
00:28Our heat is not working and it was 63 degrees in the house Saturday and Sunday. Oh my goodness.  Afternoon. And  our furnace is broken. We found out because we turned it on and it didn't work. So it was rather nippy this past weekend and I actually made granola to heat up the kitchen and blow some warm air to the living room.
00:55and made apple crisp with our own apples. Ooh,  apple crisp is my favorite. We're gluten free, so there's a lot of  fall treats that I miss. And I'm going to try and recreate. I'm going to get a little more adventurous. Last time we talked, we talked about sourdough  and making various things with that. So I'm kind of excited for this fall because I think I can be included in the pumpkin spice treats that we all love.
01:22Yeah, I am not a pumpkin spice fan. I like pumpkin pie and I like pumpkin bread,  but the whole pumpkin spice thing, I'm not into it. I don't know why. I'm not really, I'm not a huge fan of pumpkin spice per se, except for like a few drinks, but like,  I'm not even an eggnog person. I don't know. I'm just not a normal person, I guess, when it comes to like the drinks. I like a Thai latte over pumpkin spice. I mean, any day.
01:51Yeah, I actually freaking love eggnog. So we're kind of opposite on this, but that's fine.  But the important part of my statement regarding the apple crisp is that it was made with our apples from our trees.  Honey gold, our honey gold tree actually produced at least 150 apples this year. Wow. I remember you were excited to see the numbers that it was going to bring and you were slightly worried it was not going to bring a bunch of apples. So that's a
02:20That's a lot of apples, a hundred apples over, you Yeah,  over 150. Wow, that's a good producing tree. And I think that's really important with what we're going to talk about today. Did you buy the home with that tree?  No, they were actually given to us as a housewarming present from an orchard guy that we know. That's even better because  that's first year producing over a hundred. That's big amount. I took a
02:47Master Gardening since we last spoke. I just did the course to kind of like freshen up and learn about Montana because I am not a Montana native. Yeah. And it's really hard when you go, especially here to plant trees. So we've planted two trees now. We planted a Liberty Apple tree and we planted some type of pear and neither took, but we have really bad alkaline soil and I've learned more history about our soil.
03:15And so to even put a tree, think we'd have to do some major soil reworking and pulling out material and putting it back in. Yeah. I've kind of given up slightly on the tree idea for a minute, just until we have a better location. Yeah. And  it's,  it's hard because you never know what's going to grow where until you try it. And,  and just as a caveat, took five years from putting in those apple saplings to get the apples.
03:45Five years, wow. Okay, so I mean, that's still not bad though for a five-year-old tree when you look at production. mean,  the amount of apples that I'm sure you're gonna get to put away, you'll get to make many apple crisps, I'm sure all the way through  the winter. So did you can any of it?  No, we're actually selling some of them to the community at the farmers market.  You've been doing the farmers market.  How's that going?
04:14Um, it's been really good. We live in a fairly small town. think our town has like 6,000 people, maybe 10,000. And so it's hit or miss and it depends on what other festivals or the state fair or the Renaissance festival are going on. If there's other things going on, the farmer's market is slower. But the beginning of the summer is always really good because there's nothing really going on in June and the first part of July.
04:44Yeah, that's kind of the same here. I mean, our seasons are a little different, obviously, but like the beginning of farmer market season, everyone's so excited to get out of the house. And I live not rural Montana, like kind of rural, but not really for now. We are looking at moving  and going more rural. And that's something that we've had to consider is like, what does our profits look like if we move farther away from the town that most people congregate?
05:13I can't speak today. know, common meeting is billings and we live on the outskirts of it. So that's something to like to think about um is the more rural we go, is a farmer market going to be as profitable as it is now?  Yep.  You can always put up a farm stand. Yeah.  I think that's something that we'll definitely do after we sell potentially and move. um We still have to figure out details on that.
05:43But I think it's coming together after hay prices this year. I don't know if you have to buy hay. I don't think you do. don't have any. No. Okay. Well, hay, let me tell you, was $4,000 this year. Yeah. And that's only six months. So I've now been doing this with my husband for about two years. We've talked quite a bit through it. Um, and all the trials and tribulations that we've hit, but, um,
06:12we have learned that our ground is over exhausted, kind like I was talking about. So I met some people that have lived here for a long time and they said this used to be a hay field, which in Montana, once you hit hay, because it's kind of a wheat, they're more of like a, they're not a hay, it's not a hay country out here, it's like wheat country, it's kind of different. So it's grain growing out here. So once you hit hay,
06:39then you're kind of at the exhausted point of your field. And then they put sweet clover in here, which is a cover crop. And it's one of the worst things you can do. It's great for baling it up and feeding it to cow, but it will found her a horse. And that's kind of why we got the goats, right? Was to kind of help clean up the field and try and get it to a better grazing status. And since learning all of this, we've learned that our field is just so exhausted that
07:07to try and do the right thing and not till it up  and replant it and go through all this,  you know, really expensive steps to get grazing. It'll take years. Years, yeah, you're talking years, right? And it's alkaline out here. I learned in Master Gardening, that's kind of why I went, was to learn more about the land so I could treat it better and figure out what nutrition to put back into it. They said alkaline is soil.
07:37you might as well just go buy new soil. You know, you can't put anything in it. There's no fixing it once it's alkalined out. And so that was kind of a bummer to hear because that's what we're on. And our name is Groovy Grazers, right? And there's no grazing at the home. It's one of those things where we're gonna have to feed hay. So it was about, I found good pricing, but it's about 130 a ton.
08:05And that's pretty high.  you know, that's about one round bale and a half typically. ah And that goes quickly. So I found a lot out about our land after moving here. So you talk about trials. Yes. Of just putting things. And we've learned that the whole ground, you've got to just scrap it and start all over. um And so that was pretty  earth breaking, I would say for a farm.
08:32to find out that our cost of hay has doubled. I mean, 8,000 a year, that's  really expensive for  one horse, a miniature pony, who by the way is being bred right now. She's at the stallion's home. you know, less than 20 goats, you've got five full-sized goats and most are dwarfs. So  it's not a huge demand of hay, but it's a lot. um
08:59And so that kind of leads me into like, might be moving. You hit  these- And you are very excited about this.  I am because I want water, right? So let me tell you about rural Montana. You don't have trash. You don't have water in most places.  And it's really not cheap to have water hauled in and there's a lot of fires. So that's why I sound kind of raspy and you'll hear me coughing. We've had a lot of fires and this is year two.
09:28of having a fire right around the corner from our home. And without water, I just don't like that. You know, that makes me feel really uncomfortable because most of the time it's me at home with my son homeschooling and to have to move, as I had mentioned, all those heads of animals by ourselves, it's almost near impossible with how fast these fires can roll in. Makes it hard to sleep at night.
09:55Correct. And if you don't have water and you're hauling in water and you want to be self-sufficient, it kind of is like shooting yourself in the foot for like long-term. And my husband has tried for a while. Now, granted, they only went 250 feet, but you know, that was a few thousand back then. And now to go the full length that we need to go, we've had neighbors that have gotten 30,000 plus dollar quotes for a while.
10:23And then the water's not drinkable because it's alkaline-y. So because the water has such a high alkaline content, even if you did an RO system, it would cost you more to pump the water, clean it out with the RO, than you'd actually get to drink. Yeah, so do you want to stay in Montana? Yeah, so I think the goal is to stay in Montana. And we kind of talked about that, right? So land pricing,  oh my goodness.
10:51I mean, the housing market in general right now is just chaos, right? It's so unstable. So to try and say like, yes, we're going to move was big. Now, granted, we have other like lawsuit things going on in the background with, you know, family and trying to get that sorted out. Part of getting that resolved would be selling because it's the most direct way to get everyone paid out as need be.  then
11:17we know that our land isn't good. So if you would have asked me, were we going to move last time we were on the podcast, I think I even said we're not going anywhere for a long time. Yeah, you were on in May. So yeah. So you're talking just a few months. I've, I've changed my mind because we're paying to live on 20 acres and the eight acres that we can graze isn't even grazeable. So you're talking no water, no grazing.  Um,
11:47and fires. It's not sustainable. No, but how do you decide in a housing market to play your cards and say, I'm going to sell? Well, you just got to do the damn thing. You know, that's my favorite thing to say. Yes. So long-term, we're not going to get 20 acres. Let's be real. We're never going to get 20 acres again for less than a hundred thousand dollars. Like my husband bought. This was before we met. It's just not going to happen. It was in 2019. You're not going to see that again. No, but
12:17Can I find in Montana 10 acres or even more, right? But 10 acres with a home. We live in a tiny home. So it's not even, it's like a tiny home in a pole barn garage with,  you know, there's a six car garage next to it that we kind of spill over living, but we don't even live in a traditional home. So for us an upgrade to get water, which long-term, even if it's from a well, I'm okay. But even ditch rights would be nice.
12:45some actual grazing land. So I only have to buy hay, like, you know, normal people in the winter time, not 24 seven.  And we would have hopefully a better place to do what the Groovy Grazers does, which if you haven't heard us before, do  goat petting zoo parties. And we're adding a horse into it, but this started out as a traveling petting zoo just to educate people about farming. And so,
13:14would we have a better chance of doing that? I think we would. So to play my cards, it's selling because long-term it's not sustainable.  you said.  Absolutely. So let me jump in here.  Everybody who's listening to this episode send good juju, positive thoughts, prayers, whatever that Oregon and her husband and her son find a new place that has  good water,  the land and not near all the wildfires. Yeah.
13:44Yeah, like  in that it sounds like a tall list and it is in Montana because of the fires, but the water and stuff, not so much. So we're looking at  moving more rural, like you're talking about rural, small town, you know, kind of depends on the market. And that's something that our realtors have talked about to us. like, well, if you leave Billings greater area.
14:08Groovy grazers may not be a thing. So that even changes the  whole direction of the farm. are we gonna keep being a petting zoo company that is in the Billings Greater area?  Or are we going to branch out, go a lot rural, like more rural Montana, get more land, because that is the potential. The farther out we go, the more land we can get, but there's nothing out there.  And...
14:37have to change our direction of our farm. That's a really big  why to be at as a farmer, especially with the crisis that's going on right now. So we've been helping out a hay farmer. um His name is David. He's been doing this a long time. He does dry land alfalfa. So we're dry land. That's where our property is considered. So if we were to do anything, it'd have to be a dry land mix.
15:03And he keeps telling us that one, we're crazy for trying to get into farming right now. Two, nobody can afford to do this anymore  on a large scale. You just can't. You can't afford the equipment. You can't afford all the overhead.  You have to be a generational farmer to do this. So most of your listeners are going to be in our shoes. We're probably just trying to start out.
15:28We maybe didn't get a bunch of land inheritance. We didn't get all the tractors and the tools and the fancy stuff. And here I have this big time hay farmer that works hundreds of acres, by the way, hundreds. And he's saying, stay small, stay small. The tractors are cheaper. The equipment is cheaper. Everything is cheaper.  And you have a better buyer. I thought that was crazy.
15:55I'm going to disagree. I think that you need to start small and work your way up. my son lives in Nebraska and he just picked up a really nice pickup truck with all the bells and whistles for think he said 15 or $17,000. And it's a fairly new pickup truck. He picked it up at auction.
16:22So if you're starting out, know, smaller options,  auctions are really good because a lot of people are getting out of this right now. is true.  And the Montana and Montana may be a different climate than a lot of the other states too. This is like David Montana farmer saying Montana is not how it used to be. And the land is over exhausted here. Now it'll make you.
16:50cringe, we spent over 45K on a brand new F-150 STX. that's why, I mean, we couldn't find anything at auctions. Auctions are a huge thing here. Things get scooped up. Now it's cheaper than buying a brand new, but you're not going to find like a truck that cheap. That's maybe Montana isn't the place to be to farm. Sometimes I question that even because of our climate here.
17:20I don't know, honey, but I'm rooting for you.  think we're going to end up where we need to end up. And what's going to happen is going to happen. I've been saying that since we started this, when we first spoke to you, we were a grazing company.  I would have  never thought we were going to be what we are today, a petting zoo company. I would like to be more established in the milk and dairy side of this than we currently are right now. But.
17:49I know that what is paying the bills, the hay bill, um is the goats are going and doing events. And so to hear that in other states you can get old farming equipment and nobody is like jumping on it, that's interesting. You know, I think the climate is going to be different where we look. Now is Montana forever?  I don't know  because  I'll say that I never thought I was going to live north. um
18:16My body does better. I'm 100 % disabled. I'm a veteran. that's how we kind of fund what we do is that my VA income helps keep us self sustainable and kind of off of having to live a nine to five. So we're really like blessed, I guess you could say in that sense, where a lot of farmers or cottage farmers are having to work a job.
18:43to get their field going. We have a friend that they just bought 100 acres of dry land, not far from us actually even.  And she does uh beamer blankets, which is a magnetic blanket that helps heal.  And uh I met her because she was doing treatments on my horse.  Well, we've been going out there helping them doing some barter trade work, welding for uh horse body work,  the beamer blankets. And I've learned quite a bit from them. They came from  Alabama, I believe.
19:13And they've done hay farming, but hay farming, said, is different out here.  And the costs are a little different. You know, some of the pricing they were giving us on 100 acres to reseed was really interesting. Because as you go to buy, I don't think as a first time cottage farmer or even like a farmer, I would think of some of the things that I'm going to ask about now and even spend money on like water testing. That's something that's really big out here. um
19:42is going and having your water tested. So  if there's a well, testing it to make sure that there's not forever chemicals in it that have leaked from all these farmlands.  I didn't know that. I wouldn't have known that 10 years ago when I was first purchasing my homes, but now I do. And so I think it's really interesting as you do this, the more you learn. And I'm on the same page as you. I want to start small.
20:09I want to try and just grab some acreage that really fits what we need as a home base. And then I would love to go and purchase, you know, at a time, 50 acres or a hundred acres of just complete dry land, land that is barren, right? No water, no electricity, nothing on it. Just land that you could potentially graze something on, work later, build on,  have a, excuse me,  my throat really hurts. Just trying to have it be,
20:38better because you don't know what's going to work. We could go buy a farm and the reality is, is that there could be fires or hail. That the roads could be darn near impossible to get through. During winter here, the plows sometimes aren't able to keep up with the rural areas as much as they can, like the city areas. I understand we went through that last winter here in Minnesota. How many times did you guys get snowed in where you couldn't leave?
21:08We were stuck once for a weekend this past winter  and it really wasn't that bad because we're always thinking ahead because we're homesteaders. So we were good. But, but the thing that scares me is our climate has been changing too.  And it's been, it's been warmer in the winters than it really has been in the last 20 years. ah And the thing that scares me is ice storms more than snow.
21:36Yeah, I don't like when it gets warm here and that's something we experienced a lot of. So you talk about climate change. That's also something I've been taking account of  because it's become more dry land, but humid up here, almost like, I don't know, we all joke that this is going to be the next banana belt up here. Yeah. Um, because it's becoming more humid and I left the humidity. left Louisiana and Texas like, but it's more humid here and it's hotter, but then it like switched like,
22:07It was just summer a week ago and now we're in the fall, temperature's already starting. So it's more erratic and that's what worries me with not having water is that if it's drier and it's hotter longer or we have these, we've had awful lightning storms. Like we've never had them before up here. And that's what causes fires typically out here. It's hay, old hay that's been sitting around, which there's a lot of. And then you have the random lightning strikes.
22:37So  the climate change, think is something that's even hard to predict because nobody can predict it at this point. But I've been thinking about that too, because if you have those ice storms where we heat up above freezing, we'll hit like 36.  And then at the night it drops to like, I don't know, but in the teens, well, everything refreezes and that ice is crazy.  Yep.
23:04And that's the kind of stuff I worry about here because if  it does that, my husband has a full-time job  half an hour away and he can work from home. He always has training classes to get to. But  when we hit October, the grocery shopping thing changes for us because  we could be stuck for a week. so.
23:29We are always planning ahead for, okay, we need to make sure that we have enough to be stuck for a week. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I, as we've been preparing to like move and have a realtor come through and start helping us get numbers and even look at whatever all of this is going to shake out and look like we may not sell. never know. Like, you never know. You have to look at the numbers and the reality of it with a lender. Um, I realized.
24:00that I have so much food here. I've never  had two different pantry areas.  My fridge has never been full to the brim  all the time because we live in such a rural area. And we only have one in and one out. That's another reason why I wanna move. If there's a fire, there's literally only one entrance in and one exit here. And it's the same road.  I don't like that. It's really sketchy. um
24:29in the sense of a fire because the fire could jump the road and you can't leave.  Right. So I  plan to always have a bunch of food and we are on a cistern because we haul our water and we try to like have our cistern three fourths full if not almost topped off pretty often. We don't really get below the halfway mark just because what if the water goes bad and that happens here the plant goes out.
24:54You know, the plant will, you'll be on a boiled advisory. Well, I can't boil, I'd have to boil through 2,200 gallons. Yeah. You know, that's, puts you in a different mindset when you start looking at like sustainable living and off the grid and how to prepare for these, you know, these disasters. We always joke that I have a huge tin foil hat.
25:22And my tin foil budget must be astronomical because of how much I wear. But I'm one of those where if you can be as self sustainable as possible and prepared, it's better. So that's why like for us, even looking at housing, it's something we have to consider like, what is the road in and out look like? If you have to haul water, where's the water station? We're really lucky the water station is 11 minutes away from us here. Some people have to drive 45 minutes.
25:51I have a question about that. Do you have to pay for that water?  Yeah. So guess what? Water just went up. So when the city hiked it 11%, we felt it as water haulers.  one full cistern,  think there's only, by the way, because it's one in, one out, there's only one water guy that will deliver to our area.  So that makes it really inconvenient because he like, if his truck goes down.
26:18But he charges way more than what you pay. If you're getting like a tote, which we have a cube, it's something like 375, 350 gallons, I think. um Could be wrong on that. But it used to be eight quarters,  and now it's like 11 or 12.  And  sometimes it's really convenient to haul water because my husband can go to work, because he works a little bit still, get a load of water on the way home.
26:45Other days will go and if there's like the water haul guy who has a 3000 gallon truck and everyone else is there, you know, five cars that could add up to an hour of waiting. Yeah. So it's a lot of time to haul on top of pain. So you can only pay with quarters, which is another inconvenience. Wow. Yeah. And you have to have the truck to haul it. Like we have an old F 250. If our water truck goes down,
27:15we can't haul water. It's really hard to get on the guy's list that hauls water out here too, because he's pretty busy.  you have like a schedule where like, okay, you're only getting water at this time, and he's only going to fill up. So let's say you run your sister and dry, we've had to help out neighbors by giving them a load or two of water to get them through until the water guy gets there. So yeah, there's a lot of like invisible costs involved too. So yes, you do pay for the water, but there's
27:44There's a lot that goes into hauling.  Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot that goes into everything about farming and homesteading. And I'm so glad that you're talking about this.  So,  um, when you were talking about, you're not quite sure how this is going to go and where you're going to land and whether you're still going to be the, the part, the goat party people or something else.  Pivot pivot is a word that's up a lot lately with people I'm talking with in real life.
28:12with people I'm talking with on the podcast. Everyone, it feels like everyone made this jump to this lifestyle five years ago during COVID. And now they're like, okay, so we did the thing, but the thing isn't quite working out the way we thought it would. So what's the next thing? And we're going through it here too, because the last two summers have been  really wet. And last year was rough, last two summers ago.
28:40because it was so wet, had to replant three times  on tomatoes, which is what everybody wants in August. And we didn't have very many. It was not a good year two summers ago.  This year,  we've had tomatoes. We've actually got 13 gallon size ziplocks of cut up tomatoes in our freezer right now to make sauce for us.  And we've sold a bunch of flats of tomatoes. I think we've sold eight so far. And our tomato plants are almost done. Now,
29:09I've talked about this a lot this summer on the podcast. My husband planted over 250 tomato plants. We should have had bins stacked full of tomatoes by now for sale and that did not happen. So my husband and I have a business meeting planned for a Sunday in October once everything's settled from the garden to figure out what we're going to do next year because one year's a fluke.
29:37two years is a hint and three years is a pattern. No, for sure. And that's the hard part, pivoting. It's like,  are you pivoting too soon? Are you pivoting too late? That was something that David, the hay farmer was talking about, because he went from hay to wheat to hay again with cows to no cows and hay now. Yep.  And he talked about that.
30:02pivoting, you've got to just be fluid with it. Like if you get too hung up on one portion of what your farm could be, then you're really kind of putting all of your eggs in one basket. And I know I've talked about on the podcast, all streams of income, any direction. We do milk, we do goat petting parties, and you know, we do selling of the goat babies. And I help broker goats where I call it gokering, but I help broker goats for my friends that have a harder time marketing. um
30:32And that, and that's been the biggest thing is just pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot. Now your tomato plants not producing like that. love that you call it like a business meaning, cause it is being a farm and in any capacity selling some type of produce  is  a business and it should be treated as such because hobbies can become so expensive that they, you know, kind of cost you and you want to do it as a business, a hobby. So that even adds more kind of the.
31:02to the stakes and looking at,  know, okay, what did we plant this year? What didn't work? Where did we plant it? What did we use different this year? Sometimes you can find kind of where the crux is because my husband works at a hydroponics store here in town. So that's what he does all day long is kind of troubleshooting plants  and  what went wrong? Because if you just change one thing sometimes,
31:31it can cause a lot of issues. Yeah, absolutely. And we know, we know for sure that it's been the weather because  last two summers ago, so not, keep saying last year, but we're almost done, almost done with this second year. So two summers ago, it was  really, really  wet until the end of June. And then it was a drought. And so basically everything was wet feet.
32:00Then it was too dry. And so we know it was weather related that year this year  It's been so weird. We've had like three or four days of rain off and on not not yeah But just off and on showers and then it would be hot and dry and sunny for three days You would think that would be perfect. It's not No, because tomatoes end up getting blight in those situations. They do so we know what caused it and
32:27The only way to fix it is to put in raised beds. Well, the money isn't there for raised beds. No,  it's expensive. So  I have ideas and I will tell anybody who wants to go into any kind of business with a spouse, you have got to be patient. You've got  to be able to listen to their ideas. You've got to be able to float yours without being aggressive about it. There's a whole art form.
32:57to being in business with a spouse or a partner. Doesn't even have to be married to the person. It could just be somebody you love very much who you share a bed with. Yeah. It's an art form and it is tricky. And if your spouse happens to be stubborn, it makes it even trickier. Oh, I get it. Yeah. So I have ideas. We have the Heated Greenhouse that I mentioned last podcast in the talk. And I keep
33:25trying to float the idea of microgreens because microgreens are a 10 day turnaround. They sell well. I have friends. Yeah. And my husband is not into this and we've made a little money this summer, but not nearly what we thought we were going to.  Yeah. And I'm not going to lie to you.  Money is getting really, really squeaky. The squeaky wheel is screaming. And so
33:52I'm going to be pushing him on the microgreens because it's fairly  inexpensive to do.  The turnaround is 10 days and people like them for smoothies. So I'm going to try that.  should just do a few trays, just a few, just start with it.  I know people that have turned a huge profit with microgreens. Like we even talked about doing microgreens for a little bit, but
34:18there was a huge rush of people doing it. So there was like 10 micro green people and then a small buildings is big, but it's not big enough for that. So we didn't do it. Now all the companies have kind of died out because they just for whatever reason it's you got to market to the restaurant and you have to carry a commercial.
34:43here that, oh, I don't know if cut out. You're fine. going.  Um, you know, there's certain things here that you have to kind of take into account. I think that they've been smothered out because of the cottage laws that we carry. Yeah. And so that's something we kind of looked at too as microgreens. And then I want to add one in for you to think about fancy mushrooms, blue oysters,  oysters in general,  lion's mane.
35:12All of those you can grow at home. There's bag systems you can do, but people will buy fancy mushrooms. That was something that I haven't, they kind of are starting to pick up on it here, because my husband's job sells the syringes and spores for it. And I'm not talking filo-sibans, nothing like that. I'm talking literally edible gourmet mushrooms. And it's a huge market. I saw somebody make a killing selling them here.
35:41And then I follow in Arizona, a group that is selling them and  she has grown to the point that she has a 18 wheel trailer. You can buy them, they're like turnkey $100,000 plus, but you can have fancy gourmet mushrooms in there. And it's set up with everything you need. So we've kind of looked at microgreens before to get us through the winter time in fancy mushrooms. Because I'm not gonna lie, our winter here,
36:10there is no work to be found. So if you don't have like a typical  W2 job,  you're not working in the wintertime here. It's normally your off time.  Absolutely.  We just, we're going to have to pivot. We're going to have to add some new things in because  the things that we're doing in the summer are not working quite as well as we thought that they would. And that doesn't mean that we won't have a smaller garden next year because my husband loves to garden.
36:39We just won't be planting 250 tomato plants to get, you know, a few tomatoes. Yeah. And that is, that is the hard part is when you put, when you put so much into just one crop and it doesn't produce, but then if you do a bunch of different things, we've been told here that it doesn't all sell. Like only one or two things that you grow are really phenomenal and people will buy that from you.
37:07Yep. So we deal with a lot of Amish and who'd right. So they come and it will be like one Amish community, but they'll have five different booths.  And so they kind of like, I mean, it's great. I'm glad they're there, but they kind of like suffocate out the really small cottage farmer that isn't in a whole community that's growing, you know? Yeah. It over saturates the market. Correct. It's an over saturation and like,
37:36their prices can be half of what you and I can be.  You know? And so  it's hard sometimes even when you're growing the same things that they grow, you almost have to grow something different or unique out here because we're the hub here. So I think even like if we were more rural, what I would grow if I was in your situation would be different than if I was near a hub like we are now.  Oh yeah.
38:02I don't know. It sounds like your apple trees are producing pretty well. You should maybe look at like figuring out how to can up some pie filling or can up apples. have apple sauce. People would probably buy that from you guys too. Yeah. There's not enough apples to make that work this year. Okay. That makes sense. But as long as the blooms don't get blown off the trees next spring, we should be in a good situation to do that. And that is the plan. Cause
38:30I like apples. I don't want to eat applesauce every day, so I would be happy to make applesauce and sell it.  That would be great.  And apple pie filling is really weird. We made some a couple of balls ago out of other people's apples. We didn't have any then. Yeah. We made it the way that my mom made it with cornstarch. And  that is not an acceptable practice anymore.
38:56There is a thing that you put in your apple pie filling that is not cornstarch because apparently the cornstarch goes bad in the canning sitting around in the jars for some reason. I didn't know this. I haven't said anything to my mom because she's going to make it the way she makes it. But yeah, there's some things we have to look into for that. And that's the other thing with this particular lifestyle choice is
39:23Every single state has different regulations about what you can make, where you can make it, how you make it, and whether you can sell it. So don't anybody assume who's listening that it's just make it and sell it. You really do have to check with your Ag Department or your Department of Health or whatever in your state. Well, there's normally like a cottage farmer. So ours is SB 199 and it's the Montana Freedom Food Act. I
39:53where I could probably recite that at this point until my face goes blue because I've had to read it because we've had neighbors that have questioned if we're in compliance.  I mean, and all it takes is just one person questioning if you're in compliance or not.  And you you just got to know. I know that I can have up to 10 milking does uh and that's goats. If they're cows, it's half that, it's five.
40:21ah But you know, I look at other states and it doesn't matter about how many goats you're milking. It's the volume of production that you have. um And that's not, it's not  that strict here. And it's really interesting. We just can't sell things with meat in it. So like even jellies and jams, there's not even  rules on it. And like you said, cornstarch. Your mom did it with cornstarch. Now we've learned that it goes bad.
40:51I'm on Facebook, there's this rogue canning group where they can me and all these things that people say you shouldn't can. And it's crazy to think that some of the things we did even 40 years ago, now, you can't do. uh
41:09That's why I use the word the term acceptable practice because yes, my mom's apple pie filling was fine and still is there's nothing  wrong with it because she knows what the hell she's doing when she makes it correct, but acceptable practices and that's what the states are basically saying are acceptable practices to be able to sell what you make  our ABCD. So.
41:34Yeah, it is really interesting. And that's something too, like if we were to look at moving out of state, I'd have to do all this research on whatever state we're looking at. And I think that's why I've kind of just decided to stay in Montana. I also really just love Montana for Montana. um I'm glad that you do because  honey, I grew up in Maine. I loved that state more than life itself. And then I moved to Minnesota when I was like 22.  I
42:03love Minnesota now and I didn't think I ever would. So I get it. I completely get it. Yeah. You just hit a point where you're like,  ah, I could live here. Now I want to move more up towards the highline  or like the border.  I like the cold.  So I didn't think I was going to like the cold. came from Arizona before. I don't know if I've told you that, but I came from Arizona before I moved here. And so the cold is like something new, but it's
42:32So  I like it, my body likes it. And seeing that's the thing with having chronic illness, everyone's body is so different. ah Do you kind of have to find where your body likes and then also where you can do the things that you like to do. So  if I live out in the cold, I can do  more  farming things. Part of also too the dynamic change with the farmers, like you talked about pivoting.
43:01Because my body is feeling better, I haven't been spending as much time with the goats or doing, I guess you could say, much preparation with them because I'm downsizing since we're moving and cutting back and making the program more cutthroat. But I also got a horse and I don't think, I might have just bought the horse in May when we talked. I can't remember actually when I bought him. I don't know, I don't remember.
43:26Yeah, I don't think we talked about a horse. think I bought him shortly after it was like a hair.  Yeah. Kind of like one of those like, I'm just going to do it type deals. Uh, so I have a horse now too, that I need to get up and writing. And you've been working with him, right? Yeah, I've been working with him quite, quite a bit. He had an injury and now he has ulcers. And so having to learn about husbandry with horses, I've been writing since I was a young child.
43:54But owning a horse is very different than leasing, exercise, riding, doing lessons. uh It's a lot to learn and they're not as hardy as one would think.  No, horses.  I love horses, Morgan. I do. I absolutely think they're beautiful. I think that they are lovely when they're well behaved.
44:20I'm scared to death of them. I get really nervous around them, but I think that they are beautiful. But you're right. They are actually far more fragile than anyone would guess. Yeah, like you can't have dust in their hay. That was something else. So David, the hay farmer that I've kind of brought up, he's kind of taken us under his wing. Andy bailed hay with him and we've just been kind of learning, you know, about hay through David and he was explaining dust and
44:50round bales versus the small square bales and all these different things. And I was just shocked at the level  of high maintenance that you could say a horse was.  Um, and my horse, course, because this is how it works, has to be one of those that just will make a hole for his nose to be in the hay piles and they have huge nostrils and they just suck all that dust up with it.  Oh yeah. then they cough and then you can't
45:19exercise them because then they start coughing and it hurts their lungs and the smoke up here that also like hurts their lungs like there's just so many things that go into horsemanship and the care of them. Now I wouldn't trade it at all like it's a built-in therapy tool especially there's something about veterans and horses that just go really well together so I absolutely adore having him and all the challenges that he's brought with like
45:46His background, I paid a thousand for him. Anyone that knows horses knows that's very cheap. Oh yeah. He was on sale, not for sale. So that should tell you a lot too. I love him to death. He has a great brain. just is, uh he needs a lot of correction, which is fine.  He's coming around well, but I have a miniature pony  and her name is Bugsy. And she's, like I said, she's with the studs. She's being bred.
46:13because eventually we want to do mini pack mules. So  there's like so many different things that we could pivot to. Like you were saying,  we, our motto is not keeping our eggs in one basket with the farm. Cause like you said, if something, one thing doesn't work out that year, I don't want it to make or break our program because we don't.
46:36essentially really have a program if that makes sense. We're not established in any one area to know what actually is going to work or not work because we're just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks at this point.  As are a lot of people right now. You're not alone.  Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. And the economy's changed. Like cows are up  at a market. You know, the market for cows is record breaking right now. Yeah. But trying to get into it is unbelievably expensive.
47:05It is. And that's where Dave, you know, talks about being a generational farmer, that that's really the only way to make it right now. He's not saying that that's only way to do it. He's just saying  the only way to get to have the tractor not broken, the trucks working just fine and the bills paid with what he calls one in the basket, which is one like you should be one crop ahead if you're doing some type of crop like that.
47:32ah And he's like, it's just not possible. This is the first year in a long time that he's been without one crop in the basket, as he would say.  that's a generational farmer. Now, not generational beyond him though. So he's been doing it for a long time, which  people would think generationally, but he has no kids that he's passed this on to. So he is a first generation farmer also, like a lot of us are, but he's just been doing it the long haul way.
48:02And he said like tractors are very expensive. So auction, auction, auction. I agree with you. We should all be looking to find the best deal that we can. Buying new is not sustainable if you want to be a farmer. Yeah. And I  don't quote me because I can't remember, but I think when I interviewed Joel Salatin, he said, if you want to be a rich farmer, start out rich. Yeah. I could be wrong. I heard it somewhere else, but I think that's what he said.
48:29That's like honestly the truth. We are not rich by any means. We are all about sustainable. So when you look us up, like we are definitely your penny pinching farmers. But the biggest thing is, is we're doing the damn thing. We're doing the thing that matters. When farming is falling apart, it's a dying art. Nobody wants to learn it. We're gonna be there to say, actually we do wanna learn it. So give us your information that you wanna share because
48:58They want to share it. Those farmers do. um And learning it, because guess what? AI is not going to replace me. I always say that now. That's my new saying. AI is not going to replace my job.  AI is not going to replace a lot of jobs. It's not. The one thing I am concerned about  is  writers. Yes. AI does a really good job of generating words because what AI is is a large language model.
49:27That's what it is. Correct. Yeah, correct. It's going to kill all the fun jobs, the art jobs, the writer jobs, the like compassionate jobs. That's why I tell people like it's not going to take the jobs that we all think it's going to take like probably some computer programming jobs where the rules are really like black and white. My mom does cobalt coding. That's a whole different language. Like that's it's not taking her job. It's going to take all the fun jobs is what I would say.
49:57Uh huh. Yeah. The rewarding jobs, the rewarding where you have to be, you have to have an imagination. You have to be able to think you like art is off. I hate AI generated images. I won't use them.  They creep me out. And  the thing is the thing I keep hearing from people about AI who are the people, they actually human beings who are sort of self aware. some of them, the experts are saying just
50:26be human. Like if you have a business, be yourself, be human, be vulnerable because a lot of people are  not trusting what they're seeing online. Yeah, that's one of the biggest things I've done throughout Groovy Grazers is I sold the accounting software. I've been in the top 10 % of big companies and sold things. I've just been myself.
50:52And selling yourself is the best thing you can do just be who you are like there are low days that I post about where I just Hate farming and I want to throw the towel and I'm just gonna go live in the city Which I would never do but there are days we hit that point  or I don't know why the heck this isn't working Does anyone else know or like you know just the simple things be who you are?  Everyone can read what?
51:18is written by AI at this point. I've even stopped doing hashtags. I have found that there's more interactions when it's just an authentic, normal looking post, like we all would have done 10 years ago. And then just being who you are. Like they don't want to read that everything's great and fine and dandy. Like everyone right now is experiencing some type of crisis with the economy or their job or their home or
51:47family or whatever has it, like they just want to connect. And I think that's something we're seeing is that people are wanting to gather and connect again, which is really cool because it's going to make things like farmer's market  or, you know, a goat party or something like that, you know, be more fruitful. And I think that that is the biggest thing. Just if you want to be a rich farmer, then you got to start out rich and just be yourself like.
52:14Don't oversell yourself, be who you need to be because your community is going to tell you what they need from you. And that's what I did. I just listened into my community. There was nothing to do really beyond a jump park for kids' parties. And when it was thrown out there, why don't you do kids' parties? I said, well, why the heck not? Let's try it. And then here we are two years later. Yeah. You know how I said that I hear a lot of the word pivot. I hear a lot of why not and a lot of what if.
52:44when I talk to people. Yes. Yeah. that's just the reality of farming. Like, yes, farming is dying in a sense. I think commercial farming,  I don't even like to say that farming  is dying. It's the art of farming is dying. So like the tradition of passing farming down is dying.  And then in another sense, it's growing though, the cottage farmer is coming back and like,
53:11To be honest, cottage farmers during the world wars is what fed the American people. So it's a really noble thing to be a cottage farmer, I feel like in America.  It is, it's a noble calling. And I think that's the part that's important is the calling part.  Because when you are called,  when you feel called to do something,  it means that your heart and your soul and your mind are aligned to work at that thing to make it good.
53:41And I feel like this podcast that I started two years ago is a calling because Morgan, the only time I feel like I take deep breaths is when I'm listening to you guys tell me about your lives. That's how anxious I am about the world. I look so forward to recording podcast episodes because I get to hear really brilliant, giving healthy people tell me their ideas. I can go, okay, all is not lost.
54:11Yeah, I found just getting off the news and just focusing on my community. Like I can't even do anything for the greater state of Montana, but I can do something for Billings, Montana. And that is what I'm doing because I like you.  I loaded,  I loaded missiles for the military in Okinawa, Japan. If you want to talk about a tinfoil hat, I wear one. I don't trust anyone. I don't trust a single government entity. There's I'm, I'm not one way.
54:40I am anti-government is what I tell people when they want to start talking to me and they want to get into this, that. I'm like, no, no, no. I'm anti-government guys. I just don't trust anyone. We need to all be self-sustainable. And so that's the thing. This was a huge calling for me to teach other people to be self-sustainable and to learn from my mistakes because I'm not scared of people laughing at me or making fun of me or saying, you know, I'm an idiot for doing this. I don't care what other people think. It's just that
55:09I feel that cottage farming is a noble thing to do in America. And I honestly raised my right hand to serve for this community, like serve for the US because it was a noble calling. Instead of just going and working up  a like small wage job because I didn't want to go to college and being a bum in my hometown. was like, well, I guess I'm going to go serve for the military. I can, so I should. um And it was just one of those things of why not?
55:39I think my dad, he was a Marine, he told me that. said, well, why don't you do that? I said, well, why not? Like, well, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? And I mean, I ended up in Japan and I ended up being a mama. know, like  life is full of  what ifs and why nots and pivoting and just doing the damn thing.  And if I can do that for my community and just keep being noble in all of the ways that I act, which to me means acting with the most
56:08integrity that you can, then it makes for a better community. And then all these things that we're having anxiety about, they go away, you know? And so for me, it's serving my community. Yours or podcast, mine is serving my community because that's where I get to hear, just like you do, the real stories from people, you know, and what they're going through and their trials and tribulations. then, and then we all feel a little bit more human, I think, when we hear that other people.
56:35are struggling, that we want other people to struggle, but we're like, oh, okay, it's not just us, or oh, okay, we're not the only ones that are having extreme anxiety about this. And I think that's the hardest thing too, is when you're a cottage farmer, it's really easy to become anxious about the world because of the farming that you're doing, you understand how important it is that you're producing food, and other people don't understand it at the level we do.
57:01Yes. And when you're doing it yourself, you also realize how fragile the system actually is. And that's the part that I'm trying to get people aware of. So, All right, Morgan, I usually keep these to half an hour, but I really wanted to talk to you for a long time. So we're almost at an hour. Where can people find you? So you can find us at our domain is www.groovygrazers.com.
57:27You can find us on Facebook. There are two pages. There's one with an empty and one without. Okay.  Um,  and you can also  find us  on Instagram and tick tock. We're kind of all over  the page.  Uh, that you can most interact with us is going to be our website. Please reach out. There's a form. If you just have questions or you just want to talk to us, or if you even have,  um,
57:57You know, I'm running into this with my goats. Have you ran into this before? I think the biggest thing for me is just communities. So please reach out, ask some questions, or if you're doing something cool with a farm,  then just let me know. So.  Awesome. Thank you so much. As always,  people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com.  Morgan, thank you again for your time. I hope you have a great day.
58:23Thank you so much. It was good talking to you. I'm sure I'll talk to you next spring. Have a good one. You too.
 

Family Farm Beef Box

Today I'm talking with Glade at Family Farm Beef Box. You can follow on Facebook as well.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Glade at Family Farm Beef Box in Nebraska. Good morning, Glade. How are you? Well, hello, Mary. I'm doing quite well. Thank you.  How is the weather in Nebraska this morning? You know, we are just starting to feel a little bit of that chill, like it's getting towards fall and...
00:29I'm excited about a couple things  such as harvest  and football and a freeze that's gonna kill all these flies.
00:39Yeah, us too here in Minnesota. was 41 degrees when I looked at 5 a.m. today. So it's definitely winding down on the heat and I'm so glad because it's been a hot, hot summer here in Minnesota. I don't know what Nebraska was like, but Minnesota was kind of not a fun summer.  Yeah,  we were pretty blessed in Nebraska.  It really was fairly nice and fairly,  we got some rains when we needed it.
01:08So I can't complain too much  that much, I sure don't have any problem enjoying fall weather. Yeah. Fall is my favorite season, followed by spring, followed by winter, followed by summer, because I do not love high summer.  I hate it.  So,  okay. Tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do.  My name is Glade Smith.  I'm a husband of  one wife. I'm a father of
01:38seven children.  I am a multi-generational cattle producer  and I am a  leading marketer of breeding stock for right livestock and the owner and  founder of Family Farm Beef Box. Okay, awesome. How many generations back on  the cattle?  So my my grand, it'd be my grandfather three generations ago.
02:06He moved to  this area just down the road from where I'm sitting. uh He was born in 1896 and moved to this area.  It seems interesting to be able to say he moved here with wagons pulled by mules  over to where our general area. My wife's family, uh her roots go a little bit deeper. She'd be the ninth generation farming on the same general.
02:34close to the same area where she's from. I've got a ways to go to keep up with my wife. Okay. Tell me about the beef box. Very good. No problem. Yeah. A family farm beef box is a conveniently sized share of an entire beef. It's been dry aged and hand cut and raised right here in central Nebraska. Think of it as just a smaller version of a half a beef. It works well for, for say a couple that
03:01used to buy a half a beef, but now their kids are grown and they just don't need that much anymore. So you get a nice sampling  of some steaks and ground beef  and roast, but still the dry age quality that you grew to love when you purchased a half a beef. And we do ship that beef across the country  every Monday and work with those customers as far  as allowing them to subscribe  and get a  box every one, two or three months,  or we let them try just a single box.
03:31And we do offer a little options as far as a smaller package or a more bulk option.  So  that's  what we  strive for with our little beef business  and try to focus on getting to know the people that we're actually sending the beef to. That's  something that's important to us is trying to build relationships with these people. And a cute little story that  from when I started Family Farm Beef Box,
04:00It's been about eight years ago now.  And honestly, goodness, what  spurred it was  I'd been  farming and ranching  and  we'd grown enough to be able to grow the balance sheet, to be able to borrow some more money, to grow the business, to borrow some more money.  I got  to be fortunate enough that I had quite a bit of money borrowed  and several bad things happened in the farming world.  And I couldn't pay the bank back and I was underwater and the bank told me.
04:27I say I was fortunate enough because it forced me to grow and learn and be creative in other ways. The bank told me that all the money I made was going to go towards debt.  And so what I did was I told my banker, said, well, I know what better beef tastes like.  And I know how to make friends with people in real life. And if I could use this social media thing to figure out how to make friends with other people.
04:56I could share some beef with them and if I could get a price that was similar to an ice grocery store, I'd be able to make a little money.  And so that was, that was my whole plan.  And I went from there and I,  didn't even use  social media. I had no use for it, but my wife did. And I knew there was other people on it who used it a lot. And so I thought, well, that's where the people is location, location, location. That's, that's the location that matters now. And so.
05:26I got online with my wife's social media, her Facebook account, and she let me send out a survey to her thousand friends, which was pretty well received. I got a pretty good sampling. I asked questions like, you could buy source food from a farm for a price that was competitive with the grocery store, would you be interested? Well, shucks, 97 some percent of the people said yes. I also asked questions such as...
05:55based on your monthly food budget, how  much could you pay for a bulk food purchase?  And at the time, eight years ago,  was 7 % of respondents said they could afford $600 or more. Now, of course, beef prices have gone up a lot, but even back then, $600 was barely, not even really a quarter beef. Right. And so that meant that there was some people out there that could do it, but not very many.  that's especially at the time,
06:24That's the way anybody selling freezer beef, that's how you did it. You buy half a beef, a whole beef, or quarter beef. That was  just kind of the way you did it, and it still kind of is now.
06:36But if I drop that number down to two to 300 bucks, I think the response is close to 70 % could afford two to 300 bucks for a bulk food purchase. I thought, aha, well, I got to figure out how to divide this beef up small enough that people could afford a share, but it didn't cost more than two or 300 bucks. So that's what we did. And we called it a family farm beef box. And where I live right here in central Nebraska,
07:03Custer County, there's literally 30 times more cattle than people. the whole buy local thing does not work very well for the guys raised in beef in my County.  Um, but I knew if I go from where I live to Omaha, Nebraska, and I drive down the interstate, there's a million people in Nebraska from here to Omaha. Sure. And I could, I could meet people along the way and offer this, offer them this beef box. And so, so there I was.
07:32Underwater with the bank no money left my wife reached into her sock drawer and she at the time she made little baby blankets and baby bow ties and had some little sewing things that she made and sold  She she saved money that she made from those  those little sales and she had a thousand dollars. Mm-hmm. And that was our last money and She loaned me her thousand dollars so I could butcher a beef  and I got on this Facebook thing
08:01And I had a buddy help me design a website and  I built the website and he helped me make the logo.  And, uh, and I got on there and I tried to make friends with people and, I made my first Facebook post and it was a picture of my wife pulling a couple, like my little kids in a wagon. And I don't remember exactly what it said, but something cute along the lines of, who wants to go for a ride? You know,  we're going to be  running through, you know, like some beef, da da da.
08:31real generic and my buddy that was helping me who was a, you know, some sort of business web guru fella from Lexington, Kentucky. He told me, he said, you can't post that. I said, why not? He said, well, that doesn't even look like an ad. I thought, brilliant. It doesn't look like an ad. I said, man, I ignore ads. Be honest, you ignore ads too. And so that...
09:00From that moment, that became my marketing strategy was to create content that was  cute enough or engaging enough that people actually wanted to look at it. So I didn't have to pay them to try to convince them to look at an advertisement, which none of us want to do.  I can't compete with Omaha Stakes. They might spend millions of dollars a year on advertising.  I don't have any money.  So I got to create something that people want to look at.
09:28So that's what I did. so  we butchered that beef. I spent my wife's money.  And I thought, you know, what could happen is I might have to drive to Omaha, 250 miles one way from my house, and deliver one of these boxes of beef.  Okay, well, let's go for it. Worst case scenario, I sell one box. I have a sister who lives in Omaha. I'll go visit my sister, say hi.
09:56deliver the one box and then we eat the beef.  And that would be the end of my beef business. ah But that's not how it went.  No, it turned out I sold that whole beef that first try  and I went and I got it delivered. And once you know it, the very first order I ever got on our new website was Mrs. Conkey from Omaha, Nebraska.
10:24today, eight years later, Mrs. Conkey still buys beef from me. Awesome. And some of those people, those first couple weeks and months, there's multiple of them that still are with me today, eight years later. And so that's the model that I went with. I call it relationship-based marketing. Let's get to know people and then let's serve them.
10:49you let's do a good job. They've got a need. Let's, let's offer to serve them that need. People like to eat. People like to eat good food. Hey, I know how do that. You know, let's get together. So that, that was our, our start of family farm beef box and kind of,  and, what we, what we offer. then COVID happened. I had dabbled just a little bit with shipping beef prior to COVID.  actually,
11:16had a guy from a British guy who lived in South Carolina.  And we ended up talking on the phone because we  just connect with people and stuff. And he was asking about this beef. I remember him saying, um you've been telling me all about this beef here and I've got to try some of this. You've got to figure out a way to send it to me. I said, I don't know. You're in South Carolina.  It's July.  But  I knew people did it.  I knew Omaha Steaks did it.
11:46But at the time it wasn't a thing. There's different places that do it now, but this is before HelloFresh and ButcherBox and you know, like, and maybe ButcherBox was just getting rolling, you know?  But people didn't ship food. They didn't ship beef. And so I got online, how do you ship frozen beef? And I'm not kidding. It was like the one thing on Google that you couldn't find out how to do. oh UPS and FedEx was the only thing that would come up and I searched a lot and it was, you know,
12:14Well, you do this, some cooler packs, a styrofoam cooler, and then you next day air it or two day air it. of course, UPS tells you to next day air it because if you put $300 worth of beef in the box, then they want $350 just to ship it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I would tell you to do that too if I was owning the shipping company. But I just knew Omaha Steaks didn't pay that much. And so I...
12:37you know, what do use for packaging? And I started hunting around. I was looking at Omaha Steaks website and there's this picture of beef and in the background there was this cooler. I was looking at this company that made these coolers and I'm looking at their cooler and I go, uh-huh, huh? And I called up the company. said, do you make coolers from all steaks?  I said, yes, we do.  I said, want some.  Turned out there wasn't anything special about them.
13:06And, uh, and I told that boy in South Carolina, I said, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to send you this beef and if it's good, when it lands, you send me a check. I had no idea if it'd be good or not. Yeah. And so I sent it to him five days to South Carolina in July. And I thought, well, I don't think it's going to work, but if it works, I can ship beef anywhere. Yep. It doesn't get worse than that.
13:35five days in July to South Carolina. And it worked. And it was still good. And the guy sent me a check and he bought several more beef boxes over the years. uh And so  I had started dabbling with that a little bit and then COVID happened and nobody wanted to go anywhere. so the whole,  I had drop sites, I'd meet people and hand them out, but I was like, well, that's kind of off the table now. And so I just went to shipping everything  and uh it turned out it took.
14:03It took away a little bit of the enjoyment of shaking people's hands and visiting and everything, but it also made it, I was taking two trips a month to go deliver this beef  and,  but it also limited me to Nebraska. Well, now I ship beef all over the country every Monday.  And, um, and so that, that was a little bit of a game changer as well. Yeah. That leads me to another question.  What kind of regulations are you?
14:30having to deal with to ship your beef.  So there's a couple uh steps. um The main regulation falls on the butcher shop,  not the farmer.  so we do use a USDA inspected butcher shop. And then once it comes  from leaves the butcher shop to my place, it's all wrapped. I mean, I'm not cooking it. So
14:59I do have a license from the state of Nebraska and I  put it on my wall  and it's not very complicated. If I remember right, it's called an itinerant food vendors license. uh I believe that's the name and  whichever state you're in, it might be a little different,  but they came out. They're supposed to come out once year. I don't think they even come out every year, but they come out on occasion  and they look at my freezers and
15:29I mean, it's, it's,  I tell people come over to my, my place and prepare to be underwhelmed. You know, it's, it's not fancy,  but, uh, you know, it's, fine. And so we were approved. then once,  once in my history,  somebody from the federal USDA showed up a year ago, I think something like that. And, and I, it's not something that I asked for. He just saw me online and was.
15:59If you're  kind of bio food terrorism, I don't know, but they,  they came out and turned out I'm supposed to be signed up with the federal government. I mean, there was no penalty for not being like, just said, well, here, let's fill out this form.  And I told them kind of what I did and stuff like that. asked a few questions and there wasn't even any cost to it. but they, so I have, I'm, I'm FDA  approved on some level.
16:27you know, for, what we're doing.  So it wasn't a whole lot of, um, bells and whistles and hoops to jump through. Good. No, no, no. If you want to have a butcher shop, that's a different story. If you want to cut the meat, that's a different story.  Uh, if you want to take the meat from the, from the processing plant that has,  um, their ducks in a row, you know, then you're talking about following qualifications. Like you don't have.
16:56chemicals  and stuff where you're storing the beef  and  like, okay,  that's all right.  And uh they wanted a thermometer in all the freezers, which wasn't something that I necessarily had. Yeah. But they're like, yeah, get a thermometer to make sure it's frozen. like, well, look in there, there's ice, you know,  okay.  But
17:21You know, it's, it's, was, that was something they wanted, but yeah, nothing, nothing at all crazy. You know, didn't have to go build on stainless steel cupboards or anything  to qualify.  Awesome. I'm so glad that it was a fairly easy, simple  solution for you because  there's a lot of states where it's not an easy, simple solution a lot of the time.  I did, I did have my ducks in a row to begin with. When I started, I called
17:51the state office, and this is an interesting little story. I hadn't thought about this in a while. Eight years ago, I called the state office and I told them exactly what I wanted to do. And I talked to the enforcer fellow for the state health and wellness department, whatever they were called, health department, the guy I would get in trouble with if I violated something. Like this would be the guy that would get me in trouble. This is what I want to do. So I made it very clear.
18:21what the plan was, I want to take a beef, I'm going to pay for the processing, I'm going to bring it home, I'm going to divide it up, I'm going to send it out in boxes. And I think I told him, like, I didn't know how to ship then, but you know, I asked, know, could we could have the potential to ship across the country, you know, just because like, well, it's a possibility. And so he went through everything we were doing. And he told me, you know, need to follow this guideline.
18:52Uh, as long as it's packed there,  um, you know, it's, it's okay if you do this, it's okay if you do that. It's okay if you do this. Okay. Very good. And I was golden.  And  I think for the most part, the way somebody gets in trouble with any of these regulations  is  if you make somebody upset  and they turn you in. so I had, there's actually a friend of mine who also sold beef.
19:21who has come and gone since then, ah who was upset at me because I was selling beef.
19:29And  I talked to him, I'm like, man, look how many people are in the world. Like you and I don't have enough beef for everybody. We're on the same team. We're not competing against each other.  There's way more beef eaters than we have beef.  But he didn't see it that way, which can happen. And so he was upset that I was also selling beef down the road from him. And so he turned me in.  so,  but I'd already had my ducks in a row. And so the people that I would have gotten in trouble with,
20:00already knew those guys. And so I had a conversation with them. They talked to me. They literally asked me, Glade, are you doing anything different than what we talked about? No, this is the plan. That's exactly what I'm doing. I told him, you know, that person, he lives down the road from me. He also sells beef. And you know what they told me? And he's mad, yes. Yeah, I said, you know what they told me? They said, well,
20:30I'm sorry you have neighbors like that. You won't be hearing from us again. Nice. But that only happened because  I made an effort to be transparent and talk to the people I needed to talk to and knew  what rules I had to abide by. And I was willing to do that.  Okay, cool. um So I have other questions and we've been talking for probably a little over 15 minutes. So  we have 15 minutes left.
21:00When you're talking about your cattle, I don't want to know exactly how many cattle you have, but do you have a big herd or a small herd? Well, can tell you.  part of our  thought process of We Are Family Farm Beef Box  is  we wanted to make  beef available every week. And to do that with a cow herd  is pretty daunting task because usually you have one or two harvest per year. Right.
21:29And so I knew from the get go, uh this wasn't going to work if I was going to do it on my own. I was going to have to have some help. And so I network with some basically some neighbors to be able to supply the butcher shop to keep  our goal is basically a thousand pounds a week, approximately is our, is our goal, which is basically two steers. So we're not a huge deal. ah You know, a hundred, a hundred ish.
21:58head of cattle per year is kind of where we're at currently. Okay. And so that's, uh, now I've got about a hundred head of cows, but they, they, dynamics don't work to be able to, to have them ready to harvest every other way, you every week.  yeah. Yeah. And I'm assuming if you're just doing one or two at a time, it's more expensive than, than the big culling at the time of year when most people do it. uh
22:27As far as processing charges or... Yeah. The processing charges are stable. Okay. As far as that goes. Yeah. So, know, in our little butcher shop, I think they'd be a normal size butcher shop. So they handle 15 to 20 head of cattle per week. So if we're at two, you know, we're a chunk of what they do. You know, they're a small business too. You know. Yeah, absolutely.
22:57The one thing that I can vouch for or attest to here is if you find a good butcher shop,  support them because butchering is an art form. There are so many butcher shops that  are not as good as other butcher shops. That's the nicest way I can put it. If you find one that you like, stick with them and support them.  And  it's hard work  and  nobody gets rich being a butcher.  No.
23:27I've been approached before like you should start your own, you should start your own butcher shop. You know, right now I,  so I'm paying this year in the neighborhood of a hundred thousand dollars a year for butchering fees  for processing. And so if we would grow a little bit,  three or four head, you know, kind of trend the way we have been. Sure. Could, could at some point, could I look at running a butcher shop? Oh, if I wanted to,  you got to really.
23:57want to cut stakes. know, that's it's a lot of work. And then, know, and then you have headaches of trying to keep help. And, and it just you got to love butchering is what it amounts to. And it's, it's really hard on your body too. I mean, just the, the knife work alone, your hands would hurt so much, you know? Yup. Yeah. I, I, I said, I don't particularly want to cut stakes.
24:26You know, I'm happy to pay these guys $100,000 a year to cut my stakes and they do a good job.  Absolutely.  So,  um,  is, so do you, do you breed your cattle? Do you have baby cows on the ground? Yeah, we have, uh, we, we have a couple different times,  but, uh, we'll, we'll have some calves dropping here pretty soon. What they  is typically considered a fall calving herd.  So.
25:01You know, as, for the most part, I've looked at family farm beef box, really, uh, you know, I started it as a way to buy groceries. Sure. And then I took what I learned over a couple of few years and, and you have to just have a lot of ambition and desire. And if your kids are hungry, that gives you ambition and desire. So I, I learned, I had, forced to learn things and how to, how to market the beef and how to get things sold. And basically I took that knowledge and.
25:31And then  rolled it into,  I work for  a fella now that I market breeding stock of cattle. So we specialize in mama cows basically. And so I took that first year of business without any budget. You know, I guess I think it's an inspirational story for somebody just starting out. If you're hungry enough, this is what you can do.  We hit right at 200,000 hours worth of sales that first year.
26:00Wow, okay is what we did  Which isn't doesn't doesn't make you a millionaire that was gross sales of all that beef and you know  Ten percent of that is 20 grand, you know, so if you've got some kids  You know, we I  I scratched around underneath the poverty level for quite a while You know trying to farm and do things and I'm not against that and I and I was I really enjoyed that time of life honestly uh As we learned and we built
26:29Um, and we struggled and we didn't have any money and I never took a food stamp. You know, we just, we just did without, uh, I like to tell the story. One year it was  my, daughter's birthday. She was five or so six and I didn't have any money. so,  just cause you don't have money doesn't mean you can't do things. It means you have to be more creative. I did have some old boards and if I drove down the road, just a few miles, there's a gravel pit where they work on roads and everything and they'll give you sand for free.
26:58And so I built her a sandbox, which was a pretty good gift. It didn't cost me anything,  but it had to be more creative.  so that really  helped develop our family life and structure and being grateful for things, which I think is so important. We're not grateful for things in this country.  Everything is expected and anticipated and I got to have it now and I deserve it now.  Well, we went through that and then I took that and we sell.
27:26you know, 10 or 15 or more million dollars worth of breeding stock with right livestock across the country from, send cows up to your country, up to Minnesota and Michigan, and we deal in semi loads of cows. And so that's, that's my, that's what pays the bills now is cattle marketing. And so then I could start doing family farm beef box just, just for fun, because I like it. good. And then as I've found is you can, if you can do things,
27:54run a business for fun and you don't have to have the money. know, boy, the story is about trying to, because I would have to coordinate with buddies that had cattle that were ready to slaughter to be able to get my next beef ready. You know, I would, I'd have a hundred bucks in my bank account and I would send two beef to the butcher shop. At one point I'd been going a little while there. sent four beef to the butcher shop. And so
28:20And the way  they had it worked out at the butcher shop is when you picked up the beef, they  would  collect the money that actually went to my buddy, the farmer,  and you paid for the processing all at the same time. You couldn't pick up your beef until you paid for the beef and the processing. that way, had, you know, the guy who had the beef was my buddy,  he got paid before I got the beef. Yes. And so  I would pick up that beef  and that for beef was like $12,000.
28:50$14,000. can't remember right now. $14,000. I got a hundred bucks in my bank account, but I pick it up on a Friday and I write the check every, every time I did it every other week. I'd write a check. got a hundred bucks in my bank account, but I had two weeks, you know, that, that beef hangs in that cooler for two weeks. I know I got to pick it up. I got to get it sold. And so I got to find customers. You can't just put up a sign and wait. You've got to find customers. I got to go get it delivered. So I would pick it up on Friday.
29:20bring it home, pack it up the next morning.  I would go to Omaha on Saturday. I'd get it sold. I'm hustling on the way down because people wouldn't show up. And I'm making phone calls trying to like find what can I do with these two people didn't show up. That's that's $400. It's $500. Okay,  I got it. I got to sell those ones. And so then I get back on a Monday morning, I go back to the bank and I deposit money. And I deposit $12,600.
29:47I needed $12,500 and I covered the check. never bounced a check. But then I got $100 in the bank account. haven't bought any groceries yet. I still got $400 worth of beef in the freezer. So got to hurry up and sell that beef because you can't pay your light bill with beef. I got to sell that beef so I can pay the light bill and buy a few groceries. I get the beef sold. There's four or 500 bucks. So I buy some groceries and I pay the light bill.
30:15and I got $100 again, I gotta go pick up more beef. So we did that for a couple of years. uh that was just, it was a fun and exhausting period of life. That is defined as hustle, Glade. That is some hustle, man. Yeah, and I was telling that story to somebody the other day and  the kid said, well, that's just like what  you did, wasn't it, Mom? And said, well, no, we would have never wrote a check that we couldn't cover.
30:43Like we survived being poor  and we were grateful and we were happy, but I never would have wrote a check that I couldn't cover. I said, and I'm looking back, said, yeah, I can't say that I would advise it,  but  you know, there's a lot of prayer involved. There's no way this could have happened if  God hadn't have blessed what we were trying to do. I just, I'm not that good.  Every  week  I would be within a few dozen dollars. Like you kidding me?
31:13I didn't, I'm not that talented. I can't find the exact number of customers  to get that covered. ah Exactly. I'm not oversell.  I mean, I didn't oversell and I didn't undersell. It wasn't like I had 20 boxes of beef that I could sell and I didn't get 50 orders. I wish I did, but  I get 20 orders. Yep. And so that's what we did.  This is why I  love my podcast so much, Glade.
31:42stories like that because you were busting your ever-loving ass to make this happen  and you still love it and you are helping people. So I have one last question.  I looked at your website and your beef is definitely reasonably priced. I'm going to actually talk to my husband about the next time we want to get some.  We might have to order some from you,  but uh what's the shipping cost like? Like if we were going to do that every other month.
32:10subscription. 10-15 bucks or something. Most of the shipping costs is padded into that price. Okay. There's, depending on where you're at,  it'll add 5, 10, 15 bucks,  something like that.  It's pretty close to that price.  Oh, okay. That's fabulous. Great. Good to know.  And where can people find you? Tell me your website. Familyfarmbeefbox.com. Okay. Fantastic.
32:36Thank you so much for your time.  always, people can find me at atinihomesteadpodcast.com.  Glade, I hope you have a wonderful day. Thank you so much. Well, thank you kindly. All right. Bye.
 

Bad Baxter Farm

Today I'm talking with Blaze at Bad Baxter Farm. You can follow on Facebook as well.
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters.  I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Blaise at Bad Baxter Farm in Oklahoma. Good morning, Blaise. How are you? Good morning. I'm great. How are you? I'm good. How's the weather in Oklahoma this morning?  It's cooling off. So I think I'm the only one that's  not happy about it, to be honest.
00:26I am so thrilled that it is cooling down in Minnesota this week. I cannot tell you, I am giddy. I'm going to make sourdough bread on Wednesday or Thursday because the  high is only supposed to be like 62.  And  I heard on one of your other podcasts that you have a mass amount of tomatoes to process. um Well,  we thought we did until the blight decided that it was going to arrive and  stop the plant.
00:56We still have tomatoes coming in, but we are not going to have as many as we really thought we were.  just pray for me the next summer is better because last year sucked. This year has been half better than that. So maybe next year it'll be good again. Yeah, I'm harvesting or I'm actually processing some enchilada sauce this morning. And I think we're pulling ours early just because of the cool down and they've kind of slowed.
01:22slowed their roll a bit, but my husband was talking about it. We felt like we grew plenty this year and I just don't think you can ever grow enough tomatoes.  We grew over 250 plants. We should be literally stacking crates of tomatoes right now and that is not happening. And I have  so many bad words in my head about it, but I will not utter any of them on the podcast because they don't do that. So I am very disappointed. I'm very sad about the whole thing, but it'll be fine.
01:51We have probably five or six gallon size ziplocks of  frozen cut up tomatoes to can  in October when it's actually cold out so we can open the windows. Yeah.  So we will have some pasta sauce this winter, but we definitely haven't been able to provide for our community the way we're hoping to.  Yeah. So I could go on and on. I don't want to, or I will just cry.  I might anyway.  It's always a learning experience.
02:22Yeah,  it's been rough.  I  didn't realize how sad I am about it. Wow.  Okay, so here we go again.  Mary cries on the podcast again.  I'm sorry, I brought up your tomatoes. It's okay. The ones we got were beautiful and they taste great. So at least we have some that is the upside this year.  So I have two questions about your name and the name of your place.  Is Blaze a nickname?
02:52Um, it's been my lifelong nickname. actually, uh,  when I lived in California way back in the day, I was a hair salon owner and that was the color of my hair color. So when I was in beauty college, everybody started calling me plays. Okay. it's back.  All right.  And then why is it bad Baxter farm? Oh my gosh. I have so many different feelings about our farm name, but, um,  when we moved to Oklahoma, I just.
03:20I thought, I guess I really regret using the word farm to be honest, now that I know more,  know what I know. But,  um, at the time we had  decided to move from California to Oklahoma. Part of it was health related and,  um, I first.
03:37I got certified as a nutrition coach through the National Academy of Sports Medicine and decided that down that rabbit hole, I wanted to grow and be responsible for all of my own food as much as possible. um so I kind of just named it Bad Baxter Farm just because I felt like we were going to be learning everything the hard way.  And I just felt like there was so much misinformation and bad information out there that...
04:03We were making a lot of mistakes. And so when we decided to like kind of start documenting our journey, I just figured I would call it bad Baxter farm because we were making a lot of bad choices and I didn't want everybody to have to do the same thing.  Well, it's attention grabbing. that's, that's helpful.  Thank you.  I guess we should have called ourselves homestead. I have a lot of friends that I mentor now and I'm constantly like, don't use the word farm, like come up with, know, and I have a friend that she just recently, um,
04:31built a home and got some acreage and she named hers um Anchored Acres. And so I'm always like, gosh, I really wish I would have chose something a little bit different than farm because I don't feel like that highlights us as much as  homestead or  farmstead or something else would have. But  I think we're pretty stuck with it at this point.  Yeah. And you're not alone in wanting to rename your place because  we named ours a tiny homestead before we even saw the place. We had a little tiny
05:02City lot back five years ago and we had been offered the chance to garden at a friend's house and so I was like we need a name and  My husband said well since we don't actually own the property were we're farming Why we just pick a generic name like a tiny homestead because it's just a little small garden and I was like I was like cool He said and he said we grow at our place in our backyard. So, you know City lot a tiny homestead. I was like,  and Since we moved in here um
05:33I really wish we had named it last resort homestead or last resort acres or something because this is it. This is where we're going to live and die. We're 55. My  husband just turned 56. I'll be 56 in November. And we  purposely sought out a place that we could love for the rest of our lives. And  I keep wanting to rebrand, but we've been a tiny homestead for over seven years. think it's too late.
06:03We always grow, but I guess it's good sometimes to just hold on to what we made ourselves from too. So that's kind of how I look at it. I guess I never realized there's a lot of sensitivity when it comes to even using the word homestead. means a lot of different things for different people. And I don't resonate a lot um as closely with farmers as I thought I would. always really thought that health and wellness and farming went hand in hand and it's not necessarily always true. So
06:30I guess I just like to explain and share my story on how I came about that, but it would have been so much easier for me to just stay in the nutrition genre.  But I had to do it all for myself. And so  it's funny because I feel like I'm angering people on all realms on some days.  Yeah. Well, you can't please everybody all the time. It's not possible. And  for me, Homestead, ranch, farm, acreage, whatever, they all kind of fall under the same umbrella for me. So I just.
07:00Until I am proven otherwise, I just assume that the people who are doing whatever they're doing under whatever the name is,  is in the name of good. And if it turns out that it's not good, then I just ignore it because I can't change them. So, yeah.  Okay. So what do you do at that Baxter farm?  We've evolved when we first, oh we actually, when we moved to Oklahoma, we were on a smaller property.
07:26And um I had fallen into meeting up with a woman that had some  local grants to process poultry for the local community and I started working under her wing. So for some time, we actually processed birds under our thousand bird exemption  for the smaller communities that couldn't afford to take 200 to 300 birds to a big facility. And that's kind of how we got our start. A  couple of local facilities had opened up and kind of
07:56started having fits about us doing that. And so it was a lot of work and we were fine with being done with that first stream of revenue for ourselves. so we had switched over after talking to Oklahoma Department of Ag.  It was like, you guys don't want us butchering birds for people anymore under this exemption. What if I were to teach classes?  And that turned out to be a much more lucrative
08:21deal  and much more fun because I feel like it's making a much larger difference in the community.  now we teach quite a few different homesteading classes.  My farm is pretty much mainly animal based just because meat is expensive and I feel like raising your own meat gives you more bang for your buck. And so we actually teach people how to process chickens, pigs,  small ruminants like sheep and goats.  I don't really do
08:49cows, although I do have a mobile processing friend. Her title is backyard butchery and she has done some on-farm beef butchering classes here for us. But  I do do canning classes and stuff like that, all about preserving the harvest, but mostly health-based. There's a lot of people out there teaching how to make jams and jellies and sorry, sourdough bread, but we really, really try to focus more on
09:17preserve, spending your time preserving nourishment that's going to sustain your longevity versus um diabetes in a jar. So that's kind of what we've switched over to doing. um I have actually just announced that this is going to be our last year of hands-on in-person classes just because there's a lot of people now, we've  kind of taught the whole state at this point and we don't have a problem booking classes, but a lot of people are
09:46asking for more online content and step by step and um like I said before, there's a lot of bad information out there and I don't want to  be the YouTuber that spends  more time on editing than  quality content. So I'm just trying to make more time to figure that out. And I feel like people like my writing. um So I'm probably going to turn it over more into blog posts of instructional step by step with pictures and videos type um things. So
10:16Hopefully that'll be a it'll be an interesting transition for me.  We've kind of stepped back  my  We've been through a lot. Actually, we lost our home a year after we are less than a year after we moved to Oklahoma  to a tornado and then my My daughter was actually paralyzed four years ago now and so luckily we've kind of stuck to the mantra grow so small we cannot fail  and that has allowed us to
10:44still be farming to this day because everything's paid for bought and paid for by cash, but I can still stay home and take care of my daughter as a full-time caretaker too. So we didn't know if we would still be doing this  and  the community has really rallied behind helping us get to a place where we can still do this. So I'm just kind of trying to like look forward to the future and be like, okay, what can we do different and modify so we can make all this work long-term. Yeah.
11:14Awesome. I think that your idea for the blog thing instead of doing a whole bunch of YouTube videos that you have to edit is a really good idea.  Only because when I try to watch a YouTube video that is instructional, I don't want to have to stop the video to do the thing and then go back and start the video again. Right. And with a blog post, you could literally print it out if you need to so it's right there in front of you. I agree and I'm a real
11:43big lover of books still. I like to read, I like to collect  knowledge. And I just think that it's so hard in that genre that there's, like I said, there's some great stuff out there, but there's also some really terrible stuff. And it's just sugarcoated with fancy titles.  I just think like there's so much more to  not, you know, the doom scrolling and the five second reads and the three second videos is just not my jam. so I end.
12:13You know, social media wise, Facebook tells me that it's my long winded posts that do the best. And so  I guess I just need to make more time for blazes.  Blazes. Yes. Yes. I love that.  While we're talking about videos,  I have had this thing kicking me in the back of the head for about a month now because  I'm always saying on the podcast, learn to cook, learn to cook, learn to cook, because it's going to save you money in the long run, because you can buy stuff in bulk and actually use ingredients to make your dinner.
12:43It's going to cost less. And I have to sit down and talk with my husband about this because it just keeps sitting in the back of my head going, hey, you're to do this. Hey, you're going to do this. And so I'm debating doing some videos where I don't necessarily have to have my face on  camera.  But like, I never quite understood what the difference was between a rolling boil and a simmer when you're heating water until I actually did it. And it's a visual thing. It's not.
13:13You can't explain it to someone in words. You need to show them what it looks like. And I have a stove. I have a pan. I have water. I could take a video and explain that this that you're seeing is a rolling boil and this that you're seeing is a simmer. And the other thing that I would say is if you want to learn to cook, start with learning how to boil water and how to get it down to a simmer by turning the heat down enough.
13:36and scramble eggs because you can scramble an egg, you can figure out the rest. So you're not wrong. I was like, I could also just take a picture of me scrambling eggs and what it should look like from when the egg hits the pan to when it's actually done and ready to eat, you know, little tiny things like that. people can, are a lot of faceless pages out there that do amazing. Like you don't, you don't have to have, I feel the same as you. And especially with privacy, when it comes to my daughter, I try to be very
14:03careful a lot of the times because there's a lot of hateful people out there too. So there's nothing wrong with doing faceless posts. And I think it's smart moving forward too.  We kind of focus on that with...  I find that the boiling water and scrambled eggs thing very, very relevant when it comes to our cheese making class because people are so intimidated by making cheese and cheese is so expensive at the grocery store and so simple to make, but it's just a mental block for some people to just...
14:30need to see those step-by-step breakdowns of the process to make it as easy as it actually is.  Yeah, my son, my 23-year-old son made venison stew  on what is today's Monday. He made it Saturday.  And  I said to him, said, venison is a pretty tough meat unless you do certain things to make it tender. And he's like, I know.  He said, I'm going to cut it in small pieces and I'm going to beat the hell out of it with the tenderizer.
15:00And then I said, okay. And he said, mom, he said, I've seen you makes do a billion times. He said, I can do it. He said, if I have questions, we answer them. I was like, yes, of course.  And so he made it and it turned out amazing.  And he was very proud of himself. And I'm really proud of him for making it. And he said, it was really easy. And I said, honey, I said, cooking is about time and intent.  You have to have the intent to make something and you have to make the time to do it.
15:29He looked at me like I was the dumbest person on earth and went, no kidding.  I love to cook, but I totally agree. You  need to have the time to make it amazing.  Anytime we're in a rush, we never do nearly as well and it never turns out as well. I have uh my middle daughter, she loves to cook too. And she recently got to come home and visit.  My two oldest are animal care specialists in the military. And so she came home a few weeks ago and...
15:57cooked all kinds of stuff for us and I even learned some things.  Don't you love it when the kids make dinner? I love it when the kids make dinner. It is so amazing to me.  Number one, I love to cook. So I tried really hard  to teach them to cook and invite them into the kitchen and let them help. And so when they make dinner for me, it's like,  number one, I did my job. And number two, I didn't have to cook tonight. This is great.  So true.
16:27Adult children are wonderful to have around when they're around because  they get to help and they get to be around and visit and catch you up and then they go home to their own homes and then you relax again. Yes, yes. Yeah, I raised three strong girls and they're all so different, but  I still learn from them daily.  Yeah, it's crazy. It is crazy to me that they start out as these completely dependent, tiny humans.
16:54And then they turn into these people who learn things that you don't know anything about and share it with you. So true. I think it was my youngest daughter that actually got us on um board with doing  recipe bundles. We sell recipe bundles online for, because everybody kept asking me to do a cookbook and I'm like, I cannot even see.
17:16My thing with homesteading is, like all  of these people who are spending so much time editing, are they really homesteading? Because I don't have time for this. And I would love, I would absolutely love to write a cookbook, but I am such a perfectionist. I don't think that I would ever get it done, but the recipe bundle cards didn't sound that difficult. And my daughter helped me set it up digitally. And so anytime we have.
17:37a class, whether it's cheese making or canning or pig butchering, we just put a little recipe bundle together of five or six recipes that we discussed or utilized or taste tested in class. And we offer it free to the class goers and then anybody else who didn't go to the class can just download them for five to $10, depending on how big they are. And so that's been a nice revenue stream that once we set it up, it's just consistent whenever somebody happens to purchase it.
18:05uh I believe she ended up helping me with my  fodder and food foresting ebook as well. So I just would like to find more time for stuff like that just because I don't find it as overwhelming as a novel,  writing a novel or  editing reels on a constant basis.  Yeah, editing is such a pain in the butt and I don't want to discourage people from  doing video.
18:32I really don't. that's your jam and you want to play with it, go for it. But the reason that I love the way I do my podcast is because it's just conversations. Unless  someone says something  really inflammatory or uses one of the big bad swear words,  I have very little editing time at I'm trying not to, by the way. Yeah, me too. I swear like a pirate in real life.  And I try really hard to not.
19:02I mean, yes, I will say bullshit here and there,  but the big ones I'm not going to say because I don't want to have to edit it out and I don't want to come across that way.  In my real life. don't watch a lot of TV or spend time watching a lot of YouTube unless it's just me trying to fall asleep at night. But I'm always walking around trying to do things with my phone in my pocket and I want to learn something. So I'm constantly listening to podcasts while I'm working in the garden or.
19:31doing my farm chores. just think that it's a little bit  easier to make time for something like that. And you can feel like you're learning while you're working.  The weirdest thing about podcasts for me is that when my kids were younger, I didn't listen to podcasts, not because they didn't exist. mean, you know, their youngest is 23. So it wasn't all that long ago. They were still underfoot. It was because the way that I would gauge what was going on around me was through sound. And if I had earbuds in,
20:01I couldn't hear the kids in the background upstairs or outside. And so I didn't listen to podcasts. And now if I don't listen to at least one podcast a day, I feel like I forgot something. Yes. Yeah. I really enjoy it. It's connected me to a lot of really great people too.  I had read a book,  I think I had had surgery and I was bedridden for a minute. And so I had read a book.  Um, actually I remember the name of it. It was called farm to fork meat riot by Nidhi Bali. And
20:30It  talked about our food system and how pretty much anything in the grocery store is basically graded at a D minus at the best.  And so  it really opened up my eyes to  just wanting to have full control over my food. And nobody around me was doing it or was still really into subsidized  feeds and not trying to do better for ourselves as far as like, once you know things, you can do better.  so I had read her book and found a bunch of farmers names and I
21:00like such a geek, but I reached out to several of them and there are some of them that are still some of my, what I would say my best friends and I've never even met them, but it  really um actually opens up your world to people that you may not have access to otherwise. So  I think it's pretty cool.  And  I almost forgot because I was sad about my tomatoes in the beginning of the podcast. ah
21:24I have mentioned on the podcast a couple of times a place in Minnesota that grows tomatoes all year round.  They were called Bushel Boy Tomatoes,  the company.  And that's where we would get our tomatoes in the wintertime if we wanted fresh tomatoes from the store.  This goes back to your D minus thing. ah They actually did a really fantastic job of producing delicious nutritional food in their greenhouses in the wintertime.
21:52And I just found out a month ago that they have sold to a different company.  I am  so sad that they sold it and it sounds like the new company is going to continue growing tomatoes. So hopefully they'll do as good a job as Bushel Boy did. But you're right, a lot of the stuff in the store, I won't say all of it because like I said, this place did a really good job and they're local to us. But a lot of the stuff that gets shipped in,
22:22is God only knows how old it does. It's like anything and the nutritional content can't be that great if it doesn't taste like anything. Well, and the sad, sad reality is, they, your, your source probably sold out because they weren't feeling enough support. And I constantly, constantly preach that as much as I say it's, you know, I'm kind of the anti-farmer at some point. I have a uh local group called Oklahoma farm to table that's eight years strong and  it's all about connecting.
22:50community and consumers to their local farmers so that we can support local farmers because the more we ask and demand for better,  the more they'll provide for us. But when you're hearing these farmers saying that all through COVID, you know, people were supporting local and buying the eggs and buying the meat and then it just stopped because fast food and, you know, online shopping is just more convenient. It's just so sad and frustrating because we need our farmers to stay around.
23:19and they need incentive to stay around. So if we can't grow it ourselves like I'm doing, then we need to be buying it as locally as possible. Absolutely. um A friend of mine asked if she could sell her duck eggs at our farm stand. She asked this spring and I was like, of course you can.  We can't keep her duck eggs in stock. People have been buying duck eggs right alongside our chicken eggs, ours. And I was a little concerned that
23:47people wouldn't want the duck eggs or they would want the duck eggs instead of our chicken eggs and I was like we'll try it and see what happens.  There have been people who have bought two dozen chicken eggs from our chickens and a dozen duck eggs from her ducks on the same day in the same purchase.  Absolutely. I'm all in on duck eggs by the way but I
24:07I totally think that the more,  you know, all these little home farm stands are  popping up all over the place. And I just think they're fantastic because then you're literally just supporting your neighbor. And I think the more variety you have, the better because it makes people more enticed to stop. And when she asked me about it,  I thought about it for about 30 seconds, you know, because she texted me about it.  And I was like, I don't think that Minnesota has a problem with that. You know, the Ag Department, I think that's fine.
24:35Even though it's not a product of our farm, I don't think they care that our friend is going to sell her duck eggs in our farm stand. I think it's fine.  And it'll bring new people in because we haven't had duck eggs at the farm stand the last three summers.  we're here. And it's been so great. mean, I don't think, I think there's been maybe a handful of days since we opened back in April, I think it was April, that we haven't had somebody stop by for something. And it's been so much fun.
25:05to have people text me and say,  I picked up a flat of tomatoes today and I Venmo'd you, because we have the Venmo QR code on the board. And I'm telling you, Blaze, there is nothing better than the email noise happening and you look and it's like 25 bucks for tomatoes that we sold.  Like nine.  Oh, good. Somebody took them. Somebody's going to enjoy them. And that money is going right back into the business.
25:30we're  going to try and do something like that out here. We're pretty rural though, so it'll be interesting. But we recently just found out one of our streets is going to be opened up all the way to the highway. And nobody in the neighborhood was super excited about it. ah I have a, my best friend lives down the street and they're going to be right on the corner of that road. And so we were just kind of like, you know, we, I have the pool as far as following goes.
25:56I think that we can do a farm stand on that corner and have it do pretty well. And I love that idea because it keeps me closer to my daughter. And that's been my thing is I can't go out and do farmers markets instead of booths for hours and hours because I have to be here for her. But we're discussing when that road opens up doing something small like that too. So  I'm excited to work with them. I think it would be really cool. Yeah. And the best thing about a farm stand is you don't need it to be huge. Our farm stand is like eight by 10, eight feet by 10 feet, I think.
26:27Yeah, that's perfect. Because really,  know, seasonally, you're not going to have stuff all the time. But I think that's the benefit of those is you don't have to have set, I mean, I guess set hours per se, but even, you know, just a few days a week or whatever works for you. But I think going in with my neighbors makes it even more convenient because we can just split it up if we needed to  not have to man it all the time.  And the one thing that I would suggest is if you're trying to do it on
26:55on the cheap but still have it look nice  is there are people who are selling the little sheds all the time on Facebook Marketplace or  Craigslist or eBay or whatever, know, used sheds.  You can get one of those if you have friends who can move it for you. I don't know if you do, but if you do,  you can get one of those and move it and you can you can revamp it. You can repaint it. You can shore it up. You can make it what you want it to be. I love that.
27:23Yeah, something simple like that sounds perfect. Simple and close to home. That's what I need.  Yeah. actually bought a shed from a place from Tough Shed, T-U-F-F Shed, um because we just didn't have the time to mess around with it. And we happened to have the funds to do it. And it really wasn't that expensive anyway, because it was back  four years ago. um
27:49but it's red.  looks like a little barn shed. It's really cute. So we're kind of in love with it. That would match my house.  But it has been such a godsend because we have a big driveway. It's not long, but it's a good size driveway and it has a turnaround. So people pull in and  they cut to the right, they go around the circle and they end up right in front of the little shed. So even if three people stop in, we have room for people to park, which has been amazing.
28:19um But there are so many things that you can do  if you're willing to put in the blood, sweat and tears to do it. And it sounds like you are. And um I love that you're going to do online classes. I was just interviewing somebody last week um for the Homestead English Conference. It's their second year and I think they're in West Virginia.  And I said, so are you going to have any of the
28:47the breakout sessions or the whatever's  online. And she said, not this year. She said, well, we're going to try next year because right now they don't have the  equipment or people to do videos of each class time.  And she said, and plus she said, when people get together, amazing things happen. So we've wanted to keep it kind of in person. said, we've had a lot of requests for it to be online too. And so there's some real benefits to it being
29:16virtual, but there are also benefits to things being in person. So I guess it's the best of both worlds thing. You've already done all the in-person stuff for people and now people want it online too. Yeah. And I totally agree. Going to some of those conventions can really  rev up your engine when you've been feeling burned out for sure. My husband and I use a lot of those  out of state conferences for little mini vacations and we'll go. m Matter of fact, think I...
29:44Mother Earth News Festival used to have a great little convention.  We've gone to a couple in a couple of different states and we would go have a good time and come back like ready to rock with new ideas and new friends and new energy. So I definitely agree. There's like benefits to both of them. I just think it's so hard to sort through, you know, because there are so many people trying to do all of it and there's so many new things popping up all the time that trying to  manage your time with
30:13commitments and what's going to be valuable to you or what's going to be a waste of time.  guess  my perfectionism is I don't ever want to be somebody's waste of time or waste of money.  I'm very much  my own worst enemy when it comes to getting stuff. But I think I've even posted a quote myself, sometimes done is better than perfect.  that's true when you're doing the dishes. m
30:38but it's not necessarily true when you're trying to sell somebody an ebook or you want to present a recipe in its best light. oh So there's got to be a balance in there somewhere. Yeah, you cannot half ass a recipe because the people who use that recipe will be very angry when they're done. Right, right.  And I'm such uh a pinch of this and a dash of that. And it's so funny because my daughter, I was saying when she came to visit, she
31:03She made some Bria taco meat and I loved it. And I was in my brain started spinning because I'm like, there's gotta be a way to safely can this. So  I was trying to have her write the recipe down and I just cracked up laughing when she finally did it because it was definitely like a pinch of this and a dash of this. So  we shall see what will come of that.  And you'll end up changing it as you make it because that's what we do as cooks. We try stuff. We try stuff the first time  the way we're told and we try it and we taste it and we go,
31:33That's okay, but if I did this, it would be better. Absolutely. Yeah. And people are constantly asking for recipes of something that I'll share a picture of. I'm like, I just didn't even write it down.  I just did it. Yeah. And, I'm going back to bruschetta again, because it's what I make a lot in the summertime because of the tomatoes we get from the garden. My podcast is completely centered around tomatoes. Let's just admit it. uh
32:02When I used to make it, I found a recipe for it because I had it as an appetizer at a restaurant and I was like, what is this called? And they said bruschetta and I said, okay.  Went home, looked at bruschetta recipes and went, oh, this is super easy. I can do this. And I made it exactly the way the recipe said the first time. Now when I make it, I cut up oh four or eight tomatoes that I think look about the right size and I  cut up a handful of fresh basil that I think looks to be about right.  And I throw in
32:31But ton of garlic because we love garlic and we put in as much mozzarella cheese as we want because You can't measure mozzarella cheese any different than garlic got to be measured with the heart,  right? And I throw all that in the bowl and it's all chopped up and it looks beautiful and it smells good  and then I put a little bit of uh Mrs. Dash is the brand name because we use garlic and herb seasoning  and Then I pour olive oil into the mix
33:01to where I think it looks right. And then I pour  balsamic vinegar in to where I think it looks right and I stir it up and I eat it. And it tastes amazing. Now to tell someone the actual measurements, I have no idea. I don't even know what the original  recipe was. Don't know where I found it.  once,  this is the best thing about cooking and I wish I could get everybody to embrace it.  Once you learn the basics,
33:29It is art. You can do whatever you want to do with it.  Absolutely. I totally agree. I actually say that a lot of  our classes is  the art is in the details and it changes every single time and season and with the flavor of  the, I was going to say breed because I'm used to talking about animals.
33:47So the variety of the tomato, and I will say, that actually sounds very similar to a gazpacho that I make. And even though we're really highly animal-based here, but I can never grow enough tomatoes or peppers or garlic.  I think, would you say a butt ton of garlic? Like that's an actual accurate measurement for sure.  Yes, and when I say butt ton, I am not being um sacrilegious or swarish or anything.
34:15If you look up butt ton, it was actually a measurement used in shipping.  Okay.  The old shipping across the ocean, it was a measurement  for the weight of things. Oh, that's very cool. I learned something new today. Yeah, I didn't even  know that until a couple years ago. My kids would say butt ton. I'm like, I think that's not nice to say. And my son said, look it up. And I went,
34:43He said, you how you used to tell us, look it up? And he said, look it up. And I said,  B-U-T-T-T-O-N. And he said, yeah. And I looked it up and I was like, oh, okay. Have at it, say butt-ton all you want. I'm good with that.  I'm surprised I didn't know that because I'm very much into the history of food and um books that teach our ancestral  change into agriculture and stuff like that. So I'm surprised I didn't already know that.  I learned something new today. Good.
35:12Good. Everybody needs to learn something, at least one new thing a day.  All right, Blaze, try to keep these to half an hour. I feel like you and I could talk all day, but I know you don't have time and I know I don't have time, but I would love to.  Where can people find you? um Bad Baxter Farm on most social media platforms. I'm most active on Facebook. That's where our biggest following is. And then, like I said, locally, we have a group on there as well called Oklahoma Farm to Table. um
35:39My ebook and my recipe bundles are available on Buy Me a Coffee, Bad Baxter Farm,  and I hope to get my sub stack blog post going a little bit better, but that is where we're gaining emails for our future blog posts and instructionals.  Awesome. And keep doing what you're doing, but give yourself some grace. You cannot do it all in one day. promise you.  Thank you. That was a nice chat. It was. as always, people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com.
36:09Blaze, I hope you have a wonderful week. Thank you. You too. And good luck with your tomatoes next season. Oh, thank you. I hope so.
 

Homesteading-ish 2025

Today I'm talking with Dawn at Homesteading-ish. You can follow on Facebook as well.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis.
00:11Today I'm talking with Dawn at Homesteading-ish  in West Virginia. Good afternoon, Dawn. How are you?  Great. It's nice to be here.  Oh, thank you for being here. I appreciate it. So  you are  not  the, I don't know, founder of Homesteading-ish. You are part of Homesteading-ish. So tell me what Homesteading-ish is. uh
00:39um So I'm actually one of the organizers for the event.  There are a couple of us that got together and decided that we wanted to bring something different to our community and trying to help people establish a homestead, know what to do, kind of help them build those foundational skills that they need in order to live off the land or be more sustainable, to  work on things that  they would like to do to help support their family,  providing
01:08food or um whatever other things they might need in order to make their homestead work. So we put our heads together and kind of decided that we would go this route by bringing some non-traditional resources to the table and bringing people from not just the talking head and university world but from real life experience to the table that  could have an influence over how people view homesteading and small farm life. um So
01:37That's how it was kind of born. uh it last year was our first year. It was a fantastic event. We had a great turnout. And  one of the things we love the most is that we really wanted to bring a more intimate environment. Um, we were able to really bring people together,  let them  talk with one another, meet one-on-one, actually have real life conversations in real time with people that are living a lifestyle that they are seeking to  be better at. So we were able to do that.
02:08oh This year, I hope we're going to be able to bring that same kind of intimate atmosphere, the same kind of energy, the same kind of feeling to the table where people are really going to get to get into the bones  of what they're doing and why they want to do it and how they can  accomplish all of their goals.  Awesome. And when you're referring to last year, last year was the inaugural conference for Homosteading-ish.
02:33It was, it was our very first one. So we were excited that it was so well received to be able to bring it back again a second year. Okay. So when I, when I interviewed Troy last year, cause Troy is the one that, that kind of kicked this all off from what I've been told.  He was just getting ready for the first conference and he was very, very, very excited  and a little bit nervous. I am not sure that.
03:01I'm not sure that he really knew what he got himself into, number one, and how it was going to go, number two. That's kind of what was coming through.  And so how did last year go?  it, was it well received? Were there a lot of attendees, that kind of thing? So we were all a little bit nervous last year, not really knowing what we were going to get ourselves into and what people were going to think or how the event was going to go. But honestly, um there was
03:31It almost was, I hate to even say it, but it was almost flawless. It went so well.  We had a lot of people that came from all across the country, people from as far away as  California down to Florida. um I think at one point we had at least a dozen states that were represented at the conference.  A lot of people were really hungry to receive the information that we were trying to invest in them.
03:57people came and they loved it. They were screaming to come back and hoped that we would do it a second time. Again, it goes back to that  kind of we brought people to a place where it felt like home, where they were comfortable and they could ask the hard questions and get the hard answers and dig a little deeper into topics that they were interested in and actually get to speak with our presenters one-on-one. In some instances, we had a lot of opportunity for them to be able to mingle with each other and really
04:26You know, talk to people that were like minded be able to just make connections with people around here. The chairman of our board says that more gets done before and after the meeting than during the actual meeting. And so people were able to make meaningful connections with one another and then have those conversations even before or after the conference in order to follow up on topics that they were interested in or get more.
04:53connected with someone that knew more than they did about something that they were working on. So was really, really great.  We had a great turnout.  People were really very interested  in hearing  from a different perspective. uh One of the things that we tried to do was to bridge some gaps in between, you know, the  local community and then finding resources of help for them. So if you
05:23catch the ish part of our home setting ish.  That's the in search of help part where we're saying we want to help you because this is like,  you're working on the home setting part. We're kind of in the ish part where we're here to assist you and help you. And so we wanted to be able to provide those services and bridge gaps between  maybe some.
05:44federal or state level government or whether it's a local partner or connection or another community partner or even just people in the communities that wanted to connect with one another to find better resources to help  be more sustainable with their funding or with their product or just know more about what it was they needed to do next on their homestead.  Everything from
06:07how do you even locate the property that you want all the way through to, know, now that I have my property, I want to have a high tunnel or I want to have  a, you know, work on getting things to farmers market, or  I want to find finances and funding for my farm, or, you know, I want to raise livestock.  Just  a lot of, a lot of things that were able to be  talked about and discussed and brought to light.  Resources and opportunities available  on all sides.
06:36Okay, so I know that you have the second one coming up, the second year conference. And before we get into what's going to be new at that one, I have a question for you. During the year when you aren't doing the conferences, can people still reach out to you guys for information? Yeah, so one of the things that we're building for this year is just a network of community people where we can actually
07:04um address some questions and kind of they can reach out to us and find us and we can help with resources. um For me personally,  I work  directly for the Conservation District here in our local area. So we are always available.  know,  every day we're here in the office working with people in our local community, with NRCS and with the Conservation Districts and opportunities for them to get technical assistance
07:34to help fund financial assistance. um So we're always available and that's one of the great things about bridging some of these gaps is helping people understand what resources are available to them. We provide services for free to the public and to the community. We also provide financial assistance um in a form of  reimbursement grants. So there's a lot of resources that are available and people can reach out to us. uh
08:01anytime that they  have questions and we'll try to hook them up with the correct resources. Fabulous.  Minnesota's Department of Agriculture is  really, really good. I'm in Minnesota.  I don't know if you know that, but I'm in Minnesota.  Minnesota's Department of Agriculture is super helpful. Every time I've had a question,  I try to email people first because they can get back to me on their own time instead of having to answer questions on the phone.
08:30And every time I've had a question, I have just emailed whoever is in charge of who would handle my question. And they get back to me within 24 hours usually. And it's so amazing to me that these state departments are so quickly helpful. Yeah. I mean, we have the same thing here. Our department of Ag is great to work with. They have, you know, a wealth of resources.
08:55We also work with two local universities. So we work with WVU extension and we work with WVSU, which is Western U State University extension.  they have extension agents there that were also working  as partners along with our federal and state level partners that can answer  questions or  get into topics. And  all of our presenters are very approachable as well. So if you are interested in a specific topic or you have a specific presenter or someone that you met,
09:24They're all very, very approachable and very willing to answer any questions you have and get back to you just as quickly as they can, which is a great networking tool for all of the things involved. Yeah. One of the things that's wonderful about people who are in ag or in homesteading or farming or whatever, they all tend to be very helpful and very giving souls. And it's part of the reason I love my podcast so much because I reach out to people. I'm like,
09:51I do this thing, would you come talk to me?" And they're like, of course.  And  I just love it because everyone is so willing to share what they know  or dig into it and try to find answers for me if I don't know. Yeah, I mean, we're always happy to assist. em I think sometimes it's  just important to us as it is to the other person that's asking because sometimes we want to know too.  you know, one of the reasons why we...
10:19get into the lines of work that we get into is because we do want to assist people. We do want to  be available to help them, to make them, um you know, have the resources that they need so that they can  move forward on their projects,  whatever that might be. Yes,  and you don't, okay, I was always afraid to reach out and ask a question because I wasn't ready to do the thing. I was doing research.
10:43And I felt like I might be wasting someone's time if I asked a question, got the answer and then was like, no, I'm not doing that.  That's what you guys are there for, right? You're there to help us figure out what the next step is. Absolutely. Yeah. mean that we, found that a lot of people have an idea, right? Just like you said, they have an idea there. They might be interested, but they don't really know what to do yet.
11:07And then sometimes they get into it and they get in over their head or, you know, that's more than they thought it would be, or maybe they just don't have enough resources. And so we kind of want to be able to help assist them through those processes  in order to  not be overwhelmed and not just throw them the towel and decide they're going to quit, right? We want you to be successful.  We want you to be able to do what you've set out to accomplish. And so we want to provide  all the right tools  to help, to assist you in that.
11:36Well, let me say thank you because it's people like you that make things go, you know,  we need that. mean, yeah, absolutely. For sure. We need people to start growing their own food or their own livestock or  whatever right now. It's so important. And if you have the room, start something growing. mean,  if you live in a Northern tier state right now,  it's getting late in the season and  you know, you could do cold weather crops, but
12:05What I'm saying is if you have the means to start something growing that you can eat,  probably ought to look into it.  I think that's what I'm going to say for today.  We just had that conversation actually. em And we had a committee meeting this morning  for the upcoming conference and we just had that same conversation.  Everybody can do something no matter how big or how small, like  everyone can start somewhere. And I think that's the important part. oh
12:30You may not be ready to tackle the big things, but you can certainly tackle the small things. Have a small  backyard garden, maybe just a few herbs, or maybe you want to start with a couple of chickens, or maybe you want to start with something small and you can build your way up.  I think that's the great part about the community  of homesteaders and small farm operators is that we're always willing to help one another and we learn from each other. mean, we learn new things every single day.
12:56I think helping people to understand what the expectations are, helping them to manage their expectations and understand what the balance is between where you start and  where you see people are when they've been doing it for five or six or 10 years.  There's a big difference in getting those  resources available to fill in the gaps, I think is really important, but everyone can certainly start somewhere em and do something in order to make their  journey better, right?  Yeah.
13:26I always tell people that when you start growing produce or you start raising animals,  not only are you growing produce or animals, you're growing yourself. For sure.  Absolutely. We learn something new every single day. um It's an amazing opportunity to really just get back to the way nature has intended things to be. um Growing your own food and providing for your family.
13:55There's something special that happens in that circle um that doesn't come from the grocery store and that doesn't come from, you know, other places. comes  directly from you and your connection to nature or  you and your connection to the community folks around you that are doing those things. And I think there's something really special about that. is really special. And  I have, I have such a hard time with the word special because people have overused it so much that they become
14:24It's become trite, but  in the truest sense of the word special, it is special when you grow your own food. um So I wanna, we've got 15 minutes and I wanna know, I have questions about last year's conference so that we can compare it to what's coming up for this year's conference. So  how many um presenters did you guys end up having last year? So last year we had a little under 30, I think we had about
14:5327. This year we actually have 31 total presenters. We have 36 different sessions that people can choose from to attend and that's over six different tracks. So you kind of have six different subjects and you can pick one of those subjects and stay with that whole track for the full two days or you can bounce around and pick and choose whatever session you feel like is going to best suit like your need or your information or your lifestyle or whatever.
15:23it is that you'd like. So em I'm really excited about the lineup for this year.  The schedule is fuller this year than it was last year.  And there's really a lot of great information and really amazing presenters that are coming to the table. em I really think this year's going to be better than last year. And last year was going to be hard to top.  I was going to say it's always better the second year because you guys were just getting your feet wet last year. Yeah, for sure.
15:51For sure.  You you learn  from the first one.  You figure out how to make it better. And so I think hopefully that's what we've done. We've um added some things this year,  but we've also continued to keep that same kind of  feeling of intimacy and that same kind of feeling of community that we wanted to continue to bring to the table. Okay. So  I'm trying to,  I'm trying to do a comparison thing here, but I'm failing at it.  Last year.
16:21Last year, what were the tracks that you guys kind of had in place for people? So  last year, what we had on the table,  we talked about  land preparations and management.  We had a homesteading uh Appalachian skills track where you could learn about different types of Appalachian skills. We had an Appalachian specific track. So things that were only specific to the  Appalachian region,  we had
16:50talked about financial food and security or how about security like financially and like food security. We kind of put those together. We had a track on organic and then we talked about having an urban homestead. so this year, do you want me to talk about this year? Yes. So this year we kind of changed that up a little bit and I think we
17:15Took all the things that people had from last year that they loved and then the things that they wanted to learn about. And we came up with six  new tracks. So,  um, we're going to have a farm and land management. Nice. Um, we're going to have an Appalachian homestead skills.  So again, we're going to be bringing some skill to the table. Um, growing on farmstead. So are we talking about,  uh, growing your gardens and maybe growing a market, um, those kinds of things.
17:44And then we have a whole series on small livestock and remnants. So we're gonna be talking lot about small livestock. We're gonna be talking a lot about  animals and their care and their maintenance on your homestead  or small farm. We're gonna talk about building sustainability on your farms. That's gonna bring a lot of different topics to the table as well. um Funding and opportunities to  find support. How do we make our farms sustainable? How do we continue to do this year after year?
18:12And then we're going to talk about adding value to your homestead. So what are the things that you can do that  are going to add additional value to your homestead or to your small farm? Whether that's through a value-added product, whether that's through an agritourism tract,  or just things that you want to  add that give your property value. So I think there's going to be a lot of really interesting things that we're going to cover on these new tracts.  Awesome. I have a question about the small animal tract.
18:40I'm assuming in that small animal track, you're talking about chickens, quail, goats, sheep, that kind of thing.  Yeah. So we actually have a couple of tracks on sheep, a couple of tracks on quail, chickens, goats, pigs, all of them. We're going to cover all of them. Are rabbits included in there? So we did not include rabbits this year. It was  on the um discussion table, but  ultimately we need to find  someone who can really speak.
19:10clearly to that community. with  all of the other ones that we already had on the table, there just wasn't enough room to add that. But it is something we hope to add next year.  OK, cool. So I have a big question for you and it's something I don't know if you guys have floated it yet or not.  next, like the third time you guys do this,  any chance you would be willing to do an online version of it while it's going on?
19:36Well,  so we've kind of discussed that even last year, even as the first year  into this year.  Right now we don't have capacity to be able to stream or to be able to  video record all of our sessions.  But  it is something that we're hopeful that we'll be able to do maybe going into next year or into the future if we can um secure funding that would support uh live streaming or that would support the opportunity for oh
20:06You  know people to view our sessions afterwards the  the the caveat to all that really is that we're trying to build this community and when you do things online you don't necessarily get the same sense of community that happens  when you're there in person and meeting people and having conversations with people and  you know we have opportunity in between each of our sessions for people to you know get a little deeper in conversation  so you miss out on a lot of that when you start going to the lot.
20:35or to the live or an online platform. However, that being said, our real goal here  is to make sure that we're bringing quality education to the community wherever that is. And so if we have an opportunity  to do that and we can still provide educational resources and  opportunities for people to learn things that are important to them, learn new skill sets and so on, we want to still be able to do that. So we're looking at that.
21:00trying to figure out if that's an option that we can do for next year because I know that not everyone can travel to West Virginia, not everyone  that might be interested in hearing what is being said has the opportunity to be available. So um I really wish that we had had the opportunity to record all of our sessions from last year and then to record them all again from this year because there was so much valuable information.
21:24And if you weren't present, we hate that we missed it, you know, we hate that you missed it. So  that is something we hope to be able to do.  Cause  I am not coming to West Virginia.  I can't.  I would love to, but I just, I don't have the fundage right now to do that.  But I absolutely would sit down and listen to a presentation from
21:53home setting issues conference. Well, that was a really weird way to say  that. We do hope to provide that. I can't confirm anything just yet, but there are a couple of sessions from this  year that I'm hoping we will be able to record and then those hopefully will be available um after the conference. So we're working on uh a  small portion that may be available for the public to see if that's something that people will be more interested in. think there's what we've selected would be
22:23Um, really great opportunity, um, for people to hear from more than one person, um, on the topics that matter most.  Super awesome. hope that works out.  Um, okay. So it's  two questions. One is about price  and days for this thing.  And the other question is about, mentioned Appalachian skills, Appalachian skills,  Apple Appalachia. What exactly is the region for that?
22:52So um we live right in the heart of the Appalachian Mountains and the Appalachian region. So it stretches all over the East Coast. uh It actually starts in the southern part of the United States and Georgia  and Alabama and reaches all the way up through  way beyond us into the Northeastern states.  So it's just the mountain trail. And a lot of people know it as the
23:18you know, from the actual trail, the avalachian trail that runs, you know, over 2000 miles up and down our coast. And so um we really wanted to focus on the things that are important to this region and this area because it is so different from other areas of our country.  If you are here in West Virginia, you're pretty much probably living on a mountainside or a hillside somewhere. And so you don't have a lot of flat land like you would in Minnesota  to be able to
23:46really have wide open spaces and wide open farms. So last year, know, for example, we had a track that Troy did that was pigs on slope. Like how are you going to raise pigs on a slope? Like what does that look like in our area as compared to someone who has a flat river bottom somewhere or somewhere where they would be able to be more expansive. So we really tried to bring some things that are specific to what happens in our mountainous region.
24:14em in order to make it applicable em for the people that live here. I hope that makes sense.  does, but I didn't know  how far south the Appalachian Trail went because I grew up in Maine. read about the Appalachian Trail a lot, but I wasn't sure how far south it went, but I guess it's Georgia.
24:40It does. Yeah, it goes all the way south to Georgia and Alabama is like the trailhead. And then of course it runs all the way up through the northeastern states. And so, I mean, it's a wide, broad range of area, but we're kind of right in the heart of it all. And so that's kind of where we wanted to start with that. And as far as the skill part of it, you know, it goes back to, you know, what I mentioned about the types of the terrain. And then there's things that are just kind of specific to
25:09Um,  you know, our culture that's here, um, you know, the Appalachian people have, um, sometimes have specific cultures in various different areas. And so  I remember not too long ago having a workshop on heritage seeds. so  there was a family there that was trying to figure out about a particular seed that  that had been passed down through their family. And so there's a lot of things that happen and seeds  that, you know, kind of.
25:38become  part of a culture. And so we were trying to help them  trace like that  seed back to where it came from. And it was an interesting path because it wasn't quite as straight and narrow as you would have thought. It was a little windy because,  you know, grandma had grandma's beans and she called it one thing, but it's really part of this other bean family. That's like kind of a broader range. And so we just want to bring some,  um, something.
26:04to our culture and something to our people, something to the region that would be powerful and meaningful to them specifically. That is so fabulous. I love that. That's great. uh So what are the dates for this year's conference? So  we are going to stick with  until further notice, it will always be the second weekend in September. So this year it's going to be September 12th  and 13th, which is Friday and Saturday. It'll be right uh
26:33Just outside of the Charleston, West Virginia area,  it'll be at the same location we were at last year, which is a beautiful location at Bible Center Church.  It's like being in a  camp cabin somewhere. It's just a gorgeous facility. And so  it brings a lot to  the culture or the atmosphere that we're trying to culture.  Awesome.  And how much does it cost for tickets?
26:58So tickets right now, if you get your tickets early next year, tickets are $55. Tickets right now are $75. But because I kind of like you, I'll share my code. We do have a code right now that you can get, buy one, get one on tickets. So buy one ticket, get a ticket for a friend at half price. And so you can use code B-O-G-O-BOGO50. So B-O-G-O-5-0.
27:25And that'll get you a one and a half tickets um for the conference. So that's a, that's a great deal, especially this late into the season. Is the B O G O all capital letters?  Yeah. B O G O five zero. Okay. Cool. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. I like you too, Dawn.  Thank you.  Yeah. I mean, we're having a really good time. had a great meeting this morning, trying to wrap up all of our details and we're super excited.
27:53Little nervous again, because I think there's always, you know, that the nerve not knowing what to expect. But I mean, we have a full slate with 36 different sessions. And one thing I'm really excited about this time that we did not have last year is we have each day we have two things that are going to kind of be a little different. One is a demonstration. So we're going have demonstrations live on the grounds. And then we're going to have a roundtable discussion both days also. So two days worth of
28:22classes and two days worth of demonstrations and two days with uh really great roundtable discussions  on topics that are going to be super important and valuable, I think, going forward.  What are the hours each day? So on Friday,  registration opens at 10 a.m. We start at noon and we'll end around 7 after the  evening roundtable discussion and then on
28:47Saturday morning registration will open at 730. We'll start at 8 and we'll end about 415 on Saturday afternoon.  Okay, awesome.  And where can people buy tickets? Can you buy them online? So you can find us on Facebook and Instagram and at our website. So the website is homesteading-ishish.com um and you can get your tickets there. Okay, cool. uh
29:16want people who are in your area who can afford to go to go to the home studying is conference for 2025. But  what I also want people to know is that there are conferences like this all over the United States  all year long.  So if you can't get to the one in West Virginia that Dawn is part of, find one in your area that you can go to because she's right. Dawn is absolutely right.  The community that you find at these conferences.
29:44where you can talk with people who are in the same place as you are with your journey  or talking with the presenters or talking with people who are a little bit ahead of you  can only benefit you.  Absolutely. I agree.  100%. So,  all right, Dawn, thank you so much. As always, people can find me at tinyhomesteadpodcast.com.  Thank you so much, Mary. It was great to be here with you. All right. Thank you.
 

Clear Creek Ranch Mom - Why Beef Is So Expensive, and Some Temporary Workarounds

Today I'm talking with Leah at Clear Creek Ranch Mom about why beef is astronomically expensive right now, and some alternatives to get you through.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Leah at Clear Creek Ranch Mom in  Nebraska. I was gonna say Arizona, I don't know why. And  Leah's been a guest a couple of times on the podcast and she's here today to talk to us about the cost of beef right now.  So good morning, Leah, how are you?
00:27Good morning, Mary. Always good to visit with you. Thank you for having me.  Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for coming back. I love talking with you because you are.  My dad would call you a no bullshit lady. You are.  You are very, very forward and straightforward. And  I almost blunt. Almost. I hate the word blunt because people tell me I'm blunt all the time. And I'm like, that's so mean.  But you're very, very shoot from the hip. And I love that about you.
00:55And if Maggie barks in the background, I'm sorry, we've got the farm stand open, we've got tomatoes in there and people keep pulling in for tomatoes. So.  And it's International Dog Day, so she should have her moment.  It is. Yeah, I didn't post on Facebook about Maggie for International Dog Day or whatever it is because I forgot that that's what it was.  Yeah, I did too.  I'll have to do it later. Be like, my dog's the best dog.  I will die on that hill.
01:23So, um Leah, you are a cattle rancher, right? Yes, ma'am.  And you're in Nebraska, and you know as well as I do that beef prices have become astronomically expensive.  And since you're a cattle rancher,  I thought maybe you could give us all a little insight on what is going on with that.  Yeah.  Well,
01:48It's a long and complicated story. Like many things that go on within our food chain. And even in 2025, the story in Nebraska has been a bit complicated. So when we had our cattle branding the first Saturday in May, I always call that our celebration, our first big celebration of the year. We brand those calves and get ready to turn the cows and calves out to grass.
02:17But that day was anything but celebration. We were in a terrible drought in early May.  And I have a couple of photos that I took that morning.  One of the photos my daughter took of me.  And I  look at that picture of myself. I don't like it because the somberness was all over my face on what would typically be a joyful occasion. And it was me really evaluating the pasture conditions.  we have been in drought.
02:46on and off, some pretty significant drought really, since 2019, which was the last year of overabundant rainfall. If you want to back up even further across the Great Plains to 2012, we had what was called a flash drought across the Great Plains. What we saw then was the beginning of many ranchers starting to cut down on their herd inventory.
03:16So 2012 was that drought. It was terrible in Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. And Nebraska was plenty bad as well.  And we included had to make some very difficult decisions that year  as late  summer came  evaluating  our pasture conditions  and our feed and stock to see if we had cattle.
03:39feed that would provide for those cattle and thankfully we did, but we knew if 2013 didn't improve, we were going to have to start selling down to manage our pastures well. Thankfully that turned the corner here, but that persistent drought did not get better in many places. And as fluctuations in inputs continued to plague ranchers, what we really saw as 2013 and beyond to the
04:09it's really been the last 10 years,  ranchers  tightening those inventories.  Couple that with the fact that ranchers  continue to age  and land transition plans have not been great.  Ranchers don't have  a child to pass that operation to and kids inherit and sell off and not necessarily not selling it into production for future ranching.
04:38So the resulting effect is  smaller numbers because of drought, shrinking numbers of ranches,  which translates into shrinking numbers of cattle,  cows in particular, which are the pipeline, if you will, for what becomes the beef in the stores, they're the mamas, make this all happen.  And we won't even  really get into the challenges of imports  and tariffs and unrest.
05:08and uh consumers  making different choices about what they want to eat  as far as their protein choices and those challenges,  but the perfect storm of conditions. So here we are in 2025.  Cattle inventory continues to shrink.  We  are historically at the  lowest  number in a very long time in the United States. That includes cows, the pipeline.
05:37as well as the cattle in  the finishing operations to be butchered to go to the grocery stores, historically low numbers, and the resulting effect  is higher prices.  Now- because  when there's a lack of supply but the demand  remains the same, prices go up.  Yep. that demand has pretty much remained steady.
06:03Our border is currently closed with Mexico because of the concern  of the New World's screw worm. And if you haven't read up on the New World's screw worm,  it is a real concern.  I have  read about it.  I know enough from my grandparents era that when it was last here in Nebraska, it was bad and it was real bad. We do not want the New World's screw worm in the United States  for a whole bunch of reasons.
06:32But so we understand why the border is closed. We can have a whole conversation  some other time about  the need to import or not. I am a big fan of supporting American beef producers, if at all possible. I understand that people should be given choice. I'm a big fan of transparent labeling.  But the bottom line is American ranchers also are really good at what they do. They raise high quality beef.
06:59and consumers like choice, which means they want to be able to purchase the McDonald's dollar value, dollar, whatever they call their value meals. And that beef  is generally not the quality raised in the United States. We raise better beef than that. Good, better, and different. That's the way it is. um So that's why we talk about importing beef of lesser quality. So we raise really great beef. The other part that doesn't enter into the conversation is
07:29the cost of inputs for ranchers  is also  really,  really expensive to raise this beef that you enjoy. And so while it looks like ranchers are making big money right now because your beef is expensive, it doesn't translate into us lining our pockets.  That is simply not the reality for us.  am so glad you said that because I was going to get to that. So that helps. um
07:55That leads me to something I was thinking about last night and I was going to ask later about last now. um Once you sell your beef, your animals, and they're no longer your property,  whatever people do with the meat that's produced from that  sale doesn't impact your bottom line at all. Once  you've  sold the meat, that's it. Correct. That's absolutely  correct.
08:23One of the things that I want to tell people is if you go out and buy,  if all you can afford is ground beef right now, and ground beef is even expensive,  if you go out and buy in bulk and you  actually package that up and put it in your freezer  when it's on sale, you're going to help your bottom line. And I would highly suggest that people do that because  we do a lot of burger-based meals in our house, unfortunately. um
08:52Again, I am kind of burguered out. I'm over it, but my husband and my son are not.  And so when we buy ground beef, we buy it in bulk, we package it up in Ziploc bags, we seal them, we stick them in the freezer  when it's on sale. And that way we can continue to eat.  you're talking and  I don't know entirely who your audience is, but what you just shared, Mary, is what you and I consider normal practice.
09:22starting with the fact that you're eating your meals at home. Yes. That doesn't resonate with a lot of people anymore. it needs to. It needs to. And I had this conversation with my 17-year-old last night on our way home from the college visit when we talked about this interview about where is it appropriate to go when talking about
09:47the  bigger picture here  on the values  of the American consumer.  She said, well, I don't know how you think you can share something that may impact the value system of an American consumer.  I suppose you can share your thoughts or ideas and they might be intrigued  or make them question some of their thoughts or choices  and do their own research,  but you can't tell people what their values ought to be.
10:15You can suggest it, especially if you're concerned about their health, the health of their family and the health of their bottom line. But  are Americans really in a place today where they want to have someone suggest ideas to them? If they wanted to, they would. We talked about  the Mel Robbins, let them kind of theory. I think it's a really interesting topic because the things that I do,
10:42were the things that I saw growing up and the things my mom and dad saw before them.  And making conscious decisions that were within our budget, for instance,  or to be a healthy choice, that was always at the forefront  of family living.  And a lot of that has gone away now in our hustle and bustle. And then in some cases, it's because people are so busy working  to try to make ends meet. What they sacrifice is
11:11They don't have time to be home prepping a meal. And then it becomes this vicious circle where they are even saying, I don't even have time to look at the local grocery store ad for the week and choose the cuts of beef that are on sale because I don't have time to menu plan and I don't have time to  prep my meals at home or I don't have time to eat as a family.  Well, then we're just kicking the can further down the road.  And so again, speaks to a bigger uh concern I have here.
11:40Yeah, the costs of beef are really, really high. Beyond that, um can we adjust to living this way if we're willing to step back and say, there things we can do differently in our lives  to make beef or whatever protein you love still be a really important part of our family living and be okay  financially?
12:10I think we can. I think it can be done with thoughtful, caring, devoted  people who are willing to come alongside consumers and children. This kind of curriculum used to be a main staple  in home economics, instance, 4-H programming. And then it was just what you did at home. it was modeled and you knew it and you took it with you when you were out on your own.  we've lost so much of that.
12:40and it really does have me concerned. what you do is what I do. It's normal for us. The question is, how can we help others normalize such behaviors? By talking about it on my podcast and hopefully people listen and go, how do you do that? Isn't it something that, mean, our grandmothers probably would be rolling their eyes and saying like, can't believe that you're having to even
13:09suggest this,  I do want to say I have friends um whose children have studied the meat science program at the university and something really cool they still do is they go to the grocery store on the weekends and they set up a table.  And when people come down the meat aisle, they offer to help you talk about  what you can do with different cuts of beef, especially the ones that are on sale. Their whole motivational
13:34efforts of being there is to help encourage people to purchase, not just beef,  they do the same with the poultry and the fish and even the unique uh cuts of pork and sheep and goat, lamb,  that is to help inspire people to be unafraid to buy this cut of beef, knowing that you can take it home and do something  manageable that is tasty and a good option to feed your family. And I think that's a win.
14:01The thing that makes me a little crazy, Leah, is that humans are smart. I mean,  there are people who don't have a high IQ. I get that. Not everyone is smart, smart, but humans are smart. If they can go to work and do their job,  they can cook.  it just, makes me  crazy. And the other thing I was gonna say back five minutes ago is that  you don't have to have meat at every single dinner.
14:29You can always do a meatless dinner two nights a week if you want to not have to spend money on meat. It will not kill you to skip meat two nights a week. That's right. You can find lots of healthy protein sources that you do need protein. It's essential to live. But I learned from my mother in the very, very thin times in the 1980s how to stretch a meal.  And again, you can learn how to cook.
14:56And you can make black beans not taste like black beans. I saw my mother do it.  And  that could be quite delicious. And it's not hard and it's not scary once you get over  your apprehension or your  willingness to say, I'm going to put my phone down or I'm going to stop my distractions and focus on what really matters. We all have to eat like of all of the things you have to do in a day. Eating is one of them.  It just requires that.
15:25devotion to finding a way. That's why I'm so passionate about humans being involved in their own food security. It really does matter  and it doesn't have to be in some huge big way. It's in small ways, like I said, just learning to be invested in feeding your own family  because there may be a time that comes where you're going to have to pull yourself up. You're going to have to do it and boy,  wouldn't you rather
15:53find yourself in that position because  you were equipped to do it rather than having to do it. yeah. Learning to cook when you don't have to  is far better than trying to cook when you have to and you don't know  how. You were saying something about black beans. um I fought the red beans and rice trend for a long time. People were telling me I should make red beans and rice and I was like, eh I'm really not into it.
16:23And then a couple of years ago, I was like, I'm going to try making red beans and rice. I'm to look up a couple of recipes and see how you do it. And it's super easy. You make beans, you make the rice, you season it the way you want to. And tada, you have food. And I ended up making it with cumin and granulated garlic and some fresh onion and some sweet peppers and I don't know, stuff. And cooked it up. And it's basically like, like rice aromani, only way, way better for you.
16:53And to this day when I bring it up, I say, hey, we should probably look at making that taco  beans and rice thing again this winter, because we try to do it once a winter. It's not our favorite thing to make, but it's good.  so I stopped calling it red beans and rice because we actually use black beans. And it's taco beans and rice is what we call it because of the cumin. Good stuff.
17:19Yeah. And I don't know why I fought it for so long, except that I really wasn't a fan of beans. But then I was like, well, I like black beans and chili, so maybe I would like it in this. And it worked out fine. So.  Sweet potatoes are another favorite here. make sweet potato chili in the wintertime.  Yes.  Sweet potato. Amazing. My daughter is a Taylor Swift fan.  And the other comment she made last night was she's on social media just a little bit.
17:48It's funny how teenagers have kind of moved away from it. She said it's interesting how, and she works in retail for her summer or for her job after school,  how people are  very happy to get online and complain about the cost of groceries. And  I'll give it to you, they are very expensive. It's crazy. But she said Taylor Swift has a new album coming out in October and we'll have a concert lineup after that. And I don't think you're going to see people complaining about what they're going to shell out to get one of those concert tickets.
18:19I just had the same conversation with my husband only about the Minnesota State Fair. Is it?  The Minnesota State Fair is going on right now  and they have opened up the city streets around the fair so that people can park and you pay $25 for the day.  A full price ticket to get into the fair is $20. So  you're looking at $45  just to get into the fair if you're looking at parking and getting in.
18:47That doesn't count anything else. And I looked at my husband and I said, you know, there are people who can't afford to buy groceries, but 137,000 people  were at the opening day of the state fair.  It's just crazy to me.  it's an  interesting sociological evaluation  in our country. And I'd be so fascinated to speak.
19:13to people from other countries about this conversation in 2025  about our values systems. mean, Americans, thank you technology, but we have definitely become a nation of we want what we want when we want it. Our patience is thin. I mean, I had a friend talk about in the airport last week watching someone be late for their flight. It was their fault and they threw their water bottle at the flight attendant. And it was  their fault.
19:43Our patience is thin. I understand why. We're uh definitely a restless nation right now every day. It's like, what fresh  garbage are we going to have to hear about today? um We're restless. Our patience is thin. We want what we want when we want it.  And where are our priorities?  What are the things that matter most to us? And I think most, if you had conversation, it's, want to be able to provide for my family. I want us to be safe.
20:12I want us to have access to clean drinking water  and good food. But let's be very, very honest, Americans value  expensive entertainment. We want multiple cars and TVs and we want satellite uh channel packages of $200 and we want new cell phones and we want to  be entertained and go to concerts and  have all of these things  and we don't talk a lot about that.
20:41but we are sure ready to go on the attack about what we're paying for our groceries.  Yes, absolutely. And I hope that you didn't take my question to you and messages about the cost of beef as an attack. just want to- Nope, I've been getting a lot of questions about it,  like an explanation or a breakdown. people have actually, I've  been very grateful  to hear, please tell me that-
21:06I'm paying whatever for this roast in the grocery store that some of this is getting back to you because I know during the very bad years,  y'all were losing money every year.  And I thought how interesting that you noticed.  Historically, Mary, we only make money one out of every seven years as cattle ranchers. How many Americans do you think the grocery store worth are thinking?
21:34those other years when they're getting a great deal. Huh, I hope the ranchers are okay.  You know, I actually do think about that and have since I was about 15 because my grandpa's friends had a dairy farm  and I ended up talking with Bea. She was,  I used to think of her as aunt Bea, but she wasn't actually related to us.  And I asked her one time, said, so  if,  if we're buying milk at the store for whatever it was, two and a half bucks a gallon.
22:03back then. I said, what are you making?  She just laughed. Just laughed. And I said, I'm not  being stupid. I'm genuinely curious how this works.  And she said, oh honey, she said, I love you. She said,  just nobody thinks about this. It would be you who would ask me this.  And I laughed and I said, well, seriously. And she said, we make about 50 cents a gallon.
22:34the most grotesque story of how a group of American farmers have been marginalized historically, repeatedly. is what has happened to the dairy farmers of this country. It's sickening. It's just sickening. I said to Aunt B, as I called her in my head, I said, so how can you afford to do this? And she said, well, we really can't.
23:03And I said, why are you doing it? And she said, because we love it. And the word love was so full. just, I had no other questions. I couldn't even think of any, because she was just like, we love it. Yep. I feel the same way. And so what most people do is diversify their risk. So we have row crops, which is a whole other conversation and how bad that is right now. And we have cattle and we have off the farm jobs. And that is the story of most of us.
23:33And again, we look through our lens and forget about the lens of others like the cranberry farmers, the potato farmers, the wheat farmers,  the almond farmers,  every one of us going through our own seasons of awful times and then okay times and wrestling with the same  struggles  collectively. It's feast and then famine and then famine and then famine and then feast and then famine and famine. And you're hoping
24:02that you can just hold on through all of those lean years, being hopeful for that one really good year or maybe two good years in a row. The challenge is we have such little control over our costs  and that is getting to be harder and harder and harder. And that is why we're seeing people leave agriculture altogether  because of those forces that we can't do anything about like skyrocketing property taxes.
24:32um And a great reckoning is coming in this country because consumers are also being
24:44illuminated by um seeing how other countries can  use their pipelines to bring us food cheaper for a whole bunch of reasons that are maybe not as ethical when we talk about what they're paying their labor for.  And they don't have some of those other challenges.  We have our own set of problems in this country too  numerous to list when it labor challenges, taxes, um water.
25:12issues, water access. ah I mean, a great reckoning is coming and that is, again, going back to the value system.  Americans,  what role do you want to play in how you feed yourself?  Do you care? Do you want this country to provide for you? Do you care where your food comes from? Do you want to be a part of it?  And if so, if you decide so,
25:43striking the right balance so that people who are doing the producing can make an honest living at it because by golly, it is really hard um without gouging the consumer.
25:56It's a very, very fine balance.  I have never met a farmer or rancher who said, I'm not willing to pay my fair share. But those who are actually the ones they'd like to make an example of saying, you know, they live high on the hog and get new equipment all the time and new houses and have XYZ, they're so few and far between. And they talk about, well, they're the ones, you know, getting subsidized and  getting all this extra.
26:22I I worked for the USDA and I have a lot of neighbors and friends and I work for a nonprofit that visits with people all the time. And I don't know who these people are.  I'm sure there's some that exist, but by and large, most of the producers that I know, they're just getting by.  And most of the time it's because they're, like I said, working off the farm as well.  It is really not for the faint of heart and it's getting more difficult by the year.
26:51Yes, and that actually leads me into another question about this whole beef situation. If the, let's call it inventory of cattle, at historically dangerous, I think it's dangerous, low, and it takes, it takes what, a year and a half to three years for a steer to be ready to be sold and butchered? Depending on what you do, but
27:1718 to 24 months is probably considered more commonplace,  depending on how aggressively you can push  them. So  if things don't improve,  could we be looking at a  cattle list United States in the next 10 years?
27:39I've heard a lot of conspiracy talk over the last couple of years about what's the end game here. And honestly, I don't know, Mary. I can only speak about what's going on in my backyard. um And ranchers  depend on the renewable resource, which is rainfall, to grow the grass that the cattle need. So  our inventory is down here.
28:07And that's because, as I said, we had to deplete some numbers because of drought.  Our moisture has replenished those pasture conditions. So we're in a position where this fall, the females um will be evaluated and the best ones kept. And the hope is to keep more than usual so we can start replenishing those numbers. What that means for the consumer is those ones that would normally be called feeder calves will not be going on.
28:37to be finished as beef.  So we will keep more to start rebuilding our pipeline, which means in two years,  three years,  we'll start to do our part to try to send more  towards that finishing point.  But for the next two to three years, we're actually going to continue to shrink our contributions to what goes to be finished.  There is  talk about
29:06And again,  I say ranchers are real smart and very ingenious in their breeding programs. They are raising animals that  feed more efficiently. They finish faster. They are growing cattle uh not so big,  but appropriate to their frame size. So they finish faster, which means they're ready to go to be harvested  sooner, which gets them to the grocery store sooner.
29:36but that doesn't solve all of our problems. um The American rancher  is one of the most resilient people types  I have ever met. They will not go down without a However, they will need people to join the fight with them because there's not enough of them. Yeah, that's what I thought your answer was going to be.
30:06In the meantime, for people listening,  maybe  we could all give  the ranchers time to rebuild their inventory  by maybe finding other protein sources  and a really good protein source couple. Number one, fish. Fish is a really good protein source and  you know, it only costs like 20 bucks for a fishing license and  there's a thing called a limit.
30:35And  when you go fishing, you're allowed to catch a certain number  of a certain kind of fish and you bring them home and you freeze them and you stick them in your freezer.  And it's a per day limit, I think, or a possession limit, like total possession limit.  And the other thing that  is really dying in the United States is hunting for deer. My dad is an avid hunter. He just turned 83  and he went hunting last year. He did not get a deer, but he still hunts.
31:05And  venison is a really, really good alternative to beef if you can't get beef.  so,  and my point is, is that  the kids coming up today are not deer hunting.  has a plethora  of extra deer in the state. So the point that there are places that are overrun.
31:30Like they have special hunts in the fall so that people can take more than one deer to get the population down. So if you can learn to fish or you can learn to hunt,  maybe that would be a way to  give  you guys a chance to build your stuff back up because we're not like screaming for beef every time.  I think there are many creative solutions to our challenges. also wanted to mention our friends who raise poultry.
32:01poultry numbers have also been annihilated because of the required um
32:08um amount of animals that had to be destroyed because of bird flu. In many cases, whole flocks wiped, right?  So you'll notice poultry prices are up as well. And I think that is a contributing factor to why those prices are up. But realistically, we need to support all of our protein producers. I have a dear friend who raises sheep. um I am not a huge fan of eating.
32:38uh lamb chops, but I do eat them to support her. We have them for sale in our grocery store.  I have another friend who raises meat goats and she actually has very, very high demand. And not just from our Hispanic population who enjoys  using that meat  in a lot of their dishes, but from others who are being more adventurous.  There's game birds,  the hunting and fishing, as you mentioned.  I don't want to forget about our friends who raise pork.
33:08There are so many viable options for us. And I also don't want to count out  the opportunities do exist for people to buy a share or participate in a co-op  where you can help raise and purchase directly from a producer. You just have to do your own research. And  I have this conversation often. We again, we've become this.
33:33this country of people like convenience. don't want to plan ahead. I don't want to make a list. want to wander around Walmart and just buy whatever I think I need.  But if you want to be intentional and stretch your dollars and use a budget, you can plan for these things and stock your freezer,  shop the sales,  and you'll be all right.  It just requires
33:56shutting away those distractions that we all struggle with, myself included, and being really intentional in your decision making.  And that is what we're all going to have to do to weather the storms  that we're in and what we know we have ahead of us.  absolutely. And  that's part of the reason I wanted to talk to you because I knew stuff would come up like how to get around some of this  pain point of  how expensive things are.
34:24I've told the story a couple of times already on the podcast, tell it in because it's true. We weren't going to get new chickens until this past May. We ended up getting them in March because I didn't want to pay for eggs at the grocery store that were yucky, that didn't taste right to me. And so we ended up getting chickens and we've been selling, we can't keep eggs in the farm stand this summer. We put two dozen eggs out there a day at $5 a dozen and they're gone by the end of the day.
34:52that makes my heart so happy because that means others are recognizing the value of what you have in supporting you. it makes my heart happy too, because I would be swimming in eggs right now if people weren't buying them.  But I just, could not look at another store bought egg. I was just like, there's nothing to them.  They are actually lighter in your hand than the ones we were getting from our chickens  last fall.  And so  if you have room,
35:22And if your city allows it, or if you're out in the suburbs, most suburbs will let you get away with a few chickens. You can be having your own eggs from your own chickens if you want to. if we had room, we would probably have a dairy cow and a steer we're raising up for butcher, but we don't have room. So you can DIY this, you can buy into a herd share, you can buy
35:51beef from the local farmer who has it in their cooler because that's how they do it.  There are so many ways to get around this  insanity about inflation on everything. It's not just beef or chicken, it's everything right now.  you got to go look, you've got to do the research, you've got to find out how to get around it. And that's why I do the podcast so that can tell people things like that. uh
36:20I'm a big fan of history and I'm a big fan of the writings of Laura Ingalls Wilder.  Me too. Her  writings apparently now are not without some controversy and I'll set that aside and focus on the positive. One of  my favorite books,  I don't know for what reasons,  has always been The Long Winter because it's truly a depressing story. I always  like to refer to what Laura wrote of her mother.
36:49In the long winter, by all historical actual actual historical accounts, people starved and they did die.  But Laura lovingly referred to the efforts her mother made to keep feeding them through the very leanest of times.  And her mother  absolutely  decided, I will not let my family starve.  Now.
37:19If you walk around in this country, at least to my eyes, I'm not seeing anyone starving. Do we have people who are food insecure? Oh yeah. Do we have real problems with what kind of food is available? Yes, that's a whole other conversation. But the message conveyed was she decided she found a way. And that is the message for all of us.
37:49We have to decide.
37:54what matters.  Yep. And we have to decide what we're going to do about it. Yes, you're darn right. And it takes all of us  to be intentionally committed to figuring it out. We are no longer given the luxury of, I'm going to sit on the sidelines and I don't have anything to add of value. I have nothing to say, I have nothing to contribute.  We all
38:22have the means to contribute something  meaningful to figuring this out.  Absolutely, we do. I just hope other people jump on board because we need everybody. We sure do.  Well, I want to end this by saying that  I think that people don't understand that  once they are buying stuff at the grocery store,
38:46The farmer has already been paid for whatever it is that they produce. So if you buy stuff on sale, you are not hurting the farmer. Don't worry about that. If you need to buy a burger on sale, buy it on sale so you can feed your family. The middle man is doing just fine. In fact, I have some concerns, some transparency issues, but we got to be real honest about that.
39:11For every  action, there is an equal reaction.  what we are seeing is, even in my own local grocery store in Nebraska, we are on a surge, we're catching up with the push to raise the minimum wage.  Again, a whole nother conversation, but  you can't complain about the price of groceries when you're also saying we've got to increase wages.  It's just the natural course of things.  But you're right. The middle people, they're getting compensated just fine.
39:40And whatever you're paying in the grocery store has nothing to do with what the farmer or rancher is receiving. I say this all the time, but I'm going to say it again. You guys learn to cook from scratch. You will save yourself so much money and you will eat better. 100%.
40:03oh it's not hard, you just got to learn how to do it. Once you learn how to do it, you've got it. It's like riding a bike. You never forget how to cook once you learn how to cook.  Yup. uh I love, I adore Jennifer Garner and she has a show on Facebook called her Pretend Cooking Show. I don't know if you've seen it. I have not.  Her recipes are a little fancy for me. Sometimes her ingredients are things  that I wouldn't say, quote, everyday people have access to and all.
40:31But she is so relatable. She's so fun. She's pulling out old cookbooks  that were her grandmother's, et cetera.  And I adore it. And she is doing that. She's a Hollywood type. She could have a home chef. She doesn't.  She is in the kitchen preparing her food  from scratch and feeding her family. If she can do it, others can do it. So more of that. That's what we need to see.
40:59Yes, and even if the thing that you cook doesn't turn out perfect, but it's edible, you can still eat it. made a loaf of, I tried to make a loaf of sourdough. Today's Tuesday, Sunday, and I'm not good at this yet. I've only made one. This is the second loaf I've made. And I followed the recipe with my active sourdough starter and it was not rising the way it was supposed to.
41:24And I was like, you know what, I'm just going to bake it anyway. If it's a brick, it'll go to the chickens. And if it's not a brick and it's edible, I will eat it.  And it was edible. It was underproofed because it didn't want to rise. And  I ate some of it and it's fine. There's nothing wrong with it. When in doubt, bakers can always blame the weather, blame the humidity, blame the fog, blame the wind.
41:48Well, I think what went wrong is it was only 70 degrees in my house because it was cold outside on Sunday. It only got to 67 degrees here on Sunday. think winter is coming early. I'm just having this feeling. We're about due for a hard winter and I don't want to be a worry ward, but I certainly want to make my plans accordingly. We always plan for it to be a bad winter and that way if it's a good winter, we're good. And if it's a bad winter, we're ready. 100%. Smart lady.
42:19All right, Leah, thank you so much for coming to chat with me about this because I just, needed to talk to somebody who's actually in the business who could be honest with me. I appreciate it. Anytime. Well, I'm passionate about it. I'm not as informed on the actual  statistics day by day  of where things are and how they're going. I can tell you because I am a person who has to write a big check to pay the property taxes that at least here in Nebraska, as I said,
42:47There is a great reckoning coming because while we have these really high dollars  for cattle being sold at market, our inputs continue to skyrocket. And what I think we're actually seeing is the devalue of the dollar itself. m people aren't gaining ground. And we need to because one day the numbers are going to tumble, but the inputs are not going to. And then where will that leave us? And it breaks my heart to think that I couldn't.
43:17positively sell this dream to another young person because it won't be possible. I mean, I just can't  bear the thought  that that optimism would have to leave me. So  it's coming. ah It may be upon us already. um There are young people who  are really intrigued and interested in this and
43:45And being okay with the hard work  used to be the biggest part of the battle. But now it is the capital outlay. Being able to manage the risk financially um has outpaced  the worry about being able to get the work done.  Yep,  absolutely.  All right, Leah, where can people find you?
44:10You can find me on Facebook because I'm old fashioned at Clear Creek Ranch Moms.  don't think Facebook is old fashioned. I just think the young kids want us older folk to feel  old. That's what I think.  I did hear. So we've been serving our students this summer and our students are between 18 and 30 years of age. They all say they get on Facebook as a source of reliable information. They just don't interact. They do get on there to find
44:39credible information, which is interesting  that that's the way they put it, but they just don't post, they don't share, they don't do that kind of stuff. But they still like to go online on Facebook to look for credible information.  That really scares me. I don't like that at all.  And maybe they were referring to posts made by about  workshops and educational opportunities, which is where we share a lot of our things on Facebook about upcoming events and things. But  yeah, I was chuckling.
45:08for sure.  Those kids have no idea what it's going to be like in 25 years for them. sake.  I'm very concerned and I appreciate being able to have a real conversation with you because it is getting harder and harder for people to discern fact from fiction when they read what is created by chat GPT  or an AI voice  knowing are you even looking at something that is real or not. Yeah, it's another.
45:38conversation for another day. Yeah, for sure. We should just like schedule a call every five, every week for five weeks to hit the five things we didn't talk about today.  Anytime, anytime.  All right. As always, people can find me at a tinyhomesteadpodcast.com.  Leah, thank you so much for your insight and your wisdom. And I know you said you're not an expert, but you are wise about this stuff.  Thank you. You are a wonderful place for people together and to
46:08and find community and support one another. Keep up the good work.  I'm trying every day.  And my podcast is two years old tomorrow. Can you believe that? anniversary. Thank you.  All right. I'm going to catch you, You have a great day. You do the same. Thank you, Mary. Bye.
 

Music On The Homestead - Kerry Adams at Lagoon Records

Today I'm talking with Kerry Adams about music, and why it's important on the homestead.
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Kerry Adams at Lagoon Records. think it is in Michigan. Good morning, Kerry. How are you? Good morning. I'm fabulous. How are you, Mary? I'm good. So again, it's going to seem weird that I asked somebody who's into music to be on the podcast about homesteading, but music is a craft.
00:28And music is a big part, has been a big part of Homesteaders for a long, long time. So tell me about yourself because people then understand why I asked you to be on the show. Wow. That's a big question. Well, yes. I've been doing this for about 50 years. So I started back in the Jurassic era and it's, I'm a guitarist or producer. I used to be on tour.
00:55I managed a couple of different artists when we were on tour and I'd be their guitarist. um I've owned three recording studios. I still have one now. um And to me, the music is not a whole lot different than eh cooking the vegetables that you grow or being a painting artist or whatever. It's all art and it all kind of comes from the same place. So I love to play and I love to cook. So it comes from the same side of the brain, I guess.
01:23Um, so yeah, I've been doing this since I was a kid. My dad was an amateur guitarist.  Um, my sister was a published,  uh, pencil and ink artist. So I guess it's kind of in the family a bit.  Um,  so  that's  my thing. That's what I know how to do uh and cook. know how to cook seven days a week for my family. And we try to do  shopping locally and, and
01:51I don't have enough property  to grow enough vegetables and stuff to feed my family. So we do a lot of  shopping locally and farmers markets and things like that. And to me, it's all kind of the same thing.  And I've seen a number of your podcasts and I think they're very cool. So  I'm honored to be here today. Thank you.  Well, thank you for saying my podcast is very cool. I love it, too. uh So you said that you think it's something to do with the brain that actually leads me to it's something that I believe, too.
02:21My dad was a bio med tech for years and he just turned, he just turned 83 in July and he's been retired for quite a while.  And I know that you worked for Ford as an engineer  and I feel like  engineering or wrenching on machines  is something that goes with music.
02:47See, that's, uh, you know, we, I don't know that people know this, but we've kind of known each other for awhile. Um, you're one of the few people, there were old engineers that used to tell me, well, you know, if you're an engineer and musician, that's two different sides of your brain and they'll never connect. You can't do both well. Um, I believe engineering is artistic. Um, it's creative. Like any of those things. Um, if you look at engineering and you say, okay, I got, I either have some new widget I want to design or I have some problem to solve.
03:17Yes, there's mathematics, there's trusted formulas, things you do. But before you even do that, you have to look at a problem and go, okay, what would be the best way to handle this? And so the artistic part is being creative before you even start a project. I think it all, even engineering comes from the same place and the same side of the brain. But having done that for 35 years and being a musician for 50, I think they're actually more similar than they are different.
03:47Yeah, my dad played guitar for a long time and  he is a natural tenor singing voice and his voice is beautiful. I don't know if you heard him sing a long time, but when I did hear him sing, it was gorgeous. So  I think that music and engineering are tied together and I will die on that hill.  Well, thank you. There's not a lot of people  ascribed to that, but it's true, I believe. Yeah, I've known enough people who who wrench on machines, whether it's cars or
04:17radios  or  copiers or whatever that have some musical talent that I really think there's a tie in there.  So anyway, em I am assuming that back many, many, many years ago when people were starting farms that guitars were not exactly easy to come by. And that's why there's something called the flat top box. Yep.
04:45Yes. Um, some of those instruments actually, speaking of being artistic and creative, some of those, uh, if you look at some of the early stuff from the twenties and thirties down in the Delta, which is where a lot of this music came from, um, it, you will see everything from, uh, a, a wash bucket with a stick and a single string. And mean, all those kinds of sort of cliche looking things, um, a lot of this stuff, and there was three string guitars and four string guitars. mean, people.
05:14A lot of times built whatever they needed to do to make sounds, make music. So it's not like you walked into your guitar center and bought a really nice Gibson guitar, right? You had to kind of create something because a lot there, wasn't people making this stuff. So a lot of homesteaders, a lot of people down in the twenties and thirties in the Delta were buying old pieces of guitars or beat up guitars, or if they couldn't afford it, a lot of more making their own guitars. So.
05:43And the same thing is true of basses and fiddles and everything else. There was a whole sort of underground thing where people had to build instruments if you wanted to play music because you couldn't just go down to the music store and buy one. So that's kind of where it all started,  is people built these things.  Yeah. And were the strings made out of like animal sinew or what were the strings back then? you know?  Usually cat gut.  That's...
06:13But like violins and stuff  and violas for years and years and years were cat gut strings, which is basically just cat gut and it's spun until it's really tight and that's what you use.  I think guitar, the most part, were steel strings to a degree. There weren't many cat guts, but that long ago there wasn't steel strings. Somebody was making steel strings, so had to use something.  Yeah. So cat gut as in intestines, is that what we're talking about? Yeah. Yeah.
06:42And to make the bass string, it was just a thicker piece. Is that how that worked? Yes, bass strings are, and you're exactly right. Bass strings tend to be larger diameter and they vibrate at a lower frequency, which is where the bass is. So you would just make bigger strings and a longer neck because the longer a string is, the lower its frequency, even if it's the same diameter. So  if I take a string with a given diameter, it's on a guitar and I made it another foot longer and put it on a longer instrument, wouldn't
07:11create a lower tone. This is why I wanted to talk to you because you know stuff I don't know.  I know just enough to be dangerous.  Okay and also the reason that guitars and fiddles or violins were popular on homesteads is because they are eminently portable instruments. yes it's really hard to go around on Saturday night to the barn with a grand piano. It's just not easy to do.
07:38Yeah, and pianos were expensive to have. Only the rich had pianos. Correct. Correct. So  even if you could only afford a five dollar flat top box guitar, you could go down to  Saturday night,  you know, and have a campfire and hang out in the barn and  play some music and everybody could sing along. that same thing is still true today. You know, there's
08:04There are a few other options, like they have little mini keyboards that you could have speakers in them. You can kind of sit on your on your couch and play,  which is a fun thing to do. But guitars still to this day are historically portable  and  relatively easy to play and work in almost any environment. So yes, they're  it's just a pretty handy instrument overall. OK, can you explain for my listeners how a guitar works, how it makes sound?
08:35Well, are we talking about an acoustic guitar?  An acoustic guitar is just basically there's bracing and stuff inside which changes some of the tuning, but basically it's just an empty box. um And there's actually some guys who build to even to this day called cigar box guitars. So if you think about a box of wood,  a box of wood has basically a kind of a fundamental sound. If you were to cut a hole in a box and yell into it, you would hear your voice come back.
09:03If I take that box and I put a neck on it with some frets and I string some strings over it  and I hit those strings where they vibrate, that wood box is going to amplify that sound out the sound hole, which is what you see on front of most acoustic guitars is a round hole in the front.  That's where the majority of the sound comes out. So the box itself has some resonant frequencies, but inside of it, based on the volume, how big the guitar is, and there's different sizes guitars. um When you hit those strings.
09:30that vibration goes into the box and comes back out the hole, but it's amplified when it comes back out the hole because it went through that box and it vibrated and that's how it gets boosted. So that's basically how an acoustic guitar makes it sound, which is not a whole lot different than violins and violas. You'll see what's called the F holes, which is the F shape cutouts in a violin. The sound comes out of those the same way because it's not a solid box. It's an empty box. So that's how the sound gets amplified and comes out. Cool, because
10:00I know how it works, but I don't know how to explain it to make other people understand it.  and  so the other thing I wanted to ask you is when I was little, my mom says that I was singing before I taught and that didn't go anywhere. Cause then I got told, up a lot. But, uh, but  if someone has a kid that is showing some, some interests or talent for music,
10:27Should they? Should they encourage that? Should they give them all the tools or should they just let them figure it out?  I would say  give them the tools and here's what I  and I've been. I'll I'll give you the example that I tell most parents of kids who are either showing a propensity or not showing a propensity for this.  A lot of parents want to put their kids in a music class, right? Little Johnny should go learn how to play a guitar or a horn or something.
10:57And what I do is when they used to come to me when I was teaching and they would say, Hey, I want my kids to learn how to play. let's just use a guitar, for example, because that's what I play. I want learn how to play guitar. Okay. So we go get him an inexpensive guitar. And then he would come to me and we'd start out with lessons  and I would do that. And then, okay, I'll see you next week. And I'd give him some stuff to do.  And he would come back next week and either know it or not know it very well. And I would look at mom and go, okay, what's going on? She said, well, I had to like.
11:26lean on him all week long to practice.  And he would rather go do whatever he wants to do, play sports, all this kind of thing. I really had to kind of beat on to practice the guitar before he came back this week for  to go through the lesson. And if you go through that a couple of times, I would look at the parents and say, I'm going to be honest with you.  If little Johnny would rather go play sports or  your little daughter wants to go play hockey, whatever she wants to do, I don't care. Invest in that. Because if you have to force the kid
11:55to play an instrument, to practice, to rehearse.  It's not their thing.  Um, when I was a kid, I was only eight or nine years old. My dad had a guitar and as soon as I picked it up, I had no idea what I was doing and I would just sit there and pick on one spring,  just making that kind of sound. I'm sure I drove my parents nuts  sitting in the den doing that, but I would fall asleep every night. My dad would have to take his guitar off me and carry me into bed. I would never put the thing down. I just never did.
12:21And I'm not saying I was a musician. I'm just saying for some reason I was enamored with that instrument. um And if you have a kid that's showing that kind of propensity for that just can't put the guitar or the piano or whatever it is. um And they would rather do that than go hang out outside with their buddies three days a week. Then you invest in that child. Then it's worthwhile.  You don't have to ask. You'll know. You can, you'll be able to tell.  Yeah. If you can afford it.  I are the reason.
12:50Part of the reason that I never learned to play an instrument is because I was very interested in piano. And uh we didn't have the money for a piano. We didn't have the money for any kind of piano like instrument.  guitar, I loved listening to my dad play, but  the actual fingering positions and things for that, I just couldn't figure it out. And I asked him to teach me and he tried and I failed.
13:20So that wasn't my thing. And so  if any of my kids had had any interest in an instrument, I would have moved heaven and earth to get them an opportunity to go learn  it, to have their hands on it. But none of them did. They all loved to sing. And two of them are pretty good and two of them are not. And I'm not saying which ones.  Because they all love  it.
13:46Well, yeah. And the thing is, is nobody actually has to go up and try to be a professional. They just love to sing and every once in they get to sing in the bathroom or they show up at a karaoke contest or they're hanging out with their friends singing. Who cares? But, know, I just believe that, you know, and because I'm a musician, people can say, oh yeah, well, he's going to say that. I believe that music and the arts in school is dramatically important because I think it affects brain development as opposed to not doing it. So.
14:14Yeah. And unfortunately, a lot of those programs have gone by the wayside.  Unfortunately. Yes. Unfortunately. True.  Some are coming back, but it's difficult. And I understand why they cut it, you know, but m there's plenty of studies that have shown the differences in development of kids who were exposed to arts  versus those who have not. m So it's a pretty well documented thing at this point. So I would like to see it stay around. Obviously I'm biased.
14:44Um, cause I think, uh, if you're involved in the arts, whether it's music or painting or cooking or I don't care what it, you know, whatever it is, but being involved in the arts, some metal shop, woodshop, build something, whatever you, like you said, use your hands. Um, I really think that the whole thing about, know, go get a master's degree at college. I think you really need to learn how to do something, you know, having some skills matters, think.
15:10Well, the thing that that makes me crazy is the school that my kids went to. They well, Minnesota in general requires kids to take pre-calculus and trigonometry for their senior year. they but a lot of schools don't have music classes anymore. And I'm like, people, music and math go hand in hand. Why? get rid of music? Well, see, and you understand that because, again, as an engineer, I make that connection.
15:40Music is math and vice versa, right? mean, music is rhythmic. So there's  math to that and music is melodies and tones and harmonies and harmonics and there's math to that. So  yeah, it's much more integrated than people think. But, but if you don't expose people to one without the other, I think you only got half the picture. So. Yeah. And from my listeners who don't know what harmonics are.
16:10I could try to explain it and I would fail miserably. I know what it is because I hear them all the time in everything. But can you explain harmonics?  Well, if you play a fundamental note, that note, let's say we'll use a guitar string that guitar string is vibrating at some frequencies and you hear it and you pluck the note and it goes  and it plays some note.  That note is not just simply that note at that frequency.
16:39um That string also has other vibrations that are occurring inside of that note, which are creating  even in odd order, what's called harmonic notes above that.  And so  what sounds like a simple single note isn't necessarily a simple single note, but it's an enriched note that has harmonic content to it, which is if you've ever heard a really good, really good band or uh Motown singers or whatever.
17:08and they start seeing harmony, right? And so you have somebody singing the root, somebody singing the third and the fifth and all this kind of thing. You hear this beautiful harmony. Most notes on most instruments, even on a piano, when you press a key, it's not a single string. Most pianos, every key, there's three strings to that note.  So it's creating harmonics, which creates a richness to the tone. And when they all stack up, like on an instrument, like a guitar, you got six strings, you strum a full six string chord.
17:37There's not just six individual notes playing. There's hundreds of harmonies and harmonics that are going on, which is where all that rich tonality comes from.  And which is why I love guitar music.  other thing with harmonics is you people hear harmonics in everything everywhere.  We have a Tulane highway out in front of our house and  it's a long straightaway. So people tear through here like motorcycles love our road.
18:07Yeah.  And the things that I pick up on, my husband will never hear because his ears aren't good and he's not  attuned this way. But I hear a certain kind of  semi coming down the road and I'm like, oh, that's that one that works for whoever they have their name on the door. And he's like, how do you know that? And I'm like, because I can hear it. I know what it is.  And ceiling fans have harmonics.  Oh, it's us fans. I can't.
18:37I can't be in a room with an exhaust fan and not hear stuff that no one else is hearing and they think I'm crazy. And you're not. And what you're hearing is if a simple fan is running in the room, let's say a ceiling fan,  those blades are whipping around and they're making a little like a paddle noise. That's what that is. But because that air is being whipped and it rolls over the edges of the fan tips, that creates a different fundamental tone than the fan's blade itself.
19:04So you're hearing the combination of all that stuff, which is what creates the sound of the fan. That's why it's almost like fingerprints. That's why when that truck's coming down a road or a car comes down the road and you just know, hey, I've heard that car yesterday. It's a Mustang. I just know what it is. That's why it's not because it makes a single tone. Even the tires rolling down the road aren't a single tone. It's a if you listen to the hiss of tires coming down the road, it's a combination of harmonics.
19:31that creates sort of a fingerprint sound and some people aren't tuned into it, but your brain definitely is. So that's why you hear that. And that's why you go, oh, I know what the truck is.  You have critical hearing  and it matters. It's fascinating. And it's also incredibly irritating because when I say, you hear that half the people I say it to go, what? There's no sound here. And I'm like, ha,  you're wrong.
19:57Yeah, and so the best thing to do is not even argue the point. Just  enjoy the fact that you can hear that. Oh,  I. I wish I had sort of a half off switch for my ears because  trying to filter sound sometimes is almost impossible for me. um And then harmonies themselves, like when two people sing together. Yeah, a lot of people don't know that when they sing together, there's a third voice that's the third third.
20:26level it's created or three people sing together it's like six  it's it's exponential right yes and again that's that harmonic structure we talked about where a single note isn't necessarily a single note so if i'm singing a note or you're singing a note there's other harmonies in there  i don't mean sung harmonies like two people singing together but harmonic structure that note as your vocal cords  vibrate they're not just creating a single note but there's
20:54higher pitches and lower pitches involved in that note. So now your voice is maybe creating a half dozen different harmonics, which is called majors and minors or thirds and fifths all this kind of thing. Now you get two people singing together. So you've just basically doubled the whole thing. So you put three singers together. Now you got what 18 different sounds that are coming out of three people, which doesn't initially sound like all that. But when you go, why does that sound so rich? That's why it's, it's all that sort of
21:22Because the harmonics that are in voices or guitar strings or a piano note when you hit it are  basically subtle. They're not as loud as the primary, the fundamental note. So it's underneath. And so what happens is you get three people singing together. You know, they're singing a simple three-part harmony, but all that harmonic structure and all three of those voices and all those vocal chords is creating this really big rich tone. And that's where when you hear a band that I don't care whether you're Motown, Country, whatever,
21:52When you hear people that are singing like that, that really know how to sing harmonies, that's when you go, oh my God, it just sounds amazing. And that's fine. Yeah. And harmonics are the thing that make people feel something when they listen to it.  Absolutely. Yes. And a lot of people can't define what it is. just go, God, did you hear those guys singing? It was amazing. Yeah. Well, that's where it comes from.
22:17Yeah, and that brings us back to the music on the homestead because a lot of farmers who have cows will have a radio playing in the barn all the time because it calms the cows down. Absolutely. And so there's a good reason to have music on the homestead. um Music is entertainment. You know, you have a couple of friends over, you got a fire going outside, you sit down around the fire, somebody brings a guitar and everybody has fun singing or listening. Yeah.
22:48And even people that don't know how to sing love to do it. So you know what? Don't, don't criticize it. If  they can't sing on key, who cares? Let them have fun. Um, that's the thing about it. There's no wrong. Just, just sing louder than they do and then you can't hear them. Right.  Yes.  Very true. ah Uh,  it is  a pretty amazing thing.  Um,  uh, not just music for music say, but when you look at the
23:18sort of the mechanics behind all of it.  It starts to make sense and you understand it because you can hear it. um And so  that's a lot of what creates  the sort of unexplainable stuff that people wonder about music. Why does it sound like that? How come it, how can it  even,  even tempos? m You'll notice that some people, and this has been studied even in animals um have what I call
23:46an intrinsic or an inherent tempo. Some people like ballads, some people like a little bit faster songs. They don't know why. They personally don't know why. But that's why you'll see a lot of pop music is done right at 90 beats per minute, because that tends to be the sweet spot for people listen to pop music. Personally, I like people laugh at me because I'm 70 years old, but I still like hard rock and heavy metal music because it rips, it tears. As a guitarist, it's kind of a
24:15default for me, but and I like up tempo blues and things like that. And some people listen to that go, oh my God, that's horrible. How can you listen to that? I would rather listen to something calming and relaxing. If I listen to a slow ballad after about the third one, I'm ready to like get my car and go 100 miles an hour down the freeway. I'm going nuts. So everybody has even an intrinsic or an inherent tempo and groove and feel. And they've proved this even with animals. Elephants sway to exactly one half their heart rate.
24:45when they want to relax. I mean, it's all connected.  People  don't think about that,  but there's sort of science behind all of this stuff.  And so  some people like more melancholy songs. Some people like faster songs and slower songs. They don't necessarily know why, but it's really kind of in your DNA and in your biology,  why that stuff works. Yeah. I also think it's what you're exposed to as a child, as a young child.
25:14Because I really did like very old country songs like Appalachian old  because my dad would play guitar and he would sing songs like  Tom Dooley and songs like that. Hang down your head Tom Dooley. And that's that's very, very old Appalachian ish country music. And and then every time we would go somewhere, he would have the local country radio station on. And this was in the.
25:43late 70s, early 80s, because that's when I started really remembering music, you know, paying attention. And  I didn't like that particular time frame for country music. And I would be like, can't we listen to pop? he'd be like,  when you have your driver's license, you get to choose radio station. Like, oh, fine. So for me, country music was really fun in the  90s. I really liked what was coming out in the  90s. Now I listen to a country station for half an hour the other day  in the car.
26:13And I was like, what is this crap? This is not  music. What is going on? eh Well, yeah, it's see, know,  and people that actually listen and pay attention or  hear these things.  And like back when Shania Twain came out, Mutt Lang, producer and all this kind of stuff, you know, it kind of became rock and roll with a fiddle  or steel guitar. And that's OK. I mean, I like that kind of stuff, too, because again.
26:37it, most of it's up tempo and groove. And so I like it up tempo, whatever. Okay. People like, Oh, that's just pop with a fiddle. Okay. Maybe it is, but I still, it's, it still moves me when I'm driving down the road in the car, as opposed to listening to some really grindy old ballad. Um, but now there's a big movement of foot. Um, and it's a subtle kind of thing, but there are many, and this includes Jen's ears, believe it or not. So there's still hope for the world. Welcome. We can't hear.
27:06classic country because it's this sure isn't it. So now there's this big movement of foot around the 18 to 25 year olds that are going. You know what? What happened to that Clint Black stuff and and that you know all that sort of famous artists that they're listening to. um And so now there's a big movement of foot and I've got. I've got a new client in my studio right now. Who was in Nashville for 20 years and he took a break.
27:33And now he's just coming back and kind of starting his career over again. He's 40 years old. He is hardcore redneck old school country. So I developed a couple of music tracks for him for some lyrics he had written.  And I sent him to him and he goes, that's a bit too rock and roll.  Because that's, that's my DNA.  So I had to sit down and try to come up with some really sort of classic hardcore country music tracks for us to put these songs together. And he fell in love with
28:04Now here's a guy, four years old. He's been around this business for a while. He doesn't want to play all that pop country stuff. wants to that. Like you're talking about that really old school, what we call gut bucket country. That's what he likes. Right. And that's what he wants to do. And that's how he's promoting himself on his website is old school, Johnny little, you know, a classic country. Okay. That's cool. There's a big movement of foot now for people to say, we miss that music. We'd like to hear more of it. So it's kind of cool. Yeah.
28:33Awesome. I can't wait to see something on your Facebook page about it. um So we have like eight minutes left. Where can people find you if they want to if they want to get in contact? Well, yeah, probably on my Facebook page is just Carrie Adams.  K.E.R.Y. um I used to have a website. I took it down because I have more than enough work as a retired guy now. I don't need any more artists.  That sounds terrible, but  I have plenty of work in my studio.
29:00Um, so that's good. basically on Facebook page, which cracks me up. keep threatening to quit Facebook every year, but the problem is, I, there's so much,  um, so there's so many artists that have found me through there that, that if I could get rid of it tomorrow, I probably would, but there's people still find me on there. So I just leave it up.  Um, and like I said, I got rid of my, my, uh, webpage and all that stuff for my studio simply because I had enough work and I didn't need to sort of be throwing the net out there anymore.
29:29So again, Carrie Adams on Facebook, um, you'll see posts on there. put stuff up there about the artists I'm working with. And a lot of times I, if I'm bored, I come down here in the studio and I come up with a little two minute, uh, instrumental track and I throw it up on there just for people to listen to for free. So, my dad would call that noodling on the guitar. Yeah. So noodling is fun. If you can noodle and I've got.
29:56literally hundreds of noodling tracks. So yeah, it's what I do in my life now and I enjoy it.  Awesome.  Kerry, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me about music because I don't think people know as much as they think they might know about it. And there were things that I didn't know either until I started looking into it. So thank you for your time. Thank you very much and have a day.  You too. Bye.
 

Matt The Garden Guy

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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters.  I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking with Matt at Matt  the Garden Guy in Wisconsin. Good morning, Matt. How are you? Hey, good. How you been? I'm good.  Is the weather any improved in Wisconsin today?  I mean, it's been raining like crazy. Fortunately, all that rain that hit Milwaukee and that flooding missed me, but
00:28We've been getting rain like crazy every day and you know the bugs are destroying everything but I think the rain is holding off now. I woke up this morning and the sun was actually out and I was like, oh hello! Nice of you to stop in! It's not here yet, it's still cloudy and 70, I'm just still waiting for it to rain again but yeah we need the sun badly. Yeah, my husband dumped out the uh...
00:56the rain gauge last night and he came in and he said, we got six and a half inches of rain from Saturday until yesterday. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. It's been terrible. I don't want to engage. Sorry. My range actually broke, so I got to try to fix it. So I'm like getting no nothing coming in, but yeah, you don't have any empirical data to work with.
01:22I know. I'm kind of like, need to know how much rain I got, but it's a lot. That's all I got to say. Yeah. Last summer we had a terrible, horrible, no good growing season.  this year it started out pretty good, but with all the rain  and it's been so hot that we haven't been able to keep on.  Our garden is slowly giving up the ghost. And I'm like,  second year in a row, next year better.
01:50We kind of, we kind of started out the same way.  um,  we, we, planted everything, but then we got some weird cold weather and then some really hot weather.  like, I planted a bunch of beets and carrots and all of that and it came up, but then didn't do anything.  but then like it started to, sorry, reseeded and then it started exploding. like I try to get.
02:18I tried to do at least three harvests a year. So I started early as possible and, know, cover it up with frost blankets or things like that. And this year we're only going to get probably two. So, but that's okay. Um, my husband planted over 250 tomato plants. Whoa. And we thought we were going to be rolling in, in tomatoes by now, but because of all the rain and because it's so hot, we're starting to get the blight already.
02:47And once that happens, we're screwed.  so,  and so, um, yeah, our hopes for raking in some money on tomato sales this year are now  kind of down the tubes too. And I'm like,  are you sure we're in the right gardening thing? You know, it's funny you say tomatoes. So like my wife looked at me, I think earlier, I know we were at our friend's house over the weekend and she's like, yeah, we don't have a lot of tomatoes. said, um,
03:13We cut down our crop by half.  So last year we had 10 plants. only got, well, we got six this year. She's like, Oh, that makes sense. Because like  our, our like, I don't know, my, my, my dream or whatever last couple of years is really,  you know, know, canning my stuff and then going downstairs and getting it. like that's been consuming all of our.
03:37tomatoes and all that. But I also want to sell stuff too, but we're not able to do that because we just don't have enough plants outside right now. yeah, it was funny when you say that, you you guys have that many and I'm like, yeah, we had the same conversation, but it was the opposite.  We didn't plant as many as we normally do. And then my wife is like, well, how can we not have any tomatoes? Well, because I cut it in half almost because you asked me to.  It's really hard gardening with your spouse.
04:07And I use the term gardening loosely because I'm not the gardener.  husband. But I help him. I help him plan and I help him  with, you know, he'll say, I'm thinking about getting this variety. I look it up and find out what's required. And I tell him, and then we make a decision  together. he's the, he's the boots on the ground guy and I'm the logistical planning part. So she does all of our harvesting.
04:36because so I'm,  I'm colorblind. So for me, it's hard to really tell when those tomatoes are really ready to pull.  I just, I just gave up. she does all the harvesting, but she lets, you know, the planning, the planting, the,  know,  I've been trying to take on the role of helping like store the stuff or do something with it. Cause a lot of times she was just cutting them up and freezing it. like, we got to look at other ways, but yeah, I like how
05:05I like how  spouses and that do get involved. For the most part, my wife likes gardening, but she can care less. She just wants to reap the benefits of the garden, I guess I would say.  It's like I told my husband when we bought this place five years ago. I said, I am not going to be the one out there on my hands and knees with gardening gloves on doing the stuff. That's not my jam.  And he said, that's fine. And I said, but I will cook or help preserve anything you bring in. And he was like, deal.
05:35So we kind of jumped into the middle of this. Tell me how you got into gardening. Wow, man. Well, I started gardening probably about when I was 13, maybe 12, I don't know. So way back then, grandma lived with us and she'd always garden and I like, I want to try this. you know, I started doing that and then...
06:01When I lived with my parents, I always had a small garden outside and then it just…
06:11It just evolved to where it is now. So I I started at a young age.  And I have  two daughters  and I try to instill that into them too. Like right now, my daughter,  my oldest daughter, she's eight,  goes on nine in January, but  she grabbed some beans and she sprouted them and she's like, I want to plant these in the garden.
06:39But yeah,  I started, you know, early teenager and just always had a garden and then,  um, just expanded and expanded to where is right now. It's taken up about half of my backyard right now.  um, you know, we, we always had people, you know, ask me, how do you garden or what do you do with everything?  um, you know, that's really what made me start Matt, the garden guy as well. Like,
07:09We had some, we had some friends come over and they're like, Oh, I want to have a garden. How do I do this? Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, well, let me, let me, let me help you out. And it just evolved from there.  That's how a lot of things evolve with the people I talked to on the podcast. They basically it's this, it's the thing from the robots movie. think it was seeing or Raleigh maybe  it's  seeing need villainy. Yeah. Yeah.
07:34Yeah, that's what I get a lot of with the people I talk to and it's fantastic. I love that people are so  generous and willing to give of their time and their knowledge.  It's really great because  the world is kind of a topsy-turvy place right now. So it's great that I get to talk to people who are so positive.  I also really like gardening too because to be honest, I am not a fan of what
08:05the world is doing with our food.  And, you know, where I live, can't have, I can't have livestock. I'd have to move to have livestock. And  I would love to have livestock, but I'm not moving. My house is already halfway paid off. I don't owe that much on it. So I'm not moving. So I'm sticking with, you know, fruits and vegetables  and we grow a lot. So,  you know, the biggest thing, again, my driving factor too around
08:33This is,  you know, teaching people how to grow the food that they eat so that they don't have to consume food full of chemicals. that, that, that's a, that might be a touchy subject for some people, but that's what I stand by. you know, there's other ways  to handle it. Now it's a lot of work, but, but yeah, that's just, that's another reason why we have a very large garden because we want to
09:02consume the food that we're growing and we know what's in it end of the day. Yes, the only ingredient in a tomato should be a tomato.  Exactly. Like we don't need to learn the other plastic or whatever junk they put on top of it to preserve it. Right. Yep. Absolutely.  And, as for livestock, um, my husband  said to me this morning, as I'm drinking my coffee and waking up, he's already had a
09:32cups into him. says, remember I mentioned that I might want to look into getting meat chickens and like, yes. And he said, I've been doing some research and I was like, uh-huh. And he said, it'll cost us between two and $5 per chick. It takes eight weeks for them to be ready for butcher. And I was like, okay. And he's telling me all the things that he found out. And I said, here's my only issue.
10:02And he said,  I said,  are we going to actually be able to sell the butcher's? Because  once you get through, my friend calls it tic-tac-titioning, know, the book work, the numbers, the math on the cost. said, we're probably looking at $20 a bird at least.  I said, do you think people will pay that? And he was like, well, if they want really good help.
10:32chicken, then yes.  My did that. She grew chickens and she was trying to sell them. And it's just in our area, nobody's going to spend 20 bucks at chicken. Yeah.  No. So, you know, that whole chicken conversation to my buddy, he lived outside of town and he's got about an acre and he's like, well, I'm going to, I'm thinking about growing some chickens. said, well, can I do it with you? So maybe there's a
11:01future of chicken growing, not in my house, but on my buddy's lot.  going in together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we're purely doing it just,  I'm not in it. I'm not in this to sell things. I'm just in it to, put stuff in my body that I'm consuming or what I'm, you know, that I'm growing. Yes. Yes, absolutely. And we would keep some of the chickens for our freezers clearly, but
11:28But he's talking about getting at least a hundred chicks. And I'm like, um, we don't have room for eight, for a hundred  chickens in our freezers right now.  And also,  I mean,  there are people in our area who probably would pay that kind of money for a chicken that was raised ethically and fed  on good things and is going to be good for them to eat. But  I am very hesitant to spend the money to not make it back.
11:58And so, and so, um, I think that could go ahead. Sorry. So for anybody local who's listening local to me, um, email me or message me or whatever, and let me know if you would be interested in that price point, because then I might have some, some data to give back to the husband on this idea. I think ultimately that's what we need is data because like, you know, you probably could, somebody might buy one, you know, here or there, but you need people that are going to buy them, you know,
12:28every couple weeks.  yeah. Maybe you're right. Maybe the market is out there and we're just kind of shooting from the hip. No, this ain't gonna work, but maybe it will work. Yeah, gotta collect some data. Well, I've been hearing an awful lot about people buying chicken at the grocery stores and the chicken is gross. Like,  it's stringy and it looks weird and it doesn't look like chicken is supposed to look and then it doesn't taste right. And  if that's true,
12:56And I don't even know what chicken is going for right now at the grocery store. But  if that's true, they might be willing to pay a little more for chicken that's actually chicken. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. Good idea.  But anyway, you're not doing livestock. No, but I'll follow along and listen to you. If you ever get that route, let me know because I am interested in understanding more about livestock. I can't do it here, but my buddy wants to do it. So.
13:23Yeah. And the thing is it's not hard to do, but it's an investment just like anything is. Yeah. And I don't want to throw good money after bad. that the right phrase? It is. I'm okay with it. Yeah. So, but anyway, so do you teach gardening? What do mean teach gardening? Like, one-on-one or what do you mean teach gardening? I know, I know you have the YouTube channel and you have videos there.
13:53So, so my, the math, the gardening guy, the whole purpose of math, the garden guy is to help people grow the food that they eat. And that's my mission.  Um, and the only way to do that is yes, to teach people.  I have, I have YouTube. know, I have Facebook, Instagram and do a little bit on tick tock, but not a lot.  Um, I do have a website, Matthew garden guy.  And  my, my, my hope is to build that out where I have courses.  Um, so.
14:23Like some courses  that I'm actively working on  is,  you know, preserving  and putting it more towards around like canning.  I know canning, some people are scared to do it or just don't know what to do. And that's how I was a couple of years ago. So, you know, I'm just going to take my knowledge and put it into some  courses  and post them on my website.
14:48Another thing that I do a lot in the wintertime. So obviously I'm in Wisconsin. I think you're in Minnesota, right? Yes. Okay. So we get the cold. So  how do you grow all year long?  That's my, that's my, that's my plan right now. So,  um, I did that last year. I grew stuff downstairs.  Um, the thing that I grew a lot was bok choy  and some greens like that. So,  so teaching people, um, one of my, one of my,
15:18you know, past this year,  winter time  is going to be, you know, creating some courses on how to do indoor gardening. So  I think  all of my videos  are geared around teaching people,  you know, how do you do things? And I focus on one specific area in all of my videos.  so, and it kind of goes in like,
15:44spurts of what I'm actively doing. So right now, again, there's a lot of canning going on. I'm showing people in, you know, quick videos on how to can, but the goal is to have these on my website and have things in like a blog format where you can read it  and then you can watch the same video that's attached to the content that you're reading.  So that's kind of the structure that I'm doing when I'm creating these videos and stuff like that.
16:13So  that's fabulous. love it.  Um, you,  the thing with growing stuff inside, we, we start our seedlings inside every year at the end of February because  most things that we're going to put in the garden require eight to 10 weeks before we can put them outside anyway. They're not ready for transplant.  But, uh,  the thing that we've learned is that, um, radishes don't need bugs to produce radishes. They don't need to be pollinated. Nope.
16:42And lettuces don't and chard doesn't and spinach doesn't. And those are the kinds of things that you want in the wintertime. You want fresh greens. Correct.  And we just put seedling trays on our kitchen table and we have grow light, a  long grow light that we hang from our  light fixture above our kitchen table.  And so if we wanted to, we could grow radishes, we could grow carrots if we had a deep enough container.
17:08We've grown lettuces  anytime during the year because they just love being inside because they're protected.  Yeah. You know, you can grow a lot of things inside.  know,  one of the things that we're talking about, you know, indoor gardening and that,  I experimented with  dwarf cherries over this last winter. Yeah. Sorry, cherry tomatoes.
17:37You know, they're about a foot tall and they produce tomatoes. So you can, you know, even tomatoes, can grow those inside. You just might have to self pollinate them or just, you know, tap the flowers a little bit. yeah, there's a lot of things you can grow inside. Now it's just how big of an area or investment do you want to do? know, but yeah, all the greens. Yeah, no problem. Like I said, I grew bok choy inside.
18:06in the basement or the winter time. And we were pulling bok choy and eating it in our ramen soup or, you know, stir fries all winter long. Yep. And it's such a pretty little plant. I mean, it's so nice to have a thing that's green. That's a new growing in the middle of winter. And that's really, that's my biggest focus this winter time. If I'm talking about garden is, you know, I'm going to grow the things that I know can grow, but I'm going to experiment with other things and I'm going to document it and I'm going to teach people and
18:36You know, I'm going to throw that out on my website, you know, Matt, the garden guy dot com and put them out there. Like I have a section just for indoor gardening and all of my stuff, all of my courses, everything is free. I'm not really into this to make a buck. My whole deal is helping people grow the food that they eat. So, know, you go on my website, there'll be, you know, there'll be, there'll be the content out there. Um, you know, one thing with my website too, I don't bombard you with a bunch of ad pop-ups and all of that.
19:06Like I know,  um, you know, kind of switching gears a little bit, no, we do a lot of things. We do a lot of cooking with our food. And one thing that always  annoyed me is when I'd go to a website and look for a recipe and I'd scroll halfway down and I'd get this pop up in my face and I couldn't read the recipe and I ended up just abandoning it and just, you know, got rid of it.  Um, we decided not to do that when we, when we made our website. So, you know, there might be a couple of things on the side, but nothing will pop up in your face to say, Hey, do this.
19:36or, look at this ad. um, well, yeah,  the, the, um, indoor gardening, sorry, jumping back to that.  apologize. I jump around all the, all the time, but I live with one like that.  Indoor gardening.  A lot of, a lot of people are interested about it. Hey, what is this? What can we do? So  yeah, I'm really going to focus on indoor gardening, like training and teaching more people.  There's a lot of things that you used to talk about grow lights. Well,
20:06There are specific grow lights and the height above the plants and all of that. There is a science and if people want to put time into it, will, I'm willing to put the time and effort into teaching people.  Um, the other thing that a lot of people don't know when you, when you grow inside is that you need to have a small fan that can grow across plants because  if you don't, they get leggy and they fall over and they die because they have any, any reason to support themselves.
20:35100%. And you know, I had a, I had another issue. like when I'm growing downstairs, like my basement is colder. So it's like, you know, mid sixties. I have them growing in, you know, the those indoor greenhouses. So I got the fan, but then I also have an issue with a massive amount of humidity. So I'm dealing with humidity and all of that too. So I really got to, I don't know. I might build an area downstairs. That's kind of.
21:04blocked off and that has some, you know, ways to get the humidity out. But yeah, there's a lot of different things for indoor gardening and people might just be, Hey, you're nuts. That's way too much work. First of all, yes, I am nuts. And second of all, it's a winter time. What else am I going to do? Yeah, exactly. The winters in the Northern tier States are long and you will go insane if you don't have something to do. A hundred percent. People are like, well, get outside. Well, sometimes you can't when it's negative 50 and
21:34Burn your face off. Yeah. Like that week in January we had last Wednesday. was real fun.  I was going to say we actually put up a quote unquote heated greenhouse two Mays ago. Nice. And the reason I say quote unquote is because  it's not exactly heated.  we have the, I don't know what the hell  they're called. The containers that people ship liquid in, the
22:05Oh, there's a name for them. Five gallon or 50 gallon drum  or no, they're like a they're like a cube and they're they're in. no idea. They're in a metal cage and I forget this name all the time. But anyway,  we put water in them and the sun heats them up and then they disperse the heat. All right. right.  And that did pretty well until we got below zero temps. That's the problem. Yeah. So like I have have a  I have a  house outside. So
22:34Right. It's a, my hoop house is,  um, eight feet, eight feet wide and 14 feet long.  And it's just got plastic over it. So  it's great until the sun goes away.  The sun goes away.  It, you know,  it gets really cold in there. It's, it's the same temperature as it is outside as it is inside. Yeah. But it does, but you don't get those wind chills in there. So, you know,
23:02You got a 12 mile an hour wind, you're not going to get that temperature inside. yeah, they're, they're. Heated stuff, right? I've always been trying to find different things to eat it. That water drum thing you're talking about might work. It does, but it doesn't work when it's, when it's a really long stretch. the other issue is, is if we have three or four days where it's not sunny.
23:31that water doesn't stay warm. It doesn't absorb the heat from the sun.  So  we call it the heated greenhouse because it extends our growing season into December.  And  we have a place now for the baby plants to go out to sooner in the spring because it's warm enough in March instead of April.  Same thing I do with the hoop house.  I grow into it as long as I can.
23:59And I start as early as I can. you know, if we get a couple extra weeks, perfect.  And for us, the big deal is that we can have a place to put all of our seedlings in the spring because otherwise  we would have seedlings on our kitchen table for three months. And  sometimes I actually do like to use my kitchen table for other things. Well, when you grow 200 tomato plants, that's a lot. That's crazy. That's awesome. I love it.
24:28Yeah. And the reason he planted so many tomato plants is because last year he planted three times. And I think we maybe can 30 pints of tomato sauce out of the tomatoes we did manage to get last year. So he over planted this year. Makes sense to me. I probably would done the same thing. Yeah. And  we're starting to learn that no matter what we do,  something is going to go right and something is going to go wrong in the same season. Exactly. You just got to get over that and just expect it.
24:58And you got to pivot and, this isn't going to work this year, you know, and, and  deal with, or,  you know, work with what you got right now. But yeah, I think that's what gardening is. just gotta, you gotta be able to adapt. A lot of people say, well, it's supposed to be a stress relief. What is just don't let it get to you. Just, you know, that's how I de-stress. I go outside and work in my garden.  Gardening is God's way of teaching you acceptance and patience.  100%.
25:27Second thing is having kids, in my opinion. Oh, same thing. Raising kids is gardening. 100%. You're just gardening a human, that's all. Yep, yep, yep. Okay, we've got like four minutes left. Where can people find you, Matt? Yeah, mattthegardenguy.com. Matt the gardening guy, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. Don't do a lot of TikTok, but I'm out there. You know, yeah, pretty much all those platforms.
25:57where you can get me. if people have questions, can they just like DM you or email you? Yep. DM me. You can email me. It's mattthegardenguy at outlook.com. Best thing is just to go, you go on my website, you can send me a message or just go on social media and send me a message. I encourage people to message me. I love helping people. So don't be afraid. Shoot me a message. Awesome. I love that you are such a giving heart. And again,
26:25People on my podcast do this all the time and I'm just so  thankful that you guys come and talk to me and share your knowledge. Yeah. Happy to do that. Happy to  be on this podcast. I'm  really  interested in, you know, seeing how those chickens work out for you. So  let me know when you get something out there.  If they work out. Yeah. If we do it.  All right. As always, people can find me at a tinyhomesteadpodcast.com.
26:53Matt, thank you for your time. hope you have a great day.  And to my listeners, thanks for listening. Keep coming back for more.
 

Family Tree Food & Stories

Today I'm talking with Nancy and Sylvia at Family Tree Food & Stories. You can follow on Facebook as well.
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00:01Today I'm talking with Nancy May and Sylvia Lovely. What a wonderful last name. Thank you. Family Tree Food and Stories.  Sylvia is in Kentucky. Kentucky, you got it. Nancy is in Florida. There you go. So good morning ladies. How are you?  Good morning to you and so good to be with you. I love your voice.  Thank Doing good. Yeah. Thank you.
00:28I always feel weird when people say that because I don't hear it the way other people hear it, but that is totally fine. And what a lovely compliment. Thank you. Sure.  All right. So what's the weather like in Florida, Nancy?  It is warm and a little sticky. It's August,  but that said, we have  lovely air conditioning inside. So the weather inside is beautiful.  It's sunny outside.  And what's the weather like in Kentucky, Sylvia?
00:54I might say a big ditto. It's about 95. It's very hot. The weather's supposed to break. I wish I was in Minnesota where my son lives in Duluth. It'd be a little cooler. He says it's cooler up there. But it's coming our way. So that's good news. Yes. Fall is definitely coming. I heard geese honking the other day and our trees are just starting. The maples are just starting to change. Wow. That's early.
01:20And it's been cooler at night. mean, the last couple of nights it's been warm because we've had rain and thunderstorms, but  it's coming. And I'm not sad to see the summer go. It has been so hot and so muggy here.  That's what Ross says too, up in Duluth.  But you're around the Minneapolis St. Paul area. Is that where you are? I am an hour southwest of Minneapolis.  Okay. All right.
01:44Yep. I am where the Jolly Green Giant started out. yeah, that's right. how cool. That's right.  We did some work on that, didn't we, Nancy? It's been several episodes ago. And frozen foods for sure. Yeah, exactly. ho ho,  Green Giant.  Well, you just gave me a perfect opening. Tell me about yourselves and what you guys do. All right, Nancy, you want to go first?  Sure. So  I'm Nancy May  and  I'm the co-host of
02:13Family Tree Food and Stories podcast. And we are also the co-author of a book called My Family Tree Food and Stories, which is a book that shows you how to take all your family recipes or the recipes that you love, whether it's family or not, and write the stories related to the recipes. Some are good, some are like, yeah, you know, those flops actually make good stories and good fodder for future conversations too.  And there's always a way to fix a recipe and a meal. But let  me see.
02:42I am not the best cook in the world, but I keep trying  and  that's half the fun. But food is an outlet to be creative and  bring family and friends together at the table. In fact, we just had a nice  gathering of some friends at our home the other night and somebody said,  oh, well, I don't cook at home for friends. Why not? Because I much rather do that than meet somebody at a restaurant because that way you actually know who they are as people in your home and whether you want to invite them back or not.
03:11So that's kind of our,  we like them or do we not like them?  And let me piggyback onto that.  I'll tell how we came together, Nancy. That could be an interesting thing. How did Florida marry Kentucky?  We came together because of a local podcaster here.
03:31in Lexington, Kentucky, which is where I am based. And he introduced us in the rest of his history. We just started clicking together. I mean, I guess that's kind of the best word for it. We compliment each other beautifully. I don't cook. I so admire, I own a restaurant, Azura Restaurant and Patio here in Lexington. It's high-end restaurant, lots of seafood, steak, and that kind of thing serves the local racetrack. And that's where
03:59My husband and I love the community of the restaurant.  That's why we got into it. The stories that come in a restaurant and come together  are just amazing. So I've enjoyed my journey with Nancy.  We are coming up on a year, I guess, of our podcast. And our book has been out there for a little more than a year. So yeah, real exciting. I love it. Congratulations on almost a year. And what's the book? What's the name of the book? It's called My Family, Tree Food and Stories.
04:26And it's on Amazon and it's a  journal slash memory book really of being able to look at your family history in your trees.  And really how do you pair those stories around  meals that you had with grandma or grandpa or mom or dad or your sister or brother or even just friends who have become part of your family.  And you put your history together in  the book from appetizers on through to desserts and
04:55even the scoops along the way.  I actually teach storytelling for the Carnegie Center. I'm kind of a weird person. I'm a lawyer by profession.  am a storyteller teacher  and I own a restaurant. you know, I'm the master of miscellany, I guess. But anyway,  the stories  and  we actually feature several tiny stories in the book because we want to show people and give them  instructions on how to put a story together.
05:24Because some people are just so like,  I can't do that. I don't know. And yet, you know they know. You know that they know how to have a conversation. All we have to do, Nancy and I have to do with a guest is just mention food  and they'll take off on a story. Most people think writing a story is some unique thing that not any mere mortal can do. And yet we want to show them that they can. So we did that in several small vignette stories in the book.  Nice. That is awesome.
05:54Nancy mentioned the litmus test for having people over to see if you want to have them over again.  The litmus test in my house growing up is we had a cat  and I think his name, oh, it's escaping me. We had two cats in a row that were almost the same color. The first one was Casper, but I can't remember the second. Jeff, Jeffy was the second one. J-E-F-F-Y.  And  Jeffy, if he didn't like somebody who came in the house, would
06:24would howl at them, kiss at them,  and run back to my parents' bedroom and not come back. And it was typically someone that he had not met before that we didn't know very well.  I kid you not, those people he reacted that way to did not come back to our house.  It might be a handy cat to keep around.  Yeah, he died quite a while ago. He was old. Yeah, he actually died sleeping.
06:52Yeah, he died sleeping in front of my parents wood stove in the mall.  Oh, I think he was like 15 years old.  Wow. Cats go a long time. I've got a 14 year old that's going strong.  yeah, they're, they're good. barn cat by the name of Wonder Woman.  Uh  huh. My dad actually called just Puss Puss like dad. She's got a name. Nope, Puss Puss. And that cat would ride along in his shoulders outside.
07:18Sweet. Yeah, cats live outside. lovers.  Mary, we're animal lovers, you can tell.  We are too. And I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole on cat names.  But  the  two barn cats we have right now, the males,  one is named Satan because he is pure black and  he was pure spite.  And then the second one we have, his name is Fluffy, but he will be a year old in September.  is like a...
07:46He's a golden beige and he was very long haired. And then he blew his coat this spring and he almost naked.  yeah, of course he's fluffy, still fluffy,  but is now ironic. We did an episode on Don  Food  a few episodes ago. then Nancy and I, as horrible coincidence would happen, we both lost our dogs about the same time, Nancy. Oh, I mean, it was horrible. We were both like.
08:15lost at sea.  It was awful. But we've since gotten new dogs.  Nice. Yeah. Replacements just in addition. Just in additions. Yes, absolutely. You can't replace a dog. can only add a new one.  We have a dog here. She'll be five.  Well, she's turned five on August 3rd. I keep thinking it's July. It's August.  And  she's five. And  I can't believe she's five.
08:42I keep thinking she's a puppy and she's not. She's a fully fledged adult dog now.  I know it. You just get so attached to them. Can I ask what kind? I'm sorry. I don't want to take us down that hole either. No, it's okay. She is a, well, she was told she was sold to us as a mini Australian shepherd, but I have spoken to people who raise Australian shepherds on my podcast.  They're like, there's no such thing. She's just a small Australian shepherd. She weighs about 36 pounds.  Perfect size.
09:11Yeah, perfect. And she's not crazy. She's very, very go, go, go outside, but when she comes in, she just is calm. She's fine. She just wants peace.  we picked the right dog. We got her when she was a day shy of eight weeks old.  Oh, perfect.  She was  basically, if I put my two hands together flat, know, pinkies together, she was that big in my palms.  Oh, sweet, sweet. I she was five pounds.
09:41And I'll miss that puppy. I don't miss the craziness that comes with puppies, but oh. No, I'm. We're puppies. Both Nancy and I are in the throes of that.  Yeah. Bibi of Brooksville, where we're deciding, is she really a Bibi or is she like dirt ball?  Three months. Yeah. Four months. She'll be four months in the,  on Wednesday. Oh, you  are.
10:09Yeah, I made it. I'm eight months with Ellie who's a Bernie doodle, but you know, I like the doodles because they don't shed  You guys are brave women because I don't want another puppy when Maggie goes I want to get I want to adopt a dog because I don't want to go through the velociraptor stage where they chew on it Oh, absolutely, and they all have their own diet mine loves paper. She chews up paper
10:36So far no shoes, but I just said that and that means she'll get shoes on it next but they have interesting diets when they're puppies  Yes, they do and they will destroy anything within their reach even something that might kill them. So that's I don't want puppy. the older dog right now. Yeah  Yeah, I don't want a puppy again. It was really fun. I'm glad I had the experience but I'm I'm good on puppies Okay, so we went way down the rabbit hole on animals. That's okay. I love animals, too
11:06But  you were also saying about family traditions and memories that food brings back. And I've  shared a couple of times on the podcast about certain things that I really think of when I think of cooking with my grandma. And she used to make these amazing mincemeat pies with real venison, like from the deer that my grandpa or my dad shot. And  when she got done, she would always have extra pie dough left.
11:33and she made really nice preserves. And so she would let my sister and I work with her after she got the pies put together and she'd roll out the dough and she'd give us a hunk, you know, a ball. she'd say, she'd say, put your thumb right in the middle of it on the pan and press down. Uh One of my favorites. she put like extra sugar in her dough. I don't know why, but her pie crust was always sweet. Oh, yummy.
12:01And so it was this very sweet pie crust and she'd have like blackberry preserves or strawberry or whatever. And she had these special little spoons. I don't know why they were small. I don't know what they were, but they were special. And she would let us use those to scoop the preserves into the pie dough thumbprint. And then they'd bake in the oven for however long, come out and cool down. Cause you do not want to those things right out of the oven. can burn your tongue for a month.
12:28Yeah. Sugar and butter seem to go with grandmothers and cooking. Oh yeah, absolutely. Do you still have those spoons? No, I do not. I don't know who has those spoons. Don't you regret some of the things that like that iron skill that my dad would make cornbread in? Yeah. I wish I'd saved it. Never even thought about saving it. know, George Bernard Shaw was right. Youth is wasted on the young.
12:52Yeah, You don't know that you want to save things and then by the time you realize you'd like to have them, they're already gone. I'm a saver. I'm a pack rat. And that's the hard part. When  we moved from Connecticut down to Florida, we had to get rid of so much stuff because they were going to charge us by the pound to move everything. So I told Bob and his brother that they had to get a U-Haul and all the good stuff that I wanted was going in the U-Haul.
13:21And all the stuff that maybe somebody else could break would be, you know, elsewhere. But still, like his anvil that he wants to, cause he does blacksmithing. Nope. We're not paying by the pound for that thing. But the other day as we were, I was sort of prepping and thinking about what to make for these guests. I ran across all the napkin rings.
13:42that had been passed down through the generations of our family  that we used as kids. And there was one that was always my sister's, there was one that was mine, there was one that was mom's, there was one that was dad's. We had extras for over the generations. But I said, oh my God,  we haven't used napkin rings forever. We have to start using them and cloth napkins always. I'm still like a stick, paper napkins, no, not good.
14:07But those napkin rings always told you where to sit and whose place it was. And you always felt odd sitting someplace else. Yeah. Yeah.  You know, going back to grandmothers and  memories, I remember  the first thing, West Liberty, Kentucky is where my family was  in tiny place in the middle of nowhere. And we'd get there from Ohio. We were so excited. And the first place we'd go was the cellar where for some reason my grandmother had put up, as they put it in the country, had put up grape juice.
14:37in jars, had just stacks of jars of grape juice. And I understood later that they grew grapes kind of wild in the hills of Eastern Kentucky. It interesting to me that it would have happened that way, but it was so good. You know, you're just immediately headed for the cellar. I remember in college in Virginia, in the springtime, they had the wild grapes that were growing on the side of the road. And if you drove by with the windows rolled down,
15:07you could smell those grapes. It was just amazing. I  in the fall, not the springtime,  in the fall when the grapes, but they were so rich.  So there is a thing. There is a thing then. See, that's what they told me about in the hills that that's how they found the grapes.  yeah, yeah, really good. Yeah, it smells like Walters grape juice.  Oh, sweet. My other memory is,  is the book, the story I have in the book, each Nancy and I each contributed our own story.
15:35to the book again as an illustration, but my grandmother was a teetotaler from Eastern Kentucky.  And at Christmas time, made a, we pulled a big trick on her. made a rum cake, didn't tell her what it was  and enticed her to take a big slice and she ate every bit of it and said how much she loved it.  And we were doubled over in another room laughing our  rear end off.  Yeah. Cake caper.  Cake caper. Yes.
16:04My grandmother was not a teetotaler. My grandmother made the rhubarb wine that we had for a while  and was always brought out for special occasions, births, wedding announcements, whatever. And the last bit of rhubarb wine, my dad, yep, my dad, it was a giant cardboard. My dad brought it out of this cellar and it was my dad, my mom, my uncle Ken, which was my mom's brother, Bob and I.
16:32We sort of  announced, you know, we were getting married and my uncle Ken had said, look, do you two kids want to get married? He offered to give us his wife's ring. She had passed a number of years earlier and Bob and I had just been out shopping and he pulls out of his pocket under the table and says to my uncle Ken, it look like this?  And he's like, oh my God.  And my dad's like, what's going on? Well, out came the rhubarb wine and we drank the last.
16:59batch of rhubarb wine. Oh, that's South Central. Wow.  Hey, while we're on the subject of drinking, can I tell my drinking story? Sure.  Okay.  I was in Duluth visiting with my son  and he insisted on going to the local bar in Duluth, Minnesota to watch the wild play. Now as a Minnesotan, you know what the wild is? Uh huh. That's the hockey team.
17:25And so I was like,  oh honey, it's like 10 o'clock at night. The thing starts and I'm, you know, I go to sleep.  No, mom, please go. So we went, I had my one glass of wine. It's all I ever drink is one glass of wine.  And I fell asleep. And suddenly I feel my son, mom, mom, wake up. They're kicking us out because they say you're drunk.
17:47Oh no. mom got drunk in Duluth, Minnesota. It's a great story for my friends. They love it because I'm about as boring as you get, 70 something that I am. I drink the same glass for you. Oh my goodness. Anyway, I was starting out at a bar in Duluth, Minnesota. I'm kind of proud of that. kind neat. I would wear that as badge of honor.
18:13The other story that I've told on the podcast is that my other grandma who lived in Illinois used to make Christmas candies from scratch.  we always called them Christmas candies because she made them at Christmas time and would send us a box in Maine where I grew up.  And she would make divinity, she would make potato stick candy,  she would make buckeye candy,  peanut Potato stick candy? I haven't heard of that.
18:42It's, you know, the butterscotch chips that you can get that are like chocolate chips? Yeah. It's that and potato sticks and peanuts and I don't know. Just a mixture. Yeah. It's of like a Chex Mix kind of thing. Yeah, Chex Mix. But the butterscotch chips are melted so it's all over so it's a melted thing. that sounds good. Yeah. I'm coming to your house. That's where grandma's house. So she used to make those and oh my goodness, what else?
19:12I can't remember. Oh, the coconut nougat chocolate covered bonbon candies. yeah, sure. Yeah, my mother loved those. She would make these from scratch and she would send like a 30 pound box of this to us in end of November, 1st of December for Christmas. Wow. Oh, that sounds good. I look for Nancy to try to make that potato stick thing.
19:37Yes, it's super easy. I had  a recipe, I would get it to you, but I don't have it. bet my mom has it. I will see if I can get it from her.  anyway, like,  God, I don't even remember what year it was. My grandma was staying with my parents because she had  what they called dementia, but I think it was probably Alzheimer's. I don't know if dementia and Alzheimer's are different things. But anyway, she was staying with them and my parents were in their  50s, I think, and she was in her
20:0670s, I  think.  I can't remember. But I got a bee in my bonnet that I wanted to make some of the candy and send it to my folks while grandma was still around to try it. Yeah. And I'm going to cry because it was a big deal.  I made, I didn't make divinity because  divinity is a pain in the butt to make. Yeah.  And it's very temperature sensitive and it's very hot sugar. And I was just like, I don't want to burn myself doing this,  but I made
20:35Peanut brittle, made potato stick candy, I made the buckeyes  and  the coconut bonbon thingies.  probably a couple other things. Fudge, mean chocolate fudge was a recipe I found. And I sent my parents a 40 pound piece of candy.  Oh, that's so neat. And they got it.  And my mom called and she's like,  we can't.
21:02Possibly eat all this candy. said I know give it to the neighbors give it to the people at Dad Works with  Share it and So I said did grandma try it and she said yes She tried one of the Buckeyes and I saw  and she said she didn't say anything but the look on her face was joy Was this joy?  Was she able to help you at that point to tell you know I was in Minnesota and they were in Maine so I see I see
21:29Because I have a similar story when my mother in her final illness I had forgotten that I had not learned from her how to make her prize-winning fried chicken Yeah, and I'm like, oh my gosh, it was November 19th. I remember it well It was her birthday. She died a month later and I went in and she was asleep on the bed I said mamma which was her preferred pronoun at that point. I said because of her she has two grandchildren that my boys
21:56Can you come help me make fried chicken so I can learn how? Oh, she get up, she goes into the kitchen, she puts it on the first stage. And I looked up and I looked in the kitchen and she wasn't there.  And I went back to her bedroom and she had gone back to bed. She had totally forgotten  what she was doing.  And so I never learned to make fried chicken. And that's a big regret because she had such a knack.
22:18with fried chicken. You don't cook anyway, so you've got a restaurant. Maybe that's what happened. At that day I said, no more.  I'm going to own a restaurant instead. don't know what it is with grandma's and fried chicken. The same grandma that made the Christmas candy,  she used to make fried chicken, but she would  use maple syrup in her batter.  So it was a maple syrup fried chicken. And  oh my God, we would go out and visit her.
22:47and she would have it cooking because we'd in about the time it was dinner time.  And we'd walk in the house  and all you could smell was this maple syrup smell and  chicken  skin smell.  oh my God, every time I smell something like that now I'm like, wow, that's grandma's kitchen. Yeah, brings it back. See, my grandmother was  too ill when I was a kid. She passed away when I think it was probably just the end second grade.
23:15But so I remember my grandmother in a wheelchair, yet taking her out to restaurants, my dad bringing the wheelchair up the stairs. This was before like ADA stuff and just the experience of remembering. can picture it like it was yesterday. Her sitting there and worried about the guys, you know, bringing her up the stairs, whether she was too heavy or not. Well, you know, didn't matter, right? know, they were, they were big guys. And, um,
23:41Christmas time and I think was predominantly Christmas time and then my dad's birthday. She would send cases of tomato aspect and vichyssoise to my dad because he loved it. Wow. I remember the Campbell's, one was I think Campbell's and the other was sort of some other kind of brand. But to this day, I don't think I could eat any of that stuff, but he loved it. The cans of those stuff.
24:06coming, dad in underwear. Underwear, good.  And just seeing her smiling at the end  of the dining room table when she was at our house for dinner. those are the stories that I remember my grandmother as far as  food related stuff. Yeah.  And these are the kind of stories that need to go in the book that people buy from you guys.  Yes. That's what we want.  We think this actually is a movement across the country. And you're kind of part of that too.
24:36You know, looking at kind of, you know, they say we live in the age of loneliness, epidemic  loneliness.  And we think, and there's so many movements out there moving in this direction  of cooking. I'm reading the biography of Jacques Pepin right now, because it's his 90th birthday, right, in December.  And it's fascinating story, Nancy. I told you I had gotten the book and was reading it on vacation.  And  he later in life, after his accident, near fatal accident,
25:05uh, actually founded a foundation that works with incarcerated people to teach them to cook because there's something about putting that food together and sitting around the table and conjuring up the stories. There's, again, people don't think they have those stories, but you scratch the surface and they'll start telling you stories about that time I was in an RBNB and Airbnb and the pan fell apart with a lasagna and we didn't know the pan was substandard. know, I mean, there's just.
25:33all those things that we wish people would like capture  and to enjoy food. Not necessarily even if you're not a cook. You know, we had a person on a young woman, Meredith, on our show  in an early episode that had, this is a typical story too of 40 year old in today's world. She got married, mother put together the recipe book and her handwriting gave it to her as a wedding gift. That was Meredith's dream. She got it. She said, as she put it in our show, she said the,
26:03The cookbook still exists or the recipe book still exists. The marriage ended in a year.  So she's now a divorced 40 year old  and  was, bought the book and was filling it out with her own recipes. Then she called me the other day and said, okay, it's 2.0 now.  She said, I'm having my mother write those recipes in my book, in the Family Tree Food and Stories book. And then I'll tell, I told her I would fill in the stories on the other side.  So it's like this partnership.
26:31between this 40 year old single, she has no children, single,  and  not in a typical situation in today's world.  And she's got the book and she's cherishing the book. She's catching on  and  knows she wants, again, her mother's partnership on this. It's really beautiful. It is beautiful. That's,  oh, my heart.  You know, Mary, stories don't need to be food related stories, don't need to be always shared with family. A number of back, a group of
27:01women that I knew, business women, we all decided to rent an Airbnb together and do sort of a business mastermind. And at dinner, what we ended up doing was everybody was charged with making a meal at some point  in the course of our stay together  of  their family or something that was  important to them.  And  one  of them came from a Lebanese background and she talked about how you made the meat, this particular rose water and went on.
27:31So we were able to actually learn more about one another through sharing of the food and the relationships that we had with our families, again, with one another. And we learned so much about the history and the background of each other in such a personal way. And yeah, a bottle of wine here or there doesn't help her either still. And so we were all in the same house. We were working together, but it was really fun to, to, you know, be charged with what's my job if I'm going to make Lebanese food. I don't know.
28:00So we learned a lot about each other  that weekend. I love potlucks.  love it when people get together and bring something to share. Yeah, that is,  that's what we're doing that this Saturday with our  staff of the restaurant.  Just let everybody bring something and not, you know, we'll buy  the main course and  let everybody come and kind of off the clock, have that opportunity to just have a great time.
28:30one of our customers is going to donate his house and pool. Yay. That helps, right?  But,  you know, and the whole history of food is so interesting to us because we want to be tied always to tradition. But our traditions date back as we find out, you know, Ireland is full  of  traditions and mystical kinds of things.  The  story of salmon and all the  kind of
28:57lead into all the foods that we taste today.  And I find myself, Nancy, I don't think I'd shared this with you, but I was always kind of interjecting, maybe I was being obnoxious,  something that we had learned in the course of our work  on the podcast.  You know, like maybe it was a meal at a restaurant that  was a Michelin one star  restaurant.  And we did that in La Jolla.  And I  was able to explain that because we did an episode on it. you  know, it's just
29:26It's interesting because it is, it does fill in some blanks on our traditions and how they've evolved over the years. And people, think, would find that to be interesting and  how new traditions are evolving. Yes. And it can't be a tradition if you don't start it somewhere.  Maybe you can start tomorrow. It doesn't need to start today. It can be just something you came and said, I want to do this. You know, my husband and I have this now a tradition where
29:54we started, I think it was probably about 20 years ago, we figured we'd do a Christmas party. We'd never done a Christmas party in our house before. And we said we wanted to do a gift to friends where they didn't have to cook. So we did the party, an open house. It was the Friday before Christmas Eve. So whatever Christmas Eve fell on, I said, our gift to you is that you don't have to cook. Come to our house, it's a meal, we're opening our house. And that's what we did. We did this huge spread.
30:23And so people would say, are we invited next year?  They left that year before.  like, you know, kind of like the other couple, I mean, we liked everybody who came last weekend, but there were some people who were like not invited back  for good reasons. not in our house, right? Jeffy would have sniffed them out. Oh, Jeffy, right. Well, my stepson and his wife  called my husband, the other, well,
30:53last year  in September and said, Hey, we're thinking about coming up for Thanksgiving. And they're in Nebraska.  And I was like, okay.  My husband  relays the information to me and I'm like, okay, so what am I cooking?  And my husband says, that's the beautiful part. What, do you want to cook for dessert? Because that's all you need to do. They're going to cook. Oh, That's great.  So.
31:22Um, my, my husband and his son, who basically is my son. just didn't carry him. He's the child of my heart, not my body.  did, they, uh, did the whole turkey in the, the thingy outside with the oil.  Oh, like the fried turkey. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. They did that.  And,  um, has my, my son's wife brought, she cooks stuff ahead, which is smart. You can do that.
31:51She brought some fabulous garlic butter mashed potatoes from scratch. Yummers.  And stuffing and  I  think it was green bean casserole that didn't really survive. kind of, it kind of didn't handle the weather on the drive up.  So it got mushy, but it was good.  And  she does not get to cook like this very often because she has a big family and everybody else cooks.  Oh, so she cherished it. Yeah. And she loves to cook and she doesn't get to.
32:20And I understand that because I went through the same thing when I was her age. So it was this wonderful thing that they did for us. And I made squash pie and I think I did an apple pie. remember. Oh, you'll have to try the Z-apple. Is that what you call Right. I made what's called a Zapple pie this weekend, which was on one of our shows. it basically, instead of apples, you use zucchini. I didn't really follow the recipe 100%.
32:50That's okay. I didn't even look at, oh, you got to peel it. My husband's like, you're supposed to peel the zucchini. So people don't know it's zucchini. He's like, well, it's just green apples, but it tastes pretty much like apples, believe it or not. like we just recorded an episode with one of our guests said, man, you've got balls to serve this to people. But it was good. I told Nancy that was among her many talents, balls.
33:19Last Thanksgiving, I made a plan. I went to Duluth to join my son. He's a cook and he does such a great job and he has eight kids and six of them were there. And we cooked and we had the best time over the turkey. And then he's one of these people, he cooks his own broth and, uh, you know, all of it. I mean, he's just like a back to earth or kind of thing when it comes to cooking, but we did this magnificent dinner.
33:47and we slaved all morning and we put it on the table. He has five kids under the age of eight at the time and  not one of them would touch it.  We could have killed them. But anyway,  we enjoyed eating it and he froze a bunch of it, which he's very good at. So anyway, sometimes there are mishaps too. yeah, absolutely. But  the reason I wanted to share the story about my daughter-in-law doing most of the cooking for Thanksgiving is that  when  you're the mom,
34:16You guys know,  you think that you're the one who's going to have to do all the cooking forever. And you got to make room for the other people behind you to do their thing too.  That's what Ross and Ross is a very good cook. So I'm very proud of him. don't know where he picked it up.  Too much micromanagement in the kitchen doesn't make everybody feel like they're welcome.
34:42Even when we have guests, people say, can I help with anything? I'm like,  mm, yes, you can. Here, unpack this one. Cut this, cut that. Right. So I love, I love volunteer sous chefs. Yeah. Right.  Volunteer sous chefs. love that.  I'm never on time with everything. So it's, it's okay.  We're looking for a sous chef. So if either of you are interested.
35:03No, yeah, everybody be waiting for a meal for a long time waiting for music. Two hours later, you have an extra that you'd be making all the money on the wine and the  liquor at your restaurant with  me. They say people are drinking less, you know, and we've seen the ordering of mocktails just explode.  That's  fine. And people want the mocktails now.  And the beer.
35:29And even a wine, I told them that if they served me that wine, just don't tell me it's not alcoholic. Cause I'll just like not like it from the get go, but I wouldn't mind trying it. It's more of a sparkling wine that doesn't have alcohol in it.  we the no alcoholic beer or low alcohol beer. We've got one that's like 29 calories.  so Bob ordered, offered it to one of our guests and she said, that's beer flavored seltzer.
35:57Well, see, that's kind of the way I would be. I don't want to know if because I don't drink a lot but when I do, I want the real thing.  I  don't drink because the last time I drank, I thought I was being smart and I drank water in between each drink because I am prone to migraines and I really didn't want migraine the next day. guess what?
36:23freaking hangover of my life. haven't really had any drink in 10, 15 years now.  Oh, really?  have a solution for some of that. If you ever decide to go back. had friends over the years who, as they were going through the early stages of menopause, they said, yep, it was the sulfates that they found out that was causing the migraines. So  they discovered that you could drink champagne, which doesn't have the sulfates.
36:51So that's how they got around it and they didn't get the migraines.  if you decide to... I love champagne. I can't afford it. Oh,  go to Sam's Club or Costco. can  afford  it. Maybe you're better off just doing a mocktail. But the thing about mocktails is they contain a lot of sugar. I'm trying to stay away from that. So I just drink water with lemon in it or something like that on the days.  is hard when you own a restaurant not to drink.
37:18and not to drink the wine.  could come up with an excuse every day. Oh, I've had a terrible day. I need a glass of wine.  Oh, I've had a wonderful day. I need a glass of wine. It doesn't solve the problems or it doesn't make the day better.  But it tastes pretty  good. It does.  Anyway, that's the thing you grapple with now is,  you know, what's too much of something and what's,  whatever. Uh-huh.  Absolutely. All right, ladies, I try to keep this to half an hour. We're at 37 minutes. So I am going to cut you loose. Where can people find you?
37:49They can find us at podcast.familytreefoodandstories.  uh, or just podcast.familytreefoodandstories. And if you look for my family tree, food and stories in Amazon, we're there as well.  And you're on Facebook and Instagram. Is that right? are on Facebook and Instagram. found us on Instagram. Absolutely. Yes. All right.  Awesome. Great. Thank you.  As always, people can find me at atinyhomesteadpodcast.com.
38:15I hope you lovely ladies have a great rest of your week. And remember, every meal has a story and every story is a feast. Yay. All right. Thanks.
 

Raised Bed & Container Gardening with Mark

Today I'm talking with Mark at Raised Bed & Container Gardening with Mark. You can follow on Facebook as well.
 
 
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00:00You're listening to A Tiny Homestead, the podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. I'm your host, Mary Lewis. Today I'm talking to Mark at the Raised Bed and Container Gardening with Mark.  And Mark is in North Carolina. Good afternoon, Mark. How are you?  Good afternoon, Mary. It's good to be with you. It's good to have you. I love talking to people in North Carolina because you guys have the sweetest Southern drawl.
00:28Well, sometimes I, my kids tell me I talk pretty country sometimes. It's really sweet and it's very easy to understand. Sometimes the drawl is so thick that I'm like, excuse me, what did you say? So it's great when I get somebody who sounds like sweet tea and a rocking chair on a front porch. makes me very happy. You said the weather has been raining there. Yeah, we've had a good bit of rain. We've had.
00:56We had a really hot stretch during the summer and then some rains came in and it's kind of been cool for the last couple of weeks.  as my grandfather would say, we had a zizzly zazzly this morning.  It was, you could hear the rain just sizzling as it hit the ground.  yes.  I remember being a kid in Maine and we had a dirt road for a while and then they tarred it.
01:22The first time it rained after they tired it in like August, it was so hot. I could hear it steam. I could hear that noise you're talking about, but I never heard it called a Zizzle Zazzle before. That's great. So tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do. Well, I am a, I'm a newspaper editor is my day job. I'm a sportscaster, which is one of the things I do for fun. And I, I'm a gardener pretty much, I guess it's in, it's kind of in the blood and
01:52I particularly enjoy growing tomatoes. That's my big thing. My favorite food in the world is tomatoes. So a good tomato right off the vine is just the best thing in the world. So I stay really busy. Okay. How's your tomato season been? We had a really good season, but it came all at once and it was just...
02:20Within two weeks and everything was done. don't recall having a season like that in the last few years, but it just, everything produced. They all ripened almost at the same time. We had some  smaller like black cherry tomatoes that  they lasted a little bit longer, but when the rains hit, it kind of ruined them. whatever was left there, they were done.  Just got too much rain at one time.  you know, sometimes those little tomatoes will
02:50If they're near full grown, they'll pop open if you get too much rain. split. Yeah. Yeah. Our tomato season just really kicked in about two weeks ago and my husband planted over 250 tomato plants in the spring. So we are going to be swimming in tomatoes in a week. Oh yeah. That's awesome. Now what kind of tomatoes do you like to grow? He grows. Of course you asked me this and usually I can reel them off top of my head and now I'm like, what does he grow?
03:19He grows early girls. grows, he tries to get sweet one million cherry tomatoes, but I think he just got sweet 100s this year. And the San Marzano tomatoes. I love San Marzano's. I have trouble though. I don't ever get any size on them. I wind up with a lot of kind of maybe they'll grow in two and a half, three inches long.
03:48and be almost hollow inside. And I'm not really sure what's happening with mine on those. They taste great.  They cook up well, but there's just not a lot of it.  I'm not the gardener, but what I can tell you that I've observed with ours is that if it rains moderately and it's sunny reasonably,  it seems to help them have more flesh on the inside. Okay. Because they need the water, but they need the heat too.
04:16Yeah. The, uh, mean, San Marzano probably is my favorite tomato. It's such a good cooking tomato too, but it's got such a good taste because you just got all that flesh too. It's a, it's a good fleshy tomato. It makes something new. Go ahead. I'm sorry. It makes a killer sauce. Oh, it does. It does. Absolutely. Absolutely. I tried a new tomato this year. It was, I just out of curiosity. It's,
04:46It was an Amish paste tomato  and I bought the plants at the farmer's market and I paid a lot more than I wanted to for them, but I wanted to try them and they turned out really well. I'm saving seeds, so I'm hoping to have those next year, but  they were a big thick plum tomato  and it was about twice the size of  the San Marzano, but really, really thick.  we used to grow, or my
05:16My father-in-law would grow something, he called it a hot dog tomato. And it was longer than a San Marzano and just there, you know how you got a little bit of a globe at the bottom of the San Marzano, not a completely straight tomato. This hot dog tomato was just completely straight  and really fleshy. And I was hoping maybe that that Amish paste was, that's what it was going to turn out to be, but it  didn't. I  keep looking for that. And if I ever find that I'm going to grab some seeds because they
05:44They're really productive. They're really thick and a good tomato. They're very, I would say they're similar to the San Marzano, but they're a little bit bigger. We've grown the Amish paste ones. They're really good tomato. If you want to grow something like a San Marzano, but you can't get it. Yeah. So, okay. So your place is called Ray's Bed something. So tell me how that started. Well,
06:14I  started looking at, I've always wanted to write a book. So I  took this online class with thingspublishing.com. But one of the things that they suggested doing was starting a website to help you with  promoting your book. So I  have written a book called A to Z Beginner's Guide to Raise Bed and Container Gardening.
06:43And  so I, you know, the, the, uh, the Facebook page is basically, I use that to promote and I like to interact with people. And I'll be honest with you. I've learned as much from the  people I've come in contact with who's kind of in the gardening field as I ever would have thought. I mean, I see somebody called a naked gardener and I'm, I'm just out of curiosity. I started following that person and they have.
07:13All kinds of great and there's nothing naked about it. It's just, it's just nothing but tomatoes and cucumbers and you know, all good stuff like that. So I try to, I try to post. My goal is always to post maybe five times a week, just some, some little tidbit of information that I can get. I've not done a good job of that recently. We went on vacation, but I like to share things that I find out. And the other thing that I've found.
07:42is I learn as much by kind of doing the research as  I share.  I like to learn, I like to find out more information and that's  kind of what this has turned out to be. you know, got the book launched about a month ago. I'm still looking for people to review the book. So, and I've got some discount prices on Amazon right now. So the price is pretty low. If someone wants to go out and look at the Kindle and
08:11I'd love to get some honest  feedback and reviews on those.  Well, I'll have to add it to my reading list. Yeah, I appreciate that. yeah, I guess one  thing that I would tell you is my  mother used to do a lot of genealogy research. And the one thing that I thought was kind of funny, 95 % of all Plemons, that's my last name,
08:41our farmers  and  up until probably the 1960s or  1970s, it was almost a hundred percent farmers in our family. So  as I say, the  dirt and soil is kind of in my blood and that's kind of where we came from there.  I can remember growing up being out in the field  during the summertime, know, 5.30 in the morning, hoeing.
09:09hoeing corn or hoeing beans or hoeing tobacco or whatever on the farm.  you know, it starts getting, either the day we're already back at the house,  time for us kids to play. but,  so I guess the dirt's kind of in my blood. Yeah, absolutely. I saw your video of your unboxing of your, your, your paperback copies. How did that feel, Mark? It was, it was pretty awesome. I,  I had,
09:39I'd seen a proof copy of it prior to getting it, but you know, just to actually get it in your hand, you know, it's, kind of fun. It's not a big book. It's like 120 pages,  but it's the second book I've written.  wrote a short book about sports casting  back in December.  And it's really funny. Friends and family say, I want to, I want to autograph copies. So I've actually autographed a few copies.
10:07which is kind of  funny to me that someone would want my autograph.  yeah, like say, I've learned as much from writing the book  as,  you know, as I'm I'm giving out.  I've got a long list of references in the back of the book, which I would encourage people, particularly on individual  issues, if they would...
10:34If they have more depth to go and find out more because in them 120 pages in the amount of ground I tried to cover, you know, you just can't get into everything. uh, and the one thing that I've always known and I've from growing up on the farm is, you know, there, there are people who know more than what you know, and don't be afraid to lean on those people. Master gardeners in different areas.
11:04the Cooperative Extension Service.  I'm not sure if they call it that in Minnesota or wherever you may be, in North Carolina, every county has got a Cooperative Extension Service. And it runs through NC State University here. And so, you know, if you want new soil samples or if you need to, if you have questions about plants or you got something funny going on in your garden or, know, you can call up an agent there and they can kind of, you know, give you a good run now. Yeah, we have
11:34We  have Master Gardeners here and we have the Extension Services through the University of Minnesota. they  will help you contact somebody who can answer questions.  As a side note, son has a doctorate from University of Minnesota.  Oh.  He's got a, he did, I think it's,  he's a chemical engineer, research scientist. he got a...
12:02PhD in I think material science. you know which  city he went to college at? He was in Minneapolis. I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah, he was Minneapolis. We've been up there a few times. And in fact, I think he went back this summer to visit with some friends up there. But  we loved Minnesota when we were there. It's very, very pretty. Yeah. Well, we were there in summer times and
12:31Well, spring and summer, we weren't there during the wintertime. So we didn't  see the snow or anything. Yeah. We're particularly happy that fall is coming because our air conditioner died yesterday. Like it is dead dead. It needs to be replaced. So the humidity will get you up there too, doesn't it?  Oh yeah, absolutely. So we're going to, it's central air.  And so we're going to put in a small window air conditioner downstairs and that should handle it for the rest of the summer.
13:01Real thankful that didn't die back in July when we had six days of 95 degree plus weather and the humidity was tropical. That would have been really bad. It's miserable when that humidity gets high. We had some days here that the heat index was 110. I think the air temperature was 100, no, not 100, but it was 97, 98, something like that.
13:30Yeah, it's, there's been some real hot days this year.  I don't love it. I don't love summer. Never have.  I love the growing season, but I just wish that it wouldn't have to get so hot to get those great tomatoes. Yeah. Yeah. I know exactly. One of the things I learned when I did my book and  I probably should have known this, but it makes sense. We have a pretty long growing season here in North Carolina. Yeah. And one of the things I found in the research is.
14:00You could plant multiple plantings. probably, here could probably do two plantings of tomatoes. I haven't done that  this year.  I may try that next year, but things like squash, beans,  the cucumbers, things of that nature that have a little bit  quicker lifespan or harvest time. Yeah. You know, can, you can back one right after another. And the key on that typically  is.
14:30Just replenishing the soil and, know, and knowing when to let go of a plant that's just this kind of barely hanging on. I have a tendency to, particularly with my tomatoes,  I treat them like they're people, the plants, and I  kind of feel bad about cutting a limb off of one of them or  a branch or pulling them up.  But I figured, I've kind of figured this out. You pull them up when they're not productive.
15:00put something else in the ground and you can go from there. Yeah, it's like a working document. Anyone who's written a book like you have, you know that you start the document either in a notebook or in Word and you start writing it. It's a first draft and then you go back and read what you wrote and you're like, eh, that can get out and that can stay and I just need to improve this. It's the same thing with garden. Oh, absolutely. like I I'm
15:29My daughter gives me a hard time about this  because I want to let them go as long as I can. And  realistically, I'd be better off, pull them up, replenish the soil, get another plant in the ground and get something going.  realistically here, I've got a growing season until mid-October here. We're in the Piedmont. If I were up in the mountains, then of course we would have a
15:58maybe a couple weeks less on both ends of the growing season. But,  you know, realistically I could get two, two runs of tomatoes, cucumbers, beans, something like that. I could probably get two to three and peppers, depending upon what kind of peppers you've got, you can probably get three different harvests off those. could probably do two here in the north. we put our, we put our, it really depends on, you know,
16:25what ability you have to cover something up, how quickly you can get something started, or keep it going at the end. Yeah, our growing season is typically Mother's Day. That's when we tend to get our seedlings in. Through at worst, end of August, first of September. At best, we've gone into the end of October, twice. Oh yeah. Well here, it's...
16:56It's hot through September here. Yeah.  And by hot, mean, you know,  in  the 80s, October  cools off really, really pretty quick.  the, you know, the cold overnight temperatures  is what you have to watch out for if you've got still some, you know, crops in the field. But it's, you know, it's really neat that you get what you can do if  you you listen to people who know what they're talking about and
17:24Follow their instruction and don't be hard headed like I want to be sometimes. But yeah,  no one is ever a master gardener from the get go. Well, and you you're going to have ups and downs. Sometimes the weather doesn't treat you right. Sometimes, you know, the bugs don't treat you right.  There's a lot of things that can happen.
17:52Yeah, you just have to learn from it  and move on.  and it's the learning from it part that's hard because  I'm going to say something not so great. I'm going to get myself in trouble. My husband is hardheaded and he's the gardener and he's got to do something screwy like three times in a row before he remembers that he shouldn't do it that way the fourth time  in the garden. And so
18:18There have been years where we've had really successful gardens and there have been years where we have had really terrible gardens. And  I have started keeping notes in my head about what worked and what didn't. So that when he starts talking to me in January for the plans for the next year, I'm like, this happened when you did that last time. You want to do that again? And he goes, oh, I forgot. I won't do that. So  I try really hard to help. Your notebook's a great idea.  And when I researched my book,
18:49I had not been keeping notes. I'm a runner and I keep notes for my running, but I had not done anything with gardening or anything like that. And one of the things I kept seeing in my research was take notes,  just keep it kind of journal along with it and  you can kind of follow along and you really can pick up a lot that way. Yeah. And then you don't do things like put
19:16leaves and branches in your garden that have seeds from the tree still on them. And you end up with little trees in your garden, which is what happened to us one year. put, we have these sweet gums in our sweet gum trees in our yard and they're, they're just the devil. little, little, the little balls that come on, you step on them at a bare foot, you'll, you feel like, you know, you've got a knife stuck through your foot. I put those in the bottom and they will sprout sometimes.
19:46But most of the time I could just pull those out. not, it doesn't come up to, you know, it's not to the point where you can't really, you know, you can't really work around those.  it's just a thing, but I tried to, I tried so hard to explain to him, he didn't want to put ash tree  leaves and sticks in the garden for compost because they still had the seeds on them and ash trees grow really quick.
20:12And he was like, they'll be fine. They'll compost. And I was like, no, they won't. You're going to have baby trees in your garden. And he did it anyway. And we had like a hundred baby trees coming up in our garden. And I was just like, are we going to do this again? He said, no, we're not. said, good, let's not do this  again. We all learned differently, I think. Yeah, I think so.
20:40I do a good bit of composting and I think that's been one of the things that's helped my gardens more than anything is the composting. I  figured out, you you figure out there's certain things that you can't put in there because it'll just cause you problems. You got to be careful about things that,  we have raccoons here. So, raccoons want to get, they'll get in anything. They'll get in your trash can, they'll get into anything.
21:08You got to make sure that you don't have anything in the compost that a raccoon might like. And I learned that the hard way. And the first composting ever did, I kind of dug a little pit underneath a tree and I was just throwing everything in it and covering it up with black plastic. And it worked really well until the one day I was turning it with a fork and it was turning it.
21:36And there's a big black snake crawls out of there. I said, we're not going to compost on the ground anymore. But know, big five foot black snake came crawling out and he didn't like seeing me and I didn't like seeing him. And he slithered off down in the woods. Yeah, that's not a fun surprise. I keep waiting for my husband to come in the house with bee stings because we have great big compost vials.
22:03I keep expecting him to come in because sometimes he'll throw like apples out there. And bees and yellow jackets love apples. And so far  he's been safe, but I keep expecting every fall for him to come in after he throws some apples in the compost pile and be like, I got stung a hundred times. Okay, great.  So, and it hasn't happened, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did.
22:30I usually don't have too much apples left over because I love apples.  I'll throw a core or something in, but whole apples generally don't  make it But you're right about the yellow jackets. Yellow jackets are nasty.  Yeah, we put in like 20 apple trees here when we moved in.  And  we have only had two crops come in. This is second year we'll have apples to actually pick and eat in five years.
22:58And when we put the apple trees in, I was like, are we going to have yellow jackets all over the place? And my husband was like, I don't think so because there aren't any other orchards around. It's all cornfield and soybean fields. He said, and yellow jackets don't really love. Jesus can't think. Cornfields  and alfalfa fields, they don't care. There's nothing there for them. And I was like, okay. And we haven't had any, any bad bugs here  ever in five years.
23:28So that's good. So I'm real happy to have apple trees for the first time in our life. That's been wonderful. We have three honey gold variety apple trees that are producing right now. We'll be picking them  in a month or so because they're ready to be picked in at the end of September 1st of October. So that's going to be awesome. Make some apple crisp. Well, you know,  what is there some the University of Minnesota actually
23:55developed, I think it's honey crisp. Yes. That was actually a product of University of Minnesota Agriculture Department.  Uh-huh. We have two trees, but they haven't actually produced anything yet because they're babies. Well, when they come in, you'll have something really good because that's a really, really good tomato, or really good, I started saying tomato, really good apple. Yeah, we've tried them and they're very sweet.
24:23They're very sweet and they get really big too. Yeah. We bought a variety called a wolf river apple and those get, I have big hands for a girl. My palm is probably a good four and a half inches across. I can't even get my fingers all the way around these wolf river apples. They're humongous and they take a while to get established. Well, I live in the middle of it.
24:51I live in the middle of town and we've got a guy down the street that's got, he planted a little small orchard in his backyard. I mean, he has maybe four tenths of an acre and he's got his apple trees are hanging full with fruit right now. And they're almost to the point of breaking the tree down. Yep. Apple trees are fantastic. It just takes forever for them to get established. I think he's on year.
25:20three, maybe year four  on those trees.  takes a while, but once they get going there, they do great. Yeah. So Mark, I try to keep these to half an hour. We're at almost 28 minutes. Where can people find you? I'm on, like I say, I'm on Facebook with the raised bed and container gardening with Mark.  You can find me on,  I'm on  Twitter at Mark Clemens.
25:49Let's see, my book is on Amazon. So it's A  to Z guide to raised bed and container gardening.  if you Google my name, you're bound to find me. I'm out there. Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. I really love talking tomatoes with somebody who loves tomatoes. That was fun. That's my favorite food in the world. All right. As usual, people can find me at AtinyHolmsteadPodcast.com.
26:17Mark, I hope you have a fantastic day. Thank you again. Thanks, Maris. Good to be with you. Bye.